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Dell Opens a Poll On Linux Options

Posted by kdawson on Tue Mar 13, 2007 03:52 PM
from the you-asked-for-it dept.
narramissic writes "In response to overwhelming user demand for Linux, Dell has posted a survey on a company blog that asks 'PC users to choose between Linux flavors such as Fedora and Ubuntu, and to pick more general choices such as notebooks versus desktops, high-end models versus value models and telephone-based support versus community-based support.' Votes will be collected through March 23, and Dell plans to use the feedback to begin selling Linux-based consumer PCs." The poll is pretty minimal. Wonder how much it will really guide Dell's choices.
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[+] Technology: Dell Refunds Vista/Works With Two Emails 277 comments
look@thealternative.ch writes "Although many people have asked for pre-installed Linux, and Dell seems to have listened, some still think that buying a naked PC won't be easy. But what about stripping it naked after you buy it? I managed to get Windows Vista (and a bit more) refunded from Dell Germany last week. The process was surprisingly simple: 1) After delivery, ask Dell Support for refund by email. 2) ??? 3) Refund!!! Read the full email conversation in the original German or my English translation. For the impatient reader: The refund is €77.54 for Windows Vista Home Basic plus Works 8.0 (that is 15% of the total amount I paid). The whole process took 2 emails, 2 more to say thank you, and less than 48 hours. The money is already in my account. Kudos to Dell Customer Care (esp. 'Veronika') for being efficient and customer-oriented!"
[+] Michael Dell Using Ubuntu Linux At Home 236 comments
whoever57 sends us a link from the Dell site noting that Michael Dell is using Ubuntu Linux at home (7.04, Feisty Fawn) on a Precision M90 laptop loaded with Openoffice.org and Evolution. If one were betting on which distro Dell will eventually ship pre-installed, this factoid might be food for thought. Oh, and Micheal Dell's gaming system uses XP Media Center edition.
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  • No Poll? (Score:3, Funny)

    by MindStalker (22827) <jlarsen AT fsu DOT edu> on Tuesday March 13 2007, @03:54PM (#18338381) Journal
    No comments and the poll is already down.
  • Slashdotted (Score:5, Funny)

    by chrisbtoo (41029) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @03:55PM (#18338405) Homepage Journal
    Maybe that'll help guide Dell's opinion of whether people want Linux on their PCs.
  • Support? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by hackstraw (262471) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:03PM (#18338529) Homepage

    I love Linux and all, but what kind of support would be offered compared to Windows support? I have no experience with Windows support (don't use it), but when I call my ISP and other companies, they ask questions like "What version of Windows are you using?" By being a Linux and Mac guy, I find myself self supported much of the time, which is OK most of the time, but when the internet is down or something that is not OS dependant, I have issues from time to time, and its next to impossible to talk with support people sometimes.

    Now, I'm not talking about me. I've run Linux on a number of Dells (hundreds), but I don't need Linux support, but for "normal" people or whatever, what kind of support will they get?

  • by truckaxle (883149) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:05PM (#18338561) Homepage
    I personally do not want any flavor pre-installed. FreeDos is fine thank you. There are just too many options and partitioning preferences that I would typically reinstall anyways.

    I can install Redhat via a USB drive in 10 minutes so the advantages of pre-installation are minimal.

    What I really care about is not paying the Microsoft tax!
    • If it comes preinstalled then you know the hardware is working. You can take a system image (hopefully you will get a disc with one anyway) so if you roach the system you can reload it and see how THEY got everything working. It's very helpful to have it preinstalled even if you're just going to repartition.
      • Not just that (Score:4, Insightful)

        by phorm (591458) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @05:28PM (#18339803) Homepage Journal
        But it helps solve the chicken-before-the-egg issues that linux tends to run into. Big manufacturer starts supporting linux, starts using hardware that works in linux (even if it's a particular version of linux). Hardware vendors start getting orders for linux-compatible hardware. Other venders start supporting linux more in their hardware. More drivers, more compatible hardware, and the situation improves overall as the visibility and marketability of the OS increases.

        Is it just me, or doesn't anyone else thing that MS must be rather worried about the fact that a large manufacturer is looking hard at selling a non-MS operating system?
  • Laptops please (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:22PM (#18338789)
    My workplace already gets Precision workstations from Dell with RHEL on them. Although to be honest we swapped vendors for the last round because quad Opterons were the better choice at the time. RHEL isn't a particularly good desktop OS for my needs (low popularity, license/reinstall headache) but Ubuntu works well enough on the same hardware.

    What Dell really lacks is laptops with obvious Linux support. It's still a pain in the ass to look through their website and pick up a laptop that you know has working 3D drivers (ATI blows), wireless, and hibernation support. You can go look around for third party reviews and match model numbers but that leaves you looking off site (and evaluating against competitors) and Dell has a huge turnover in model revisions.
  • Why Linux? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Billly Gates (198444) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:23PM (#18338813) Homepage Journal
    What about Emacs?
  • Survey Contents (Score:5, Informative)

    by pavon (30274) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:25PM (#18338833)
    The page loaded for me (but wouldn't submit). Here are the questions, for the curious. And yes the first line was really at the top of the page - an unexpected joy of automation :)

    Dell recommends Windows Vista(TM) Business.

    Linux Learnings: We're Listening

    Thanks for visiting the Dell Linux Survey webpage. Please answer the following questions to help us determine how to best prioritize our resources for this effort.
    (Survey will be open March 13-March 23)

    1) Would your Dell system with Linux factory installed be for home or office use?
            Home Use
            Office Use
            Both

    2) Which systems should we prioritize on for Linux factory installation? (Rank Order: 1=highest, 6=lowest)
            Inspiron notebooks
            Dimension desktops
            XPS notebooks
            XPS desktops
            Latitude business notebooks
            OptiPlex business desktops

    3) What types of activities will you perform on your Dell system with Linux factory installed? (Rank order: 1=highest, 9=lowest if not using for specific listed purpose, leave blank)
            Basic productivity
            Email
            Web browsing
            Photo editing and management
            Gaming
            Music
            Video editing
            Software development
            Other:

    4) Which languages should we prioritize on?
            English
            Japanese
            French
            German
            Spanish
            Mandarin
            Other:

    5) For a tested & validated Linux install, what type of software support would you require?
            Existing community support structures for Linux that already exist with Dell participating more
            Email and online support forums through Dell
            Fee-based OS phone support
            Other:

    6) Which Linux distribution should Dell prioritize on?
            Commercial: Novell/SuSE Linux Desktop
            Commercial: Red Hat Enterprise Desktop
            Community Supported: Fedora
            Community Supported: OpenSUSE
            Community Supported: Ubuntu
            Other:

    • What types of activities will you perform on your Dell system with Linux factory installed?

      No, no, no.

      I want Linux Operating System installed on my computer, not Linux Factory!

      - RG>
  • by Dr Kool, PhD (173800) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:27PM (#18338853) Homepage Journal
    How are you leave off Debian GNU/Linux from the distribution list. Are you people just a bunch of idiots or what? It's obvious you Dellosers don't even know the history of GNU/Linux because Debian was the FIRST GNU/Linux distribution and continues to be the best GNU/Linux distribution. You'd have to be a complete moron to make a list of GNU/Linux distributions and leave off Debian GNU/Linux. It's obvious that Dell has no interest in supporting REAL free software, only a bunch of fake anti-freedom distros like Red Hat "Linux" (sic).

    Dell you can go to hell, I am never going to buy your products again!!!
    • by MightyYar (622222) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:37PM (#18338997)
      Gee, I wonder why Dell is hesitant to embrace the Linux community?
        • If he was being ironic, then MAN he made a good impression of a pissed-off Debian nut.

          Egg on my face... :)
          • If he was being ironic, then MAN he made a good impression of a pissed-off Debian nut.

            Egg on my face... :)
            If that's a good pissed-off Debian nut impression, I'd love to see his pissed-off FreeBSD nut impression... or even better, Gentoo...
  • by faloi (738831) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:36PM (#18338967)
    What's going to happen when Dell releases a flavor that can't play MP3s, or some media files, out of the box? I wonder if the idea of it being Linux is going to be...for lack of a better way of putting it...scary enough to the average user to dissuade them from selecting it as an option even if it saves 'em money.
  • by j1m+5n0w (749199) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:37PM (#18339005) Homepage Journal

    As a Linux user, there's really only two things I would like to see from Dell (or any PC manufacturer). One is the option of buying a computer with either a free OS or no OS (some more casual users (the type that Linux needs to be attracting if it wants to grow its user base) might prefer their favorite distro pre-installed, but I'm more likely to want to set everything up myself). Second, I want to know if the hardware will work well with open source drivers.

    The first is tricky for PC manufacturers from a political standpoint; they don't want to offend Microsoft. (I am curious if anyone has a good answer to this: supposing Microsoft were to raise their per-OS lisencing fees as retaliation against a PC manufacturer for selling a non-Microsoft OS, would they get sued for anticompetitive practices, or would they get away with it? Could they retaliate in other, more subtle ways?)

    The second is also tricky because many of the better graphics cards don't have open source drivers. (At least, not drivers that support 3d accelleration, which is usually why people buy high-end graphics cards in the first place.) If Dell were to say "sure, we support Linux, just use the binary-only Nvidia driver", that approach isn't going to make a lot of Linux users happy.


    • If Dell were to say "sure, we support Linux, just use the binary-only Nvidia driver", that approach isn't going to make a lot of Linux users happy.

      But Dell is in the position of selecting the best hardware components based on what their users want; if Dell said to Nvidia "we'd like to use your stuff, but it doesn't work for our Linux customers, who now represent 10% of our customer base, so we're going to offer your competitor as well", I'm going to bet that Nvidia sees the light. They simply wouldn't

  • by Crazy like a fox (735019) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @05:08PM (#18339493)
    Hard to take seriously a poll from a company that cannot even implement the submit button correctly on their poll page, using proper HTML, and without the ultimate stupidity of making their submit button tied to Javascript.

  • Dell language (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Animats (122034) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @06:09PM (#18340333) Homepage

    Dell assumes that customers 1) know the difference between an Inspiron, a Latitude, and and an XPS, and 2) care. Even GM gave up on that nonsense and discontinued the Oldsmobile nameplate.

  • Support wanted (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Alain Williams (2972) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @06:33PM (#18340673) Homepage
    The support that I want Dell to do is to: help the kernel developers to support their devices/hardware.
    Everything else can be done through normal channels.
  • by bgfay (5362) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @07:21PM (#18341205) Homepage
    I know that this flies in the open source/free software philosophy, but Dell should choose one distribution and stick with it. That way, they can set up specific Dell support groups. They can have a bunch of consumers who have bought the machines as free support in the groups. It will work.

    Why? Because unlike say Apple who could have this work, the system will be much more open. Apple's system should work because people are locked into hardware and software, but everything is closed so it's tough if, for example, iTunes 7.1 keeps the hardware mounted volume controls from working, to get a fix. Everyone just has to wait for Apple to put out 7.1.1. With Dell and (my choice) Ubuntu, the system is open.

    It could work. It could work very well.
  • Not voting (Score:5, Funny)

    by retro128 (318602) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @07:53PM (#18341505)
    Dell does not know their customers. I'm not participating in any Linux poll that does not have a CowboyNeal option.

    • Re:Naaa. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Maxo-Texas (864189) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:04PM (#18338549)
      You realize they can't support other distributions right?
      They can't even ensure that they'll work properly.

      Fully testing a distribution on a given piece of hardware probably takes a man-month.

      Trying to fix issues that don't work increases that time line.

      The best they could do is set up a standard test- run it against a given distribution and give it a percentage pass rating.

      Would you seriously pay them $890 for a laptop with a version of linux that passes 97% of tests and they'll show you a list of the 3% of the tests that fail so you can decide if you want to figure out and fix them or not on your own. Myself- I want everything to just work. And that means they can really only use a couple standard flavors.
      • Re:Naaa. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by The_K4 (627653) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:18PM (#18338743)
        As opposed to them selling me a Windows Laptop that I can then load Linux onto and GUESS at what works and what doesn't? The scenario that you propose is vastly better then today!
          • explanation (Score:5, Insightful)

            by zogger (617870) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:32PM (#18338911) Homepage Journal
            It's because once Dell starts offering linux, then the DRIVERS for all the various hardware and games, etc, will follow and *everyone* who runs linux in general will benefit. Dell and HP are the big kahunas with desktops, the entire industry will sit up and take notice that "Linux has arrived" once their linux offerings are common place. The peripheral industry is not impressed enough with the small tier 3 linux -capable computer vendors right now, a lot of them just totally ignore linux or offer some token crappy drivers, etc., but with Dell they will have to take notice and do something about it.
          • Re:Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Kadin2048 (468275) <slashdot@kadin.xoxy@net> on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:40PM (#18339055) Homepage Journal
            Is it a status symbol to have a computer box that says "Dell" on it?

            No, it's because they're cheap, and are of basically predictable quality.

            Most of the companies that specialize in "Linux laptops" that I've ever seen, charge a significant premium. In some cases, more of a premium than top-of-the-line Apple hardware. But more than that, it's hard to tell what you're buying. If I order a Dell, I have a good idea of what I'm going to get. With a no-name laptop, which is what most of the Linux ones start off as, it's harder to say. I can't go down to Best Buy and hammer on one of their keyboards to see whether it sucks or not. I can't go ask 5 out of every 10 of my friends what they think of theirs. That's a problem.

            It hasn't really been a problem to get a computer that will run Linux in a while, if you're willing to pony up bucks. The reason people are so interested in Dell, is that it would mean (hopefully) cheap, known-quality Linux machines, being sold right next to Windows ones. That's a big deal, particularly for the vast field of people who are 'on the fence' about "that whole Linux thing."
            • Re:Dell? (Score:4, Interesting)

              by Chandon Seldon (43083) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @07:02PM (#18341015) Homepage

              Most of the companies that specialize in "Linux laptops" that I've ever seen, charge a significant premium.

              Most of the people who say this haven't actually looked at the price situation recently.

              Configure a system from http://www.system76.com/ [system76.com] and an identical one from Dell. Check what the price difference is. My guess is that the couple bucks difference is worth not having to wipe Windows off the system, being *sure* that Linux supports the hardware, and not wondering if you got special discount "Dell hardware" where Dell demanded that reliability or performance be compromised for cost on the Dell system.

          • Businesses buy Dell because Dell is a well-known name. That's pretty much what it is. And if you hope to get Linux in your business, it better come from an approved vendor.
    • by KingSkippus (799657) * on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:06PM (#18338583) Homepage Journal

      The problem is that it's impractical for Dell, or any other company, to support every distribution and version of GNU/Linux that's out there. It's also impractical for them to test every hardware configuration with all of those distributions. They've got to pick one. Or two. Or five. Or whatever practical number their support people can handle. (Which I'm guess will end up being one or two at the most.)

      Personally, I think they should go with Ubuntu, as it is extremely popular and arguably the most user-friendly distribution. If you want a different distribution, you're free to install it, and it will probably work since you know that the Ubuntu drivers will work on their hardware. But if you get a Dell with Linux, along with their support and guarantee that it will work on their hardware, you'll have to go with the distribution they've actually tested and that they support.

    • This is really part of the problem. It costs Dell a ton of money to install a different default OS, or at least they claim that it does, and I've no basis to argue with them, so as a community, we need to be able to be satisfied with one distribution.

      One of the reasons that Dell et al have always used as an argument against installing Linux by default, is that Linux users are too hard to please, and the market is too balkanized. With Windows, you have (well, you did, pre-Vista) Home, and Professional, and you can charge extra for installing Professional. With Linux, you have Ubuntu, Novell, Fedora, and god knows what else, and you really can't charge extra for installing one or the other without alienating users.

      I think they need to pick ONE easy-to-use "beginners Linux" distribution, like Ubuntu or Lindows, and then offer a 'bare drive' option for users who want something else. Let's face it; if you are enough of a Linux user to have developed a preference between distributions, you can install the damn thing from an ISO. As long as the hardware is compatible and has Linux drivers available, you ought to be able to put anything you want on there.

      The argument for pre-installations is really about novice users who can't be bothered to install an OS onto a fresh machine, and just want something that's going to work with minimal fuss. They need a distribution that's as idiot-proof and "polished" as possible, and that's what the criteria for choosing it should be.
      • by quantaman (517394) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @05:49PM (#18340059)

        The argument for pre-installations is really about novice users who can't be bothered to install an OS onto a fresh machine, and just want something that's going to work with minimal fuss. They need a distribution that's as idiot-proof and "polished" as possible, and that's what the criteria for choosing it should be.
        Actually for myself (who is definitely not a novice user) there are two very tangible benefits for a pre-installed version.

        1) Even if I don't use the version they installed I will know that there are drivers (hopefully open source) available for that specific hardware and these drivers can likely be ported to my distro (if they haven't already).

        2) If piece of hardware X isn't working right now I have no idea if it's a hardware or driver problem. If they have a pre-installed version I can throw it on pre-installed distro and test it. If the hardware still doesn't work that still means it's either the hardware is broken or the driver is broken. However with the pre-installed distro I now have the ability to bug Dell about it since in either case it's still their problem.
    • by khasim (1285) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:08PM (#18338617)
      By offering NONE ... pre-installed ... but offering options on boxes so that they include only 100% Linux-friendly hardware. Which would be tested against the current kernel (and the kernel tested with would be documented).

      AND NOT COSTING MORE THAN AN EQUIVALENT WINDOWS BOX.

      Box A
      Windows config - $500

      Linux config -
      - remove modem (save $5)
      - replace modem w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.18) (add $15)

      - remove wireless card (save $10)
      - replace wireless card w/Linux compatible (kernel 2.6.20) (add $25)

      And so on. Support "Linux", not "Red Hat". Ship the hardware and let the buyer get support from the distribution s/he prefers.
      • by DogDude (805747) on Tuesday March 13 2007, @04:17PM (#18338713) Homepage
        And so on. Support "Linux", not "Red Hat". Ship the hardware and let the buyer get support from the distribution s/he prefers.

        Not gonna happen. Not in a million, billion, trillion years. Dell has to maintain some semblance of quality and reputation. People who don't know what they're getting into, and buy a Dell box with some kind of Linux, are going to be sorely disappointed in Dell once they realize what their support options are. Also, how is Dell going to handle warranty issues? How can they possibly troubleshoot a PC is it has god-knows-what software on it?

        Back to the ubiquitous car analogy: Toyota isn't going to sell you a car without tires. It's a hell of a lot more headache than it's worth.
    • I do not think that word means what you think it means.

      I do not think that joke means what you think it means.

      (Dell's servers seem pretty overwhelmed at the moment)
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          I just bought a notebook, so I'm not in the market, but if Dell had had a performance notebook that shipped with Linux when I was shopping, I'd have bought it. Does that mean my vote doesn't count?
        • Dell's servers being overwhelmed doesn't mean there's an actual overwhelming demand for Linux, just that there's a lot of Linux users with time on their hands who wish to try and give that impression, at least until they lose interest and move on to something else.

          Hmmmmmmmn, on the one hand we've got a whole bunch of people saying 'we want Dell to pre-install linux', on the other hand, we've got just you saying 'its a bunch of zealots trying to game Dell to make linux look good'.

          I know which I'd believe.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        lols! Dell runs Microsoft IIS on their webservers!
    • I am very curious as to how they would pick a Linux and properly provide support for it without preventing you from being able to upgrade your kernel whenever you want or adding any of the bazillion packages out there that you want.

      Pretty much the same way they provide "support" for Windows.

      Take your installer disk and re-install the system and it will be back to the same way you received it. Too bad about your data.

      Come on. The distributions can do better than that without even trying. Dell doesn't provide

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        If you have a decent partition scheme, you can have Dell's rescue disk wipe out /boot and /, but leave /home intact. Then you'd have to reset all your passwords, but other than that you'd be fine -- no lost data, just applications (and most of them easy enough to reinstall).
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Their servers are already available with Windows, RHEL, SUSE, or without an OS at all.