Novell Linux Business Spikes Since Microsoft Deal

StonyandCher writes "Novell's divisive deal with Microsoft has apparently resulted in some financial success for the company. PC World is now reporting that the company's Linux business has risen about 250% since the deal was announced last November. From the article: '[Novell director of marketing Justin Steinman] said part of its growth was directly related to the Microsoft deal, adding that Novell has billed more than US$100 million in business through its Microsoft relationship. He added that the growth was also due to the halo effect of the arrangement. "When we're out there competing with Red Hat, [our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft,' and customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."'"

Maybe there are other reasons

[LiquidCoooled (634315)]

It could be people are moving their business from SCO to Novell ;)
I don't know how much novell charges for their Linux but its got to be less than $650 per seat.

Marketing

[porkThreeWays (895269)]

and customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows

Which is pure marketing because all the major distributions work equally well (or not well) with Windows. What I guess people still don't get is you pay for a support contract, not the distribution. All the major distributions are all basically of the same quality and use almost the exact same software. Maaaaaaybe a few configuration tools are different, but they are configuring the same software so it doesn't matter.

Re:

[psbrogna (611644)]

"all the major distributions work equally well" Your statement above conflicts with what my personal experience has been (which has primarily been limited to many versions of Suse, Redhat, Centos, Yellowdog &Slackware). What I think you're trying to say is that all the major distributions CAN work the same way. As far as what they do out of the box though, ie. without reading how-to's and tweaking alien configuration files (alien that is if you're coming over from the Windows world), that is a differen

Re:

[RobertLTux (260313)]

this is also marketing but Novell does have that deal where they get access to certain bits of MS code
  (and supposedly MS coders are told not to do some stuff that will break the shared code)
If I had a business that was part MS part Linux I would have a SLED farm just to make sure i could get
THE CODE THAT THE EU COMMISSION SAID I COULD GET

Re:Marketing

[SpiritGod21 (884402)]

This is blatantly incorrect. I can connect SuSE to our Active Directory during installation through a GUI quite easily, or after installation at any time through the YaST administrative utility. In a Microsoft environment, SuSE makes things easy.

Ubuntu, on the other hand, requires roughly 3 hours of hacking and coding. Canonical has no interest whatsoever in making it play nice with Windows beyond implementing and supporting SMB.

Re:

[Penguinisto (415985)]

Ubuntu, on the other hand, requires roughly 3 hours of hacking and coding. Canonical has no interest whatsoever in making it play nice with Windows beyond implementing and supporting SMB.

Probably because Ubuntu and SuSE are aiming for two entirely different markets? (home desktop users v. enterprise business)?

Sort of like the reason why I wouldn't expect a typical Dell desktop to come with multiple hot-swap drive bays, two built-in NICs, or a RAID controller, nor would I expect a Dell server to come with a pair of GeForce 8800's in SLI configuration, y'know?

/P

Novell is more than just Linux

[LinuxDon (925232)]

Please remember that Novell offers much more than just the basic Linux stuff.
It offers a Novell client for windows, eDirectory, ZENworks, iFolder, iPrint, Groupwise etc, etc.
These are products targeted at managing Windows (and linux) workstations and servers but through a Linux server.
Novell products integrate seamlessly with Windows and they even (implicitly) solve many of the typical windows problems for you.

SLES on itself, however, does not offer a Windows advantage when compared to other distro's. It is

Nope, Suse does things smarter.

[duffbeer703 (177751)]

I totally disagree. Novell does some things that I am not happy about, but they have leveraged tools like Yast to make cumbersome configuration activities much easier and more reliable. Working with a Microsoft domain is a great example -- unless you have a heavily customized AD, Yast makes it VERY easy to become a member of the domain and authenticate users. Red Hat has the capability though Kerberos, LDAP and Samba, but it's harder to set it up.

In the long term, Red Hat is going to need a tool like Yast a

Re:

[Colin Smith (2679)]

Well, what's the point of having lots of different groups of people make their own distributions, then?

The freedom to do so.

HTH.
 

Re:Marketing

[porkThreeWays (895269)]

I never said they were the same, I said they all use basically the same software and major distributions are all of very high quality. I wouldn't exactly call Linspire or Gentoo "major" distros, but RHEL/Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu/Debian, are all very very very similar. I've been working with Linux and Unix in general for over 10 years and once you know what's under the hood, you realize distro wars are silly because they are all basically the same. What differs are high level configuration tools and support contracts. Regarding Windows interoperability, do you think MS has hacked together some super compatible version of Samba for Novell that Red Hat or Ubuntu don't have access to?

Re:

[IANAAC (692242)]

I've been working with Linux and Unix in general for over 10 years and once you know what's under the hood, you realize distro wars are silly because they are all basically the same.

You must not have had to install and maintain any sort of enterprise software (Oracle and Domino come to mind) on different distributions, or you would know that different distributions are indeed different. Library naming conventions and filesystem layout are two reasons that you only see certain distributions supported f

Re:

[aichpvee (631243)]

What does any of this have to do with "working with windows?"

Re:

[Etyenne (4915)]

File system layout have been standardized in the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard and, AFAIK, all Big Three (Red Hat, Novell, Ubuntu) have been adhering to it pretty strictly. Anyway, third-party commercial applications should go in /opt and not mess around with the rest of the system, period.

Different distros ship different version of libraries, yes. But naming convention for libraries differ from distro to distro ? I do not understand what you talk about here.

And, yes, I have installed "enterprise" softwa

Re:

[guruevi (827432)]

Yes, they're all the same. They're all POSIX compliant, most run on the x86 architecture (both 32-bit and 64-bit) and they have a similar kernel, similar hardware support etc.

The few reason you pick is because: useability out-of-the-box (I can't imagine someone new to Linux using Linux From Scratch or Gentoo), package management (do you like emerge, apt-get or rpm/yum?), available packages from vendor and stability/security thereof (one of the reasons people use Debian or Red Hat for servers and Ubuntu for

Re:Marketing

[ta bu shi da yu (687699)]

Alternatively, it appears, you choose Novell's distro because "it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows". Good to see CIOs are making rational business decisions.

Re:

[trolltalk.com (1108067)]

"> Alternatively, it appears, you choose Novell's distro because "it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows". Good to see CIOs are making rational business decisions."

Since when is the computer world run based on rational decisions? If it were, we'd have all been using motorola cpus with flat memory spaces, not intel segmented-architecture, people would have realized that Windows 3.0 was, for the longest time, just vaporware, nobody would have bought Windows ME, or Microsoft Off

Re:

[jav1231 (539129)]

Exactly. Microsoft continues to be the OS for the ignorant. I can simply pick Microsoft "because" and know I've made a choice that a lot of other people have made. Ultimately, I can rely on the ignorance of everyone else and know I'm risking very little. My ROI may not be as good as with another Linux but I, nor anyone else in my company with a voice, will likely ever know it. Hope these lemmings can swim.

Re:

[jollyreaper (513215)]

Really? That's news to me! So then Red Hat Enterprise Edition is the same as Linspire? Gentoo and Ubuntu are the same? SUSE and Fedora? Wow. Well, what's the point of having lots of different groups of people make their own distributions, then?

It's a conspiracy amongst CD manufacturers! It's too late for me but you, you still might have a chance! Run, and tell the world! *GASP!* [dies]

This story sound familiar?

[sammy baby (14909)]

"When we're out there competing with Red Hat, [our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft,' and customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."

Translation 1:

Wow! That "embrace" part was great, and this "extend" phase is fantastic! I wonder what's next?

Translation 2:

Wow! These guards are great - they gave me a delicious meal, and now they're taking me out to meet their "squad!" Wonder why they want me blindfolded?

More seriously: I haven't worked with Novell stuff since this deal was announced. Anyone have any insight as to how much easier it really is to integrate with Microsoft stuff?

Re:

[jimstapleton (999106)]

Wow, talk about OT.

If you think MS has the power to E^3 Linux...

Well, I have this bridge in Kansas, it connects two mountains, and has a great ocean view. Just $1,000,000.00 CAN.
Send me the check/money order, the bridge will be in the mail after it clears.

Re:

[mhall119 (1035984)]

Wow, talk about OT.

Really, you think so? If Novell is banking their business on selling their Microsoft relationship, what do you think is going to happen to that business when Microsoft backs out of their deal, and start publicly denouncing Suse's inability to remain compatible?

This really is classic Microsoft strategy, make your competitor's success dependent on your compliance to something (HTML, Java, CIFS, OS/2), then stop complying with it. Microsoft's market weight guarantees that customers will follow them, and not

Re:

[jimstapleton (999106)]

what do you think is going to happen to that business when Microsoft backs out of their deal, and start publicly denouncing Suse's inability to remain compatible?

SUSE will loose market share, and may even go to the Linux-distro graveyard. But remember, while SUSE is Linux, Linux is not SUSE.

This really is classic Microsoft strategy, make your competitor's success dependent on your compliance to something (HTML, Java, CIFS, OS/2), then stop complying with it. Microsoft's market weight guarantees that custome

Re:

[mhall119 (1035984)]

SUSE will loose market share, and may even go to the Linux-distro graveyard. But remember, while SUSE is Linux, Linux is not SUSE.

My post and, I suspect, the original post that started all of this, are talking about Suse, not Linux in general (since Linux in general hasn't signed a co-op agreement with Microsoft).

Linux has a lot more loyalty than some of your examples

True, but Suse really doesn't. Linux may have nothing to worry about, but Novell sure enough does.

If MS is trying an E^3 with this, they might as well try putting their guns to their collective feet, because, they aren't going to decrease the popularity of Linux below what it would have been without their intervention. They may raise it above that level however...

If Microsoft can kill off Novell, and Linspire and Xandros just for fun, I think they will be pleased with the result of their deal. Probably they would have liked to hook Red Hat as well to kill the top 2 commercial provide

Re:

[jimstapleton (999106)]

I guess I don't see the big deal.

MS might hurt some companies making less than brilliant decisions. So what? It won't hurt Linux.

Re:

[mhall119 (1035984)]

It never was a big deal, we're just mocking Novell for making "less than brilliant decisions".

Re:

[Mongoose Disciple (722373)]

Microsoft beating down Suse at this stage? Sure, I think they could do that much in the manner you describe.

Question is, what does that really get you, if you're Microsoft?

It doesn't make Linux in general go away.

Even if we take as granted the idea that Microsoft is evil and focused on the utter destruction of all that is free, this isn't a smart way to do it. They're in a better position to influence the community and drive business their way by supporting Suse than by crushing it.

Re:

[sammy baby (14909)]

Wow, talk about OT.

If you think MS has the power to E^3 Linux...

For the record: I don't.

But I absolutely think that Microsoft would like nothing better than to "control" the growth of Linux by partnering with a major Linux vendor. Let's say as a hypothetical that Novell managed to wrest a sizable majority of corporate/enterprise level business from Red Hat. Do you think that Microsoft would hesitate for a second to put a shiv in Novell's back if they thought it would remove a major competitor?

Re:

[flyingfsck (986395)]

I think the Mandriva wizards for Samba and Active Directory integration are better than Novell's. However, the end result is the same - they both work and the both use Samba, Winbind and PAM.

Re:

[grasshoppa (657393)]

Anyone have any insight as to how much easier it really is to integrate with Microsoft stuff?

Same crap as before, no change on the front lines. You still have a gazillion different management interfaces ( imanager, remote manager, consoleone ). You still have a hodgepodge of software that make up their flagship products ( zenworks, groupwise ). Novell still has a pretty good file server, but actually administrating the software is painful still.

Talk about a PR scam...

[tgatliff (311583)]

If this isnt a PR pushed document, I dont know what is.... Of course Novell's business increased simply due to the fact of M$ handing out vouchers to people which M$ then ends up paying for when they give it to someone. What they would like to give the impression is that this makes people feel safe, so they go this route instead of the unsafe route with RedHat. You will also notice that they did not point out the Redhat had an amazing quarter as well with them attributing it to botched Vista rollout.... Hm... I wonder why they felt compelled to release this press release now?? :-)

Re:Talk about a PR scam...

[arivanov (12034)]

Nothing to do with botched Vista rollouts or MSFT vouchers.

Linux vendors best quarters are the quarters when the financial market looks plain ugly. As a result people presenting projects to CIOs have to start making "immediate savings" noises instead of the usual TCO noises to get budgets approved. As a result the Linux vendors get a jump in revenue.

Disclaimer: I very well knoe that Linux TCO is considerably less than MSFT (as most of Slashdot). I am not a CIO though :-)

Red Hat is also doing well

[sayfawa (1099071)]

The Aussie PC World has a current article [idg.com.au] about Red Hat's profits which are also up heavily since last year.

So maybe Novell and Red Hat's recent success is independent of the MS deal.

Re:

[everphilski (877346)]

64% vs. 243% ... slightly different orders of magnitude. Note both articles make different attributions to success: Novell to subscriptions and Red Hat to overseas expansion, particularly in Japan.

Re:

[everphilski (877346)]

Yeah, those darned less-than-a-third-of-an-order-of-magnitude-orders.

Well, if you were to invest your dollar, would you want a 64% return ($0.64) or a 243% return ($2.43)?

Re:

[Per Abrahamsen (1397)]

> Well, if you were to invest your dollar, would you want a 64% return ($0.64) or a 243% return
($2.43)?

I'd prefer an order of magnitude better ($6.40).

Re:

[everphilski (877346)]

Keep in mind though that Red Hat is significantly larger than Novell. They do more Linux business in the first place, so a smaller percentage growth is more significant.

Not really. Percentages are percentages. Growth normalized to the size of the company. They may have had more business, but they had more to start with.

Also, note the wording in the article. They have netted $100M in new business, above and beyond what they were attaining before the deal (which granted wasn't all that hot).

Another in

One or two customers

[xzvf (924443)]

Wal Mart going to Novell is enough to spike the numbers 250%. Red Hat had a solid quarter even with the drag of JBoss. Maybe the increase has a lot to do with Linux moving past the "Replace expensive proprietary Unix Phase" where hardware costs in addition to software costs made the savings obvious to pin head bosses, and is now moving into the "Replace hard to manage and support Windows phase" where the initial cost advantage is lower and required the establishment and training of quality Linux administrators? Unix replacement phase created the staff and cost advantages to allow for easier justification of Windows replacement. The fact that Novell is up significantly from practically nothing, and Red Hat is growing solidly from a strong base, indicates deeper market penetration for Linux.

Re:

[mr_mischief (456295)]

Lots of it is probably, "Replace the rest of our proprietary Unix on x86 because SCO's not going to be around to support us and that whole specter of them suing anyone else is long gone", combined with "Well, if there are any conflicts between Unix and Linux, Novell is surely aware of them now and is willing to sell Linux under the GPL anyway. So there's no chance they can claim what SCO tried to claim."

Do you expect SCO customers to all switch to Solaris or AIX? I sure don't.

Clearly a piece of PR puff

[jimicus (737525)]

From the summary:

"customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."

Define "works with Windows".

Can speak TCP/IP? Yep, no problem. (I've met plenty of Windows-centric IT people who seem to think networking is some sort of black magic and two different operating systems cannot coexist on a network.)

Can see windows file shares and share files with Windows servers through SMB? Any distribution will do that.

Integrates perfectly with Active

Re:Clearly a piece of PR puff

[badfish99 (826052)]

I've met plenty of Windows-centric IT people who seem to think networking is some sort of black magic

I'm not surprised. Getting two Windows boxes to talk to each other on a network is black magic.

Re:

[Pecisk (688001)]

Wtf moderators, it's not *Funny*, it's *Insightful* post! :)

What Microsoft have done to SMB protocol is similar how Orcs where created - twisted, tragic parody of real stuff. Starting from Windows 2000, SAMBA actually are more realible than Windows server, from my expierence (For others it could be different. It is also one element of that black magic :)).

Meaning...

[Capt James McCarthy (860294)]

Describe 'works with windows.' Are you having a cluster of mix OSs or is one managing the other?

You have to figure that should another desktop start to take over that MS would just buy them.

Novell's taking advantage of dumb customers

[TemporalBeing (803363)]

"When we're out there competing with Red Hat, [our salespeople] are saying, 'Our Linux is recommended by Microsoft,' and customers that already have a Windows investment say it seems to make sense to pick the Linux that works with Windows."'"

So they're basically taking advantage of dumb customers that don't know much, if anything, about Linux as basically all Linux distros use the same software (e.g. Samba) - however, they vary in their packaging and support software & tools - to achieve that interoperability. It has nothing to do with being "blessed" by Microsoft - which is really just a death sentence - kind of like the one Hitler had in mind for Japan, and Italy, and the one he did try to carry out on Russia:

1. Make some "allies" and sign some "treaties"
2. Let your "allies" help you carry out your "war" on the "enemy"
3. Wipe out most everyone together with your "allies"
4. Turn on your "allies" one by one without telling the others
5. Wipe out your "allies" last when they are least suspecting it

Funny - Hitler had and Microsoft has the same basic plans. Just substitute "competitors" for "enemies" and "partners" for "allies".

Re:

[e4g4 (533831)]

Hehe - looks like Godwin kicked in a little early in this discussion :P

Novell - Coming to Xbox Live?

[Alzheimers (467217)]

He added that the growth was also due to the halo effect of the arrangement.

Maybe all the problems with Active Directory is what causes A.I. Rampancy [wikipedia.org]

It's cool

[old_skul (566766)]

I for one welcome our new SuSE overlords.

No one ever went broke...

[Shotgun (30919)]

No one ever went broke counting on the stupidity of the corporate manager.

SUSE 10.0 is sleek indeed

[snikulin (889460)]

I have SUSE Enterprise Desktop at work (we are in MS Srv2003 world).
It's very nice as a corporate desktop.

Pros:
It has connected to our Directory seamlessly during installation.
All network printers and shares are OK, with correct access rights.
Installation and driver support, IMO is the best among all Linuxen( ~xes? :).
The domain controller recognized it as a domain member and listed it as such.
Nice and laconic KDE (but the installation defaults to Gnome).
Slack-derived init scripts and layout (well, I person

Re:

[psbrogna (611644)]

They usually mean common (shared) file sharing & authentication service. I'm sure in certain cases this extends to other services but I'm pretty sure these two cover the vast majority of the functionality referred to.

Re:

[ColdWetDog (752185)]

No, no no. You've got it wrong. He gave you a car analogy. You have to do the same otherwise the OP won't know what you're talking about.

Let's try this:

- Your Beetle and your Porsche can coexist in the same garage without starting a fire.
- For some iterations of Beetles and Porsches you can use the same distributor and spark plugs (think the very old 914's).
- They both have documentation available in German.

Got the idea now?