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Linspire Signs Patent Pact With MS
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu Jun 14, 2007 07:35 AM
from the devil's-sleeping-around dept.
from the devil's-sleeping-around dept.
RLiegh sends us to an AP article reporting that Linspire has signed a patent deal with Microsoft. The company, which started out life as "Lindows," joins a growing list of patent agreements reached between Microsoft and vendors. Linspire will be granted a license to use True Type Fonts and "various code" that would allow for Linspire users to use voice on Windows Live Messenger as well as the usual patent protection for Linspire's customers. In return, among other things, Linspire will make Microsoft's search engine the default search on PCs shipped with their OS. Kevin Carmony, the CEO for Linspire, approached Microsoft a year and a half ago, according to the article.
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Your Rights Online: Microsoft/Samsung Ink Patent Deal 131 comments
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Linspire Releases Controversial Version 6.0 202 comments
christian.einfeldt writes "Today, Linspire releases version 6.0, its first new GNU/Linux distro in more than two years. With version 6.0, Linspire is betting that its business model of including licenses for proprietary software and formats such as Quicktime, Windows Media Player, Flash, Real, and Microsoft OOXML will win enough market share among mainstream Apple and Microsoft users to offset the backlash from opponents of proprietary software and formats. Version 6.0 also includes the highly controversial Microsoft patent coverage that has incited wide-reaching negative press coverage in the Free Open Source Software press, forums and blogosphere. But from Linspire's perspective, it's all about those new GNU/Linux users. '"Today we continue the Linspire tradition by offering the choice of a better overall experience for users new to desktop Linux,'" said Larry Kettler, President and CEO of Linspire, Inc. "Linspire 6.0 further bridges the gap between open source and commercial software, combining the best from each into a single easy-to-use, familiar and productive operating system."'"
[+]
Linspire/Microsoft Agreement Useless to Users 155 comments
Stephen Samuel writes "Groklaw host PJ has dissected the 'patent peace' agreement between Linspire and Microsoft, and has determined that what Linspire agreed to is next to useless for many users. Essentially, under the agreement Linspire software is almost unusable: 'You can't share the software with others, pass it on with the patent promise, modify your own copy, or even use it for an "unauthorized" purpose, whatever that means in a software context. You must pay Linspire for the software, but then the "covenant" says to use Linux, you must also pay Microsoft. That payment doesn't cover upgrades. Linspire said it was absorbing the initial fees, but I don't know about upgrades. New functionality means you lose your coverage or presumably must pay again.'"
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Your Rights Online: Microsoft Excludes GPLv3 From Linspire Deal 342 comments
rs232 writes to tell us that Microsoft is excluding any software licensed under the new GPLv3 from their recent patent protection deal with Linspire. "Microsoft has since been treating GPLv3 software as though it were radioactive. 'Microsoft isn't a party to the GPLv3 license and none of its actions are to be misinterpreted as accepting status as a contracting party of GPLv3 or assuming any legal obligations under such license,' the company said in a statement released shortly after GPLv3 was published on June 29. In addition to excluding GPLv3 software from the Linspire deal, Microsoft recently said that it wouldn't distribute any GPLv3 software under its SUSE Linux alliance with Novell, even as it maintains in public statements that the antilawsuit provisions in the license have no legal weight. "
[+]
Mandriva Says No to Microsoft Linux Deal 150 comments
Kurtz'sKompund writes "French Linux vendor Mandriva said no to dealing with Microsoft on open source patents. They're the third Linux vendor in a week to do so, joining Red Hat and Ubuntu in the 'against' column. TechWorld reports that Mandriva's CEO echoed statements from other open source leaders, saying essentially 'we don't need to pay protection money to do our job.' From the article: 'Jonathan Eunice, an analyst at Illuminata, said Microsoft's deals with Xandros and Linspire don't have the same impact as they would if they had been made with a major Linux vendor such as Red Hat. "I think Microsoft is going to second-tier players, and they're cutting deals with them because they are softer targets," Eunice said.'"
[+]
Your Rights Online: Microsoft and LG Electronics Sign Linux Covenant 263 comments
rs232 wrote with a PC World link discussing another alliance between Microsoft and a vendor via Linux. The vendor this time around is electronics maker LG, and marks the fifth company to license unspecified patents relating to Linux or Linux devices from the OS giant. "'This agreement is focused only on exchange of patent rights,' said David Kaefer, general manager of IP licensing at Microsoft. 'The open-source elements of the deal do utilize a covenant model similar to the Xandros and Novell deals, but this deal is most similar to recent agreements with Samsung and Fuji Xerox.' Those deals were signed this year in April and March, respectively. Both covered general access to intellectual property contained in patent portfolios and included protection for customers using Linux-based software."
[+]
Xandros Reportedly Buys Out Linspire 153 comments
2muchcoffeeman writes "Former Linspire president and CEO Kevin Carmony — whose relationship with his former employer has turned acrimonious, to say the least — reported on his blog that Xandros and Linspire signed an agreement in principle for Xandros to buy Linspire June 19. Carmony includes a scan of the memo to Linspire shareholders announcing the deal, which requires the former Linspire company to change its name. According to the memo, the stockholders voted to change the company's name to Digital Cornerstone, Inc. Despite the wording of the Linspire memo to stockholders, this deal apparently came as a surprise to Carmony and other stockholders. Some here may remember that both Xandros and Linspire signed patent protection deals with Microsoft in 2007."
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Well isn't that special? (Score:5, Insightful)
Allow yourselves to be assimilated, and we will drop all litigation. Hell, we'll even let you call yourselves a "vendor".
Resistance is futile, indeed...
Re:Well isn't that special? (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand that these kind of small Linux vendors need to make money, but why are they signing up to this?
I can only think its cold hard cash talking. Both Linspire and Xandros have just signed their death warrants (Novell at least has other options).
Begun the Microsoft (Clone) wars has.
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Its because they can't attack Ubuntu directly ... (Score:5, Insightful)
- Ubuntu and Lindows have a deal regarding "click-n-run", etc., and that future Lindows distros will use Ubuntu as the base.
-
Microsoft can't attack Ubuntu directly
- So Microsoft attacks their partner.
No, there's no "... PROFITParent
Re:Its because they can't attack Ubuntu directly . (Score:4, Informative)
But more importantly look at the details of the deal. So far as I can tell, this stuff only covers the use of proprietary stuff with GPLed/third party offerings. Outside the idea of a GPLed program potentially using them, it won't effect the GPLv3 status at all _IF_ the agreement is specific in what code or IP the patent protection covers and that code isn't inside a GPLed program.
I think this might be another case of jumping the gun on too little details. The reaction to Novell's deal was way overblown and once the details were released, it appeared to no cover anything that would competing with microsoft blah blah blah. People said Novell got screwed. Well they did, by the GPL leaders who reacted over a bunch of misplaced hype. None of this was about the potentials of contaminating OSS. it is all about dealing with Microsoft. You don't even know the specfics of the deal and are accusing "Microsoft attacks" already.
At best, this just shows MS's effort to fracture the GPLv3. When enough companies need to stick around that projects will be forked or uninformed people implode over using the GPLv3 while having deals like this and become angry enough to make an ass of themselves it will be their doing. MS is likely attempting to do a divide and cause conflict within as their strategy of dealing with OSS and it is going to be highly successful.
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Re:Its because they can't attack Ubuntu directly . (Score:5, Insightful)
We need to completely drop any Linux vendor that signs a deal with Microsoft. Change distributions to a "clean" one, remove any currently installed software, and contact the vendor for refunds on any boxed software purchased through them. I don't expect anyone to get refunds, but the calls will serve as a reminder.
This is serious people.
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Re:Its because they can't attack Ubuntu directly . (Score:4, Interesting)
It appears that rights to use MS codecs was not unlimited and Linspire wanted to continue with that 'feature' of their distro. My guess is that alot of the motives behind this was the extension of the licensing for those codecs. Like in the Novell deal, Microsoft probably 'requires' the fake IP protection crap or else any other deal would fail or cost too much. It's typically how they operate.
How this will impact the Click-n-Run deal with Ubuntu will be something to look at since I'm sure Microsoft would not want Linspire to just hand out those codecs to just anybody.
I will warn others to not believe this is about Microsoft collecting fees from Linux. Microsoft runs by Windows and without Windows, they fall. Therefore, all this IP licensing stuff is about killing Linux or killing corporate use of Linux one way or another. They've shown before that they're willing to spend billions just to protect the Windows monopoly/gravy-train and Linux is a threat. IMO.
LoB
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Re:Well isn't that special? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Well isn't that special? (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who sells Linux
It'll be a cold day in h*ll before I ship a PC with Microsoft Search as the default.
---
http://www.xephi.co.uk/ [xephi.co.uk] for Linux without MS Search
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Now, let's see what Linspire was saying before... (Score:4, Informative)
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I want in! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The LInux business community... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The LInux business community... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even Ubuntu? I think you are wrong, but we will see, won't we.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The LInux business community... (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: (Score:3)
Cross-licensing in business is the norm and, if, like Linspire, you want a piece of home market, some accommodation with reality, the proprietary DVD codec, Windows 95% share, etc., is necessary.
Re:The LInux business community... (Score:5, Insightful)
A little perspective here, please.
* Novell sold out because, despite their purchases of Ximian & SuSE, they never really "got" Linux; they were just trying to shore up a rapidly dying Netware product while continuing business along the same paradigms that killed it. Witness the resulting exodus of several core SUSE developers, further reducing the company's understanding of Linux; frankly I've seen Novell Linux brands as almost defunct for some years now. (go on, flame away...)
* Xandros sold out because their market share and community was miniscule. They sought to steal Windows market share, but (unsurprisingly) didn't have the resource to tackle Redmond. Xandros are already defunct and starting to smell; they just don't know it yet. (go on, flame some more...)
* Linspire haven't really recovered since having their teeth pulled, and they really don't "get" the security issue. The whole distro is very much Kevin Carmony's baby, and seems to be very fluid while it tries to find a profitable niche. Ubuntu's just broken into the territory it was trying to win (i.e. preinstalled mainstream linux), so I think the distro will die soon. Strangely, though, I don't think that Linspire has sold out, exactly, it's following in its father's footsteps; it understands business, not OS, and is evolving into a kind of "software accessibility enabler". Personally I detest the proprietary shit its peddling, but Ubuntu's already proven there's a demand for that.
So MS has munched on the low-hanging fruit. Sad, but not unexpected; the old & weak are always the first to go in war & business. What remains is :
* Several hundred non-commercial distros, top of the list is Debian, the epitome of idealism.
* Ubuntu - very smart, idealistic, breaking into the mainstream.
* Redhat - very smart, idealistic, pwns the enterprise Linux sector and employs the majority of kernel hackers (and just ballsed up royally with its recent partnership - *Symantec*, for gods' sake! - but they should weather it ok).
* Mandriva - still kicking, playing interesting tunes on 3D desktop usability.
* Various other commercial appliance distros e.g. firewalls, Tivo, etc.
* One lone idealistic guy with who owns the damn trademark.
So let's not moan doom & gloom too early, eh?
Now, if someone rings tomorrow to tell me that Torvalds just sold Linux(tm), then you might have a point. But the *source* will still be out there & owned by the community that developed it. There is now a minimum level of code & application quality that proprietary software houses must meet; and while they don't, there will always be an underdog.
Best regards,
Conrad
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Re:The LInux business community... (Score:4, Informative)
Ubuntu went so far as to create a "restricted driver manager" that tells you when you're using binary drivers, why you shouldn't, and what you can do about it.
If you call this "peddling proprietary shit", then I don't think you understand more than one of those words.
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Shuttleworth interview: June 1st, 2007 (Score:4, Informative)
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O rly? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:O rly? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:O rly? (Score:4, Insightful)
All Microsoft is doing is going after the fringe Linux distros that have no real user base. These fringe players have nothing to lose. Now, if Ubuntu or Redhat/Fedora jump ship, then that will be news. Though I don't see it happening. Redhat has enough money to fight it out in court. Ubuntu is based where software patents are not valid so they don't have to worry.
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Is this really that bad of a situation? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Is this really that bad of a situation? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
e.g from the template header for GPL software: This program is free software; you can redistri
Re:Is this really that bad of a situation? (Score:4, Interesting)
From the current GPL3 draft, section 11:
A contributor's "essential patent claims" are all patent claims owned or controlled by the contributor, whether already acquired or hereafter acquired, that would be infringed by some manner, permitted by this License, of making, using, or selling its contributor version, but do not include claims that would be infringed only as a consequence of further modification of the contributor version. For purposes of this definition, "control" includes the right to grant patent sublicenses in a manner consistent with the requirements of this License.
Each contributor grants you a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free patent license under the contributor's essential patent claims, to make, use, sell, offer for sale, import and otherwise run, modify and propagate the contents of its contributor version.
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That's how they've always done business (Score:5, Interesting)
For instance, most companies lock down their computers. I can't even install quick time on ours - which means that unless it works with windows media, I don't visit the website. Many websites know that - so they don't use Quicktime formats. It's a neverending circle.
If I were google, I'd be thinking about doing the same thing in reverse. Get your office suite working and then begin package it free on every computer manufacturer that you can negotiate with.
What are you waiting for? (Score:5, Interesting)
Red Hat , Ubuntu please do the rest of the honours. I have no freaking idea what MS has in his pocket that all these companies have agreed to MS terms of so called *patent* protection.Hell yes, i am paranoid but that so only because MS is involved in all of these pacts, i am not at all comfortable taking the bullshit.
Why is Linux community silent on a whole? Only thing they can do is host a site called as showusthecode.com and challenging Mr Balmer. And MS responded by making one more Linux company its ally. Now i am really getting worried about my submitted code as GPL. Is this just me or something is really cooking up at Redmond?
Re:What are you waiting for? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why is Linux community silent on a whole?
Good god, man! Are you serious? The Linux community isn't silent about anything. Novell has experienced a backlash, and the CEO had to go so far as to address it publicly. That's not insignificant, in my mind.
Now i am really getting worried about my submitted code as GPL. Is this just me or something is really cooking up at Redmond?
I'm struggling with that, too. Trying to figure out how serious a concern this is. My one solace at the moment is that what we've really got is Microsoft managing to rope Novell, and then two bit players in the game. Xandros and Linspire? Microsoft isn't exactly taking down the titans of the Linux world.
They did get Novell, and I agree that's not small potatoes - but the general opinion really seems to be that as well as getting hosed, Novell also got conned by the boys from Redmond. In the fallout - RedHat specifically rebuffed Microsoft's public offer.
Many people have compared this to the SCO fud-fest that got going - and that actually seems to be a more apt analogy the further we go. A couple of small-frys have caved in -- in their own defence, they're not equipped for a battle with Microsoft, and we must assume these are businessmen and not fanboys.
I expect Microsoft will continue to pick off the small distros, trying to build some PR momentum before training their guns on the larger players in the Linux industry. Not dissimilar to SCO's approach.
What happens then, is what tells us what's really going on here...
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Dude, what the FAQ??? (Score:3, Funny)
I feel as if the world's been turned upside down.
Or maybe the true nature of computer businesses has been revealed. In the end, it's just a bunch of greedy b=$)/"%...
Oink oink [google.com].
Is Microsoft the new Styx? (Score:5, Funny)
That is, as long as I'm buying
it is a good thing (Score:4, Interesting)
Divide and conquer (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm very curious what will happen with these agreements with Novell, Xandros and now Linspire when gpl v3 arrives. And don't forget, the list of companies signing agreements with Microsoft will keep on growing.
But it seems these companies do not handle in the best interest of the community anymore, but only to serve their paying customers.
Greed, anyone?
Or ... Embrace, Extend, Extinguish? (Score:4, Interesting)
YESSSS! Give that customer another mod point.
But rather than trying to "divide and conquer" the FOSS community, I'd suggest it's a new chapter in Microsoft's "embrace, extend, extinguish" strategy. Getting these companies to sign agreements covers the "embrace" part. The "extend" part is, perhaps, the will-not-sue covenant: it offers an extra warm/fuzzy feeling for the customer.
I'm very curious what will happen with these agreements with Novell, Xandros and now Linspire when gpl v3 arrives.
Maybe this is the "extinguish" part. AFAIK, the companies who have signed the agreements could no longer include updated versions of code that has gone to GPL3. So
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Re:Divide and conquer (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft is doing what they have always done. Made deals with other companies that in the long run, put Microsoft on top and kills the other company (if possible). IBM and Red Hat won't play this game, they are in business to prosper for a long time. Novel was stupid, and made a bad deal...they may yet survive it. It wont be the first mistake they have survived. That is why Microsoft got them in on the deal first. If these small frys had signed up first. Novel would have known it's a trap and not done the deal. So Novel survives, and all these dumb little you have to buy me Linux distros go bye bye. Somehow the Linux community will survive.
It is good that the business world has recognized the value of Linux. But Linux is not just composed of companies who have paid programmers to add things they need to GNU/Linux. It is made up of programmers who for their own reasons, want to work on this and add stuff to GNU/Linux. It is also world wide, so even these shenanigans in the US will not halt linux from moving on.
Who knows, even if Microsofts wet dream were to come through, and you could not sell a linux distro in the US, and it could not be used in a business environment. People in the US would still download, and help improve Linux.
Linux is not going away. The community will still be here, and it will still grow. Also, I think other countries like China or developing thrid world nations will standardize on it which would force readoption of Linux in the US at some point.
Truthfully, Eve has already bitten the apple. Linux is here to stay in the US. The military does not want to see it go away. Large companies, like Google or banks, rely on it and would not want to see it go away. IBM, who has the power to fight on this issue wants linux as well.
In the meantime we just have to wait and see how this plays out. I hope it is more of a XBox/Xbox 2, we loose money on every sale but will make it up on volume decision from Microsoft. Instead of the Micosoft of the Netscape/Wordperfect era.
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Re:Divide and conquer (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure they will talk and talk, but they wont actually do anything. They have as much to lose from ridiculous software patents as anyone else. If microsoft start suing people over patents, then a large number of companies will start suing them back, including big companies like ibm and sun, which could have significant impact upon microsoft's products.
The biggest risk, comes from the small companies who have a few patents but no products. They have nothing to lose, you cant sue them because they dont have any products anyway, their entire business is litigation.
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The more things change... (Score:5, Insightful)
I look forward to Microsoft's statement on Friday about how great it is that companies like Linspire are recognizing the need to properly licence Microsoft patents and blah, blah, blah...
Followed, on Monday, I guess, by a statement from Linspire CEO Kevin Carmony that they never admitted to infringing on Microsoft patents and that they never talked about it, and that Linspire infringes on no one's patents, and, and, and ...
Churning 'em out before GPLv3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Thanks ESR! (Score:4, Informative)
That's really funny (Score:5, Interesting)
- Truetype is an APPLE innovation
- Truetype was developed over 20 years ago, so any patents pertaining to such have long run out. Even if there were valid claims, APPLE would have to be the one to pursue the claims. Somehow I cannot see Apple doing this.
- Fonts aren't copyrightable, based on numerous court precedents (note: a font is distinct from a typeface: a font is a typeface with a style, weight, size applied)
A typeface dscriptor (a
So, licensing truetype fonts to Linux distributions? Ha. I hope these linux vendors are not paying so much as a dime for these "agreements"
Re:That's really funny (Score:4, Informative)
Even funnier is the fact that Red Hat released replacements to the common TT fonts [redhat.com] under a GPL license. The full-hinted versions will be released circa September 2007.
Where the fuck are all the other companies in sponsoring stuff like this?
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The patents are an afterthought (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This will devide the boys from the men (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:This will devide the boys from the men (Score:4, Insightful)
Why?
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Because Linus caught the FSF sleeping on the kernel work and showed the world that building a world-class OS kernel just isn't that hard?
Re:This will devide [sic] the boys from the men (Score:4, Interesting)
None of which is to denigrate the Linux people in any way. They've done a great job in raising the profile of Open Source / Free Software (and they are the same thing) to the point where an entrenched monopoly is running scared.
As for Hurd, well, that failed simply because it's a microkernel and microkernels plain don't work. Hurd is designed around the idea of building fences where they look pretty, irrespective of how much traffic may have to pass through them. Linux is designed around the idea of building fences where as little traffic as possible ever has to pass through them, no matter how ugly it may look to an outsider with no understanding of what those fences are there to do. The existence of layers is natural, but the boundaries between them are determined by cold, hard mathematics. Attempting to adjust those boundaries will ultimately be futile.
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It is worse than you think (Score:5, Insightful)
But I see this dark cloud with some silver lining. We will know which companies actually are part of the Linux community and which ones are not. So far Redhat and Ubuntu have vocally expressed that they will not do any such deals with Microsoft. There may be others but I am unaware of any at this time.
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I do not think that word means what you think... (Score:4, Insightful)
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
You are not free to make choices that restrict my freedoms. Full stop.
Part of freedom is about maintaining freedom. The problem with deals like Linspire and Novell and Xandros is this: they are complicit in Microsoft's attempt to control free software. If they are successful, they have contributed to the reduction of my freedoms.
This isn't a matter of, "You are free to do as I say." This is a matter of, "Don't tread on me." This is a matter of, "Your right to swing your fist ends just before my nose." This is a matter of, "Those fuckers are trying to destroy a beautiful thing."
You are free to use Linspire. Go ahead. But as you find yourself free to do what Microsoft says, remember: it was your choice.
And choices have consequences.
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Re:Hold on just minute (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course not. That's why the biggest on-line success stories are based on free software (Google, Amazon, others). That's why most fortune-1000 companies use free software. That's why Linux has been the fastest-growing OS for several years. (Not that it means much, as it's also still behind Apple in terms of desktop deployment.)
The patent agreements are to increase the fears, not allay them. Right now, you can use Linux freely. You can download a copy and install it on all your computers, whether you have one or one thousand or one million. The BSA can't bust down your door and count your Linux seats. (Well, they can, but there's nothing they can do about it.)
Microsoft aims to change that perception. They want people to believe that Linux has the same licensing requirements as MS-Windows. They want to reduce people's freedoms, or at least change their perception of those freedoms.
If you can support a company like that, be my guest. I won't. I refuse to use their software. I will never develop for their software. Not that my threats keep Ballmer up at night or anything, but they aught to realize they are alienating their own customers, which is *never* a good business strategy.
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