Slashdot Log In
Ubuntu Linux Validates As Genuine Windows
Posted by
kdawson
on Sun Jun 17, 2007 07:20 PM
from the it-was-the-wine-talking dept.
from the it-was-the-wine-talking dept.
bobbocanfly writes "Another crack in the Windows Genuine Advantage wall. A user at UbuntuForums.org managed to validate an Ubuntu installation as a genuine copy of Microsoft Windows and get to the download page of Windows Defender, using IE4Linux and Wine. (Here is an OGG video of the process.) Along with the advancement of LiveCD technology, this could spell the end of Microsoft's control over who gets their updates."
Related Stories
[+]
Technology: Windows Genuine Advantage Gets More Lenient 228 comments
Troglodyte writes in with word that Microsoft is revamping its Windows Genuine Advantage program so that it labels fewer users pirates. WGA now has a third category besides "genuine and "not genuine," called "not sure." Quoting: "[I]t's quite obvious what is going on here: Microsoft has added 'not sure' as a way of cutting down on the number of false positives associated with WGA. As many as one in five PCs were failing WGA checks, but this new setting should both reduce this and give Microsoft the chance to investigate further the kinds of things that are landing folks in the 'not sure' category."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Next up: "Please enter your credit card number" - Windows Update.
I hope so (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
I hope so-Fruit juice. (Score:3, Funny)
Or Apple. Which makes ME smile even more.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
But, for someone that isn't entrenched in hardware, I can see the option.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or Apple. Which makes ME smile even more.
But should't Apple be most Linux fans' nightmare?
1) Proprietary system that is only in small part, OSS
2) Standard PC hardware with fancy plastic that is much more overpriced than the same hardware minus fancy plastic
3) A OS that is more expensive over it's life that even Winblows - and Apple CURRENTLY charges serious coin for major OS updates
4) A secure coding and patch release methodology that is *years* behind MS
5) Apple regularly lies about the performance capabilities of its' machines
6) Apple u
Re:I hope so-Fruit juice. (Score:5, Insightful)
"2) Standard PC hardware with fancy plastic that is much more overpriced than the same hardware minus fancy plastic" You're going by old info. You can configure a Dell and an Apple with the same specs and the prices are quite close.
"3) A OS that is more expensive over it's life that even Winblows - and Apple CURRENTLY charges serious coin for major OS updates" $129 is serious coin? And remember, this is for the MAJOR updates. Also, they're lax on the DRM, since you usually have to have the hardware to run the OS.
"4) A secure coding and patch release methodology that is *years* behind MS" Patch and release when it's found, not once a month?
"5) Apple regularly lies about the performance capabilities of its' machines" For example? I'd love to see some examples here.
"6) Apple uses Solaris and Windows (Apple china ran it until 03) because of their superior stability compared to OS X." Proof please.
All in all, you're arguing against the Apple that no longer exists.
Parent
To sum up - Microsoft just wants your money (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My vote is on Google!
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as respecting the EULA, I wonder if it's even a valid contract. As I understand it, most contracts require both parties agree to the terms BEFORE the transaction (purchasing the software) takes place.
Parent
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why is it now necessary for my computer to stay up to date?
Why do you think that's ok?
Why?
--Jimmy
Parent
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
"I guess they are saying your computer is as up to date as they are going to make it without WGA.
In essence, they terminated your support for updates and you renewed it by doing the WGA thing. And no, I am not saying it is right. But even if you purchase the full version, you only get so much free support. the rest is basically MS acting as if they are doing you a favor. I don't remember anything in the license or on the box about updates being provided.
They really don't have a choice - either FIX the defective OS via patches or face a class-action suit for selling a grolssly defective product. Don't kid yourself - the only person who benefits from Microsoft's actions is Microsoft. Limited warranties don't add to your rights, they take away from them. Most jurisdictions have laws that state that a purchase has to be useful for its intended purpose for a reasonable amount of time. 20 seconds between connecting to the net and getting p0wned is not "reasonable" - especially when there are free OS available that don't have these defects.
Parent
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have complete control of my computer in every way by virtue of the fact that I *own* it. Putting Microsoft software on that piece of hardware removes control from me of my own computer. I also have to give up the right to modify (disassemble, etc) Microsoft's code once it is on my computer. Compare that to GPL'd software which generally are of the purpose to enable and empower my freedom to use my own hardware.
So your statement is based on the fallacy that the MS EULA or TOS serves the same purpose as the GPL. It does not.
Parent
Re:Rights matter. (Score:4, Funny)
Which reminds me of this comic strip [tiraecol.net].
Parent
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyhow, any person that believes the GPL should be respected (as I do) also needs to respect the TOS that MS sets forth.
Agreeing to the GPL gives you more rights than you would otherwise have had. Agreeing to the MS TOS gives you less rights than you would otherwise have had.
That's a fairly significant difference.
Parent
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
On M$'s end, they're a business. If you don't give them money, why do you think they should be giving you free updates? You're not a customer, you're not going to be a customer, so it's only ever so slightly in their interest to keep you on the platform. Do you realistically think the third party software is going to disappear just because windows doesn't provide updates to people who don't pay?
On the pirate's end, who cares? When was the last update that was worth downloading?
Parent
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you seriously complaining because your illegal software doesn't function correctly?
Parent
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, yes we are... but we only complain about our illegal microsoft software not functioning correctly around slashdot. Any other illegal software not functioning is more or less ok
Parent
Re:Ubuntu Meme (Score:4, Interesting)
feel free to berate me on not including the distro of your choice, (but add your own findings if you have any...
Parent
Re:Ubuntu Meme (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.google.com/trends?q=dog%2C+cat&ctab=0&
This is more shocking, dogs and cats living together!! (but dogs still more popular)
Parent
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)
I've often wondered what would have happened if Windows had never been, if some other OS (say a Unix variant of some kind, or perhaps one of the other OSes that Microsoft eclipsed) had become dominant, one that was fundamentally more secure than Windows. We might never have seen the billions of dollars being lost to spam and armies of rooted Windows boxes. Anyway you look at it, Microsoft has much for which to atone, and doing what it can to keep Windows users from being pwned the minute they jack in their systems or try to read an email isn't asking for much.
Parent
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Guess again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps if MS would roll out new versions of its OS more often than once every 5 years this wouldn't be such a problem...
"This could spell the end of Microsoft's control"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please. They'll update the security.
Will there eventually be another way around? Yes. Of course.
Next story please.
Re:"This could spell the end of Microsoft's contro (Score:5, Informative)
For one thing, WGA is supposed to check Product key, PC manufacturer, Windows version, PID/SID, BIOS information, BIOS MD5 Checksum, Language setting and version, and Hard drive serial number, among other things.
Since your winver and product key don't technically exist (I believe the former comes up as Win 98), I don't see how WGA gets a false positive in this case (which means it's also going to be an easy bug to track down).
But, theoretically, since xubuntu doesn't need a 'valid' key, it may throw random numbers out (which would be very unlikely to trip the 'pirated' check, but would mean WGA doesn't check if your key is valid.
Parent
Re:"This could spell the end of Microsoft's contro (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing that WGA is set to return "genuine" if it is unable to retrieve the appropriate information. For example, it might try 5 times to get the product key, but the system always gives it an error since it doesn't actually have a product key. Since they can't get enough information to determine if you are genuine or not, they err on the side of caution and say you are genuine, even though they can't tell.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Woah... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait...
Re:Woah... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Dual boot machine? (Score:4, Interesting)
WGA has become pretty sophisticated this year, as recently has OGA. I strongly suspect that the observed behavior is by design, though Microsoft may now choose to change it.
Re:Dual boot machine? (Score:5, Insightful)
It would surprise me.
For most intents and purposes Wine sandboxes applications from the rest of the machine reasonably effectively. For the WGA software to be able to detect a copy of Windows elsewhere on the machine it would have to be checking it was running under wine then taking deliberate measures to break out of the sandbox. It's possible, since wine is not a VM, but quite unlikely - after all, the entire idea of WGA is that Microsoft wants people downloading updates to be using them on a genuine copy of Windows. If you have Windows on the machine already, why would you be dual booting into Linux and running wine to access Windows Update? That would make no sense, and Microsoft making that possible by design would make even less sense.
Parent
This is bad for linux (Score:5, Insightful)
If everyone who ran pirated software used open source instead, our user base would be several times as it is now. And that would encourage hardware vendors to give us better support, which is the main thing we need now.
Uh, you can just use Windows 2000. (Score:3, Interesting)
I thought WGA... (Score:5, Insightful)
... was designed to find pirated versions of windows. Why would they care if a linux user can download the updates. He's not the target. It's the people and companies with fake copies and either don't know it or don't want to go through the trouble of downloading a version of each patch that the WGA step will get to buy Windows. So it probably worked to specs, and probably works via blacklisting rather than whitelisting (easier to disassemble a whitelist for one).
I know its bad form here to defend anything from M$, or announce that a story doesn't really mean their emminet death, but remember that WGA is just another step like serials designed to increase the geekiness or effort required for someone to pirate a copy.
Just like DRM. I mean, you can always use a professional quality camera to capture the movie, and put each output speaker in an anachoic chamber with its own high quality mike. The point of DRM and WGA is to make it hard enough that it's not worth saving the $10 (for bad movies) - $400 (for Vista Ultimate SuperDeluxe w. CoffeeMaker ) after all the effort.
Re:I thought WGA... (Score:5, Informative)
Please, for the love of god and all things holy, mod parent up!
I used to work at Microsoft. Posting anonymously for obvious reasons, so feel free to doubt what I'm about to tell you.
Parent is spot on. The purpose of WGA isn't to block all attempts to pirate Microsoft software. As we've seen with countless articles here on /., dedicated people will bypass WGA. People at Microsoft know this - come on!
WGA exists because unscrupulous PC manufacturers / PC builders will sell PCs with improperly licensed copies of Windows. i.e. they'll pay for one copy and install it on every computer they sell. Saves 'em what, something like $60 per computer? I forget the exact number of computers sold this way, but it's surprisingly high.
So the thought is: you (or your mom, or gramma) buy a PC from one of these guys, you find out that they sold you a computer with a bogus copy of Windows, and you no longer do business with them. And you tell your friends, and they don't do business with them.
As I said, feel free to think I'm lying to you. There are plenty of things to dig Microsoft about, but I'm afraid there's no delicious irony in an Ubuntu user validating their copy as Windows.
Parent
Re:I thought WGA... (Score:5, Insightful)
Other than that being able to validate as genuine windows doesn't mean anything. What's to stop these same manufacturers that MS is trying to stop from just using one of the many ways around WGA on each of the computers they sell or install at the office?
Honestly, I have my doubts that it's really that big of a problem. I can't imagine that happens much outside of mom and pop shops that aren't exactly selling thousands or even hundreds of new computers per day.
And the person who thought they legitimately paid for everything is stuck unable to get updates they may want and paid for unless they buy Windows again. Awesome.
While within their rights to do, it's stupid and only hurts the valid users in the end, which is really what most people's complaint is. Personally, I'm going to keep right on complaining about it.
Parent
And this would be good because? (Score:4, Interesting)
We complain that there is a MS tax. We complain that they hardsell licences. I would be very happy is Microsoft really had a way to limit the updates. Hell, even with Linux one *pays* for the updates in some distros, and there is nothing wrong with that. Plus, if piracy beneficts Microsoft - and it does - putting an end to it is all the better. Windows is "cheap" because many people are used to cracking all the software they have installed and then complaining about "there isn't a program in Linux/BSD that does *everything* I need and exactly the way I need".
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
MS has allowed this for AGES (Score:5, Informative)
MS is looking for copies of XP that are nongenuine. Think of it as a negative return check, not a positive return check. The fact that it passed means that MS is fairly certain you're not running a pirated copy of XP (which is correct), NOT that MS is fairly certain you're running a valid version of XP.
Windows Update alternative (Score:4, Informative)
My genuine copy (Score:4, Funny)
Embrace and extend language (Score:5, Insightful)
I know the intent is to find the nefarious PC sellers who buy one copy of XP and install it on every machine they sell, but I'm still getting the exact same sequence of bits on my hard drive in that case that I would have if the nefarious PC seller had actually bought a license for each computer he sold.
Fundamentally, it's an attempt to conflate information "property" with physical property in the minds of the public -- even though we know that a "non-genuine" copy of Windows is bit-identical and functionally identical to a "genuine" copy, MS wants people to think that a non-genuine copy has something wrong with it. There IS a legitimate concern about illegit copies that have been modified to include spyware/viruses/etc., but it's entirely possible for such a copy to pass as "genuine" since the software that validates "genuine"-ness won't always know about malicious software (especially if said software is specifically designed to hide from WGA...).
I'm not against copyright and licensing (I'm in favor of much shorter copyright durations, and yes, I produce copyrighted material for a living), but I AM against this attempt to abuse the language.
DMCA (Score:3, Insightful)
They
I am shocked! (Score:5, Funny)
Wine now WGA certified 1.0? (Score:4, Funny)
Ugh (Score:4, Funny)
Phillip.
Re:Or you know, (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
And what exactly IS the point... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Or you know, (Score:4, Funny)
On the same (?) topic, I ate a hamburger today.
Parent
Re:Pfft. So what? (Score:4, Informative)
Could be useful for people like my dad - he uses Linux for the internet stuff (and gimp) but boots in Windows (no internet connection for that) to use Excel etc. He doesn't want to expent the effort to keep Windows secure, but he might still want an update for a driver or something like that.
Parent