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Falling Hardware Prices Favor Linux
Posted by
kdawson
on Sat Sep 29, 2007 02:46 PM
from the days-when-vista-walked-the-earth dept.
from the days-when-vista-walked-the-earth dept.
An anonymous reader sends us to a blog posting arguing that, as hardware prices fall below $250 for laptops and desktops, Linux should gain as the Microsoft tax stands out in sharper relief. "In previous years, if you were spending US$1500 and up on a laptop, the Microsoft tax you were paying didn't seem like such a big deal. XP or Vista was pre-installed, fairly convenient... But as the price of hardware for small basic machines comes down, (think under US$250 by the end of next year), then software price starts to become a big issue. Why would you pay the price of your new laptop again just for the software, when all you want to do is really basic things?"
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Submission: Is the success of Linux a hardware issue? by Anonymous Coward
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Serving the diners or the cooks? (Score:5, Informative)
As far as I know, Ubuntu is the only distro that mostly understands this. Just a coincidence that it's the most popular desktop?
Re:Serving the diners or the cooks? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Serving the diners or the cooks? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd say the biggest difference is that with Windows, the cost of support is somewhat built into the price of the system, whereas with Linux, it's frequently (though not always) packaged separately. This means that support for MS systems can be a great deal if you just have one system, but not such a good deal if you have hundreds. With Linux, it's frequently the reverse.
Of course, unpaid support for both systems is pretty problematic. But that's a separate matter. However, even there, Linux leads by having Ubuntu. MS has no equivalent of a free system with free support.
Parent
Not really, but falling hardware prices don't (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact is-- many businesses going the open source route save money, but many pay more. Those that pay more understand that the money they save on software license fees can go towards making their entire operations more efficient, and they usually will send significantly more on consulting labor in this regard than they saved on software license costs.
Open source software is not the low-cost cheap solution. It is actually the high-end, more expensive solution which provides a grea
Re:Serving the diners or the cooks? (Score:4, Informative)
At least when Linux people answer you, it's "okay do this, then this, then this, in that order -- and watch out for x, y, and z". Microsoft people are "okay look in the manual" and then the manual of the product you're trying to use just has clues scattered about in many tiny articles that you have to piece together.
Fuck no. Linux's world these days, in terms of how-tos, is leaps and bounds ahead of Microsoft culture. The only reason Windows has any edge over Linux these days is "IT HAS GAEMS", and even that's only because of a self-feeding cycle among game company marketing weenies where game developers won't make Linux games because WINDOWS HAS GAEMS AND LINUX DOESNT SO LETS MAKE MOAR WINDOZE GAEMS.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
-"Oh your food's not hot enough? Just give us your microwave real quick and we'll heat it right up!" "I don't carry a microwave with me to restaurants, especially ones that have signs outside advertising freedom from carrying around a microwave." "Oh, well, we d
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Er, not quite.
What drove me away was the fact that:
-Despite following the install instruction to the letter
-Despite reserving the Linux install to a separate hard drive
-Despite following the HIGHLY RECOMMENDED advice to install Grub on the MBR
the install didn't work AND
-kept me from doing anything on the command line when it got the error
-locked me out of Windows, and therefore a
Pay for the codecs. (Score:4, Interesting)
Basically, the solution is to build in an (optional) method to the mainstream Linux distributions so that users can purchase and install legitimate codecs, or get them with the distribution pre-installed. The parent company of Lindows purchased the rights to the codecs' IP already, so it's really a matter of taking them and working the licenses into Ubuntu or a similar, more popular distro.
Yes, this would make the resulting distro non-free, in the same way that pre-installing a proprietary video driver would, and it would mean that there would be a charge to the user for each machine that they got with Linux on it. However, it would still be far cheaper than Windows (remember: Windows has to pay for the same IP licenses, it's just built into the cost of the entire OS; with Linux, that would be your only cost), and as a result you'd get a machine that could deal with modern multimedia and video out of the box, or with at most a one-click install. None of the current hunting around on forums for instructions that come with a lot of "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, informational-purposes-only" disclaimers.
Parent
They make it up in volume (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Serving the diners or the cooks? (Score:5, Informative)
You are either making up a good story are just full of crap.
1) HP Vista laptops ship with recovery DVDs, there is no reason to create one.
2) Connecting to wireless is as easy as clicking on the freaking ballon that says, networks are available, click to connect to one, and even if it is WPA or WEP, you type in the freaking number or insert the USB drive with the key.
3) Setting up accounts is hard on Vista? Wow, then you better run from any *nix. Control Panel -> User accounts -> Create new account (Type Name and Password, select security level) Done...
4) Product activation is automatic if you tell it to just activate when you are online, or one click in the control panel.
5) AV Software? Wow, that is tough, download AVG, and you are done.
So again tell us how this took you ALL DAY?
I'll call you out on this, as I just delivered several new HP laptops to family and friends that don't even understand the difference between the left and right mouse buttons, and they ALL completed the tasks you describe by themselves in under 5 minutes...
So which is it, are you really that stupid or lying to get positive SlashDot points?
Parent
MS Tax? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Advertised? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Dead and buried at Walmart.com (Score:4, Informative)
Neither.
OEM Linux disappeared from Walmart.com in late January.
Walmart.com's cheapest Compaq Presario [walmart.com] has an Athlon Dual Core CPU, 1 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD, DVD burner, GeForce 6150 SE graphics and runs Vista Basic. $348.
Top of the line at $1900:
The HP Elite with Intel Core 2 Quad CPU, 3 GB RAM, 2 500 GB HDDs, ATSC tuner, etc., running Vista Ultimate
And where are Wal-Mart's national advertisements for this product line?
Where they have always been: In Limbo. Non-existent.
Parent
Re:MS Tax? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm a SuSE Desktop 10.1 user so it doesn't really matter - but it's a good exercise for the course, worth considering.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you want to do that and try commenting again?
Falling HW Prices Benefit...MS (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> "The article really has it wrong. Falling HW prices make paying the "MS tax" more palatable."
The article has it right. Microsoft got their start playing Monopoly by selling a $50 DOS package for $2000 - $6000 computers. Just the retail sales taxes were more than DOS.
Then the price of computers started to fall ... not much, because the hardware requirements went up, for running Windows. Still, $1500 - $3000 for a decent computer, and $100 for an OS - the sales taxes were still more of a considerati
City Tax? (Score:3, Insightful)
I've got no problems with your use and enjoyment of MS software (I used to know a lot of perfectly reasonable people who agreed with you, although that number definitel
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
please (Score:5, Insightful)
With proper configuration and support, it stands on it's own. Not to mention Linux *will* cost at least some money for retailers if they want customers to really take it seriously since they'll need to pay royalties to the owners of formats like mp3 etc, since having it not be able to do those types of things out of the box is retarded when you just payed for the damn thing to be pre-configured.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
From my perspective, I hope we stop calling always calling it Linux, and rather just focus on the distro, such as "Ubuntu" or maybe "Dell OS"... The beauty of Lin
Re:please (Score:5, Insightful)
Really? Until perhaps 2000, Windows didn't come with MP3 support. To this day, it still doesn't come with AAC support, and WMA is a joke.
Windows doesn't include popular video codecs, either. Divx/MPEG-4 is everywhere, but NOT included with Windows... Everyone's still forced to download the codec from Divx.com... And, you guessed it, they provide a Linux version as well.
So, nobody is going to take Linux seriously, because it requires a couple clicks in Synaptic to install every audio and video codec you could ever want (MPlayer/libavcodec). But everyone takes Windows seriously, because it forces you to trawl the web to find every single individual video and audio codec you want to use...
I can see you're right. Linux* is going in the wrong direction... It should be MORE Windows-like, and make multimedia encoding and playback infinitely more difficult.
And as for MP3s... The patent expires in a couple years, and the point becomes moot (see: GIFs).
* (Disclaimer: I'm actually a FreeBSDer... Long live Slackware)
Parent
Look for a price drop (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe someday $250 will sound good ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
While this is true for users of Windows many don't even have a computer. Fo
A Windows license is not that expensive (Score:3, Insightful)
Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Add this to the list of things which should make Linux gain marketshare. Off the top of my head, the list includes: Microsoft's problems with XP/Vista, Apple's problems with 10.4/10.5, Apple's switch to Intel, the latest Windows virus, the introduction of the iPhone, the introduction of the iTMS, the fact that Balmer is a sweaty ape, and on and on.
The reason that Linux is, and will remain a niche player in the OS desktop market have almost next to nothing to do with technology. I think many posters here have at least a minimum familiarity with Linux, at least enough to know that a well-maintained Linux system can easily do all of the things more normal computer buyers need. It can check email, surf the web, handle digital pictures, play music, load music onto iPods, balance checkbook and find porn. The problem for Linux is that Windows and OS X can do all these things as well. Given this, there's no reason for an average consumer to switch.
What about hardware lock in? What about free, as in speech and beer?
No one cares.
I will repeat that: the average consumer doesn't care about either one. Most consumers already hold themselves in a sort of vendor lock in. If they've had a good experience buying from Dell, odds are they will continue to buy from Dell. If they've had good luck with Macs their entire computing lives, odds are they will stay there. And it's not just with computers. We all know people who will only by Hondas, or Fords, or Black & Decker or Bose. This isn't a technology issue, it's a marketing and consumer loyalty issue, and no amount of fancy kernel engineering will change that. It's the same for free speech and beer: your average consumer doesn't see the cost of the OS, because s/he buys one with the computer. My brother ran the OS his Powerbook came with (10.2.8) for years. He only accidently upgraded to 10.4 because he brought his machine to me to fix an unrelated problem, and I said something like, "Holy shit, you're still running 10.2.8." It was all the same to him, and I'm not sure he noticed the difference between 10.2 and 10.4. I'm sure he will be running whatever version of 10.4 his MacBook Pro came with until the next time he sees me.
everyone is a techie if it means free stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole "people don't care about what technology they are using" argument fails the moment users realize they can get free stuff. For example the mainstream adoption of bittorent to download movies. All of a sudden everyone knows how it works and where to look for torrents etc.
And when Linux means that their laptop costs 1/2 as much, all of a sudden everyone will be recommending packages out of Ubuntu.
The one flaw with this whole thing is that it is absurd to think that Microsoft would blindly price themselves out of the market. Microsoft will sell XP for the next 10 years at $15 a pop if that is what they have to do to stay dominant. They charge $100/machine only because the market will bear it.
Parent
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
No. No.
And no.
I know there's a general bias against marketing on Slashdot. Hell, even I think it's bullshit 50% of the time. But marketing--real, well done marketing, like Apple does--is a very difficult thing, and it's something which very few companies in any industry do well. Some companies do it well and poorly at the same time. Most of Microsoft's market is for shit, but their XBox division does it very well (at least in the U.S. They suck at it in Japan.)
Fr'example, let's look at the iPod versus the Zune. Apple's iPod marketing is very focused and seemingly very simple. It has one, overriding message: the iPod is music. Not 'the iPod can help you manage your music collection'. Not 'the iPod makes your music sound better'. Not even 'you can share your music with your friends with the iPod'. Simply, 'the iPod is music'. And because the iPod's product design backs this up, it's an enormously successful product because the whole thing is designed to make managing your music collection and using the device as simple as possible. There are no extraneous features, and none advertised. You aren't told what you can do with your music, or how to handle it, or how many in formats you can listen to it. You are simpye told, 'this is music.' You plug it into your machine. It grabs your playlists. You press play.
Now, let's look at the Zune, if you can find one. It wasn't sold as an mp3 player: it was sold as some weird cross between a music player and a social networking device. The message wasn't 'this thing is music'. The message was. . .
. . .well, there was no message. There wasn't a coherent narrative, or a center of focus. There was just 'here's this thing which will do stuff. With music. Buy it. . .'
Linux has no narrative an average computer user will care about.
Parent
A timely subject! (Score:5, Insightful)
Perspective flip (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Perspective flip (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
hardware price decrases, system specs increase (Score:4, Interesting)
Not so fast...! (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless Linux vendors produce what people want, there will not be that much anticipated uptake at all.
If one has to download and configure not less that 4 pieces of software just to get a basic mail-server functional, using the command line and editing text files which can be prone to errors...
If one has to put up with slow loading software (read OpenOffice.org) running on ugly interfaces that sometimes look incomplete (read KDE and GNOME), then we in the Linux world will wait a long time to get noticed especially on the desktop.
But it's getting better on the server front. The Apache web server for example does not require that many add ons [if any], to get it fully functional, and the upcoming release of KDE looks very promising.
On the GNOME front, I am not impressed by its inability to do basic file operations in the file dialog.
Those that argue that this functionality should be restricted to the file manager have never explained why one can still create a directory/folder within this same file dialog. With their argument, it should be removed. Period.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Apart from anything, the idea that a graphical interface is an easier option than text files for configuration o
People pay for Windows? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Man, I'm bummed. I got this pretty hot new laptop for three hundred bucks but it didn't come with Windows, and I don't have a copy of it anywhere."
"Oh? Hmm, I've got the disc right here in my drawer. Hold on, I'll burn you a copy." *takes out a CD with 'Windows XP' and a serial number scribbled on it in marker*
Ooh! Look at me speculate! (Score:3, Informative)
Or, we can toss these stupidly speculative articles and actually cover something that's happened, or currently happening? I thought this was *news* for nerds.
Oh, and by the way, you'll never see a laptop or a desktop for $250, because at that price point there's no point in selling them at all unless your shop is selling thousands of them a month. The same thing has happened to PDAs. You can now only get a Palm Tungsten E in a bundle with a wireless keyboard because the technology has been on the shelf so long that it's not worth $300 by itself anymore. In 6 months, you won't be able to get them at all, replaced with something else at that price point.
Double-edged Sword (Score:3, Insightful)
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What are you talking about? You would of course buy Ubuntu preinstalled precisely because you would have to do none of these thing. The OEM has installed and conf
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If my mother were to walk into best buy and buy a Pavilion dv9000 with Ubuntu preinstalled, she's going to have to go through what would have to be hell for her and back to get it running: boot options like "nokvm noapic noacpi", blacklisting bcm43xx, installing ndiswrapper over a wired connection, manually installing flash for their 64-bit system.. These are not things that your average non-geek is capable of doing. Until they don't need to do those things to go on facebook, download music and watch movies
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Frist! (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: OEM Windows or OEM Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
This is also true of Windows. For those who have tried to get a Toshiba laptop functioning properly using a boxed version of Windows XP, they'll see no difference with Linux.
Most OEMs bundle "their" Windows with their hardware. Toshiba, for example, images a version of Windows XP with all the drivers for their hardware installed. If you were packaging Linux with as an OEM, you would do the same thing.
When using a boxed Windows XP, the Toshiba laptop here needed video card drivers, WiFi drivers, and audio card drivers downloaded and installed. I would expect the same to be true with a comparable Linux distribution. I'm sure that before HP ships a Linux machine, they have installed all the drivers for the hardware in the machine. Additionally, the lower end hardware has probably more "customized" Windows images on it.
Ask anyone who has rebuilt a laptop from an original Windows XP installation. Then ask them how many drivers were need to bring the machine to the OEM bundle performance. The same would be true of a Linux distribution.
Parent
Re: OEM Windows or OEM Linux (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I think I've posted maybe 20 comments ever on this site, this is I think the first one I've posted with the new system in place. I hope that you'll be able to overlook this small omission.
Sorry you feel so strongly about it - next time I will look that little bit longer
Yes, and I know why it didn't work out that way (Score:5, Insightful)
And I know why the effect didn't bite. It's because the big OEMs get their cost of Windows installation offset by the fees that crapware manufacturers play to get their demo versions and adware and spyware bundled into the distro. For an outfit like Dell, those fees are probably large enough to make installing Windows a net profit generator.
This would also explain why Linux configurations generally cost more that Windows configurations with identical hardware. It's not conspiracy, they're just trying to maintain margin in the absence of the crapware fees.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The cost of installing linux at this point is non-zero, because its an "out of the ordinary" thing for most PC manufacturers - they're simply not geared for it.
Now add the revenues from crapware - even if its only $20, that's $20 more that "has" to be added to the price of the linux box, for the simple reason that most linux users don't need what the crapware sellers are selling. Antivirus? Nope. AOL? Puh-lease. Ghost? We've got dd for free, and it even backs up Windows partitions ... so until someone com