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Palm Unveils Foleo, Linux-Based "Mobile Companion"

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wed May 30, 2007 03:34 PM
from the too-little-too-late-or-lifesaver dept.
Software Handhelds Linux Hardware
An anonymous reader writes "Contrary to recent rumors, it's not Palm's first Linux smartphone, and no, it's not a competitor to Nokia's Linux-based N800 Internet Tablet. Rather, Palm today unveiled the Foleo, which it's calling a 'new class' of mobile device. The device is designed to expand the email, Internet, and productivity application capabilities of mobile phones such as the Palm Treo, by adding a full-size keyboard and a larger screen. Company founder Jeff Hawkins predicts that the Foleo will be more successful than Palm's original Palm Pilot, which he designed, and more successful than its current Treo smartphones. He touts its simplicity: 'Press a button, it's on. Press it again, it's off. There are no other modes.'"
+ -
story

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[+] Hardware: Linux Based Nokia N800 Internet Tablet Reviewed 127 comments
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Palm Unveils Foleo, Linux-Based "Mobile Companion" 50 Comments More /

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  • Small, low-power Linux laptop....

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by xzvf (924443)
      That's what I'm thinking. I travel a lot and would love a small low power laptop with a real keyboard. I've found that I really don't need much more than a browser, document creator and a terminal connection to servers for heavy lifting. Very good price point in comparision to sub-notebooks and the n800 (which I like a lot, but I can't type on it). If it's fairly open so I can add some basic sysadm tools and run a terminal, I'd seriously consider it.

            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              by ryanov (193048)
              If it's anything like the Treo, just use any of your run-of-the-mill productivity apps... you'll be restarting the whole device in short order. ;)

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      exactly what i was thinking, just not nearly as cynical.

      i was thinking something more along the lines of 'when will these idiots learn that hardly anyone would ever buy shit like this.'

      what really pains me is that some people, hell, alot of people put all their energy and time into making this, and i'm sure several of them knew 'this is going to flop. im wasting my time. at least im still getting my paycheck, though.'.

      i'm fairly certain that there are full blown laptops smaller than this. (with more

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by couchslug (175151)
        "i'm fairly certain we will yet see more and more useless devices like this end up new-in-box, on ebay, for a fraction of the initial msrp, before this year is out."

        Sweet! More stuff for Slashdotters to play with! Someone elses business model is not my problem.
        Cool hackables for cheap works for me and many other geeks.

        Some examples from the past:

        http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/Ult raBoard.pl [linux-hacker.net]
    • Does about 1/3 as much as my MacBook and costs as much as a cheap laptop at Fry's....

      2 cents,

      QueenB.

    • Just like a re-gutted Psion 7... great! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EmbeddedJanitor (597831) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @04:04PM (#19327593)
      I have a psion 7 running Epoch and an old CPU. This is a very handy form factor. I've been hoping for a new release but sadly Psion is no more. I think this is it.

      It is pointless trying to stuff productivity applications into a PDA format. Try doing word even simple processing on a PDA or blackberry.

      This is also much more like what an OLPC should be. ARM == low power & cost relative to an x86. I think OPLC got it wrong when they went x86 - which looks like it was done solely to support Windows. Linux runs great on ARM (there are probably more Linux devices using ARM than x86).

      • Re:Just like a re-gutted Psion 7... great! (Score:4, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 30 2007, @04:24PM (#19327941)
        I've spent the last couple years of my life working with desktop-class apps on ARM. Here's my experience:

        Linux may run on ARM, but desktop-class Linux applications run very poorly, if at all. For example Firefox is a dog, as is pretty much anything interpreted (especially javascript - ugh!). Lack of a large L2 cache is a primary culprit. Lack of an FPU in most ARM implementations is a problem as well.

        ARM/Linux has dragged behind the mainstream x86 kernel as well. NPTL on ARM was very late, which made porting many things a hassle. The EABI transition wasn't much fun either.

        Another big problem is that media playback is slow/limited if it works at all (Flash + other browser plugins for ARM are quite scarce). Optimization is often done for x86 extensions (MMX/SSE/etc). That code is key to performance in many media applications, and even if you're lucky enough to have something like WMMX on your ARM CPU, you still have to port the x86 code. That's a drag.

        It's my opinion that OLPC made the right choice by selecting x86 over ARM. The Geode GX was a bad move, fortunately they fixed that by switching to the Geode LX.

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by megaditto (982598)
              I am playing full-screen (320x480) full-length videos on my Palm T5 that is ARM based and about 2 years old.

              I am pretty sure the new thing will be able to do at least that much.

              You don't need that much power to play videos anyways. An old 300 MHz iBook will play divx videos fullscreen just fine, too.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by pavon (30274)

        This is also much more like what an OLPC should be.

        Why? It is 4x the cost, has a shorter battery life, and at first glance doesn't appear to me to be as useful for a standalone machine compared to the OLPC machine.

        I think OPLC got it wrong when they went x86 - which looks like it was done solely to support Windows.

        Why would they do that when the official OLPC doesn't run windows. All the rumors about it doing so are just about Quanta (the company hired to manufacture it) saying they might make an OLPC-like computer and sell it to the general masses. The OLPC project went with x86 because they got a good deal from AMD and because support for other architec

      • what i want (Score:4, Interesting)

        by wytcld (179112) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @04:56PM (#19328517) Homepage
        I've been carrying around Zaurus clamshells for several years, and while I wouldn't want to do word processing on them, I use them with text editor (joe) and outliner (hnb) daily. The Zaurus is also fine for using ssh to remote administer *nix systems and to remotely read mail over mutt from my desktop. It's also fine as a Web browser. There's quite a lot I've gotten written that I never would have without it, since it's just not practical to always carry a laptop, and ideas both don't show up on schedule, and more often come to me when I'm out in the world in the midst of other business. My typing's slowed down by the small keyboard, but it's still faster than my handwriting, and it's much more useful to end up with the results in a computer file than in a stack of small paper notebooks.

        Now, it would be nice to have something sized between the Zaurus and a subnotebook - a little more screen and a little more keyboard would work better for editing. But the top size I'd want would equal a trade paperback, with not much more weight than that. I still want something that I can carry easily in my hand - perhaps along with a book or two - if it can't go in a pocket. And for sure I want it running Linux, like the Zaurus does, like all my systems do. ARM would do fine - I've no speed complaints about the Zaurus at all for my uses.

        The natural question is how many people there are like me. Back in the early 80s, those Kaypros and Osbornes were largely bought by people wanting superior writing tools - and the degree of portability they had was important to this market. For writing, text editors are still better tools than word processors - which are really aimed squarely at churning out business letters. (Real layout is another thing, and best done on a workstation.) I don't thing there's even one example of a well-optimized writer's machine now - of the sort of thing a news reporter or trail-wandering poet would find truly ideal. But it's precisely in the space between pocket-fitting Zauruses and subnotebooks that such a machine someday has to arrive, and if it's done right succeed wildly.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by cheater512 (783349)
          a) They use ARM on all their PDAs
          b) x86 cannot support the instant on/off thing. ARM can
          c) Its very light on the battery

          Its a logical choice to use ARM on such a device.

  • whoop-de-do (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wiggles (30088) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:37PM (#19327105)
    It's too big to be a PDA, too small to be a laptop. This thing looks like a solution looking for a problem. Other than the fact that it's a portable device that runs Linux, I see no reason to spend $500 on this. I'd rather buy a sub-notebook and have the extra functionality.
    • Like the Psion Netbook this thing is for a pretty limited market. It would likely function best running something like Sales Force or SAP-ish stuff. But, those markets often require specific functionality as well, like barcode readers.

      It will be interesting to see how Palm created the interface to the Linux core.
    • I used a Toshiba Libretto and later a Sony Picturebook for quite a while. Both very similar, pocket-sized but full function laptops. With a smart phone and a portable printer, I could get a portable office and development environment in under five pounds and in carry-on luggage. With a battery upgrade, I got 8-12 hours use. I also had network diagnostic tools and adapters. It was not for heavy work, but for getting things done when I was stuck unexpectedly one place or another and I did not want to lug a lo

    • Re:whoop-de-do (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Jeff DeMaagd (2015) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @05:29PM (#19329119) Homepage Journal
      Most decent subnotebooks are around $2000, and they have a boot-up time.

      I kind of like the idea of pressing a button and it's just running, rather than waiting a minute or two for a notebook to boot up.

      I really don't understand the name - "Foleo" is a dumb distortion of "folio".

  • Bad on/off interface (Score:3, Funny)

    by Animats (122034) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:38PM (#19327117) Homepage

    'Press a button, it's on. Press it again, it's off. There are no other modes.'

    Power controls like that are always a pain. You have to look to see if they're on to turn them off. And if they have other states, like "booting", "shutting down", or "crashed", it's even worse. Two buttons, "On" and "Off", please.

    • Eh?

      Perhaps you haven't noticed, but practically everything has a single on/off button.
      Infact, I cannot think of anything with separate buttons, certainly there is a case for rocker switches and toggles, but not two distinct buttons.
    • Let's see... TV, Stereo, Light switch, speakers, coffee pot, coffee grinder, monitor, computer, power strip. Yep, everything around me that uses electricity has a single button for on and off. The only thing I can thing of off the top of my head that doesn't is my blender, and that's because of variable speeds. What device have you seen that has a separate button for on and off?
      • What device have you seen that has a separate button for on and off?

        Big shop tools do (my drill press, for instance).

        A slider would be much better in this case, I think. The Treo already has one on top.

  • And the point is? What? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nweaver (113078) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:38PM (#19327125) Homepage
    It looks like a subnotebook, it walks like a subnotebook, it bounces around in the briefcase like a subnotebook...

    So why not get a real notebook?

    • So why not get a real notebook?
      Perhaps it has a superior UI? That's the reason Apple has been soaring recently. It's not that their hardware is amazing. It's that they actually hire competent HCI engineers.
    • It looks like a subnotebook, it walks like a subnotebook, it bounces around in the briefcase like a subnotebook...

      Disadvantages of a real subnotebook: fragile, expensive, gets malware (Windows), interfacing to use Bluetooth DUN can be hit-or-miss, esp. for the salesmen of the world, an extra machine to sysadmin. Does this thing have VGA out for PowerPointing?

      I'd be happy to find a linux subnotebook of similar formfactor in a similar price range, if anybody has pointers.
  • Bwahahahahahahhhahahahah!!! This is Palm's next great idea? Really?
  • I'll just take a OLTP or Classmate.



    Tech execution (features) of this looks good. Business execution looks inversely proportional.



    Piconets are good.

  • I understand aiming this at people looking for a low-level laptop replacement, but as an alternative to a Blackberry or some smartphone? Look at the size of the thing...what's the killer app that's going to convince people to pick this up?

  • And I'd Want This...Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mmurphy000 (556983) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:41PM (#19327173)

    A 2.5-pound notebook running Linux with WiFi and Bluetooth sounds sweet...but one report [techdirt.com] says it's a closed system, which means until somebody hacks past that limitation, it's a dead-end. For about $500, I'm expecting at least a mostly-open system (like Maemo with the Nokia N800).

    • I see it being a non-system. Who is going to buy this in enough volume to keep it alive?

      For $200, then you might be able to sell enough of them.
  • This, while not a terrible idea, will only be a good one is it runs at a price that is super competitive. Like 100-150. Otherwise, they'll be trying to sell only to a segment that already can afford a notebook and probably already has one.

  • Palm, Inc. jumps shark. Founder sells 15000 shares (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Torqued (91619) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:42PM (#19327177) Journal
    FTW?

    Looks like Jeff Hawkins is so confident in the Fooleo that he decided to dump 15000 shares of PALM [forbes.com].

    Instead of spending R&D $ to fix the issues with their aging OS, they "invent" another piece of hardware that neither me nor any of my coworkers want to have to carry around. We already have notebooks.

    Palm has officially jumped the shark, IMHO. Looks like I'm getting a Blackberry soon. :(
    • I already have a notebook, but I still want one of these. It's actually the first Palm product I have ever coveted.

      My main machine is a 15" Core 2 Duo Macbook pro... and it's just not portable enough. 2 hour battery life, yipee. I keep (and carry when I travel, along with the MBP) a G4 powerbook and spare battery for when I just want to bash out some text or leech wifi. My N95 is ok, but it just doesn't have enough screen space or a keyboard I can type on, unlike this thing.

      If I could replace my Powerbook w
    • Palm doesn't own PalmOS, so they have to choose things they have control over for their development. They appear to be replacing PalmOS with Windows Mobile and Linux anyway.

      What good is stock as compensation if you can't ever sell it and spend the cash?

      I think this device is pretty cool. You would have a hard time paying me enough to carry a laptop around, but a lightweight device with really long battery life, low price, and wireless? That's a different story. I bet these are expensive though...

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Cereal Box (4286)
        What good is stock as compensation if you can't ever sell it and spend the cash?

        No one says you "can't" sell it, but if Hawkins truly thought Palm had a hit on their hands he'd be stupid to sell before the product is released. Ergo, by selling now, he demonstrates that he has little faith in the Folly-o.

  • Battery life! Battery life! Battery life??? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by G4from128k (686170) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:46PM (#19327255)
    I hope this device actually gets a decent battery life. I've been frustrated that all the new PDAs have worse battery life than the early generation machines. The venerable (and discontinued) Psion 5-series got 25-35 hours of use on a pair for AAs and the original Palm Pilot series got maybe 15-20 hours on a AAAs. Every device since those machines has been distinctly inferior (usually getting only a few hours of real use per charge). If the new machine can't last a full day at a conference or a trans-oceanic flight, then I'll just keep using those older (and better) machines.
  • I had hoped it might be like a VR3 [linuxdevices.com] with updated hardware, but no... Darn.
    Please, please can somebody build a VR3 with a GB of Flash, 256 MB RAM and a faster ARM? The concept was fantastic, it just needed a little more performance.

  • IBM WorkPad, meet the Toshiba Libretto (Score:3, Funny)

    by kenh (9056) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:49PM (#19327323) Homepage Journal
    Come on - this is new? It looks like beter executions on a five+ year-old product.

    Take a look at the IBM z50 [hpcfactor.com]

    And the Toshiba Libretto [pcmag.com]

    And remind me, what is the new product here - faster CPU? Better battery life? Oh wait, it runs LINUX! When can I pre-order it?
  • As the owner of a Fujitsu P2000 (P2120 specifically) this is certainly a device I'm interested in, but 5 hours of battery life is way too short and I don't see much to indicate whether this is a fully open Linux system.

    I'm running WinXP Pro on my P2000 and although it's getting on in age and leaves a lot to be desired in the CPU department (Transmeta CPUs never lived up to the hype), I certainly wouldn't trade it in on a locked down device.

    If this thing from Palm doesn't support fully open installation of s

  • Lame (Score:3, Funny)

    by SuperBanana (662181) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:58PM (#19327435)
    No "on" switch. No "off" switch. Lame.

  • Needs a sexier name (Score:3, Funny)

    by anneha (1051480) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @03:59PM (#19327491)
    I'm thinking about "Palm Fellacio"
  • Unless that email client has search-based folders ala Gmail, and Mail.app, welcome to the last fucking century.
  • ... the actual press release [blogs.com], including the estimated price - $600-$700.
  • I see what he's going for... this is basically the old Apple DuoDock concept applied to a phone, where the phone is the core device and you can use a bigger, less-conveniently-sized device to extend the utility a bit. [And yes, as I was writing this I noticed this comparison has been made elsewhere by now]

    Great.

    How about instead of obex and proprietary and this and that, "they" start making cell phones that "just appear" within one's device landscape? For example, when I place my cell phone near my comput

  • Maybe it is a new class of device (Score:3, Interesting)

    by fozzmeister (160968) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @04:42PM (#19328249)
    But heck, A PC maker could make one tomorrow nearly, chuck a transmetta/via chip in a uber small laptop chassis, remove all the perhipherals, add maybe 2GB flash instead of a HDD and something like XFCE and your mostly there. All you'd have to do is figure out the mobile phone syncing stuff which ain't going to be too hard.

    Personally I like it, though I'm a programmer and need a proper laptop, although I can see that this _may_ fit a niche/market.

  • IBM Workpad z50 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SheldonYoung (25077) on Wednesday May 30 2007, @05:03PM (#19328619)
    This thing reminds me a lot of the IBM Workpad z50 [hpcfactor.com] I had. Yes, it's not as powerful as a laptop. Yes, it's bigger than a PDA. But I still miss the little thing. Sometimes you just need a full-sized keyboard and reasonable display and don't want the overhead of a laptop. I don't care if I can't run Eclipse. I don't care if it won't run some hulking Adobe application, I just want something a step up from a word processor where I can write documents and code fragments that gets out of the way and lets me think about the problem. I want to turn it on and start typing, not sit there stewing while it boots or lose my concentration because applications are nagging me about trivial updates.

    Think of it as a modern Tandy 102 and it begins to make sense. I'm not sure I trust Palm the company, but that's somewhat unrelated to this specific piece of hardware.

  • I've always wanted something with the libretto form factor with a modern processor, memory, etc. Could this be what I'm looking for?

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