Slashdot Log In
Linux Gaining Strength In Downturn
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Mon Mar 16, 2009 07:51 AM
from the monday-morning-slow-ball dept.
from the monday-morning-slow-ball dept.
gubm writes "A February survey of IT managers by IDC indicated that hard times are accelerating the adoption of Linux. The open source operating system will emerge from the recession in a stronger data center position than before, concluded an IDC white paper."
Related Stories
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:4, Insightful)
Worse than that I think, is the fact that it seems people are looking at this like F/OSS is a commercial competitor to Sun and Windows et al. What it really means if Linux ends up with a better position in the data center is that Windows or Sun is losing out. Sure, there will be a few people (Redhat et al) who make money from this turn of events, but it's those who will not that should be more important.
I know that it's cool to say 'hey, Linux is making headway' but it's also true to say that someone else is losing out. One thing is reasonably certain in these times: There are very few companies expanding their IT departments and data centers. It Linux is winning, who is losing? That's the real story because unless Linux totally messes up, they won't get that market share back anytime soon. Say goodbye to the MS business plan. That's what we're really talking about, the slow death of Windows in the data center. Perhaps we should bring in the life support systems now?
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
Quote: "the slow death of Windows in the data center."
And that would be a bad thing because.... why?
Keep in mind that, besides Linux being a higher quality product--especially for the data center-- money not spent to prop up the MS business plan is money that stays with the local business/local economy to be spent elsewhere.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Funny)
And that would be a bad thing because.... why?
It's not. It's just Balmer posted on Slashdot again...
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:4, Interesting)
If my corporation buys services from global player say HP for instance and this in turn gives away whatever flavour linux they currently support then how this is going to cause money staying locally? I mean HP service desks are all over the place and their HQ is thousands KMs away so the money is flowing around or away but not staying?
Whether windows actually dies is another matter. I think this will not happen or not very soon anyway. All predictions about fast adoption of linux because of it being cheaper have not come true partially because corporate service boys charged a healthy premiums on their linux 'loving' customers. I had problems with that myself too - I had to justify to my box why I wanted to use more expensive product and it was linux that was more expensive than vista installation. The price tags have been set by our IT service support company. If I could install linux box myself of course this would be cheaper but than again maybe against corporate policy too.
OC when it comes to small business that is able to make decision and switch within days of making it then this OS switch actually may happen. Alas not everywhere and for everybody.
which is good - we need no mono-culture.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Interesting)
All predictions about fast adoption of linux because of it being cheaper have not come true partially because corporate service boys charged a healthy premiums on their linux 'loving' customers.
Oh, I dunno about that. A few months ago, I ordered the hardware for a new "desktop" system from a local computer assembler, and since I ordered it without the default Vista OS, I got a discount of a few hundred $$$. While talking about it with a rep over the phone just before delivery, he asked what I intended to install on it. I said "The latest Ubuntu release", and he said "We can install that for you, for no extra charge." I said "Huh?", and he said "Yeah; we've found that Ubuntu always installs quickly, with no problems at all. Give us an hour, and we can have it all set up for your." I told him "OK", and I got it with Ubuntu running just fine.
(Well, OK, there was a problem: They forgot to tell me the password that it wanted when I booted it. They were very apologetic about that. They were even more apologetic when I told them that, since they were closed when I got it home, I'd booted a handy knoppix briefly to mount the root partition and set the root password to something I knew. ;-)
I do sorta suspect that they wanted to do it as a training exercise for their installer guys, as a response to a good number of customers wanting that system installed. But no matter; the fact is that a local system builder took the attitude that "The customer is always right", and wanted their people to be able to install whatever the customer wanted.
Anyway, this one company didn't charge a healthy premium on a linux-loving customer. They said "We can do that for you for no extra charge." And, needless to say, I told a number of other local friends about it, probably resulting in a few more sales.
YMMV, of course.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Many of us have firsthand experience that backs this up. Now whether
or not we can go into gory details without being sued for violating
some sort of NDA is another matter.
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Interesting)
I strongly disagree. The high cost and abysmal quality of IT services put a wet blanket on innovation and creativity. Without open source software, the cost of starting up an IT company would be significantly higher; without open source Google, Slashdot, reddit, digg and a thousand other companies would likely not have existed.
I'm excited to see what cool innovations people will come up with if IT costs are further reduced to nearly nothing.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
The history of economics is continually increasing productivity. Economies abhor what I call 'drag' - unnecessary costs for the same or similiar benefits. Successful companies reduce drag. If, over time, Linux = Windows - licesing costs; to put it bluntly, Linux will win. The customers of the companies win with lower costs. And MSFT joins the buggy whip manufacturers (which I assume they won't, plenty of other software to make other than OSes).
To argue that propping up Windows (or anything artificially, considering the bailouts) for its own sake is like arguing you create jobs by hiring 100 people to digg ditches and another 100 to filling them. Sure, you're not advancing humanity one iota, and placing a burden on society as a whole, but that busy work sure is keeping a lot of people employed! (People that would otherwise eventually get jobs in still economically productive sectors). BTW, government does this a lot in "job creation", they are called toll booths.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
I was with you until this:
(People that would otherwise eventually get jobs in still economically productive sectors)
That is simply not an acceptable assumption any longer (and it never really was). Where are these magical jobs coming from?
They DO NOT EXIST. Just because YOU and I have food on our tables and a roof over our heads does not mean that everyone else could have the same, if only they would work hard. The trickle-down economics theory is bust because wealth is often HOARDED instead of spent, and even the money that IS spent spends the majority of its time in a corporate cycle of purchasing massively over-priced business services/equipment in order to sell massively over-priced services/equipment to other businesses. Only at the bottom of the funnel (you know, the narrow part) do you get businesses spending money on consumer products in order to make money from the masses. To clarify what I mean, picture the money that is transfered between large business accounts each day compared to how much is spent on payroll. The vast majority of wealth is circulated (and stays) far above the populous' heads. Successful advances in business tech/procedures almost universally involve tipping that balance even further, paying an employee less money (or fewer employees the same amount of money) for the same amount of wealth earned for the company.
The problem of joblessness cannot be left to the market to fix, there must be active solutions toward that goal. Unfortunately I don't have any really good ideas on how that could be tackled efficiently, the only idea I -DO- have pertaining to the subject would be radical and near impossible to implement so I won't even bother to toss it in to the discussion. Regardless, I feel that it is folly to rely on a wealth-concentrating system to widen wealth distribution (which is what happens when people become employed, even if the term has been branded as Satanic by the media).
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh, it -sounds- like you're saying that the economic policies of the 80's did NOT produce the prosperity of the 90's and 00's, but that -can't- be, because we know that's what did it. "Trickle down" economics causes the pie to be larger. Sure, the people who create the wealth keep large portions of it, but since they have more of it to spread around, they do. Complaining that it's a small slice of -their- pie is just jealous whining.
The policies that are going into effect these days are not going to grow th
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Except that is a complete myth.
The pie increased in size by 5 or 6 times.
The wealthy took 350 times as much pie as they took previously.
The total amount of pie for 95% of the people in the country declined (and has declined both in wealth and income since 1978).
One person used to be able to support 3 to 4 people in a household. Now two people barely keep a household going.
Executives used to make 10 to 20 times as much as line workers. Now executives take 400 times as much, lay of 6,000 people, and suppres
Re:The best things in life... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, the idea that I withheld is similar to that, but implementing an offset to the costs to industry.
Basically, (remember, I KNOW this is nearly impossible to implement) my idea is to automate every job possible. Fire every single person you can. Now, here's the key, instead of giving everyone unemployment checks, you make "student" a paying job (and "teacher" a WELL paying job). Yep, start sending those university checks in the other direction. You'd still have a massive tax burden for industry, but they would be getting a pay-off in access to the largest and most talented pool of prospective employees ever imagined. Hell, we could even build more universities than prisons then.
There are flaws, and the changes required are nigh impossible due to our societal momentum, but it would be nice. Not as nice as unicorns that shoot laserbeams out of their horns, but hey, I prefer slightly more realistic fantasies. :-)
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Informative)
Say goodbye to the MS business plan. That's what we're really talking about, the slow death of Windows in the data center.
Nonsense. Even Ballmer agrees that Linux has always been the undisputed leader in the data center. The downturn will only increase the dominance of Linux.
"Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux," he said. "How are we doing? Forty is less than 60, so I don't like it. ... We have some work to do."
from here:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/151568/ballmer_still_searching_for_an_answer_to_google.html [pcworld.com]
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
You say that as if it's a bad thing. Microsoft's predatory behavior has set the entire industry back by a decade or more. Without them, there is plenty of room for new innovation (as opposed to Microsoft Innovation (tm) which isn't really innovation at all). Companies will spring up to fill market needs, robust competition will be restored or invigorated, people will be employed ... it's a good thing for everyone.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Those Windows guys will quickly learn Linux, they are without a job anyway, and when the economy recovers they can start administrating Linux servers. Its like evolution, but in the digital world. Those who adapt survive.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
PostgreSQL can handle Petabytes without any problems. And it is much faster than MS-SQL and much simpler to set up and administer, besides.
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you never used anything other than MYSQL?
Postgres is open source and perfectly capable...
Oracle is considerably more powerful than MSSQL, and Linux is Oracle's preferred platform these days... Linux can also run on considerably more powerful hardware than windows can (mainframes, supercomputers etc) which is important if you have a huge database.
Oracle for linux outperforms the windows version by a considerable margin by all accounts too.
And yes, Oracle isn't free but you'd just be paying for the DB and getting the OS for free.
I believe Google use MYSQL too, so it must be pretty capable if used correctly.
When it comes to databases windows is a pretty poor choice, as is mssql since it's not even cross platform and therefore tied to windows.
If you want to complain about something Linux doesn't do very well, try gaming.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:4, Insightful)
How so? While I agree that Oracle isn't a database - it's a career - one can at least download a free (licensed) operational version that runs under something other than Windows, allowing a developer to, well, develop to a system that will then potentially be deployed on FOSS.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If Linux does see more widespread adoption, more software developers will support it with proprietary software that is only on Windows/Mac/both now. Sure, we'll lose some of the advantages of FOSS, but Linux will be more usable. More adoption, whatever the reason, wil
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Admin work is already farmed out to third world countries and using closed source software won't slow
down that process...
Companies already hire extremely cheap low skilled workers, and this has more to do with the microsoft "so easy you don't need expensive trained staff to run it" marketing... The problem is that you can get away with cheap unskilled staff to get a windows network limping along, but it won't work very well and won't be very secure. But this is all part of MS's marketing strategy because th
Re:The best things in life... (Score:4, Insightful)
Racist? Probably not. Classist? Maybe. Nationalist? Probably.
Please be careful when slinging around derisive terms meant to correct derogatory behavior. Applying them too liberally reduces their meaning to nothing more than a meme.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Interesting)
Their "build system" required you to log in as root or it wouldn't build. To my complete lack of surprise there were flaws in the script that hosed the build machine when run, since the process was running as root. Luckily I was smart enough to run it in a VM, since their is no way I'm building anything as root on my machine. Had I not known any better my system would be messed up, and I would have no idea why.
The new question to determine if someone is really skilled with computers will not be "do you use Windows or Linux" (or some other secure OS). The litmus test which served me so well is rapidly becoming invalid. It used to be Windows + Education + a_clue = Linux. The new formula will be Linux + Education + a_clue = Real Linux Guy. Basically, the Linux Guy wannabee pool is in the process of growing exponentially.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Which (for me) begs the question: How *does* one really become proficient in Linux?
I can install $Distribution on a spare machine and tinker with basic this and that. Beyond that, what else?
I am at a loss with a cohesive direction. There are places (locally) where I can take classes on Linux from beginner to "advanced". However, none of the Linux users I know ever took a class; they just seem to "know".
I'm probably over-simplifying, but I really want to dive into it and really understand it -- but I'm at
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I guess I'm one of those guys who you would assume "just knows," but really I often don't. I've been using Linux for seven years, doing it for a living for three, and I'd still put myself in the wide pool labeled "intermediate." But FWIW, here's the "secrets" I know. Prepare to not have your mind blown.
It's more about problem-solving skills than rote knowledge. If you ignore everything else I say, remember this one, it's the key to the whole thing.
There are books, and some of them are good (I really recomme
Re:The best things in life... (Score:5, Interesting)
The average user, the average sysadmin and the average developer won't fundamentally change. No matter how they told you in grade school that you can become anything you put your mind do, there's people who can't grok a computer if they'd get Bill's fortune as the prize. Some, for some incomprehensible reason even choose to become sysadmins.
The only real options are that Linux will adapt to gain wide adoption or it will not have wide adoption. It should be in the cards that if you talk to people that want shiny buttons about the freedom to hack the code and compile your own kernel, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Why should you be complaining anyway? If 90% became point-and-click Linux admins, who'd he the gurus they'd have to go to when those tools fail them? That's right, you. No longer would you be the sysadmin of some obscure server OS, you'd be the grossly overpaid technical specialist hired it to fix the hard stuff. Oh, what a horrible tradgedy.
Parent
Re:The best things in life... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's possible for a bad admin to make any system insecure, regardless of the operating system. The wizards in Windows don't make it more or less insecure, its the OS and the admins doing that.
Wizards merely encourage laziness and do not force the admin to have a clear understanding of what it is they're doing. More widespread adoption simply widens the field for admins who really know what they're doing.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd rather see Linux (or BSD) adoption on a wide scale due to the benefits of the systems, not because they are free.
Of course we'd all like a "pure revolution," where the proITariat suddenly recognize the superiority and freedom available to them and throw off their proprietary shackles.
Realistically, however, how are the adopters going to know the 'benefits of the systems' if they are never exposed to them, never try them in a production environment? Years of partnering with the established regime, familiarity with the systems, the trained acceptance of quirks and flaws as the inevitable price of computing, managers an
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, there are a lot of people who completely dismiss open source as being "freeware", relating it to the closed source freeware apps you can download for windows, many of which are buggy and unmaintained...
Some people buy right into the marketing and won't buy anything unless it's come top of a "best of breed" list, meaning the manufacturer has paid a lot of money to have it there...
But what these people do buy, are commercial products which are actually open source under the hood, because some company has
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps we can pitch it better.
Management: "How much does it cost?"
IT: "Red Hat gives it away for free and sells support contracts for $x, but we are not required to purchase support in order to use it.
Linux on the desktop 2009 ! (Score:4, Funny)
The year of linux on the desktop is finally here!
Re:Linux on the desktop 2009 ! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Linux on the desktop 2009 ! (Score:5, Funny)
3D Realms just announced Duke Nukem Forever was to be released in the Year of the Linux Desktop.
Parent
Funny... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not a great survey (Score:5, Interesting)
A survey of 330 IT Managers makes for questionable results as, although it doesn't state the sampling method, it suggests 'these are just the people who could be bothered to reply to surveys we sent out' rather than going for a representative sampling.
It's headline grabber is from a flawed type of question : "do you plan to...". The trouble is "I you plan to..." isn't the same as "there are currently plans drawn up to...". You're essentially getting a non-commital 'yeah probably' response.
It's also linking two unrelated questions: "are you planning on increasing linux usage?" and "are you cutting your budget". Whilst their may possibly be links between the two in some cases, it would be a logical fallacy to assume that companies are switching to linux because of budget cuts.
The irony is... (Score:5, Interesting)
That one might think that the very same recession that increases interest in Linux might well put many of the leading vendors out of business.
Novell's operating margin and profit margins are both negative, according to e-trade. Sun Microsystems looks to be in big trouble, as usual.
But, on the other hand, Red Hat did well last year, so I guess Linux fans should keep their fingers crossed as their earnings are due on the 25th of March. Oracle is also doing ok and their earnings are due out the 18th.
IBM is totally kicking ass right now, EPS wise.
So... you could lose Sun Microsystems and maybe Novell, but you would still have Oracle, Red Hat and IBM to fund OSS development, and, of course, Google.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's one of the biggest advantages of Linux and OSS in general, it's not controlled by a single company so the actions of a single company don't screw everyone over...
Look at the damage done by a bad windows release (vista) compared to a bad release of a given linux distro... If one linux vendor comes out with an unwanted version and try to stop support for the previous version that people wanted to use instead, those customers could just move to another distro.
IBM, Dell and HP seem to agree.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Tomorrow, in an Indian city where I live... IBM, HP and Dell are showcasing their Open Source operations in an event sponsored by PC Quest magazine. There is a hige glut in Open Source adoption (mainly in the servers and storage segment) in recent times in India. I guess the picture is the same elsewhere as well.
The new frugality (Score:5, Interesting)
I have recently been writing about what I call the "new frugality." With an estimated 40% of the world's (fake and inflated) wealth gone in the last year, it is finally becoming obvious to many more people, companies, and government that all expenditures need to be judged on value (preferably long term).
Unfortunately for me, virtually all of my recent consulting work has been taking open source projects, making a few customizations or enhancements, and designing a good deployment strategy. On one hand, this is not good because my revenues are down and I enjoy from-scratch development work. On the other hand, this is good because the profitability of my customers makes my future revenue streams more stable.
Linux, web platforms + frameworks, etc. all make IT more relevant because they increase the value to cost ratio.
Not just servers - should grow on desktops too (Score:5, Interesting)
A lot of it has to do with Linux improving (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been using linux for 14 years now and for most of that time it just has not been quite ready for the masses. The Ubuntu team has made gigantic leaps in making the OS easily configurable and consistent, while the OpenOffice people have provided software which makes it compatible with formats which are necessary for business use. Sure there are still some quirks here and there, but in my opinion they are no harder to deal with than any of the commercial operating systems.
The economic downturn might have something to do with it, but it's only one reason why we're seeing it adopted more.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure there are still some quirks here and there, but in my opinion they are no harder to deal with than any of the commercial operating systems.
Actually, I find them less of a pain to deal with. Why? If something (say playing flv's) doesn't work 100% right all the time on Linux, it's not that big of a deal because it's free. However on Windows, I get rather annoyed because I paid good money for that product.
The problem is not Linux, really (Score:3, Interesting)
I have been using Linux for many years nearly exclusively now and everything I need an OS to do is done quite well by Linux.
The problem is that hardware companies still do not provide support and drivers. And that really pisses me off, increasingly so, since the number of gadgets, devices, peripherals one would like to attach to one's computer has been increasing.
I am sick and tired of getting "sorry, Linux not supported" canned text responses to my inquiries.
Developers do a great job to provide what these companies should provide, but Linux users should really show these guys a bit better that they need to do their homework.
I am planning to buy a Laptop and a mobile phone soon: the laptop company will force me to buy Windows and make no statements about hardware support and the mobile phone company explicitly told me that "sorry Linux is not supported" and not even was able to inform me if I could mount the memory card as an USB drive.
These companies suck but they won't change until a really big number of Linux users lets them know how much they suck.
can we please stop (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sad (Score:4, Insightful)
People make choices on price every day, but if Linux was considered to not be ready for stable business use yet, the price would not entice. Call the economic downturn an extra incentive to take the plunge.
Parent
Re:Sad (Score:5, Insightful)
Solely?
Please. Linux wouldn't even be a consideration if it wasn't up to the task at hand. The only effect this is having is to make businesses rethink the whole "proven technology" sales pitch in favor of actual cost-effectiveness studies that haven't been done simply due to institutional momentum.
All this is going to do is bring intelligent IT planning into vogue, and make people take a look at system performance/applicability rather than chasing a corporate logo around.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not saying that linux insinuates intelligence, I'm saying that looking at your options and choosing based on cost effectiveness is intelligent. The fact that Linux is involved at all has nothing to do with the principles I was talking about except in as much that Linux fits the bill regarding this particular situation. Some organizations have apparently found it to be the best option after considering multiple routes (evidenced by the fact that they had to switch from something else in the first place
No it's not, that's how engineering works (Score:4, Interesting)
Those of us who were involved, even peripherally, in metal bashing in Europe during the 90s may remember "Herr funfzehn prozent" - the guy from Opel who would guarantee you a supply contract if you could undercut his present supplier by 15% on price, which included warranty and quality costs. One German company found a way to make fuel injector casings by deforming metal rather than by cutting, resulting in a 50% cost saving. I don't recall anybody saying "What a pity Opel decided to use a cheaper identical product rather than a more expensive one". What they said was "Great, we have a long term contract, a patent and an unassailable technical lead."
Parent