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Dell Refuses to Sell Ubuntu to Business
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Jun 20, 2007 07:53 AM
from the now-that's-just-weird dept.
from the now-that's-just-weird dept.
An anonymous reader writes "I had a surreal experience with Dell today.
My boss asked me to order a new computer for our small, non-profit business. Wanting to support Dell in their decision to sell computers with Ubuntu installed, I decided to order one.
First, I talked to a small business representative, who informed me that I could not order one of the Ubuntu-based computers through the small business department. I had to go through the "home and home office" department.
I called the Home office department. I asked the representative if I could buy one of the ubuntu computers for my company. She said (and I quote), "these Dell computers are designed for personal use only, as long as you use it for personal use, you can purchase one."
So I lied and said I would....
Next, I tried to buy it on our business credit card. They would have none of that. She told me that I had to buy it through a personal card. Now, as a non-profit, our business does not pay sales tax (10% in Tennessee). Had I bought it with my own card, I would have had to pay tax (~$90), which my company would not have reimbursed me for. So.....no Dell today."
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So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:So... (Score:5, Informative)
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System76 (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:System76 (Score:5, Informative)
I tried configuring a computer on system76 and Dell, and when you put together comparable machines, the system76 one is several hundred dollars more expensive.
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Re:System76 (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:System76 (Score:5, Interesting)
I ordered my laptop without checking the screen resolution (a big no-no, I know, but it just didn't occur to me). So when I got it, I was surprised to find that my max resolution was 1280x960.
I called Dell's customer service to ask if I could return it and purchase a laptop with a higher screen resolution (1680x1050, the highest they offer on a 15" laptop). Obviously, I was expecting to pay the difference in price, or get the first purchase refunded and then pay the second purchase price.
The lady I spoke with said she'd see what she could do and call me back.
She called the next morning saying she arranged an unlike exchange - Not only did she get the laptop exchanged for free (So I got a $100 upgrade for free), I was able to keep the first laptop until I recieved the second one so I didn't have to go a week or so without a computer.
So... Not *all* Dell Customer Service stories are horror.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://system76.com/
Custom Linux laptops.
http://www.penguincomputing.com/
Linux servers and clusters.
Dell's choice to not sell to businesses should give these guys a fair boost in sales.
Parent
Probably a licensing issue (Score:4, Interesting)
I am pretty impressed with Dell for doing this - it is worth it to live with a home PC even though the support sucks and it is harder to purchase.
Parent
Re:Seems unlikely (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes they are pulling these stunts every single day. Go to any medium-to-enterprise sized business that has more than one SQL Server. Ah, you thought they really paid that 35000 license per server? Well, yes, unless they agree not to use Linux or MySQL.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)
Do they not allow that anymore?
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Home and Business support are different groups (Score:5, Insightful)
Dell is doing exactly what you recommend, they do not want to offer half-assed support to businesses so they do not sell it to businesses. Keep in mind that Dell has completely different support teams for home and business. The business side will take a much longer time to train up on Linux than the home side, more variations and usage patterns. Also keep in mind that the economics/profitability of Linux is entirely different for home vs business. Home is probably more likely to just go with a canned configuration, business more likely to customize the Linux installation. Ubuntu should have been a clue that this was home centric.
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Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Not What He Wants (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Apple PC's use the same hard drives as Dell, IBM, HP, and home built computers
3) Businesses that standardize on Windows don't want Apple PC's. They don't want to dual boot user workstations, and they don't want to deal with the extra complexity. They also don't want to pay those prices for the name Apple, like consumers do. The Apple notebooks aren't as overpriced as the Mac Pro, but they aren't an inexpensive option.
4) Dell's business support is pretty good.
5) He wants to buy a machine, with a free OS, without the big fuss. A Mac + BootCamp + Ubuntu + unsupported = Not What He Wants.
Macintoshes aren't always the solution. Get over it.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
The keyboard on the laptop (Pangolin Value) is not as good as my IBM work laptop, but not bad. The display is great though, which is what I care about most.
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Re:So... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I'm sure Apple will graciously let you replace Mac OS with a Mac-compatible Linux. Just like Dell will let you replace Windows with Linux.
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Re:So... (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank you for the deliberately patronising lesson, but I'm well aware of how Apple work, and your assertion that they're a hardware business is questionable. Why? Because although they may make their money on the hardware, that same hardware is nowadays near-identical to generic x86 PCs and the reason people buy it is so it can run the Mac OS.
Disagree? I'd be interested to find out whether your average Mac fanatic- if forced to- would rather use Mac OS on a half-decent generic PC or Windows running on Mac hardware.
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Why dell does this (Score:5, Insightful)
Now as for why not accept the business credit card on the consumer web site. Well that has nothing to do with this being a linux machine. That's just their policy in general. I'm sure they'd love to make an exception for linux machines, except that the market is so tiny why bother to have policy exceptions. People would exploit them and pretty soon you'd have businesses buying the $399 consumer entry-level dells rather than the business class machines then turning around and getting angry when they get outsourced tech support.
Parent
Employee Gift (Score:5, Insightful)
"Its Mary's 30th year with the organization, we want to do something special for her."
Buy the old school Open Source systems (Score:5, Informative)
I can list the millions of reasons why they only want to sell it as "personal use". Remember, Dell (and any other PC company) is still a business designed to make money and if they cannot please everyone all of the time, oh well.
Re:Buy the old school Open Source systems (Score:5, Informative)
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Probably Red-Tape (Score:4, Insightful)
Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence. Doesn't make this any less annoying though !
Re:Probably Red-Tape (Score:4, Interesting)
I loath Microsoft, but I understand where Dell is coming from with their lack of support for Ubuntu, it's just not financially viable to train agents to support it. They have to protect the stockholders first and customers come second. I disapprove of this system, but that's a rant for another thread. I see a day in the distant future where Dell will slowly begin expanding it's Ubuntu selection and support. But i think it will be a long long time, and people complaining about how poorly they are doing now is only going to discourage their effort.
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Re:Probably Red-Tape (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Probably Red-Tape (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Probably Red-Tape (Score:4, Interesting)
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You're all missing the point (Score:4, Funny)
I can see (Score:4, Interesting)
I can see why they might want to sell different products in their different "channels", presumably they have different support staff for each one and not all are trained for all products.
I can't see why they won't accept a business card for an item purchased in the "home / home office" section though.
FreeDOS or Red Hat available on Small Business (Score:4, Interesting)
I would wager if you talked to the Small Business sales rep again you could still purchase an nSeries system with FreeDOS on it or you can purchase a Precision Workstation with Red Hat Linux. Simply go to www.dell.com/nseries.
Re:FreeDOS or Red Hat available on Small Business (Score:4, Insightful)
www.dell.com/linux [dell.com] still works too, and you can see that they have links to "dell and novell, dell and red hat, dell and ubuntu" as well as "Workstations for Office" and "FreeDOS Desktops for Office", among others. So, I understand that the point of the article was "i wanted to support Dell's decision to sell Ubuntu", but if the end goal was simply to have a Dell system that shipped with Linux then the guy simply missed all of the options that are there.
I still don't think there is anyway to find that page without directly going to dell.com/linux, which is sad.
Parent
Monty Python: Spam Skit (Score:4, Funny)
Dell: "You can't have it."
Customer: "Why not?"
Dell: "Well it wouldn't be a Dell with Ubuntu now wou'it?..."
Dell is speaking out of both sides of it's mouth (Score:5, Insightful)
What this basically means is that LINUX is no further ahead at the end of the day.
Re:Dell is speaking out of both sides of it's mout (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Dell is speaking out of both sides of it's mout (Score:5, Insightful)
The full list of supported linux can be found here [dell.com]. Just because one guy wants to buy one machine that doesn't come with Ubuntu, everyone is up in arms. Dell never claimed that they were going to offer it on every machine. They're damn careful what they offer for business machines in general, and you can always get a business class machine with no OS.
Buncha fricking sheep. Dell's making a good effort on linux.
Parent
And you quit? (Score:5, Informative)
Thats the tactic I use. You always run into stubborn people in the service industry, but 9 times out of 10, the next person you reach won't care either way and will process your transaction just fine.
I had a similar experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I looked at the specs for the Ubuntu laptop. 6 pounds! Holy crap, no way in hell I'm lugging that around. My current Dell laptop is under 3lbs. I brought up the page for Dells smallest laptop and wanted to compare the hardware to their Ubuntu one. I buy under government/higher-ed. Guess what...no mention of Ubuntu as an OS option in that category. Looks like it's only available in the Home section.
Ho hum, back to the old fashioned way. Checked for wifi support before I bought the littlest one, paid the MS tax, and kept my fingers crossed.
Dell's Ubuntu option is a nice idea, but restricting it to a single Laptop isn't all that engaging.
Dell is not first and not unique (Score:4, Interesting)
Fuddy fuddy fud fud. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't buy Ubuntu on one of those, and you can't buy windows xp either. Clearly Dell views Ubuntu as "not ready for the server" and is unwilling to put it on a server class machine. You can still buy the machine with no OS, and add Ubuntu yourself.
Re:Fuddy fuddy fud fud. (Score:4, Informative)
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Dell is in some serious trouble. (Score:5, Insightful)
-jcr
GPL = no commercial use (Score:5, Informative)
I know, the subject is simply not true. But this the perception out there nonetheless...
My recent surreal experience went like that (talking to sysadmins in a giant financial company, with thousands of Unix-servers):
How do you like that?
Re:Why go with Dell? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. Along with pretty much any nationality you can think of. We're all dumb.
If Dell won't sell one particular configuration through one particular channel, there'll be a reason for it. More likely than not, it's not profitable for them to do so - it'll cost them more to do you a special than they'll make back in profit.
If that's the case, they don't want your money - they may just as well mail you a check/cheque for the difference and call it quits. They're hardly likely to do that now are they?
I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who complain when a company won't take their cash. If they won't take it, they don't want it and your complaining isn't going to do anything about it.
Anyway, allow me to climb down off my hobby-horse. If you want to make Dell pay, buy a normal Windows-ified PC and claim the money back as per the EULA.
So, don't complain - you have no right to complain. However, what you do have is a choice. Use it.
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Re:Why go with Dell? (Score:5, Interesting)
Thus I feel vaguely insulted every time someone calls me a consumer.
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Re:Why go with Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, I don't have to buy for them, but I sure as hell don't have to hold back my "they're stupid monkey fucking gutter slut" comments, either.
Plus, it's nice to know for the rest of us. It's nice to know what businesses to avoid if the situation ever comes up.
It's pretty pathetic that you complain about the right to free speech. American Consumers are dumb? I'd say the idiot who bitches about free speech is dumb. But hey, far be it from me to stop you. Even retards are allowed to get their say in. Freedom of speech and all.
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Re:GPL infringement? (Score:5, Informative)
"Nice Try. But Dell's not just selling you Ubuntu, its also selling you the computer on which you're running it. And they *can* place additional restrictions on the hardware."
No they can't. It has nothing to do with the gpl, and everything to do with consumer protection laws (even business purchases are covered in many jurisdictions by the implied warranty of fitness for use). Unless the hardware comes with a per-seat or per-user license, which is not the case here, they cannot tell you how to use it. All they can do is refuse warranty support if its been abused. That is their SOLE option/recourse.
Buy the damn thing and get a refund on the Windows license. The instructions have been posted on the net, including here on slashdot, often enough ... (and tag another $100 onto your claim, for wasted time, since they refused to sell you one without a Windows license, and take them to small claims court for the extra $100).
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You're kidding, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, its an agreement with RedHat (Score:4, Interesting)
It is quite obvious that Dell has a contractual agreement with RedHat that the only Linux that Dell will sell to business customers is RedHat, probably in exchange for RedHat kicking in support for those systems. They legally could NOT sell Ubuntu to this guy as a business, because it would have been a breach of contract with RedHat.
Don't want to pay the Microsoft tax and support Dell in its efforts to support Linux? Great! Buy a RedHat-based Linux workstation instead, then do what you want with it.
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Re:Same thing at my Uni (Score:5, Interesting)
Did they insist on you shutting down a production server to run their stupid diagnostics tool when you called in a bad disk?
They did this to us a few years ago. They kept on refusing to send a replacement disk, insisting on *proof* that the disk was indeed bad. The diagnostics software they wanted us to use required us to shut down the server, which would have been extremely disruptive. Eventually we just said forget it, called back, and got a different rep who eventually finally caved and sent us the disk.
Granted, this was years ago, and their service has since improved, but that was a pretty brain-dead policy to have even back then.
-Z
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