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Microsoft Claims Patent On Elements of Embedded Linux?
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Nov 16, 2007 05:24 PM
from the strange-bedfellows dept.
from the strange-bedfellows dept.
Preedit writes "An InformationWeek story points out a recent deal between Microsoft and Japanese printer maker Kyocera Mita. Under the agreement, Kyocera obtained from Microsoft a license to patents used in 'certain Linux-based embedded technologies.' The question the author asks is why Kyocera needs a patent license from Microsoft to develop its embedded Linux products."
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Simple (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Simple (Score:5, Funny)
Close, but those aren't the right laws. Here are laws.
MONKEYDOME!
0) Who run Microtown? STEVIE BALLMER RUN MICROTOWN!
1) Two competitors enter, ONE MONOPOLIST LEAVES!
2) Agree to the deal, or YOUR IP WE'LL STEAL!
3) Laissez-faire? FACE THE CHAIR!
Parent
Re:Simple (Score:5, Funny)
Worse than that.
Parent
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Useless Article... (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to be an embedded Linux developer.
However, I could more thoughtfully comment on this if the article revealed just what patents Microsoft believes Kyocera to be violating. It could have nothing to do with Linux; moreover, it could very well be a patent on some method of printing which is specific to the Kyocera hardware and just happens to be implemented as a Linux driver.
Looks more like FUD against Linux than anything else.
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Re:Useless Article... UCLA owns it (Score:3, Interesting)
We also know that UCLA has recently sued over the non-licensed usage of it's patents by a number of software technology firms, including Microsoft.
All your stolen Microsoft patents are belong to Cali!
Re:Useless Article... (Score:5, Interesting)
From the article:
Is it adding proprietary Microsoft technology on top of embedded Linux?
Could be...
Hard to know what that means--it's deliberately vague.
Now that's some reporting. There is really nothing to see here.Parent
Re:Useless Article... (Score:4, Informative)
And there probably never will be. If you've ever contacted MS IP Licensing you know that you can't even discuss licensing their technologies until after you're under NDA.
Parent
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Re:Useless Article... (Score:5, Interesting)
Based on the recent news of a major Korean company being under investigation for corruption/et cetera (this isn't localized to Korea, just mentioning it in proximity to this article), I will go on a limb and say microsoft is just wheeling and dealing and paying some exec to "go along with the script":
"We'll claim you're violating one or more of our patents; doesn't matter which ones, if they're pending or not; doesn't matter if later the USPTO tells us we're full of it; doesn't matter if prior art exists. WE rule this world, and if you play by our terms, Sonsaengnim, you'll make a buttload of money."
That's the business world for you.
Parent
A few questions for Kyocera (Score:5, Insightful)
So there are two possibilities: either they've got a specific one or two that they're really able to show Kyocera that are troublesome, or they've just got this massive library of "probable" ones that Kyocera decided to give in to. What would be more interesting to know is who approached who about the deal. What does it permit? What did that cost?
Anyway, this is at the stage where it isn't using patent law, but is just using corporate risk expectations. Very dangerous... which is why MSFT doesn't want to show their hand.
Software patent lifetimes should probably get quite a bit shorter, too...
--
Educational microcontroller kits for the digital generation. [nerdkits.com]
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
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That's called a back-door monopoly... and it hurts us, the marketplace, and the implementation of the benefits of technology we should all enjoy.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, but when does a "patent" become a hindrance to society by stifling innovation and competition? All that Microsoft has done is made a non-specific claim about owning patents and companies that can't pay the toll are afraid to move forward because they might end up sued into non-existence.
That's called a back-door monopoly... and it hurts us, the marketplace, and the implementation of the benefits of technology we should all enjoy.
It doesn't really say anything. Its like a major news story about an explosion in an animal shelter with the tag line "authorities do not suspect terrorist involvement" Spices up the story a little, but adds no actual information.
There are three distinct and unrelated aspects to the story.
1) Microsoft and Kyocera signed a cross licence agreement.
Common business practice. Nothing suspicious. The only relevant bit.
2) Kyocera uses Linux in some of it's products.
Again nothing unusual, and nothing suspicious. M
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
software patents (Score:3, Interesting)
Software patent lifetimes should probably get quite a bit shorter, too...
Software patents shouldn't exist at all, neither should patents for business methods. Only non obvious hardware implementations and unique solutions not already published should be patented.
FalconIt's a trap! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Japanese culture? (Score:4, Informative)
He thinks that it goes against the Japanese culture to use a technology without paying for it, that it shows disrespect to not pay for software licenses. He is not even allowed to consider using Linux or any other OSS for that matter.
You can pay for Linux if you like. (Score:2)
Re:Japanese culture? (Score:5, Interesting)
Many companies I've known won't use software if they aren't paying someone for support and a license (and, often, particular support guarantees and/or performance warranties.) I don't know anything about Japanese culture, but in business the need to have some else that's feet can be held to the fire if something goes wrong is a big deal.
Of course, you can get paid support (and sometimes licensing, when the software is under a dual OSS/commercial licensing model) for most OSS you might want to adopt in a business environment, so neither cultural nor business-based reluctance to use software without paying for it should be a major barrier to OSS adoption.
Parent
Re:Japanese culture? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Probably a case of CYA (Score:5, Insightful)
They Don't. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Damnit! I thought it was Opium.
Re:They Don't. (Score:4, Interesting)
Show us the the source of this statment, or stuh teh fkuc up and go back to the caves of Redmond.
Parent
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Not just fud... (Score:4, Interesting)
By binding potential developers (and we will may never see what is in the agreement in total) to MS it may make it a lot harder for them to deliver products that work with linux.
Now everytime they go to release a driver legal are going to have to have a good hard look at driver and the MS agreement.
How long before it gets to be too much hard work and they not bother?
"developers, developers, developers" is still true. Without delivery of new products any OS will die. Kyocera Mita make stuff people want to use in business settings - printer/fax machines and stuff like that.
they're pretty bad poker players too (Score:4, Insightful)
Maye we should all get in touch with them and say that we might own patents that they may be infringing. Just to be sure, they need to sign this licensing agreement and pay $xxxx for an assurance that we won't sue them in the future.
This seems to be just what MS have done, but being bigger and scarier than we are, they can get a way with it.
Maybe were reading this deal the wrong way.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe Kyocera just licensed Fonts/ODBC or some other mundane MS technology to use in their products. Food for thought.
Enjoy,
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Like MS or not Samba is used in order to inter-operate with Windows and MS might actually have some legitimate claims.
I've heard the Samba IP argument before. It doesn't hold water (IANAL). Windows/DOS networking (Netbios/SMB) was bo
It's a patent to prevent M$ IP in Linux (Score:2)
This seems to say that Kyocera will get it's ass in a sling putting Microsoft crap into an embedded linux cellphone or something. This is hardly what the article title seems to be suggesting. In fact, tfa seems to suggest the M$ is allowing certain linux embedded devices to employ it's IP. I hate M$ just as much as the next linux geek, but I call bullshit whichever sid
probably a pre-condition of (Score:2)
Do they know "exactly" what they licensed??? (Score:2, Insightful)
Now Kyocera IS infringing? (Score:2, Insightful)
If the Linux source code Kyocera is using is really containing "IP" from Microsoft, we should be able to see what the heck Kyocera licensed.
In your dreams Monkey Boy (Score:2)
I'm guessing this wasn't the core of what Kyocera needed. It's just as likely MSFT threw it in there as a FUD grenade target of poopertunity. An IP stink bomb.
This whole thing is just so...seedy. This is not how a supposedly world class company acts. It would be far more effective if they fielded high quality products at reasonable prices. Or is that a quaint concept nowadays?
Of course, with telcos spying on Americans, banks and credit card companies nickel and diming customers to death at will and
Flexible Business Ethics (Score:2, Insightful)
Tell me what I am missing here. (Score:4, Insightful)
Kyocera [kyocera.com] makes everything from ball-point pens to machine tools.
Kyocera is interested in things like data security in printing. Kyocera Mita America's Data Security Kit Offers Critical Data Protection of Stored Data on Color Multifunctional Products [kyoceramita.com] [November 14, 2007]
Microsoft is also interested in things like data security in printing.
Tell me why the Geek trots out his paranoia every time two companies that compliment each other sign a cross-licensing agreement.
If you read closely, (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft's Long Term Plan (Score:3, Interesting)
Once the next generation of hardware comes out, and you cant get a driver as its so tied up in the legal world that it can never escape, what will you have left to run? Why, officially endorsed Microsoft software and hardware of course.
It wont happen today, or tomorrow, but they have the time and money to think *really* long term ( like in decades ) on this
Probably XPS (Score:4, Informative)
The spec is freely available, but the introductory paragraphs in the spec suggest that implementing it without licenses is not permitted.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Standad MS business practice... (Score:5, Insightful)
He didn't port basic. He wrote a Basic interpreter for the 8080!
I am not a Microsoft fan. In fact I am a Linux user but give me a break.
If Bill Gates ported basic then the Samba team ported Microsoft networking and the Mysql team ported SQL!
Porting means you have the source code to a program and you get it to run on a new cpu. Gates, with some help wrote a Basic interpreter for a tiny cpu in assembly. He WROTE a version basic for the 8080. He didn't port it.
Parent
Re:Standad MS business practice... (Score:5, Interesting)
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