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Moblin 2.0 Released, Intel's Linux For Netbooks
Posted by
Soulskill
on Wed May 20, 2009 11:25 AM
from the new-and-shiny dept.
from the new-and-shiny dept.
eldavojohn writes "Yesterday, Moblin, the joint OS project between Novell and Intel, was released as V2.0 Beta for netbooks with the image available for download. We've talked about Moblin before, but Computer World has an article speculating this is Intel's direct affront to Microsoft's Windows 7 by pointing out that Moblin is designed to optimally use Intel's Atom Processor and smaller screens so popular with netbooks. Windows 7's netbook competition doesn't stop there, as GoodOS's gOS3 Gadgets and Canonical's Ubuntu Netbook Remix are being designed to also take advantage of Intel's Atom, especially from a UI perspective. Ars has a look at Moblin's rich new UI as well. Back in April, Intel said it would support Windows 7 on the Atom later this year, and Intel also says Windows 7 is a good choice for Intel's netbooks, so it doesn't look like they're intentionally burning any bridges between them and Redmond."
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Novell and Intel Team Up For Moblin On Netbooks 29 comments
ruphus13 writes "The Mobile and Netbook space already has several Open Source OS providers. Android has been making its way into netbooks, and Moblin, LiMo and Ubuntu are also alternatives for OSes on netbooks and mobile handhelds. Now, Novell has also joined the fray, but rather than porting openSuSE, they have teamed up with Intel to get OEMs to use Moblin for their mobile devices. From the article: 'With the other tools and benefits that Moblin offers OEMs and developers, it's really a rather smart approach that could potentially yield a better netbook experience (for developers and consumers), maximize development resources, and produce quality software in minimal time. I don't think Novell is eschewing SUSE, but in its current form, it's not as suited for netbooks as it is systems like the HP ProBooks. Paired with Moblin's netbook-centric bent and coming from a desktop/server market (rather than a true mobile device background), bringing a SUSE/Moblin system to netbooks has as much potential (if not more) for success as an Android adaptation does.'"
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Meh. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, I'm waiting for Like-Like on my two-wheel transportation device.
I'm just worried it'll eat my shield.
My preecioooous! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait, Moblin, not Goblin.
Carry on.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
"A goblin is an imaginary evil, crabby, and mischievous creature described as a grotesquely disfigured or gnome-like phantom, that may range in height from that of a dwarf to that of a human. "
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Re:My preecioooous! (Score:5, Funny)
"...an imaginary evil, crabby, and mischievous creature described as a grotesquely disfigured or gnome-like phantom..."
What is it with you KDE fanbois and your personal attacks? We likes our desktop clean, simple, and brown.
We also likes fisshesss, yes we does.
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Re: (Score:2)
Haha, then use KDE and paint your monitor brown.
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Duh. (Score:3, Insightful)
that Moblin is designed to optimally use Intel's Atom Processor and smaller screens so popular with netbooks.
I for one, welcome our new optimized-for-the-fucking-device-they-sell-it-with overlords.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I my self have learned to tell if I am using a quality OS by whether it installs a video editor (whether you want it or not) and has a dedicated system process watch over it and put it back in case you delete it.
Some Linux OS's come with video editors, but unfortunately an admin can still uninstall it. I say Linux has a way to go before being ready for the general user. ;)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
winXP resists being slimmed down
Meanwhile, there's GeeXboX [geexbox.org], a whopping 20 Mb livecd, fully functional as a media center.
Another typical Slashdot microsoft bash. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a summary that describes the new Moblin release (what the post is ostensibly about), rather than focusing on the competition against Win7? How about being FOR something (Moblin in this case), rather than always being against Microsoft?
I'm no fan of Microsoft, but seriously, the one-note, constant Microsoft bashing on this site is getting old.
Re:Another typical Slashdot microsoft bash. (Score:5, Informative)
Yep. I didn't upvote this in the FireHose because it seemed to be just a collection of "Intel makes something".
Ars Technica [arstechnica.com] has a descriptive hands-on preview. Much more useful.
Parent
cooperation between Intel and linux?!? (Score:5, Informative)
So, it's more than just that Intel is releasing this. It's Intel, working with the Linux Foundation in an attempt to create a new standard. Isn't this pretty much the ideal case for we've been asking for in open source? A propietary hardware manufacturer working with an open source consortium to create and release open source software. I'll view this collaboration as successful if we start seeing netbooks for sale from major OEMs with this OS installed.
Oh, and some other random stuff I saw that I liked:
-standard X11 window server and can run most linux apps
-the clutter organizational scheme looks intriguing but I'd have to use it for awhile before I could tell you if I liked it or not.
-It's using the gecko HTML rendering engine. What's interesting here is it is not using webkit.
-Lastly, I'd like to see something on how well the wireless network device works and changing networks. The article was a bit short on this aspect. Has anybody used it? How is it?
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Re:cooperation between Intel and linux?!? (Score:4, Interesting)
I used the alpha. I am about to install it to my netbook's hard drive; hopefully it provides a way to upgrade. I would presume the answer is yes, but it's pretty rough.
I kind of like XFCE, though. I hope this UI can be disabled easily. The second important note is whether (since this is Fedora-based) the Fedora repos can be enabled without making the computer do bad crashy things.
The other point that the summary neglected to mention is that this project is the first real implementation of Arjan Van De Ven's work on fast booting. He's the guy that made his Eee boot in five seconds. [lwn.net] Moblin can be expected to boot fast, which I think is necessary if we're going to recategorize netbooks from 'underpowered miniature laptop' to 'powerful internet appliance'.
A friend of mine bought a macbook a few months ago because she needed a computer that was extremely simple and user-friendly. Macs are somewhat better in that regard than PCs, but the computer is still pretty incomprehensible to her. This new UI is probably not for the slashdot crowd (anyone who can tell you why it's important that Moblin has a (relatively) standard Xorg server is not really the intended audience), but I think for the common Joe or Jocelyn it's perfect. Especially if you were ever wanting to make a $100 netbook...if the price point is sufficiently low to the point where it's clear you're not buying a Real Computer, and stick this UI on it, you can both set new expectations for what the device is supposed to do and sell a lot of toys to people that don't really have any use for a Real Computer.
Random points:
Webcam support is essential.
The social networking pane needs to be Facebook, not Twitter.
um, End of Line?
Parent
As the Unedited Submitter ... (Score:5, Informative)
How about a summary that describes the new Moblin release (what the post is ostensibly about), rather than focusing on the competition against Win7? How about being FOR something (Moblin in this case), rather than always being against Microsoft?
I'm no fan of Microsoft, but seriously, the one-note, constant Microsoft bashing on this site is getting old.
Well, it's edited pretty much how it's submitted so I'll take full responsibility for this one.
... we really do need to shake that image at least a little bit to be taken seriously.
I guess I'm confused though. I didn't seem to think my summary was pro or anti Microsoft--merely focusing on what else is out there besides Windows 7 for netbooks and pointing out that Intel may have an unfair advantage in this department. If anything, I was hoping for discourse containing thoughtful comments about Intel's upper hand in pointing Novell in the correct direction for optimally using the chips/chipset/gpu in these hardware devices surrounding the Atom process.
When I looked for other stories to reference this one to [google.com], I found 10 or more talking about Windows 7 on the netbook and one talking about Moblin (the on linked in the story). I'm sorry for not continuing the trend of talking about Windows 7 and am disappointed you think my submission was a veiled attempt to attack Microsoft. I am anti-Microsoft but I try to keep that relegated to my posts down here instead of in the summary.
Specifically what did I write that was offensive to you? I also found the title of the Computerworld article to be speculation but the actual text to have level headed statements from Intel (something I tried to reflect in the summary). I guess I failed and I apologize for making Slashdot seem so biased
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I see it less as antagonistic, and more of "Why even mention Microsoft at all?" The summary comes across as an analysis of Moblin as compared to Windows 7 (and a larger overview of how Windows 7 fits in to the future of netbook OSes) instead of just saying,
"Hey, look, Intel released a new OS for netbooks. Take a look."
Which would've been much more to the point.
Re: (Score:2)
You must be new here... it's been old for years.
Not even that I'm a fan, but it does get old. If BillG cured cancer tomorrow they'd say he started it.
But really, competition is what this is all about - and Windows 7 is looking pretty decent. Linux needs to compete with that next, why not start getting ahead of it before release time comes around?
Re:Another typical Slashdot microsoft ksh. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a summary that describes the new Moblin release (what the post is ostensibly about), rather than focusing on the competition against Win7? How about being FOR something (Moblin in this case), rather than always being against Microsoft?
I'm no fan of Microsoft, but seriously, the one-note, constant Microsoft bashing on this site is getting old.
OK, what "Microsoft bashing"?
These products (Moblin, Windows 7, etc.) are in competition with one another in the netbook market. If Moblin achieves some level of success in the netbook market, that reduces the number of netbooks sold with Windows 7. So, the summary states (quite correctly) that this system is a threat to Windows in the netbook market. Any well-packaged system optimized for the platform would be. It's just a fact.
Parent
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It's a result of the fact that that is where it is focused and the fact that we want to see competition everywhere.
I hate Linux as much as the next guy (not really) (Score:3, Funny)
"It's easy to spot MS shills."
Of course there are no Linux shills because everyone else here is totally objective and has no particular interest in promoting Linux.
Re:I hate Linux as much as the next guy (not reall (Score:4, Funny)
Shills are paid. Linux is free and also free!
The word you're looking for is "zealots".
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Re: (Score:2)
I was going to point that out but you caught it. These are guys that feel jilted by something and they will fight to the death to protect Microsoft, for whatever reason.
Very promising (Score:5, Interesting)
I looked at the screenshots, and this looks really cool. They've put a lot of thought into the GUI, which is not only designed for netbooks and small screens, but touch screens as well.
Moblin is also totally open source, meaning that they won't charge for it and they'll get contributions from the larger open source community.
Unless Microsoft has some secret feature in Windows 7 designed for netbooks that nobody's heard of, then Linux could reclaim the lead in netbook OS's. If somebody ports Moblin to ARM, then Microsoft is in even bigger trouble.
Re:Very promising (Score:4, Interesting)
It's clear they did put a lot of effort in designing the UI. We've got a couple netbooks around the office and I'm tempted to try it out. But from another review, the reviewer noted that it's not packaged with binary drivers. So if you are stuck with certain Wifi cards it may suffer the same pain in the ass that linux generally does: having to track down a damned driver.
That being said, using it with a netbook preloaded with Mobilin where all the hardware is designed to work with linux from the get go....it's worth considering.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Currently it's worth avoiding netbooks that have the following hardware:
1. Intel GMA500 aka Poulsbo graphics chipsets. There is no FOSS driver for these. That's because there's a PowerVR core in them. The Fedora Project's Adam Williamson seems [fedoraproject.org] to have found some partial drivers hidden away in a quiet little Ubuntu repository where they were dumped by the Intel team. But success seems partial. So for now avoid anything with GMA500.
2. Broadcom wireless. Again avo
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
FOSS drivers are only available for GMA945, GMA950 chipsets in current notebooks. Anything with the GMA500 may or may not work with some hard-to-get-ahold-of proprietary blobs. See my post abopve. It sucks. Intel have made a good name for themselves in the past with Freeing their drivers but this GMA500 thing is muddying the market and causing uncertainty. In the past I would have felt happy that choosing Intel was going to mean FOSS drivers but now I'd think twice before recommending them or purchasin
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
as for arm? don't count your chickens just yet. linux had a wide base of netbooks in the beginning and it faltered. was the fault that of the netbooks that are still being sold now with winxp or of linux? use a little brain power here and you'll come to a conclusion.
Linux still holds a greater share of the netbook market than it does the traditional desktop market. The fact that even after Windows was available on these netbooks they couldn't secure the same market share tells me that people find Linux more suitable on netbooks than they do on desktops, or windows less so (or both).
my prediction is that arm comes out gang busters and dies quickly into a niche market grave. how many technologies have you've seen with this kind of traction that end up going no where due to lack of software support?
ARM will be a niche market as long as Linux is a niche market. However, if Linux becomes a significant player in netbooks, then so can ARM, because all the same software support will exist
How, exactly (Score:2)
Do you "take advantage of Intel's Atom ... from a UI perspective"? (and don't confuse "User Interface" with display technology)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The same way 'NetBurst' was to make your Internet surfing faster....
I still remember when Dilbert was 'Optimized for Intel', basically added a useless java app to slow the page for anyone on a slower CPU. I lost some respect for Adams on that one, though i'm not sure how much he was consulted.
Re:How, exactly (Score:5, Interesting)
Bypass all of the useless Web 2.0 Flash/Java/AJAX pushed by their marketing department:
www.dilbert.com/fast/
Seriously, if there's one website that should know better than to listen to their marketing department, it's Dilbert.com
Parent
Download speed (Score:3, Informative)
Or shall I say download slowness:
2.8 of 666 MB (3.8 KB/sec) 2 days, 1 hour remaining.
Not to mention that they mention a VMWare image on a page, link to the download page and no VMWare image can be found there.
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No kidding - and I can't find any mirrors either.
Re: (Score:2)
About 40 minutes later: 2.8 of 666 MB (0.8 KB/sec) 9 days, 11 hours remaining.
Seriously, that's what torrents are for.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You sure you want to download that?
Re:Download speed (Score:5, Informative)
But there are torrents... [google.com]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
And they have a plan.
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks.
What does the processor... (Score:2, Insightful)
The Year (Score:2)
One reason why Linux isn't taking off: (Score:2)
Back in April, Intel said it would support Windows 7 on the Atom later this year, and Intel also says Windows 7 is a good choice for Intel's netbooks, so it doesn't look like they're intentionally burning any bridges between them and Redmond."
Unfortunately, nobody ever sold a new idea by sitting on the fence. Until a computer manufacturer starts pro-actively pushing Linux on their hardware as (rightly or wrongly) better than Windows, Linux will not take off.
As long as the line is "do you want Windows or Linux on that, Sir", and the seller gets paid whichever way, Windows will be the easiest sell to the typical punter and before you know it it will be "Linux? Oh, there's not much demand for that, we'd have to do a special order". That's basic
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The Linux world is fractured, meaning that a single binary will only work on a small fraction of all Linux distros.
But with Linux, the distro usually comes with comes with all the applications you can eat, either on disc or in the online repositories. This is the preferred way for non-techies to get their apps (whereas no true slashdotter would install a binary package when they could roll their own tarball instead).
Punters need to be told this, not "oh, er, well we do Windows as well if you like".
Because most of the popular applications are Free, the application publisher doesn't have to support every distro and ar
lpia = x86 basically (Score:2)
Since x86 code runs on lpia, what is there to claim that they "support" ?
netbook opportunity squandered (Score:4, Informative)
When the eee PC came out, Linux had a big opportunity. Unfortunately, Asus completely blew the details of the implementation. They picked a sucky distro, and they did a lousy job on quality control and integration. My wife uses linux on the desktop, and when she saw the eee at Target for $280 she asked me to get her one for her birthday. The model they were selling at Target was out of date and not very good, so I ordered a fancier model on amazon for $400. It came with its wifi misconfigured, and Asus tech support told me they couldn't fix it, and I'd have to return it. This was a few months ago. Yesterday I was making a trip to Fry's, so my wife suggested I just buy one while I was there. Well, Fry's is now selling the eee only with Windows, and Amazon's site also doesn't have the linux version available. AFAICT retailers were just getting too many returns of the linux ones. You can pretty much tell what was going on based on the amazon reviews. Some, like mine, were being shipped misconfigured. In other cases, you had people buying the linux version and not understanding that it wasn't windows. And in still other cases, people were buying them with linux and then trying to install a (presumably illegal) copy of Windows, and failing. (None of this is new, either. All this stuff happened in the past with the Great Quality linux boxes they used to sell at Fry's. The hardware was in fact great quality, but Fry's was getting too many returns, so they stopped carrying them.)
I think the basic problem here is that it's expensive and difficult to do a good job integrating hardware and software for a consumer computer. That's the kind of thing Apple is famous for doing well. Apple puts a lot of money and effort into it, and they charge for it when you buy a mac. I just don't see how anyone is going to do anything like that in the netbook market, which is an ultra-low-margin market. It would have been especially difficult for East Asian manufacturers like Asus and Great Quality, which have a language barrier to deal with. (At one point, Great Quality was shipping their machines with a linux distro that didn't even have an English-language web site.)
Meanwhile, MS can afford to do what it takes to maintain dominance in all sectors of the market. MS doesn't even have to do a good job on netbooks. They just have to avoid doing such a horrible job that it becomes painfully obvious to people who have never used anything but Windows before. It's possible that ARM-based netbooks will change the equation, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS jumps in and starts competing vigorously on ARM, simply to maintain their monopoly.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
When the eee PC came out, Linux had a big opportunity.
I think the original EEE PC must be the most successful failure ever. People bought them by the shedload (including me) and raved about them, until it became obvious that they were as much practical use as a chocolate teapot. A very, very cute chocolate teapot maybe, and one that hadn't cost enough to get angry about, but not really a lot of use.
The problem wasn't necessarily Linux - its the hardware: the screen was just too small for running desktop software or full-size websites (iPod Touch/iPhone and An
I smell something big brewing....... (Score:3, Insightful)
competive netbook OSs? (Score:3, Interesting)
IMO, Intel's efforts would be better spent building drivers for Open Source distros so that more netbooks will run straight out of the box with Open Source installed, and pushing vendors to install conventional desktop UIs rather than "netbook UIs".
Smartphones don't have that problem because people don't have fixed expectations as to what a smartphone desktop ought to look like, it just has to be easy to use and mildly extensible.
That said, I'm running Kubuntu Jaunty 'right out of the box' on my Eee PC900 (and yes, that's a 900MHz computer with the original 1G DRAM) . . . without concern about my warranty because it lives on an SDHC flash card sitting in the internal card reader. Looks great, works well, and it's a standard KDE4.2.2 desktop.
Find out how here [informit.com]. Just Part 1, the tweaks needed for Ubuntu-Intrepid described in Part II are not needed with the new Kubuntu. If you don't have an Eee PC900, make sure Kubuntu-Jaunty has the drivers required to support your netbook or you know where to get them first. Google is your friend.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you installed the wrong one. Netbook Remix is almost the exact opposite of a fancy UI, instead opting for a few large application icons and easy navigation.
Re:Background (Score:4, Funny)
I thought that was Windows 7.
When I hit Ctr-Alt-Del his eyes just flash.
Parent