Debian win32-loader Goes Official

An anonymous reader writes "After a long process of review and polishing, the win32 loader from goodbye-microsoft.com has finally made its way to official Debian CDs. Latest daily builds of lenny (the development version) are including it, making starting Debian Installer as simple as just a few clicks (OGG). The win32-loader version, now based on GRUB 2, includes new features such as detection and pre-seeding of Windows settings, and is translated to 20 languages."

Huh?

[spuke4000 (587845)]

Since none of the links in the story explain what the win32-loader is, can anyone explain what it does?

Re:Huh?

[ZOMFF (1011277)]

It appears that the win32-loader allows you to begin the install process of Debian from a Windows operating system.

Re:

[Hatta (162192)]

Why would anyone want to do that? What's wrong with popping a CD in the drive and rebooting?

Re:

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

Why would anyone want to do that? What's wrong with popping a CD in the drive and rebooting?

Because not all machines are capable of booting from a CD, and, even if it's possible with a given machine, in many BIOSes this capability is not enabled by default. And telling a newbie to go into BIOS setup to change settings is likely to scare the crap out of them.

Re:Huh?

[joto (134244)]

And telling a newbie to go into BIOS setup to change settings is likely to scare the crap out of them.

And the newbie would be right.

Installing debian on a windows system should also scare the crap out of a newbie. He will loose all his old files (including family photos), even if this "win32-loader" allows him to keep his worthless bookmarks.

While I have nothing against trying to convince people to try linux, I have something against the people who will try just about anything, including outright lying, in order to make people switch.

bad feeling

[d3ac0n (715594)]

What I find interesting is the potential for "Linux Phishing" or "Linux Greifing" that this creates. There are already plenty of problems with various viruses loading directly through the browser in Windows, can you imagine what would happen if a "religious Linux fanatic" were to take this, alter it to use a known but unpatched IE vulnerability to auto-install and reboot people's machines into Linux? What would happen if a "religious Microsoft fanatic" did the same thing to try and make Linux look bad?

I've got a baaaad feeling about this...

the Tux Virus

[hawk (1151)]

This scenario was labeled the "Tux Virus" many years ago.

Typically, the scenario involved a win95 themed wm and a far-fetched belief that wine or openoffice could allow the user to be fooled at least briefly.

hawk

Re:Huh?

[Falstius (963333)]

I haven't used goodbye-microsoft, but Wubi (which is supposedly based on it) does the same for Ubuntu. It works by installing Ubuntu to a file on the Windows partition. So not only do you not lose your Windows files, you don't even have to perform a relatively risky partitioning. It also leaves the windows boot loader in place and chain-loads grub o you don't have the "Ahh, how do I remove grub!!!!" questions.

Its not the best way to run Linux, but it is a very safe way and faster and more permanent than a LiveCD.

Re:Huh?

[at_slashdot (674436)]

<i>"Wubi [...] does the same for Ubuntu. It works by installing Ubuntu to a file on the Windows partition."</i>

No it doesn't, this installer installs Debian on normal Linux partition not to a file.

Re:

[petermgreen (876956)]

* forgotton bios password.
* motherboard that doesn't support CD booting or at least doesn't support it properly.
* USB or firewire CD drive and a bios that doesn't support booting from it.
* No cd drive at all (the loader can be used to set off an install from the network).

Re:

[westlake (615356)]

It appears that the win32-loader allows you to begin the install process of Debian from a Windows operating system.

Well, thanks, for the info....

But what does it say about the Geeks of "Goodbye-Microsoft.com" that no one bothers to explain something as basic as this? "Use of Debian logo does not imply endorsement by the Debian project."

Well, that is reassuring.

Who are these guys and why should I trust them?

In launching the installer are you committing yourself to a total erasure of your Windows OS,

Re:

[westlake (615356)]

Only if you choose to do so from within the installer.

--- and only if the installer does what you tell it to do.

I see a zealot's website with two sparse pages of text, some crappy screen shots, and links that lead nowhere in particular.

Nothing that inspires trust in a program that can do unlimited damage to my system and files.

Re:

[cp.tar (871488)]

Unilke the Windows installer, at least you can download the source code and see for yourself exactly what it does.

Re:

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

(I know that is possible for a large number of specific Windows applications -through Wine-, but I meant everywhere, transparent, use Windows executables *as if* they were normal Linux binaries)

That already exists. It's called binfmt_misc [wikipedia.org].

Re: Huh?

[dylan_- (1661)]

It should be included. See if /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/ exists. If it doesn't, ask in your distro's forums. If it does, maybe just ask in your distro's forums if there's a gui for setting it up! :) But, if you really want to command-line it, next step is check if /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/register exists. If not try:

mount -t binfmt_misc none /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc

and then check again if the "register" file exists. If it doesn't...something's wrong. If it does, then you can add entries like the wikipedia article says. So, you can "cd /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc" and then add a line to "register" of the form :name:type:offset:magic:mask:interpreter:

Here's an example for Windows applications, using Wine.

cd /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc
echo ':Windows:M::MZ::/usr/bin/wine:' > register

Which has:
name = Windows
type = M (use the magic number, rather than "E" which means use the extension)
offset = just left blank
magic = MZ (magic number for Windows executables, if you'd used "E" previous, you'd put "exe" here)
mask = left blank
interpreter = /usr/bin/wine (full path to wherever the "wine" program is)

Now you can run Windows apps just by typing their name, like any Linux program. In fact, since we used the magic number rather than the extension, you could remove the .exe extension and it would still run fine.

You'd probably want to put this in a startup script, or something :)

ld-windows.so.2

[tepples (727027)]

(I know that is possible for a large number of specific Windows applications -through Wine-, but I meant everywhere, transparent, use Windows executables *as if* they were normal Linux binaries)

That would require a bit of kernel-level support, but it appears straightforward. The execve [die.net] system call would detect PE binaries (whose data starts with MZ), and then it would use wine to load the executable, in much the same way that it uses /lib/ld-linux.so.2 to load ELF binaries. Wine Traffic 125 [kerneltraffic.org] states that some Linux distributions already do this (or at least have done this at some time).

Re:Huh?

[Achoi77 (669484)]

I'm assuming based on the screenshots [goodbye-microsoft.com], it's a little windows app that begins the debian install process. Functionally the Debian ISO it would be analagous to a 'windows upgrade' CD.

But that's my guess

Re:

[gardyloo (512791)]

Functionally the Debian ISO it would be analagous to a 'windows upgrade' CD.

Blasphemer!

Re:Huh?

[by Anonymous Coward]

It goes much further than just starting the installer. win32-loader is a boot loader that can start a Linux distro from a few files on your (Windows) partition, so Windows users can enjoy the benefits of a fully functional Linux installation without having to repartition their drives, or being unable to boot Windows. So it's really a very easy way to install Linux for dedicated Windows users.

Re:

[JesterXXV (680142)]

Seriously, what the hell is the point of editors if this shit doesn't get explained? Ten percent of the summaries simply invoke confusion on my part because nobody bothers to give any background, or even just link to an explanation.

Re:Huh?

[asphaltjesus (978804)]

The Win32 loader is a new feature in the Debian installation CD. It makes it even easier to install Debian.

The installation of Debian may be a challenge for some who are afraid of changing the disk boot order in bios. Since bios menus vary, it's practically impossible to make good documentation about getting a CD to boot when it doesn't by default. More subtly, it addresses that weird fear that windows really isn't going away when you install Debian. Personally, I think the distro will be more popular now that the installation cd stops dropping you on a command line where you had to figure out what to type to start the installation process.

FYI: Debian's graphical installer is way, way ahead of the ubuntu installer u-bug-quity in terms of features and functionality. This is one of the many great things going on in Debian right now.

Re:

[gardyloo (512791)]

More subtly, it addresses that weird fear that windows really isn't going away when you install Debian.

I love that wording.

Re:

[rbochan (827946)]

See an explanation here [slashdot.org].

the win32 debian package

[wizardforce (1005805)]

Since none of the links in the story explain what the win32-loader is, can anyone explain what it does?

Your wish is google's command
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/utils/win32-loader [debian.org]

Re:the win32 debian package

[frinkacheese (790787)]

Now it just needs to be intergrated into a virus/worm the the whole windows world will be converted!

Re:the win32 debian package

[bcrowell (177657)]

So in practical terms, does this mean that they can install Debian on a Windows box without having to burn a CD? That could be useful on systems that don't have a CD burner, and could also be easier in terms of cutting down on the number of steps, and eliminating the need to own CD-writing software. It would be totally cool to have an Ubuntu installer that you could download and double-click on, and that would automatically resize your partitions and leave you with a double-boot system; I think there would be a *lot* of people I could convince to try Linux if it was that easy. Although the normal Ubuntu install CD (not the alternate install) already has a live CD feature so you can run Linux without installing it, I've always hesitated to suggest to people that they try Linux from a live CD, because the performance is so horrible that I'm afraid they'll get a bad impression. Of course a live CD can be useful if you want to find out how much of your hardware is supported. Realistically, I think the main obstacle these days for someone wanting to install Linux isn't the need to burn a CD and boot from it, it's issues with (a) printing, wifi, and winmodems, and (b) being committed to file formats that are only supported on Windows.

EULA

[thegnu (557446)]

Everyone remember to click right through the EULA like they do in the instructional video, or it won't work. :)

Well that's a bummer.

[kwabbles (259554)]

I don't have any Windows machines to test it out on.

Will this work in Wine? :)

Seriously though - nice work, guys.

Just ran the installer

[ZOMFF (1011277)]

Ran the win32 loader on a test-VM here at work. Pretty quick and painless, 4-5 prompts, 45 seconds of downloading, a reboot and debian was installing. However it was interesting to note that administrative privileges on the Win32 OS are not required. Not that big of a deal for most users, but could prove troublesome in some environments (Corporate, etc).

Re:

[value_added (719364)]

Ran the win32 loader on a test-VM here at work. Pretty quick and painless, 4-5 prompts, 45 seconds of downloading, a reboot and debian was installing.

Maybe I don't get it, but isn't that what you'd get out of a typical PXE boot/NFS install?

Re:

[r3m0t (626466)]

Yes, if your motherboard supports network boot and you have a computer to store the boot image and you are able to change the boot order of your computer.

None of which is required for this.

So many options there.

[marcello_dl (667940)]

- Linux on vmware or equivalent
- wubi style installations on a windows partition http://wubi-installer.org/ [wubi-installer.org]
- USB bootable stick
- this new debian installer
- live cds and cd installers
- network

One might find the debian installer useful in those cases where the keyboard is locked on startup of the live cd, which prevents to choose one grub option. I guess it's an OS vs. BIOS issue at reboot, sometime it helps to reboot after a brief disconnection of the pc from power/battery.

Oh wait
- floppies

I recently had to

I still prefer my method

[boudie2 (1134233)]

Mr. Windows partition, meet Mr. fdisk.

Re:

[gnuman99 (746007)]

You're too kind. I just use,

Mr. Windows partition, meet Mr. dd and Mr. /dev/zero

My first thought is virus

[ACMENEWSLLC (940904)]

My first thought following the link is that this is a virus. When I follow a link that says "Good bye Windows" which wants to launch an .EXE with no explanation, what else would I think?

I run Ubuntu in VMware. I thought from the article that perhaps I could run Windows programs inside Linux with this. Another WINE.

Not new?

[BitZtream (692029)]

My first linux experience was booting to it from windows, using slackware, to install into a directory on my drive. Didn't require any partitioning as it used fat and ran on top of that with various hacks to make everything work in a linux friendly fasion. You could start windows, then just run an exe to switch to linux. Of course switching back required a normal reboot, but it certainly made 'trying' linux a easy thing to do. If you didn't like it you just deleted the directory you installed linux into. This was in 1995, give or take a year or so.

Why is this suddenly supposed to be impressive or new? Surely there was a reason that this sort of thing went away, why is it coming back now if it didn't work then?

Re:

[LinuxGeek (6139)]

Yup, including everyone running Ubuntu like me.

Re:

[deftcoder (1090261)]

But, more specifically, you're running Debian Sid, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Ubuntu seems to have done a pretty good job of stabilizing Sid for the everyday user.

Once they implement LVM/volume encryption into the Ubuntu installer, I may consider using it on my desktop at home. I want /home encrypted at the very least because that's where irssi/gaim logs are stored, and I'd rather not have a malicious person with physical access to my machine be able to get those logs. (short of rootkitting th

Re:

[petermgreen (876956)]

Ubuntu does import a lot of stuff from debian sid but they also package a lot of stuff themselves nowadays.

From what I can gather sid isn't too bad most of the time anyway it's just every so often big upgrades come through and break stuff.

Re:What?

[Hatta (162192)]

Sid ain't so bad. The system itself is quite stable. What's not is the package repository. Once in a while a large update will present some conflicts in dependency resolution. This will prevent you from completing the update until it's fixed in the repository, but it leaves your system in a usable state. Not really a big deal. For most purposes Sid is an excellent choice. I wouldn't put it on a production server however.

Re:

[pintpusher (854001)]

But, more specifically, you're running Debian Sid, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Ubuntu seems to have done a pretty good job of stabilizing Sid for the everyday user.

plugwash already said it, but I've got to reiterate it a little more emphatically. The reality of sid is way better than its reputation. There are some mis-conceptions about testing and sid:

1) sid is a horrible monster that breaks all the time -- this is just not true. Sure, parts of it break from time to time, but for a cutting edge desktop, its great -- lots of current packages that mostly work all the time. You do have to be a little cautious with the upgrades, but it doesn't take much work; a little ju

Re:What?

[cortana (588495)]

That's why it's best to have both testing and unstable in your sources.list; but to pin unstable to a lower priority than testing.

$ apt-cache policy git-core
git-core:
  Installed: 1:1.5.2.4-1 0
  Candidate: 1:1.5.2.4-1 0
  Version table:
    1:1.5.3.1-1 0
        520 http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ unstable/main Packages
  *** 1:1.5.2.4-1 0
        530 http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ lenny/main Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

In this case, if for some reason git-core was broken in testing, I could easily upgrade it to the version from unstable with a command such as aptitude install -t unstable git-core. But if I installed git-core without the -t argument, the version from testing would have been chosen.

Re:What?

[Trigun (685027)]

He must be married.

No no no

[A nonymous Coward (7548)]

He must be married.

This is slashdot you inconsiderate fool.

No no no to your "No no no"

[Mark_in_Brazil (537925)]

He must be married.

This is slashdot you inconsiderate fool.

Um... this is Slashdot. Here we use a slightly different term, you insensitive clod!

Re:

[johnw (3725)]

Young people today! They don't know they're born.

Now when I started using Slashdot we had to walk both ways in the snow,.*()^(^&%*%^$
NO CARRIER

Re:

[Paul Crowley (837)]

Never start this game - you always get trumped :-)

*waits*

May seem crazy - but here are my reasons

[walterbyrd (182728)]

1) Debian's net install download is under 200mb. I don't have to download, install, and un-install a lot of cruft that I don't want.

2) With debian, I upgrade as I go. I don't worry about the six-month goofy name release. I install debian once.

3) Debian is indifferent to which WM/DE you use. For all debian cares, you don't have to run any GUI. Don't even install X11, it's all the same to debian. And you don't need a different *untu, or whatever, to use a differnt GUI. I happen to use IceWM.

4) IMO, Debian has

Re:

[suv4x4 (956391)]

For an organization that dislikes Microsoft Corporation and the platforms distributed by them, they seem to spend an aweful lot of time developing software on or for it. [...] With such hypocracy, maybe they can join forces with the Global Warming crowd...

That makes as much sense as calling it a hypocrisy that creating cure against illness require that you have ill subjects to test on.

"apt-get hell"

[Filter (6719)]

>>Who would want to install Debian anyway...? (Score:1)

>> by aswalkeraus (563276) Alter Relationship on Thursday September 13, @11:07AM (#20588309)

>>Seriously.... apt-get hell awaits, ... be afraid, very afraid!

Thats the first time I heard that expression, not a total surprise I guess; google says:

Results 1 - 10 of about 558 for "apt-get hell". (0.30 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 16,000 for "rpm hell". (0.12 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 208,000 for "dll hell". (0.07 seconds)

btw. se