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Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today

Posted by kdawson on Thu May 24, 2007 07:33 AM
from the wait-is-over dept.
javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Dell Linux Details 288 comments
jon_anderson_ca writes "Dell, through their direct2dell website, has released some details of their soon-to-be-available Linux machines. Among the highlights: Only hardware that works with Linux is offered; open-source drivers are used where possible; binary drivers for Intel wireless cards, etc.; and no support for proprietary media codecs. Seems reasonable, but it's too bad that Click2Run isn't in Ubuntu 7.04 for the sake of those wanting to (legally) play DVDs, use AVI files, etc." The direct2dell site divulges no details on what models will be offered with Linux. For those we turn to linuxquestions.org, where proprietor Jeremy published a scoop last week: "We will be launching a Linux based OS (Ubuntu) on the E520, 1505 and XPS 410 starting next Thursday, 5/24."
[+] Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive 388 comments
Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."
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  • by bytesex (112972) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:35AM (#19251071) Homepage
    They must be mighty expensive then !
    • by ronadams (987516) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:43AM (#19251195) Homepage
      Nah, they just shipped one for each of the three Linux users in the common marketplace who would buy a pre-built machine.
      • I thought I should hang back and let others do the initial buying, to see how well this works out and whether the hardware crashes and burns. But if everyone did that, then nobody would buy because no one would want to be first. Since I've been looking forward to getting a Linux notebook, I think it should be okay for me to be one of the first "tryer-outers". Also, hopefully this venture of Dell's into Ubuntu will be high-profile enough that if I encounter any problems, I'll scream and shout that I'm go
    • 'Scuse me for topic-hopping a near-top thread, but this needs to be seen.

      Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.

      If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:

      [Desktop]

      Windows XPS 410:$899
      Ubuntu XPS 410n:$849
      ($50 less)

      Windows Dimension E520 "Versatile Multimedia": $679
      Ubuntu Dimension E520n: $599
      ($80 less)

      [Notebook]

      Windows Inspiron E1505: $699
      Ubuntu Inspiron E1505n: $599
      ($100 less)
  • Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.
    • Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)

      by HistoricPrizm (1044808) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:38AM (#19251101)
      Makes sense if you consider the bundled software that comes with Windows that the software manufacturers pay Dell to put on the systems. And if you consider the added cost for supporting a new OS.
        • Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)

          by scuba_steve_1 (849912) on Thursday May 24 2007, @11:49AM (#19255625)
          > I paid $100 for Windows XP. The Ubantu Dell should cost at lest $100 less than the identical Windows box.

          1) Dell doesn't pay the retail cost for Windows.

          2) Dell defrays the cost of each PC with the additional software (aka "crapware") that vendors pay to have pre-installed on dell PCs. At the moment, the version of Ubuntu sold with Dell PCs does not include such software...so you are buying a clean PC. Thus, the price comparison noted in the original article is inappropriate. Instead, one should compare the cost of the new Dell Ubuntu models with the cost of their equivalent Windows versions with the dell "clean PC" option...which adds additional expense to the Windows PC.

          3) Dell must defray a range of costs associated with these new models, including additional work with OEM vendors for drivers, building a Linux-centric support site, and providing Linux OS phone support...at least with regards to how it relates to the hardware.

          4) Most people who will buy one of these models with Ubuntu will most likely not do so to save money. Thus, Dell does not need to offer deep discounts...and this is a free market.
    • Re:Typical (Score:5, Interesting)

      by thegnu (557446) <thegnuNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:39AM (#19251117) Homepage Journal

      Windows is cheaper than the free OS. That makes sense.


      I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.

      So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Windows costs less than free. They have to pay you to take Windows.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        > So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.

        Initially, perhaps. Overall, no. Reason: Security.

        What price do you want to put on peoples bank accounts, credit cards, ss#, etc?
        One piece of malware and that initial savings turns into a vastly expensive liability.
        Phishing is bad enough. Windows helps fill in the gaps.
      • My wife use to do response rate modeling for targeted advertising for a credit card company. The response rate is really, really low. You can't afford to pay very much per impression because otherwise, the numbers don't work out. They really don't work out for a Symantec who doesn't know who the buyer is, and there is a pretty good chance that the buyer is already a customer. What Dell ought to do is label certain models as 'Linux certifed' and allow you to buy those machines without Windows and the price o
    • by Toby_Tyke (797359) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:51AM (#19251303) Journal
      There was a story on Ars Technica a while back (I don't have the link, sorry) where Michael Dell was doing a question and answer session, and someone asked him how much extra they would have to pay to get a PC without "Craplets". The figure he gave was $50 - $60.

      Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        For us, as an IT service provider, a single license of Vista Home Basic costs 105.50 CHF, that's 85 US$.

        We do not have any special rebates, so that's just the _STANDARD_ price. The chance that it costs Dell a bit more than half the sum we have to pay is very likely.
      • Value of including craplets > cost of Windows.

        Therefore, there is business case for MS to give away craplet-infested Windows install disks.

        I don't know whether to be amused, intrigued, or run screaming in horror.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      How smart of Dell, who will buy Ubuntu computer when he can for the same price have Vista license? You get all the dll files you might need for Wine, W32codecs, etc and can install Ubuntu by yourself since Dell doesn't modify Ubuntu install in any way AFAIK.
  • Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in. So it costs you negative money at first, but believe me there is a positive cost at the end that more than makes up for it, or else they wouldn't do it. Open source is the same price the whole time: free.
    • by Aladrin (926209) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:40AM (#19251139)
      Don't forget that at the moment, Windows is also cheaper to support. That cost is built into a Dell, since they provide support for 'free' after you buy the PC. They charge for that up front.

      One would initially think that only those who know linux will buy one of these with Kubuntu on it, but as more techs convince family and friends to buy them, support costs will rise.

      I've never bought a brand-new laptop because I don't really need one, and it's always been a hassle to guarantee Linux will work on it, before I buy it. For only $600 though, I'm seriously considering one of these. It'll depend on specs and if they sell out too quickly. We'll see.
      • by Aladrin (926209) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:43AM (#19251185)
        I just looked... The Inspiron E1505 with Windows starts at $699... That makes the Linux version $100 cheaper. Very nice.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I'm not sure I entirely buy the 'Windows is also cheaper to support.' argument. Correct me if I am wrong, but Dell only supplies support for the hardware don't they? If they think it is software, don't they tell you to reinstall Windows? If so, then support should actually be cheaper for Ubuntu, as they wouldn't need to convince the person to erase their other software. I think that the typical Ubuntu support call should go something like this:

        Dell: Dell support, what seems to be the problem?
        User:
    • Microsoft pays a heavy subsidy to lock people in

      Eh?

      It's all the other software vendors apart from MS who pay for their adware/crapware/scareware to be on the Dell Desktop.
    • 3rd party software (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dj245 (732906) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:46AM (#19251231) Homepage
      Dell pays for Microsoft software just like everybody else. They don't pay very much, but they still pay a little for it. The difference is the 3rd party stuff. The Norton/McAfee third party trials. The AOL links on the desktop. The Nero trials and all the other stuff you either uninstall or wipe with your own installation of XP/what-have-you. *Those* are the sort of things that Dell gets kickbacks on.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Score: 5, Usual bollocks

      Microsoft doesn't pay a subsidy. That's ridiculous. Windows is cheaper for Dell as the support infrastructure is already there, and has been there for years and years. A new OS on their line means they obviously have to spend more in getting more staff/callcentres/training/etc. to support it, hence the increased price. It wouldn't make much sense for them to charge non-Ubuntu users for this cost, as that would raise the prices of other lines for no apparent reason. Open source
    • by KWTm (808824) on Thursday May 24 2007, @09:25AM (#19252857) Journal
      I've been waiting for this day, so I plan to buy the Ubuntu laptop in the next week or two.

      At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:
      1. probably not by much
      2. In the long run, the Windows laptop may be more expensive when I have to pay more for add-ons that are on the Linux Hardware Compatibility List [linuxquestions.org]. (You know, like buying a wireless card that works.) Even if I end up wiping the system and reinstalling some other Linux distro, I want to know that the hardware works with Linux.
      3. Even if the add-on itself is pretty cheap, I've found that often I will end up buying a number of the cheap add-ons before I find one that's Linux compatible, so that effectively I've spent more money than actual list price (of the peripheral) to get it working. For example, I've got some webcams lying around that I ended up giving to the wife for her notebook. (She told me, "I only need one, you know...")
      4. Most importantly, my time is valuable to me. I don't want to have to spend the time messing around with a Linux distro trying to see which video driver is going to work for me. Hey, don't get me wrong: I like tinkering just as much as the next guy, but in the meantime I want to have a working system. I'd rather tinker to see what I can make even better, rather than tinker to get something working.
        In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
      5. The above referred to my willingness to pay more to receive a machine that works when I receive it, but I also get a future benefit by joining the critical mass that Dell creates by selling this machine. Specifically, since there is only one notebook (Inspiron E1505) from a major vendor that comes with Linux, I can be pretty sure that when someone comes out with something in the future for a notebook running Linux (say gRoadMaps or something), the author or the community will make sure it runs on that notebook. The same might not be true for some cheaper notebook with some weird chipset.
      6. Dell responded to us as a community. We should support them, not just to reward Dell, but to show the rest of the corporate world that, yes, it is worthwhile supporting Linux. I'm not just referring to Dell's competitors, but manufacturers of Linux-INcompatible [leenooks.com] hardware (WinModems, anyone?).
      7. You know we'll set up some Ubuntu system for the relatives so we don't have to do tech support for all their malware complaints? Well, this is the hardware equivalent. My dad's laptop is getting old and is starting not to meet his needs. If I'm happy with this Inspiron/Ubuntu package, I'll get one for my dad. Maybe then finally we can have hassle-free GPG-encrypted email and tunneled VNC for tech support. (Currently I refuse to support his Windows laptop.)
      8. As a sibling poster noted, perhaps the Linux notebook is cheaper ($600 vs $699 for Windows?)

      So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.
  • OK fanboys... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by monk.e.boy (1077985) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:38AM (#19251105) Homepage

    .. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.

    It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!

    Put your money where your mouth is :-)

    monk.e.boy

  • Next to worthless (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JonasH (183422) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:43AM (#19251189) Homepage
    I don't see many people buying the more expensive model, just to have Ubuntu pre-installed, except maybe to make a point to Dell (very few will do this). Let's face it, the people who want Ubuntu are pretty likely to just buy the cheaper model and install Ubuntu. This might work in some distant future where people without technical knowledge want Linux, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

    I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.
  • by RedHat Rocky (94208) on Thursday May 24 2007, @08:05AM (#19251499)
    Retailer has new product and it's not priced dirt bottom. That's news?

    It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.

    If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.

    SOP, nothing to see here.
    • by StringBlade (557322) on Thursday May 24 2007, @08:21AM (#19251707) Journal

      According TFA, the prices are still cheaper (except the XPS) for the Ubuntu systems as long as you compare it to an Windows Vista Home Premium configuration (vs. the Home Basic).

      It breaks down like this:

      Linux preinstalled
      E520 - $599
      E1505n (notebook) - $599
      XPS 410n - $899

      Windows Vista Home Premium preinstalled
      E520 - $679 ($369 for Home Basic)
      E1505n (notebook) - $699 (for Home Basic)
      XPS 410n - $899
      The E520 and the E1505n are both cheaper by $80-$100 compared to the Vista Home Premium Edition (though the Windows notebook is actually cheaper even for Home Basic). That's still a good deal in my view.
  • We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site [dell.co.uk] for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page [dell.com], but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.

  • Price ranges (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AncientPC (951874) on Thursday May 24 2007, @08:48AM (#19252101)
    Dimenson E520n [dell.com] ranges from $289 - $399 with FreeDOS. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is +$310.

    XPS 410 [dell.com] ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.

    Inspiron E1505 [dell.com] ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.
  • by raw-sewage (679226) on Thursday May 24 2007, @09:33AM (#19253029)

    It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)

    Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".

    But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).

  • What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cereal Box (4286) on Thursday May 24 2007, @12:10PM (#19256007)
    I almost wonder what the point of all this is. Linux fanboys have made such a fuss about Dell and other companies shipping Linux machines, but I find it hard to believe that the "do it yourself" Linux crowd would actually even consider buying a machine that's already been built. The laptop makes sense I guess, but the desktops don't.

    Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.

    Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I almost wonder what the point of all this is.

      The ability to buy freedom for +$0-$100 more than the alternative, and invest in potentially a positive feedback loop of more and more vendors attempting to make Dell buy their components, thereby improving linux compatibility across the field?

    • Re:Inspirons (Score:5, Informative)

      by d3ac0n (715594) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:51AM (#19251309)
      Keep in mind those are the BASE prices.

      They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)

      My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.

      Good on ya' Dell!
      • Re:Inspirons (Score:4, Insightful)

        by b0s0z0ku (752509) on Thursday May 24 2007, @07:55AM (#19251357)
        I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months)

        And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.

        -b.

        • Re:Inspirons (Score:5, Interesting)

          by d3ac0n (715594) on Thursday May 24 2007, @08:16AM (#19251645)

          And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.


          Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.

          A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.

          I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.

          And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.

          Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.

                • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                  My old laptop is actually 2 1/2 years old. So my old laptop would be the same age as the one he is going to spend $400 on, and I only paid $650 for it new. Sounds like I'm getting the better deal here.

                  Besides, I've found that the useful life of most laptops is about 3-4 years. After that they start to either have battery issues, Power Adapter problems, loose or sticky lid hinges, worn keys, cracked frames and other component problems that require either repair or costly replacement parts. Not to mention
      • These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)

        According to TFA [itwire.com.au], the Linux laptop is $100 LESS expensive than the Windows one. This is GREAT news (despite being an entry model). While Compaq and Lenovo have had Linux laptops, they've been more expensive than the Windows ones. Indee

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      it's actually their $950 laptop with a rebate down to $700 for the windows model.

      they must be saving a LOT putting OSS on the machine.
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            I don't think anyone would blame Linux for a physically broken Notebook.

            People are funny -- they'll think: isn't that the OS that they put on cheap crappy computers? A lot of people don't differentiate the computer hardware from the OS -- they think of computers as Windows, Macs, or Linuxes.

            -b.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      all true, except the line about photoshop: not to flame about gimp - but it's no photoshop. It's great and all, but (at the moment) it's not even close.
      Some day I hope they get there, but that day is not today.
    • ... that almost anyone clued in enough to decide that they want Ubuntu would be clued up enough to just buy the Windows version and install Ubuntu dual boot. Most linux users still have some use for windows and its lice to have it legally.

      Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).

      I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.

      I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.

      I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.

    • Do you really think there's a PC manufacturer out there who wouldn't want to tap into the Wal-Mart distribution channel?

      Dell is geared up with the kind of manufacturing capacity to supply systems to Wal-Mart at the ridiculously low prices they demand. Landing a huge sales channel like this is hardly desperation on Dell's part. This is a win for both companies. Maybe even for those of us who buy systems, too.