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Why Buy a PC Preloaded With Linux?
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue May 27, 2008 07:06 AM
from the diabolically-advocating dept.
from the diabolically-advocating dept.
Shadow7789 writes "I have been in the market for a new computer for the past few weeks and I know that I want to run Linux on it. However, every time I look at (for example) Dell's computers that are preloaded with Linux, the question pops into my head: 'Why should I buy a PC preloaded with Linux?' They are more expensive, and it's not hard just to reformat the PC with Linux. I hate paying the Microsoft Tax as much as anybody else, but if paying that 'tax' allows companies to reduce my price by bundling with my PC products that I will never use, why wouldn't I just buy a Windows-loaded PC and reformat?"
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Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Interesting)
This doesn't mean they'll run off and hold a shareholder's meeting about it, but next time one of them is in a meeting and hears "No one wants the Lx version" they'll know better.
Baby steps.
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think it really matters that you were with HP. I think a couple of things were in my favor when I got my refund from Dell:
Be persistent, be firm, and be nice -- realize that the customer representative is just a regular Joe/Jane, like you.
Also, for those who don't read the previously posted article [linux.com], remember that the point is not to get your money back; the point is to respectfully decline the MS Tax, and let them know your doing it.
N.B. It took me about a total of two hours on the phone.
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh? And what message am I trying to send? To be clear, I'm not trying to say "I want Linux." I want choice. The message I want to send is "I want the hardware for the standard price, and I don't want other gobblety-gook rammed down my throat for it."
I am honest: I do not want to pay for something I will not use. I will use the hardware. I will not use the forced-to-buy software. Getting a refund for what I'm not using seems to send exactly the message I want to send. And, it helps the wallet.
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not true. Everytime you buy a product, you are "voting" for it. Refusing to buy a product is voting against that product. In capitalism, the product with enough "votes" to pay the bills, wins. The ones that don't, go away.
An example: I don't buy Sony products, hardware, games, music CDs, etc. Even if they are the best or have the best price, it doesn't matter. Part of this is to "send a signal". I don't wear anti-Sony shirts or really even talk about it (excepting this post). I just refuse to buy any of their products since the root scandal. That *is* me quietly voting against them, thus for their competition. My goal isn't to put them out of business, it is simply to *not* contribute toward their success. They forfeited any possibility of getting my votes (dollars) in the future, regardless of what you or anyone else does.
Seriously, what other methods do people have to voice discontent against a company? Letter writing? Voting with your dollars *is* democracy in action, as it is the only way to send a signal with the most important commodity in the capitalist world: money
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:4, Interesting)
If you specifically order the Linux model you know that whatever hardware they put in the box will work with Linux.
If you order the Windows model you know that whatever hardware they put in the box will work with Windows, but you might get the one motherboard out of three that doesn't like Linux so much.
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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laptops yes to maybe, pc's and servers no (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:laptops yes to maybe, pc's and servers no (Score:5, Insightful)
And I think thats really what pre-installed Linux is about. It's not for experienced Gentoo users who have no issue tweaking and who know what hardware is well supported. It's for people who have heard a lot about this "Linux" thing lately and what to give it a try.
With a pre-installed machine you are getting hardware which has been chosen for you and is known to work well with Linux. You are also getting a certain amount of "polish". Chances are the media buttons on your keyboard/case will do something sensible right out of the box, your video capture card will work without any configuring, etc..
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:4, Insightful)
A computer is good for one thing and one thing only: runnig an operating system.
An operating system is good for one thing and one thing only: Running programs.
Of course, with a computer you want to avoid vertain things as well, such as viruses, spyware, etc.
Car analogy: you may like convertables, but if you live in North Canada one is pretty much a waste of money. If you live in Florida a four wheel drive is likeways a waste. If you run Linux and buy a Logitech wireless keyboard, the extras like the media control buttons aren't going to work. I've sworn of Logotech for just that reason; the morons only support Microsoft (as I found out after buying Logitech - never again!). I have no use for a company whose hardware won't support my OS.
So the GP hhas it right. If it comes preinstalled with Linux, you know it and any accessories that come with it will work.
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:5, Funny)
2008 hasn't failed to become the year of Linux on the desktop yet.
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Re:Well, for one thing.. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you are going to install your own OS, Windows requires far
more babysitting and futzing before you will end up with a fully
functional system.
This is why you buy a system with the OS preloaded.
Loading Windows on a bare machine is a royal PITA compared to a
Linux install. This is pretty much a sure bet with Windows versus
being a role of the dice with Linux.
Then there's the stupid anti-piracy crap...
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Principle is seldom cheap. (Score:5, Interesting)
Make your principles cost them. (Score:5, Informative)
Returning windows does so many good things: increases the cost of selling Windows. Reduces the cost of buying a machine for Linux. Ensures MS don't get their MSTax, exercises the consumer laws, teaches companies to accept returns. (in the long run; the company probably makes a fixed cost deal with MS in any case and probably doesn't dare claim back, but they get a stronger negociating position next time round if many people do this).
Probably even better (I'm not sure though) is buying from a supplier like penguin computing [penguincomputing.com] which doesn't stock Windows in the first place. When you give extra money to Dell, you are giving to a company which does a great deal to support Windows development. When you give to Penguin, you can be pretty sure you aren't contributing.
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Re:Principle is seldom cheap. (Score:5, Interesting)
I would choose to pay slightly more, because it tells the manufacturers that I want to use Linux, and I'd really like them to supply Linux drivers for their hardware.
There is a different argument as to whether you should pay more to Dell et al, or buy the cheaper machine and donate the extra to a FOSS project. I'm not sure which option is preferable there.
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To make a point (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:To make a point (Score:5, Insightful)
Depending on the country you're in, they may or may not be obliged to refund the cost of Windows. Very few countries where they would be have included in such legislation "and the retailer must make it easy".
Forcing you to spend an hour on the phone to a potplant reading from a script and training staff in a draconian refund policy (but not the customer's legal rights) are just two ways retailers use to duck out of honouring your statutory rights.
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I've often thought of this (Score:5, Insightful)
At the end of the day, I always decide that the hassle isn't worth it and that I'd also rather send the message to the company that there is a market for selling computers preloaded with Linux.
Just my $0.02.
Re:I've often thought of this (Score:4, Insightful)
Believe it or not, MS had to go through this phase of consumer acceptance with Win95 also.
Personally, when I purchased my last pc I could not get a pc preloaded with Linux, so I bought pieces and built my own like I have been doing for years. Hopefully when I buy my next pc that will not be the case.
If you can afford it, pay the tax, then take the EULA back for a refund. That should be good for one or two WTF blog posts anyway.
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Re:I've often thought of this (Score:4, Informative)
It sold out on the first day, and was also full of bugs.
I don't think you can compare Linux consumer acceptance to Win95 consumer acceptance.
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Re:I've often thought of this (Score:4, Interesting)
Blithely saying just return the EULA isn't going to work.
Saving money is all well and good- but when it contributes to the problem, unless you just simply can't swing the "extra expense" you should probably be doing DIY instead where you're not adding to their sales figures- which is what happens when you buy a unit, even if you return it because of the way their accounting for this stuff is done.
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Re:I've often thought of this (Score:4, Informative)
In the end, you're NOT helping things by buying the Windows machine. If you're not running Windows and they're not selling bare machines or ones with your OS of choice on it you're not really their customer- even though you're buying the machine. If you've no choice (no funds, no buying options...) this is a lesser of two evils thing- it's okay.
It's not so okay if you've got a choice. Sure it's cheaper- but each purchase of Windows or a Windows application is a VOTE with your dollars for MORE of the same crap.
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Not every PC costs more with Linux (Score:5, Informative)
I haven't looked at their desktops, so I don't know if the same applies there.
keep looking, they are out there (Score:5, Informative)
No Operating System Installed £249.99 inc vat
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition £299.99 inc vat
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic £329.00 inc vat
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium £339.00 inc vat
Microsoft Windows Vista Business £349.00 inc vat
Microsoft Windows XP Professional £359.00 inc vat
If you can install it yourself, that's nice, ... (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's the ideal case where there are no problems whatsoever after installing the OS. During my last attempts to install Ubuntu, I had to manually mess with the video driver settings (and that was for an ancient Ati Rage Mobility 3 chipset, nothing newfangled, which ran just fine with the previous version of Ubuntu).
Ok (Score:5, Interesting)
Secondly, if you WANT Linux and FOSS software to succeed in the desktop realm, supporting companies that are willing to go out on a limb and sell Linux on Desktops and Laptops is necessary. If there isn't any profit in it for them, they won't support FOSS. Simple as that.
Thirdly, Why would you WANT to pay the "Microsoft Tax", or have to deal with fighting with a machine who's hardware might only be partially supported under Linux. Vs. a machine with NO "Microsoft Tax" AND will have all hardware fully supported in Linux? Why make things harder on yourself?
Unless there is a specific piece of hardware that you need or want that is in a Windows box and not a Linux box, I really don't see the need to buy Windows when you want Linux if there are Linux machines available. Especially when the Linux machines are comparable in specs to the Windows ones, excepting the really high-end gaming rigs (Of course, if you want a high-end gaming rig, why wouldn't you just build it yourself from hardware you know is Linux supported?)
support? (Score:5, Insightful)
- for one thing, one can pray that the manufacturer has done everything to maximize compatibility. Sure, you can do it yourself, but for an average user, it really makes sense.
- support. Support is needed, when you're stuck and dont know what to do (or what questions to ask in the forums!). Having professional support is always a plus.
- you can't resell your Windows liscence anyways (read the small print). So why just trash it?
- giving the industry a sign. Ok, that one is a bit too theoretical, but anyways. A company producing a nice linux-powered PC that sells will continue to do that. Develop drivers, boots support, invest time and money. It will be an indicator that it isnt ony possible, but profitable... maybe others will then follow!
Why buy a pre-built computer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Best of both worlds (Score:5, Informative)
It's convenient. (Score:4, Insightful)
And it doesn't always cost more.
Dell pricing is very funny.
Sometime the Linux models cost more, sometimes less.
Sometimes the Dell Small Business models cost more than Dell Home, sometimes less.
In my case a dell coupon code that they didn't mention would work on the Ubuntu model happened to work, so it was actually the exact same price as the windows model that day.
It demonstrates that there's a demand (Score:5, Interesting)
You may be able to install Linux on such a computer, but the proverbial Joe Sixpack or grandmother can't, or will be afraid to, or won't want to bother. If you lie to the market, you're making it less likely that _they_ will have the option to buy a computer with Linux preinstalled.
(And yes, I've put my money where my mouth is; I'm waiting for the Dell laptop with Linux preinstalled to arrive.)
IBM (Score:4, Interesting)
simple matter of opportunity cost (Score:5, Insightful)
The question you want to ask yourself is whether the extra money paid is worth the chance to help bring this about. How much is the future prospect of better Linux compatibility worth to you? Is there something more valuable you can and want to do with whatever money you might save?
Custom made? (Score:4, Insightful)
why Buy a PC preloaded with Windows? (Score:4, Informative)
So as you can then get the refund of US$109.162 [bbc.co.uk] by clicking "no" on the Windows licence agreement
It is odd that a Linux box costs more then a Windows box considering what Dell is paying for Linux. And considering with Linux you get a fully functioning Desktop, Office suite, multimedia etc as compared to a time limited reduced functionality Windows desktop.
Does Dell still have to pay the Microsoft tax regardless of how many Windows boxes it sells?
Re:So you can blame the vendor (Score:4, Insightful)
you never delt with DELL or HP have you. that is their standard answer with....
"get out your restore CD and reinstall the OS."
Oh that support is worth paying for.... Erase my pc and everything I did for the past 4 months and wipe+reinstall the drive.
If that is what commercial support I am "paying" for is I'll pass.
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Re:You should definitely pay the "tax" (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you'll feel better if you stand on principle, especially if it only cost you a few bucks. Judas killed himself over twenty silver pieces, right?
Every voice probably counts for something? That should really inspire the next generation.
Come on, man. You do actually use Linux, don't you? Do you really believe your own post? I encourage you to think critically about it. Participating in slashdot should embolden us to eliminate the Microsoft tax, not rationalize paying it.
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