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Linux Preinstalled Dell Available Soon
Posted by
samzenpus
on Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:45 AM
from the dude-you-got-open-source dept.
from the dude-you-got-open-source dept.
An anonymous reader writes "According to a BetaNews article,
Dell confirmed on Wednesday plans to offer Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems, beyond its current Linux-based servers and Precision workstations.
No specific time frame was given for the expanded Linux plans, although the company said in a blog posting that it will provide an update in the coming weeks regarding the effort. It will detail 'information on which systems we will offer, our testing and certification efforts, and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available,' Dell said, adding that, 'The countdown begins today.'"
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So... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
A perceived lack of ROI, I would guess. Whether that perception was accurate will be determined once they've been offering the Linux PC's for a while and can weigh their profits against support costs.
Re:So... (Score:4, Interesting)
A perceived lack of ROI, I would guess. Whether that perception was accurate will be determined once they've been offering the Linux PC's for a while and can weigh their profits against support costs.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
To have a laptop that works.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
All good questions.
I'm sure the lack of interest in Vista has something to do with this. When MS is about to release a new OS, they talk to hardware vendors and share some market predictions. They expected to sell XX copies, which in turn translated to Dell means "We'll sell xx new PC's due to Vista". Its not just Dell, it was everyone, but Dell is the example.
Dell of course did not sell nearly as many PC's as they expected, sees part of their market headed for Ubuntu and RHEL and needs to follow the trend.
I don't know, however if they are violating some part of their resale agreement with Microsoft and its a very good question. Is MS just 'staying' this because they know it was Vista that ultimately lead to this happening, or are they going to really bitch about it?
As for their offices burning down, I guess that depends on how many employees are using Dell Laptops.
As for why now? Why not a year ago? I think it was due to 2.4 and earlier 2.6 kernels not going so well on their hardware. I also think the growing server market had a bit to do with it.
Finally Yes Dell could go bankrupt, but I doubt offering Linux as an option will have contributed to that if it happens. After all, its not the condom's fault that you forgot to put it on
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure the lack of interest in Vista has something to do with this.
Why would a typical Dell customer who isn't interested in Vista, be interested in Linux ?
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Marketing!
That's right folks, we are poised to market linux to any and every one of those poor fools who couldn't even use a toaster.
It's the next big thing!
Or perhaps there has been enough stink about it to get them to at least sale the idea. I'm sure it won't cost that much and it will probably push a few more units.
Hell, even I would have liked this last year when I purchased several new systems. Given how goofed up the process is on some of the top end stuff it would just be kinda nice to have them out the door and pre-installed. Especially when performing a build out on a project and the last thing you want to do is worry about your servers installation needs.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
Really, Linux isn't that unknown. Especially when all the geeks/nerds/admins are running around with Linux orientated Con shirts and laptops with Ubuntu or Fedora on it. I have converted my share. All have been told I can reinstall windows for them for free if things don't work out. Zero requests to do so. Most have been followed up with too.
And thats just me.
More companies are using it. Schools are starting to switch. Some people do notice this, and spark interest. Just pretend now you are a tech noob, and hear about this Ubuntu thing. What do you get when you google that? One of the better Linux homepages IMHO. Enough to at least spark interest or curiousity. And most people have their resident geek to ask about. Thats how over half of the people I know are on Linux (mostly Linspire and Ubuntu) found out about it. Some blurb somewhere and drilled me.
However, that being said, some real advertising beyond IBM is needed. Especially with the context of the IBM ads. They are aimed at us and the PHB and the army of Sr Admins that control what toys get bought and when. When Ubuntu or Linspire get ads with a Dell or Gateway, then the real momentum will begin.
Parent
Not typical. (Score:5, Interesting)
And I'm a Linux user.
But suppose I was an XP user. Right now, Linux can have better support for pre-Vista software via Wine -- Vista is actually broken enough that it depends on your software whether it's easier to go to Wine or to Vista. And, remember all those problems nVidia was having with Vista? I'm not sure if those are resolved yet, or what other problems there might be, but Linux support from nVidia has been rock solid -- and thus, actually better than Vista right now.
So, oddly enough, I would recommend Linux over Vista for gaming, although you're really better off with XP. I fully expect this to change, though -- Vista SP1 will probably fix every problem I've described here.
Parent
Re:So... (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, but your theory holds no juice.
(Hint: Next time, make a point... THEN substantiate it with graphs & pictures)
Parent
Great (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Great (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Great, and maybe possible (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers
Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1. I expect that options 2 and 3 would be similar in cost, even if the Linux option included a DVD with the distribution, drivers, and a collection of FOSS packages. The trade-offs in pricing would be visible in a way that customers might understand, although the crapplet collection would probably be described as "bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages" to mask its negative value. People who truly want Windows might opt for the reduced-crap option, even if its price is higher (especially if they experienced the crapplet search & destroy obstacle course after an earlier purchase).
With luck, we will never see the fourth pricing option which lurks malevolently in the background:
4. Linux, with bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:
1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers
Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1
3) will cost at least as much as 1), and both will be more expensive than 2). The subsidized windows machine will cost the least due to the crapplets as well as economy of scale. The Linux machine will probably be more than the crapplet-free Windows machine because a) fr
Re: Great (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, if you use a free, community-supported distro and are happy with that, know your way around it and don't mind upgrading to the next release every few months, then it may be cheaper. Assuming you have some sysadmin skills and your own time has no value.
However, if you're in the market for a new laptop, if might be worth asking yourself if a few extra currency units on a kilo-currency unit investment means so much to you that you'd rather buy something you don't want (and possibly actually hate using)
I'm so excited! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm so excited! (Score:5, Funny)
Dell: Hello, can we help you?
Me: Hi, I am having some problems installing Linux on my new Dell laptop. I need some information about the video card so I can set up X.
Dell: Ok, umm
Me: Yes?
Dell: Ok, umm
Parent
It gets better... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh the joy, I can just see it now ...
... sure ... you said Lyn-ucks? ... can you spell that please?
Dell: Hello, can we help you?
Me: Hi, I am having some problems installing Linux on my new Dell laptop. I need some information about the video card so I can set up X.
Dell: Ok, umm
Me: Yes?
Dell: Ok, umm
Dell: ... using Nato Phonetics mind you... ..... phonetics.... Ah here it is: Uniform, Xray.
Me: Uh... Phonetics??
Dell: Yes Phonetics... you know Lima, Indigo, November...
Me: Mmm... Ok... I don't know phonetics but I'll try... Lima, Indigo, November..... wait... let me seee.... http://www.google.com/ [google.com]
Dell: Excellent Sir! Now please spell out your full name and address, the model name of your Dell computer, it's serial code, the Linux operating system version and your corporate credentials... Using phonetics
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
is there a politician in the room? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let the cheering being... (Score:5, Interesting)
The lack of the MS tax will be great, but I have to wonder how many 'regular joes' and 'mom and pops' will try it out. We all know the stories about people setting up their parents with it, but that comes with an implied, and personal support system. And if their Linux Tech Support is anything like their Windows Support the help available may be less than stellar. I sure hope it catches on, even a little competition for MS is a good thing, and introducing people to OSS is fantastic. I also wonder if they'll have the models available at brick and mortar retailers, and if they'll actually push them.
I think the sales figures will be very interesting to watch, especially for non-enterprise customers. The figures I'd be especially interested in would be the people who were happy with their purchase, and the real numbers behind that might be impossible to come by..
Re:Let the cheering being... (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, the previous lab was perhaps 80% Linux, and the current one is 50% (and the in-house IT group installs a dual-boot Linux by default on every Windows machine). And in fact I know there's been growing grumbling about this kind of exclusive deal when they aren't offering what we're using (no, the OS is not the whole issue but it's a fairly big part).
In this kind of environment, sales of the Linux version would easily be more than half of all machines, including laptops. Now of course, this is not a very common environment on one hand, but we go through computing equipment like a TV preacher goes through hairspray on the other, so the field of research is not totally insignificant even for a large corporation.
Parent
Re:Let the cheering being... (Score:4, Interesting)
My point is that whilst the market may not be huge, Dell doing this could gain themselves a much larger part of that market by making these offerings, so it may well be successful for them.
Parent
Re:Let the cheering being... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to mention that the market is growing. Dell is in a perfect position for early adoption. Dell knows they need to capture this market BEFORE the demand is entirely there. That way as the demand grows they maintain their market dominance.
There are other factors too. Dell is the largest PC vendor. Manufacturers might not cave to kernel volunteers wanting specification but they will cave to Dell. A customer the size of Dell is enough to justify linux support for your device even without any other demand. The is probably true of software in many cases. Increased hardware and software availability will mean increased adoption and a growing market.
Parent
Re:Let the cheering being... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Let the cheering being... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Stop wondering (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we please cut down on the "but I wonder" posts. Never mind what gets posted, there's always a bunch of folks there to "wonder" about the opposite happening, never mind what's the talk about. Just as some sorta hobby.
Why wonder, when you can wait and see? If Dell offers Linux computers, this is good. It can't possibly be bad, if nobody buys 'em Dell will stop offering them. Nothing more.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That's nothing, I've got fourteen, all of which run Linux.
But seriously, put your dick away, it's smaller from this angle than you might think.
I used to build my PCs but after you've cut your hands to shreds on the sharp edges of metal cases often enough, you realise that there is a value-add in pre-built machines. Corporate desktops in particular, like SFF Compaqs, are much easier to handle and upgrade, and I think they look nicer than your typical hobbiest t
For some reason, I really want to see... (Score:5, Funny)
Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty (Score:5, Interesting)
As long as you're not doing RAID and you're cautious about 3D desktop stuff, Feisty Beta is really ready to now for semi-experienced Linux users and has strong potential as "The Chosen One" of distros. It should eat significant market share as people with older Win98 boxes are forced to upgrade to *something* due to lack of ongoing security support. And it'll tempt a lot of XP folk disgusted with malware issues.
This has to be Dell's top choice and it's due for production release late April '07.
Re:Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Or were you just using this story as an opportunity to flog Feisty?
Re:Betcha they'll wait for Ubuntu Feisty (Score:5, Informative)
* I've played with a LOT of distros looking for one that can be supported among low-tech-level end users. Feisty, even in Beta, is the best I've seen. It has a hell of a lot of potential.
* What are the alternatives? They could go with a commercial distro like Red Hat, Linspire or Suse, but that means more OS costs than a base Vista install. If they do one of the free variants of those (Fedora or OpenSuse) there are stability issues - trust me, I *loved* Fedora Core 6 and if it was just for my personal use, I'd have stuck with it, but the autoinstaller sometimes loads stupid stuff. OpenSuse 10.2 was more stable but the European repositories were often down. I haven't tried Freespire but those magic numbers "1.0" for a version don't inspire confidence. That leaves what, Mepis as a low-end commercial distro? How much support is there for Mepis as opposed to Ubuntu?
Pretty much every Linux geek out there has at least some experience with Ubuntu at this point. That alone is reason to consider Ubuntu. Canonical is going to want this deal to go down, bad. Ubuntu is almost unique as being a free-to-download distro that still has a corporate development base.
My personal favorite distro is actually Zenwalk. Fast as hell Slackware fork with basically all the hard stuff already done. Awesome distro, but...just a few too many minor glitches to load it on "Grandma Millie's" P4 box and expect not to get panic phone calls once a week or so.
It's not us geeks that are the acid test for Linux, it's "Grandma Millie". Like a lot of my fellow political activists who are being hammered by Windows malware. I'm sick of doing bughunts for these folk when they get infested or zombified, flat fed up, and I can't see any better Linux alternative than Ubuntu.
Parent
Future Dell Windows Installs (Score:5, Funny)
In related news, advice? (Score:5, Informative)
I asked them to send me the EULA after they denied me on the phone (there was no comprehension of the issue), this is the response I received:
As per our conversation, we are unable to refund or exchange the Microsoft Windows Vista Operating System as the license is already tied to your computer, service tag #: BLAHBLAH
And any exchange or refund of the license would be in breach of licensing agreement.
Microsoft Vista is a good platform where technology is moving forwards and the markets are now gearing towards Microsoft Windows Vista.
Any advice or let it go? - how amusing is that final sentence!
Re:In related news, advice? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Now it's up to the linux users (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong direction (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, why?
Preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
For everyone who says that this is a ploy by Dell: (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see it how... (Score:5, Funny)
Dell: How can I help you today?
Me: I bought this computer with Linux on it from you guys, and now I am having problems with X.
Dell: RTFM, n00b!
Preloaded Linux or open hardware? (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I do not care much if Dell ships laptops with Linux.
What would make me positively surprised is if any large computer manufacturer would provide hardware with a guaranteed open specifications. If I get it with or without OS is irrelevant.
Closed hardware and no specs makes me a dull boy.
What I want to know is... (Score:4, Funny)
Not the first time (Score:3, Informative)
This isn't the first time Dell offered Linux. The last time they made a half-hearted effort then made a big show of saying no one wanted it. The Linux machines were almost impossible to find on their web site, didn't have any support options and they charged more for not putting Windows on the box. Some test.
So I'm wondering if this is an actual effort to offer Linux boxes or another PR stunt? I don't trust Dell any farther than I can pee into a hurricane. They speak with the stench of Redmond on their lips.
Large companies typically a poor job of this (Score:4, Insightful)
I call BS (Score:5, Insightful)
The best thing Dell could do for Linux is simply make sure its hardware works. Put some engineers in a "Linux lab." They would make sure that all Dell computers, or just select Dell models, work well with Linux. That would mean that these models would have supported wireless and multimedia buttons that work. They would have video cards with open source drivers. Dell's Linux Web page would be much improved over its current version. It would have detailed instructions on how to make sure that suspend to RAM works with Dell laptops. It would have detailed instructions on how to get a selected Dell remote control to work with MythTV. Dell engineers would make sure the hardware has drivers, writing patches for the kernel if needed (then upstream would gladly help maintain the new code.)
If Dell did all this, there would be no question on "what distro to support." EVERY distro would then support Dell! Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Red Hat, SUSE, etc. would all take the necessary steps to get the Dell models supported in their distro. After all, with the detailed Dell information on the Dell site, integrating support would be dead simple! There would then be strong community sentiment in favor of Dell. Dell would be the best hardware maker for Linux. Everybody wins.
Linux preinstalled is not all that important. The emphasis on preinstalled is the old, Windows/Mac way of thinking. If the kernel supports the hardware, then ANY distro will work with Dells! Installing any distro would take just a few clicks. Sure, some people will want preinstalled. For that, Dell could just have "Certified Linux Partners" that would preinstall whatever distro they want. Then the partner gets the support calls, not Dell. Dell would have lots of partners and sell computers, without getting end user support hassles. Again, everybody wins.
Dell must realize all this. Their IdeaStorm is nothing more than PR BS. If they really wanted to support Linux, they would just improve hardware support. Write some drivers. Post some instructions. Instead they're doing a big public song and dance. I predict they will wave this website at MS during price negotiations. MS will drop the price. Then that's all we'll hear of this preinstalled BS. But that won't preclude TRUE Linux support like I've outlined here, and hopefully that will be forthcoming.
Re:I call BS (Score:4, Interesting)
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