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Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today
Posted by
kdawson
on Thu May 24, 2007 07:33 AM
from the wait-is-over dept.
from the wait-is-over dept.
javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."
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[+]
Dell Linux Details 288 comments
jon_anderson_ca writes "Dell, through their direct2dell website, has released some details of their soon-to-be-available Linux machines. Among the highlights: Only hardware that works with Linux is offered; open-source drivers are used where possible; binary drivers for Intel wireless cards, etc.; and no support for proprietary media codecs. Seems reasonable, but it's too bad that Click2Run isn't in Ubuntu 7.04 for the sake of those wanting to (legally) play DVDs, use AVI files, etc." The direct2dell site divulges no details on what models will be offered with Linux. For those we turn to linuxquestions.org, where proprietor Jeremy published a scoop last week: "We will be launching a Linux based OS (Ubuntu) on the E520, 1505 and XPS 410 starting next Thursday, 5/24."
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Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive 388 comments
Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."
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Only three ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Only three ? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
I'm one of those 3. Here's the system I'll buy: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Only three ? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
TFA Updated: All Linux boxen $50-100 less than MS (Score:5, Informative)
Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.
If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:
Parent
Typical (Score:2)
Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Dell doesn't pay the retail cost for Windows.
2) Dell defrays the cost of each PC with the additional software (aka "crapware") that vendors pay to have pre-installed on dell PCs. At the moment, the version of Ubuntu sold with Dell PCs does not include such software...so you are buying a clean PC. Thus, the price comparison noted in the original article is inappropriate. Instead, one should compare the cost of the new Dell Ubuntu models with the cost of their equivalent Windows versions with the dell "clean PC" option...which adds additional expense to the Windows PC.
3) Dell must defray a range of costs associated with these new models, including additional work with OEM vendors for drivers, building a Linux-centric support site, and providing Linux OS phone support...at least with regards to how it relates to the hardware.
4) Most people who will buy one of these models with Ubuntu will most likely not do so to save money. Thus, Dell does not need to offer deep discounts...and this is a free market.
Parent
Re:Typical (Score:5, Interesting)
I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.
So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Initially, perhaps. Overall, no. Reason: Security.
What price do you want to put on peoples bank accounts, credit cards, ss#, etc?
One piece of malware and that initial savings turns into a vastly expensive liability.
Phishing is bad enough. Windows helps fill in the gaps.
Crapware reabate argument is bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
It makes perfect sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
We do not have any special rebates, so that's just the _STANDARD_ price. The chance that it costs Dell a bit more than half the sum we have to pay is very likely.
Craplet funded Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
Therefore, there is business case for MS to give away craplet-infested Windows install disks.
I don't know whether to be amused, intrigued, or run screaming in horror.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:4, Insightful)
One would initially think that only those who know linux will buy one of these with Kubuntu on it, but as more techs convince family and friends to buy them, support costs will rise.
I've never bought a brand-new laptop because I don't really need one, and it's always been a hassle to guarantee Linux will work on it, before I buy it. For only $600 though, I'm seriously considering one of these. It'll depend on specs and if they sell out too quickly. We'll see.
Parent
Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Dell: Dell support, what seems to be the problem?
User:
Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:4, Informative)
Eh?
It's all the other software vendors apart from MS who pay for their adware/crapware/scareware to be on the Dell Desktop.
Parent
3rd party software (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft doesn't pay a subsidy. That's ridiculous. Windows is cheaper for Dell as the support infrastructure is already there, and has been there for years and years. A new OS on their line means they obviously have to spend more in getting more staff/callcentres/training/etc. to support it, hence the increased price. It wouldn't make much sense for them to charge non-Ubuntu users for this cost, as that would raise the prices of other lines for no apparent reason. Open source
I'll pay to be sure Linux works now AND later (Score:5, Interesting)
At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:
In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.
Parent
OK fanboys... (Score:5, Insightful)
.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.
It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!
Put your money where your mouth is :-)
monk.e.boy
Mod parent up; not a troll. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Mod parent up; not a troll. (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed. This is the kind of marketing Linux has needed for a while to begin to impinge on the consciousness of the average user. As long as they had to call their geeky neighbor and have him/her install it on their box then spend weeks getting acquainted with the differences, Linux was not going to get any respect. Now, there may be a chance.
Parent
Re:Mod parent up; not a troll. (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Agree (Score:3, Funny)
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/
used to be kinda different. And I made fun of it over here.
http://a4fs.net/img/lol.htm [a4fs.net]
Next to worthless (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.
Price Subject to Change? (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.
If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.
SOP, nothing to see here.
Re:Price Subject to Change? (Score:5, Informative)
According TFA, the prices are still cheaper (except the XPS) for the Ubuntu systems as long as you compare it to an Windows Vista Home Premium configuration (vs. the Home Basic).
It breaks down like this:
The E520 and the E1505n are both cheaper by $80-$100 compared to the Vista Home Premium Edition (though the Windows notebook is actually cheaper even for Home Basic). That's still a good deal in my view.Parent
Meanwhile, in the UK... (Score:3, Interesting)
We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site [dell.co.uk] for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page [dell.com], but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.
Price ranges (Score:3, Interesting)
XPS 410 [dell.com] ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.
Inspiron E1505 [dell.com] ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.
Changing the rules of the game---in MSFT's favor?! (Score:3, Interesting)
It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)
Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".
But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).
What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.
Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The ability to buy freedom for +$0-$100 more than the alternative, and invest in potentially a positive feedback loop of more and more vendors attempting to make Dell buy their components, thereby improving linux compatibility across the field?
Re:Inspirons (Score:5, Informative)
They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)
My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.
Good on ya' Dell!
Parent
Re:Inspirons (Score:4, Insightful)
And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.
-b.
Parent
Re:Inspirons (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.
A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.
I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.
And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.
Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides, I've found that the useful life of most laptops is about 3-4 years. After that they start to either have battery issues, Power Adapter problems, loose or sticky lid hinges, worn keys, cracked frames and other component problems that require either repair or costly replacement parts. Not to mention
Linux laptop is $100 cheaper than the windows one (Score:3, Insightful)
According to TFA [itwire.com.au], the Linux laptop is $100 LESS expensive than the Windows one. This is GREAT news (despite being an entry model). While Compaq and Lenovo have had Linux laptops, they've been more expensive than the Windows ones. Indee
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
they must be saving a LOT putting OSS on the machine.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
People are funny -- they'll think: isn't that the OS that they put on cheap crappy computers? A lot of people don't differentiate the computer hardware from the OS -- they think of computers as Windows, Macs, or Linuxes.
-b.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Some day I hope they get there, but that day is not today.
Re:What they fail to mention (Score:4, Insightful)
Not everyone does professional-quality PAPER graphic design. For most Web work, GIMP is just fine.
-b.
Parent
Re:Don't bitch about the price (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:I would have thought... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).
I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.
I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.
I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.
Parent
Re:Dial Up (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Oh, puhleeeze... (Score:3, Insightful)
Dell is geared up with the kind of manufacturing capacity to supply systems to Wal-Mart at the ridiculously low prices they demand. Landing a huge sales channel like this is hardly desperation on Dell's part. This is a win for both companies. Maybe even for those of us who buy systems, too.