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Liberation Fonts Increase Interoperability For Linux Users
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Jun 25, 2008 04:36 PM
from the yes-yes-gnu-slash-linux dept.
from the yes-yes-gnu-slash-linux dept.
hweimer writes "Most problems when opening Word documents under GNU/Linux are due to missing fonts. Therefore, Red Hat published a set of fonts metric-compatible with the Windows core fonts last year. However, there were some concerns regarding the licensing that prevented many other distros to ship them. We finally managed to settle these problems, leading to better document interoperability for all GNU/Linux users."
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Used to be known as... (Score:5, Funny)
I fixed it for you (Score:5, Funny)
You think you're funny (Score:5, Insightful)
Well you are, OK, that was funny.
But it's also serious.
GOD DAMN the Word document structure sucks like something that sucks a lot.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Word sucks so hard, it could suck start OpenOffice.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
From what I've heard you can sometimes get better results opening Word documents with OpenOffice.
Word can only be explained as a plot to sap the productivity of computer users, towards what end I cannot say.
Re:I fixed it for you (Score:5, Insightful)
By one estimation*, developers would have almost twice as many annoying requirements if business analysts were to switch to open-source word-smithing tools.
*In his defense, the estimator was both drunk and bitter at the set of requirements he had just been handed.
Parent
Re:I fixed it for you (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, the developers need better targetting because millions of people and billions of man-hours are wasted by Word. I bet Word causes more pain and wasted time than the U.S. tax code.
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Is Word worse than Excel? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does Word have a greater Gross National Productivity Cost than Excel? It seems like they are about the same, except Excel might be worse since it is more likely to cause collateral damage (bad business decisions because the numbers were crunched wrong).
But there is software that has an even higher GNPC than either of these two: PowerPoint.
MS Office: the corporate equivalent of multiple sclerosis. Gets your business into the wheelchair races real quick.
Parent
Re:I fixed it for you (Score:5, Informative)
We had Word documents get so screwed up that Word wouldn't open them. The best fix was to open them in OpenOffice and re-save them. It messed up the formatting, but it was better than losing a days work. I keep it around as a repair tool even in an all MS shop.
If you think Word is evil, stay away from Publisher.
Parent
Linux Liberation Font? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Linux Liberation Font? (Score:5, Funny)
Correct kerning derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!
Parent
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Hold on.
Are you trying to say that a very generic and non-particular someone threw a katana at the font?
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Help Help!
Bully for the fonts RedHat.
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I mean, if I was a company, running around and distributing font files and declaring myself the Linux Liberation Font, they'd put me away!
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Which means ... if you distribute documents in Word format, the terrorists will have won.
Geez, could the last presidential election have been almost four years ago?
Re:Linux Liberation Font? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Linux Liberation Font? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
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Where can I download this "Liberation of Linux" font? It sounds like it'd be good for my paper on open source technology.
PLO? (Score:2)
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Do I need/want these? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Do I need/want these? (Score:5, Informative)
Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that each copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all copyright and trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy of this EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not be distributed for profit either on a standalone basis or included as part of your own product.
Note in particular the "Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not be distributed for profit either on a standalone basis or included as part of your own product." part.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
FWIW, the copy of those fonts that HP distributed with some versions of HPUX 11.11 did not have that same EULA.
The version of that paragraph included in the README file of /usr/lib/X11/fonts/ms.st/typefaces/README says:
Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce and distribute
an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided
that each copy shall be a true and complete copy, including all
copyright and trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a
copy of this EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may be
distributed as a standalone product or included with your own
product. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not be sold or
distributed for any kind of fee.
The difference being that the version of this EULA says you can include them "with your own product" which appears to mean you can charge a fee for your product and include the fonts "for free." It sure seems like that's what HP actually did given that they came with the copy of HPUX that
Re:Thats what keeps them free. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sometimes people want to install Linux on a computer without Internet access. Crazy, I know. MSTTCorefonts can't be distributed on the distro CD, so that computer wouldn't have a way to get them.
Parent
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corefonts are on dodgy legal ground since microsoft decided they weren't really interested in the improving the internet experience for all people, and their removal of them. If these new fonts are good enough, corefonts will be removed from the distros over time.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I find the liberation fonts more visually appealing. Fedora has a lush look to it without any tweaking, in my opinion ... and part of that is the font choice. If you're curious what it looks like, just do a search for Fedora screenshots.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If I already have corefonts installed, do I need or want these?
I've tried the Liberation fonts some months ago, but went back to mscorefonts.
My reason was that, while Liberation seem to look as "good" as MS' ones with font blurring enabled (that subpixel-something I hate, also the reason I put "good" between quotes), once you disable the blurring they become a set of disconnected lines and dots that only slightly resemble the alphabet. MS fonts, on the other hand, look beautifully, sharp and crisp, on blurless mode. Now, I don't know whether Liberation has improved it
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This is good, but (Score:4, Interesting)
What is really needed to help Linux stand out is a set of F/LOSS-licensed fonts that are of even better quality than the default MS stuff--I mean it's essential to be able to show Times New Roman correctly, but what would make Linux (and other free operating systems) stand out is a selection of superb fonts.
Look to Firefox for an example--people didn't choose it (solely) because it was free; they chose it because it works better (for them). I suspect at least some users could be swayed by better default fonts.
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Re:This is good, but (Score:4, Insightful)
Define better.
Also font making doesnt lend it self to collaboration, basically you need 100 font making drones to try their hardest and then you tell 99 of them to go home. Companies don't mind doing this but if you didn't even get paid to make your font, youd be pretty pissed when it hours of your work are ditched in favor of something with a few more curly bits.
Parent
And similar enough to be a good substitute (Score:5, Informative)
Like Arial is rather similar to Helvetica. Some people claim that Microsoft did this to avoid paying royalties, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial#Criticism.2FSimilar_fonts [wikipedia.org].
Now this may be true or not, but after they almost copied Helvetica with Arial, turnabout's fair play.
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You are probably correct but you do understand that 99.999% of the people can not tell the difference between Arial and Helvetica.
Just like with wine all we care about is that they are easy to read and pleasing to the eye.
That is the big problem I have found with these Freedom fonts. To me they are just not easy to read.
Re:This is good, but (Score:4, Informative)
Gentium [sil.org]. It's released under the Open Font License, which I believe is "free" (by the FSF's definition).
It was also designed with many extended Latin characters, allowing ethnic groups across the world to produce documents typeset in Gentium. (I mean, just look at all these diacritics! [sil.org])
Say what you want about the organization that produced these (SIL International), but this is a good-looking, high-quality typeface, which fits your criteria perfectly.
Parent
Re:This is good, but (Score:4, Informative)
Times New Roman was introduced in 1932. Baskerville in 1757.
Type design at the highest level is an extraordinarily rare art and craft.
Assuming you have that problem solved, how do limit their distribution of your new font set to the "free" operating systems - without having the pragmatists and the ideologues of F/OSS coming at you with pitchforks from every side?
Linux has about a 0.68% share of the desktop. Sun with OpenOffice.org and the Mozilla Foundation with Firefox have set their sights a little higher.
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Agreed.
I particularly find Bitstream Vera Serif easy on my eyes.
I don't know about you (Score:2)
I don't know about you, but I'd like to have a system that's 100% Verdana-free.
100% Arial-free, too. Yes, I can tell the difference between Arial and Helvetica, and Arial just looks garish.
Besides, Luxi fonts are cooler than any of the Windows core fonts :P
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It's the ultimate evil font only because they retired Zapf Chancery's jersey number. That was one evil, evil overused font.
What's wrong with IBM Courier? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What's wrong with IBM Courier, which has been included with every distribution of X11 since X11R5?
The problem is that LCD monitors happened. Personally, I had been stuffing LucidaTypwriter (specifically, lutRS14) into every text editor in every OS I used for over 15 years. However, I finally gave up on it a couple of years ago because LCDs accentuate the jagginess of bitmap fonts. They overcome the problem (and surpass CRTs) with subpixel rendering, but that only works with scalable fonts.
So I recompiled my distro's FreeType package with the "good stuff" enabled and set my text editors to Bitstream
Re: (Score:2)
Try terminus - Re:What's wrong with IBM Courier? (Score:2, Informative)
Terminus fonts (xfonts-terminus on ubuntu) looks good on LCD.
I've switched to that after using lucidasanstypewriter for about 12 yrs.
Other distros don't need to follow (Score:2)
Most distributions adopted the Liberation fonts more than a year ago. At least Fedora and Mandriva [mandriva.com] did.
This really shouldn't be news, as the Debian license-police usually delay introduction of anything new with unnecessary (see links in article) license haggling.
As far as I can see, the exception on the liberation fonts makes the "software" more free, whereas the Tex csplain additional restriction makes the software less free (one of the freedoms is lost).
The GPL incompatibility is also moot, since no other
oh dear (Score:2)
Wow, those are some ugly fonts.
Aren't there free high-quality versions of Helvetica, Times and Courier available already?
The Liberation fonts might make it possible to read things, but they're certainly not going to make it possible to make good looking documents or web pages. Unless, of course, the Windows versions are just extra ugly to punish me for having to use XP at work...
I don't get it. (Score:2)
How is this better than any of the other similar fonts out there such as Linux Libertine [sourceforge.net] or Bitstream Vera [wikipedia.org]?
Both of thses font groups are similar, serve the same purpose and have been around much longer.
I've used all three and see very little difference.
What Linux really needs are some good fonts that don't mimic the standard Windows fonts. There are lots of very nice fonts that come with Microsoft Office, few of which have decent equivalents in Linux (excluding proprietary fonts you can buy from a number o
...am I missing something here? (Score:2)
This thread on Debian-Legal [mail-archive.com] seems to suggest that Debian does not think the licensing issue has been resolved.
And this thread on Debian-Legal [mail-archive.com] which the Liberation Fonts page itself links to, also has Francesco Poli describing very clearly that he thinks Debian doesn't have the right to redistribute the fonts with the current license.
So.. where are the messages showing the Debian people actually accepting the licensing terms and deciding to add the font package to Debian?
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