Screencasts of Installing MythTV Via MythDora 4.0

peterdaly writes "MythDora 4 is a MythTV 'in-a-box' style distribution based on Fedora Core 6. With the help of a RedHat employee and author Jarod Wilson, MythDora 4 has made great strides in hardware compatibility and ease of installation. It is designed to format your hard drive and install everything needed for a fully functional MythTV System. MythPVR.com has created a three-part screencast of the installation process covering MythDora installation, configuration, and MythTV setup. If you have had problem installing MythTV in the past due to hardware compatibility issues, it might be time to give it another chance."

Fedora?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371)]

Having recently fled from the barren dependency hell of Fedora, (to Feisty), I am perplexed as to why anyone wanting to install a user friendly Linux distro of any kind would choose Fedora as their base distro. Hardware detection was... OK, but there were innumerable problems with package management, configurations and yes, software availability. I mean, will the box play mp3 files? DVDs? Fedora is not a distro known for these capabilities.

Re:

[QuantumG (50515)]

I don't disagree, but other people will. Is there any way out of packaging fragmentation lane? Exactly how egregious would RedHat's packaging have to be before people switched to debs? Alternatively, what could possibly get people to switch to rpms?

Re:

[vidarh (309115)]

I like RPM, but that is a problem. Particularly when the dependencies doesn't specify what the package need to operate, but what it need to operate in a specific way. There's plenty of cases where you can just rebuild an RPM with a Require: entry taken out and everything works fine... I'd love to see a way of specifying "recommended" dependencies, that doesn't have to be present, but that will add capabilities. It could dramatically cut dependencies for a huge number of RPMs.

Another issue, though, is that

Re:Fedora?

[scribblej (195445)]

As someone who has been running MythTV on Ubuntu boxes for years now, I agree. Skip Redhat.

Installing MythTV on modern versions of Ubuntu is easy:

apt-get install mythtv-server mythtv-frontend

That's it, you're done*!

(* I assume; I run my clients and server on seperate machines and the server is still a few versions behind the Ubuntu curve)

Re:Fedora?

[Abcd1234 (188840)]

Meh, the same is true of Fedora, which is what I used to build my myth front/backends. Honestly, why all the hate?

Re:

[scribblej (195445)]

Well, I'm not a hater... Fedora's package management was atrocious the last time I tried it, abotu seven years ago. To say it is now wouldn't be fair of me.

What I love about Debian and therefore Ubuntu is ... if it's not in the package manager, I probably shouldn't be running it. Redhat encourages people to download packages from third-parties(*)... which is going to be a real problem if it ever becomes widely adpoted.

(* because so few things are available as part of a distro. Last time I checked the dif

Re:

[LDoggg_ (659725)]

(* because so few things are available as part of a distro. Last time I checked the difference was something like 16,000 packages in Debian and 1000 in Redhat?)

Core & Extras (the default setup repos), in Fedora not Redhat, currently have a little over 7,000 packages.

Plenty more if you enable livna or atrpms for patent-encumbered/restricted things.

Re:

[gregbaker (22648)]

I just did a fresh MythTV install with Feisty a few weeks ago, and that was it exactly. It automatically recognized my Hauppauge 250, and all was good.

I had to edit a couple of lines in the LIRC config for the remote, but that was all.

Re:

[jridley (9305)]

I tried building my myth box on ubuntu last weekend. Ubuntu and myth were trivial, but I spent a good 6 hours and read about a dozen howtos and couldn't get lirc running my pvr150 remote and blaster. Even if everything else is working perfectly, it's a no-go without lirc. This happens to me every time; everything except for one dumb thing works and I'm SOL.

Re:

[Kadin2048 (468275)]

You might try Knoppmyth; it's a Debian semi-equivalent to MythDora. I have a PVR-150 and I'm in the process of getting it set up with the remote. It's not quite out-of-the-box ready, you still need to do some tweaking for the PVR-150s receiver and blaster, but it's not too bad (or so I've heard).

They have some decent support forums too, although unfortunately they're not open to the public (you have to register even to read, for reasons I don't quite get -- bandwidth, maybe). There should be a HOWTO in ther

Re:

[CastrTroy (595695)]

Really, so that installs and configures and sets up the databases for MySQL? Does that set up all your channels, the XML TV feed and all the other stuff that is required. After messing around with MythTV for a few hours and getting no where, I found SageTV and bought that. I've been happy ever since. I'm using the windows version right now, but they do have a Linux version, and if it works even half as good as the windows version, then it beats MythTV hands down. Especially on the ease of setup issue

Re:

[LDoggg_ (659725)]

I mean, will the box play mp3 files? DVDs? Fedora is not a distro known for these capabilities.

Both distros share the same philosophy with regards to packaging patent encumbered things like mp3 and DVD decoders in the main distro and repos. It is very simple on both of these to add them in post-install.

Fiesty does make it a bit easier, but to be fair Fedora 6 was released quite a bit earlier than fiesty, let's pass judgement next week when Fedora 7 is released.

Re:

[LDoggg_ (659725)]

attitudes like that are what make linux such a loser on the desktop - people don't give a shit about patents or copyright, they just want something that works.

The attitude of not wanting to get sued?
Of course people just want something that works, but it's not the responsibility of Canonical or Redhat to pay for that, especially when you're already downloading the distro for free. And it's not like it's hard to get the codecs from places that aren't big supporters of software patents.

software is not a p

Computers have always been political.

[jbn-o (555068)]

People care about avoiding lawsuits and yet it looks like one of the major suppliers of MP3 players recently lost a large patent infringement lawsuit earlier this year to the tune of billions of dollars (no doubt an appeal is pending). If the patent holder isn't paid off, the patent holder has the power to create a huge hassle for lots of ordinary people who will turn to their proprietor and ask why they didn't charge enough money to pay for the requisite licensing fee (or why a loyal customer would be lef

Re:

[jddj (1085169)]

That's what KnoppMyth is for.

Have to say that I wasn't a fan of the look-and-feel of the KnoppMyth setup last time I looked at it (for openers, I'm in the can't-stand-KDE camp...). It -IS- great to have a fantastic bootable-CD of this project.

Ordinarily this isn't a problem - don't like what your distro provides, install something else, right?

The thing is, you go for MythDora or Knoppix to pretty much have an appliance. You change something on your own, no telling how you'll get the box like you want it nex

Re:

[caseih (160668)]

What a silly statement. In the case of either distribution, it's a matter of having a good repository. Ubuntu is not somehow magically free from dependency hell. It's just that Ubuntu happens to have very good and very extensive repositories. Likewise, Fedora has a large number of third-party repository that covers a wide range of software needs, including MythTV. The only time I've ever really gotten into dependency hell was some years ago with Debian itself. Honestly there are lots of arguments you

This should be good

[DragonHawk (21256)]

With the parent as such a fine example, I look forward to an unbiased, unemotional discussion on the pros and cons of different Linux distributions. I'm sure it will be based entirely on objective facts, supported by careful citations, and not contain any anecdotal evidence or personal opinions.

Re:

[msevior (145103)]

As someone who runs both Ubuntu and FC6 distros, I think you have it backwards...

For FC6 just install the livna rpm's like this:

# rpm -Uhv http://rpm.livna.org/livna-release-6.rpm [livna.org]
# rpm --import http://rpm.livna.org/RPM-LIVNA-GPG-KEY [livna.org]

and enjoy the benefits of all the grey packages delivered via yum. Personally, I like the Fedora approach of giving totally free products a boost.

The main benefit of Fedora over over Ubuntu is the actively maintained Fedora Extra's. These are generally updated as soon as the upst

Re:

[Blakey Rat (99501)]

I am perplexed as to why anyone wanting to install a user friendly Linux distro of any kind would choose Fedora as their base distro.

Anybody wanting to install a user friendly Linux distro doesn't know what a "Linux distro" is and doesn't want to learn. They'll install whatever their buddy hands them. (Then, most likely, give up and go back to Windows after a few days.)

By the time you start talking about distros, much less "dependancies," you're way beyond the user friendly stage.

Knoppmyth vs MythDora

[Paul Carver (4555)]

I hope we'll see some good detailed posts by people who've used both MythDora and KnoppMyth. Personally, I've only used KnoppMyth.

Re:Knoppmyth vs MythDora

[biggyfred (754376)]

I am by no means an expert of any kind. In fact, I'm about as amateur as it gets. Before about a week ago, I had very little experience with linux (edgy, FC3 for about 5 mins). This is my quick take on the three:

KnoppMyth was way too over my head. I'm certain that it was my inability to grasp knoppix that was the problem. User problem to be sure, but if that counts as an issue... Knoppix did do great with lirc and my remote right out of the box, a sore spot for me with the other distros I used.

Whereas KnoppMyth felt like swimming in a ocean of misunderstanding, MythDora felt like death by a thousand cuts. It was pretty, but I kept feeling like I ran into hurdles over... and over.. and over. I used Jared's guide, but like all things, the book can only take you so far..

I ended up throwing Feisty on my HTPC and loading up a full backend/frontend/desktop. Biggest problems were my Avermedia A180 (DVB issues) and lirc. The level of user generated documentation with Ubuntu made the difference for me.

Feel free to disagree with me. I can't defend any of this with anything more than my personal experience.

Re:Knoppmyth vs MythDora

[cesman (74566)]

My goal with KnoppMyth is to make it easy. Obviously, it wasn't for you. In what ways can we improve KnoppMyth to make it easier?

Regards,

Cecil

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

It would be nice if extras like exporting to DVD-R, webbrowsers, etc were easier to find. And, when found, install. Finding things on the forums is a pain.

Also, last time I tried, changing your zip code/postal code was broken if you put in a Canadian postal code (They go like this X0X 0X0). That was about a year ago though.

And dealing with things like two IR outputs + one IR input using different methods with LIRC would be nice. As it stands I had to compile LIRC by hand with differing module names to d

Re:Knoppmyth vs MythDora

[cesman (74566)]

In terms of finding programs, etc. Those are all accessible via the MythTV menu. But I can see where better documentation came come in handy. A while ago, I started on a much updated pamphlet, but it is disheartening to work on something and people doesn't read it. A lot of the question I get in IRC (freenode.net #knoppmyth), are covered in the pamphlet. If only people would RTFM.... But I digress. More work is due on the pamphlet, I've just been busy with my professional life.

In terms of MythTV related issues... Those are MythTV issues and not KnoppMyth specific. Ironically, one of the areas we try and make it easier for users is in MythWeather. Your zipcode is automatically retrieved from the db and entered for you.

I don't ever recall reading or hearing about issues w/ multiple LIRC. When issues like this occur, if you want to see it fixed in a future release, you should bring it to my attention of the forum or via PM or email. The development team isn't very large. We don't have all the hardware that is out there. Even our testers may not have the hardware you have. So, if you want to see something fixed, the best way to bring it to our attention and provide details. Same thing goes if you fix an issue. Provide details and ask to test.

Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,

Cecil

Re:

[Ngarrang (1023425)]

If only people would RTFM.... But I digress. More work is due on the pamphlet, I've just been busy with my professional life.

Cecil, you are living in a dream world. Most people don't RTFM. Even when asked. Even if it brought world peace, turned lead into gold and allowed cars to run on water.

Easy to use means not having to open the manual, that the screen tells you everything you need to know, such that a 5 year old can learn to use it. It is this very familiarity that keeps Windows on top, because it is what people know. Linux has to fight this mentality. It is a shame that so many Linux enthusiasts don't understand t

Re:

[cesman (74566)]

I think if you were to install KnoppMyth, you'd see that is "like cattle". I personally think MythTV is easy to use. Granted, if can be difficult to install, hence my work on KnoppMyth.

When KnoppMyth was first introduced, the manual was sparse. The pamphlet now stands at about 40 pages. Now, the reason that came about is because people asked specifics and I wanted to provided a great understanding of the different parts of KnoppMyth.

Frankly, I think the attitude of not reading or not wanting to read is

Re:Knoppmyth vs MythDora

[spisska (796395)]

I've run MythTV since 0.14 on Knoppmyth [mysettopbox.tv] and Fedora -- starting with FC3.

When I started, Knoppmyth was way over my head -- particularly the finishing touches to get everything running properly. It was my first real hands-dirty experience with Linux and I appreciated for all I learned. I did did manage to get an ancient K6-3D system running Knoppmyth -- not well enough to put in my livingroom, but well enough to prove the concept and that it was worth the time and effort to build a new system on more capable hardware.

My second system was a P3 700 built on FC3 following Jarod Wilson's definitive guide [wilsonet.com], mainly because I felt that following the guide to transform a generic install into a MythTV appliance would teach me a lot about what the Myth components were, how they all fit together, how to make them all fit together in Linux, and what to do when something went wrong. I was right.

I built a third machine (my current master beckend/frontend) on FC4 also following Jarod's guide but this time on a P4 2.5 machine.

By this time I was ready to start adding FE capabilities, but I already knew the process of installation, knew about the components and dependencies, and no longer felt the need for yumming or smarting in kernel modules and so on. I used Knoppmyth to turn my old P3 700 former-backend into a frontend.

This setup worked well through several upgrades -- FC on the backend, Knoppmyth on the frontend with the only caveat being that both machines have to be running the same version of Myth. Upgrade one, you have to upgrade the other.

Even though this was about two years ago, the Knoppmyth install was easy and painless, and I was prepared to deal with irregularities like tweaking xorg.conf. I also really appreciated that the Knoppmyth CD would let you run a frontend off the CD -- allowing you to instantly test hardware without touching the drive.

Last weekend, I finally retired the P3. It's currently on holiday, but will soon return to service as a file server. Instead I built a new frontend on an Athlon 64 4000.

I decided to give Mythdora a whirl since I know it's been under heavy development including the involvement of Jarod. I was really impressed with how smoothly and quickly the installation went, including post-install scripts to handle things like IR hardware and binary nvidia drivers (I know, I know, but the binary driver really works better for Myth than the Free one). I went from having a pile of boxes at 4 pm to a working Mythtv system at 9:30. It might have been quicker but I had to run to the shop when I ran out of beer.

I didn't try a Knoppmyth install on this hardware, but have no doubt that it would have gone just as smoothly. Cecil deserves a lot of respect and credit for the fantastic job he has done with Knoppmyth over the years.

Of course I did have quite a bit of Myth-specific experience behind me and knew from the start to buy hardware that was rock-solid compatible -- like an nforce board, nvidia gfx card, turtle beach sound card, on-board 10/100 LAN, etc.

The point is that by last weekend I was a lot more familiar with Fedora than with Debian, so I was really happy to be able to so painlessly migrate my FE to Fedora. I have no doubt that those more familiar with Debian will be just as happy with what Cecil has done in Knoppix.

And more than anything, lot of credit is owed to the folks behind MythTV -- from Isaac Richards, the original creator, and all the key developers, to folks like Jarod, Cecil, and Dennis for enormous contributions in making Myth more accessible, to all the numerous active and helpful folks on the mailing list. They've made MythTV into a product that truly is a world-beater -- by far the most powerful, most flexible, most extensible, and downright most pleasurable media engine on the planet.

Here's looking to 0.21.

Re:

[cesman (74566)]

KnoppMyth is meant to be used as a set-top box, not a general purpose computer. KnoppMyth already includes MythBrowser.

PS3?

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

I wanna see someone port MythTV's codecs to the PS3's Cell [psubuntu.com] DSPs so I can use it as my PVR direct to my HDMI TV and 7.1 surround.

Re:

[SlashdotOgre (739181)]

If you can deal with component video (which supports 1080p) and optical (TOS-link) audio, then you can just pick up an original Xbox, mod it, and install Xbox Media Center (XBMC) and you'll be all set. There's a plugin called xbmcmythtv which is simply a MythTV frontend written in Python that's easy to configure and works with various versions of Myth. Alternatively, the Xbox Linux ports also have MythTV packages available (but make involve more work).

Re:

[CastrTroy (595695)]

How does the XBox support record TV shows? Isn't that the whole point of MythTV? I know it supports other stuff like MAME, and watching videos you may have downloaded, but if you're just going to do that, then you hardly need a special program.

Re:

[tji (74570)]

The XBox can not support playback of HD video (broadcast HD, 1080i or 720p MPEG2). So, aside from being fairly large, and fairly loud, it's too slow to do HD.. not exactly the ideal myth frontend.

The best one I have found, albeit quite a bit more expensive, is the Mac Mini. It rans a full Myth Frontend app, with full support for HD video and surround sound.

Re:

[tji (74570)]

MythTV's frontend app has already been ported to run on the PS3. MythTV doesn't have a special codec, it uses MPEG2 for most video (e.g. broadcast HD in the U.S. is MPEG2).

But, it doesn't support HD playback. The problem is not CPU power, it's video hardware. Linux runs in a VM on the PS3, which does not offer virtualized accelerated video playback, so it cannot do HD. If Sony ever improves the video support for Linux, the PS3 would make an excellent frontend.

Re:

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

Linux runs on the Cell's embedded Power RISC, which is not very fast running Linux apps, especially at video processing, especially compared to its lightning-fast DSPs. That's the point of running Linux on the PS3, unless it's just a geek trick. Porting the codecs to the DSPs will make a PS3 an excellent $600 HDMI PVR, with many picture-in-picture features, and even plenty of previously unseen editing features.

Sony won't be improving Linux's video support, but rather it's up to us to port apps to the parall

Fedora Myth(TV)ology

[SlashdotOgre (739181)]

For those who already have Fedora installed, there's an excellent guide available at http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/fcmyth.php [wilsonet.com] which is simple to follow and worked for me on the first try (I went with a Hauppage 150 card). Personally, I preferred installing it the software myself, so I have a better idea of where to look when something breaks. I have yum cron'ed to run nightly, and so far I haven't had the install broken by any new packages since the install (4 or so months ago).

Should tell people what Mythdora and MythTV is.

[Futurepower(R) (558542)]

As usual with open source projects, it is assumed that everyone has a considerable amount of knowledge already. They could have told people what Mythdora is and what MythTV is, for example.

This should not have been the first sentence on the first page: "The new and much improved MythDora 4.0 is finally ready. As you will see, things have improved greatly."

However, other than that it is looking excellent, for people who have a lot of background knowledge.

Does Myth have Bayesian content selection yet?

[Colin Smith (2679)]

Really, with tens of channels, never mind hundreds, I've long since given up trying to find stuff worth watching, that's what computers are for.

Tivo was great, but it's no longer available in the UK and my hardware's been disassembled and the big drives recycled.

 

MythTV woes

[ArchieBunker (132337)]

I tried installing mythtv about a year ago but realized my error in judgement after searching usenet to figure out why mysql was not working. Why should I have to troubleshoot a database app to record fucking tv programs? Spend the money and hack a tivo instead.

Re:

[Overzeetop (214511)]

If you're already searching usenet, why not just get your programs there?

Oh, damn, right...first rule of usenet. Sorry.

Just like.....

[Lumpy (12016)]

Knoppmyth.

I only hope that Mythdora has a better group of maintainers than knoppmyth does. the releases are incredibly far apart and honestly get's out of date quick for hardware issues.

Another thing I hope it supports out of the box is the Microsoft MCE remote and MCE keyboard. as those are hands down the best remote designed for a media center. every time I use Knoppmyth I haveto spend 1 hour hacking in support for those two devices as well as updating xmltv to the recent build and fixing the ivtv driv

Re:Just like.....

[cesman (74566)]

Sorry if my personal and professional life gets in the way of making a release for you. The day you have to pay for KnoppMyth is the day you can stop bitching about releases taking too long.

Overrated

[StikyPad (445176)]

I tried MythDora, but frankly I got tired of the "Swiper, no swiping!" popups every time I tried to record a show. I've heard there's a MythBusters plugin to get around them, but I don't think the walrus mustache is an acceptable tradeoff.

Whats with the Fedora Bashing?

[nukem996 (624036)]

I use Gentoo 2007.0, Ubuntu Edgy and Feisty, and Fedora Core 6 on a daily basis and Fedora Core 6 is rock solid. If you following the instructions at http://www.fedorafaq.org/ [fedorafaq.org] you can have MP3/DVD and what ever play back you want in no time. Fedora is just as easy to use as Ubuntu and personally I think the default skins look a hell of a lot sexier then Ubuntu's.

Re:

[ettlz (639203)]

It's disguised anti-Red Hatism from those who resent a company making money out of Linux. Mostly ungrateful fucks who don't realise just how much Red Hat's money puts back into the system. There are also a lot of lazy buggers out there who can't be bothered to figure out how to make it work and talk shit about yum and rpm. Add in those who don't seem to realise that Fedora eschews non-Free/possibly patented stuff by default and haven't figured out what a third-party repository is: "I can't play MP3s!" "MP3

well that was useless

[jridley (9305)]

It's a 3 part video on how to click "next" a bunch of times. It shows how to set up the box if you have exactly the hardware that guy happens to have. I had that figured out a year ago, but it's been 3 tries since then and I still haven't gotten Myth working. Always it mostly works but some damn thing stops me. Last time I couldn't get LIRC working right. I don't even remember what the previous ones were.

Re:Noob questions...

[jdunn14 (455930)]

Well, to work with a remote you need some sort of an IR receiver. And if the machine needs to control a set-top box of some sort (direct tv for example) you may need an IR emitter as well. Coincidentally, I happen to sell such things: http://iguanaworks.net/products.psp [iguanaworks.net]

Yes it's a shameless plug, but when you throw up a softball like this I just have take a swing at it.

Re:

[pimpbott (642033)]

The Hauppague PVR-150,250, and 350 are the best game in town for tuners. Fry's sells the PVR150 for $120 if you have to get it right away, or I've seen them online for as cheap as $60 for plain box with no remote. You can do remote through your LAN I just built a MythDora 3.2 box (doh! Could have done MythDora 4.0!) and it works quite nicely on a P3/850 with an NVidia 6200 based video card with S-Video out. Just this last weekend, I rebuilt the thing with a 320GB drive instead of the tiny drive I had lying

Card Choice; IR

[StefanJ (88986)]

- My boss ran into awful icky troubles getting the IR remote functionality to work.

I took the easy way when it came to installing a remote. I use a compact Infrared keyboard I had on hand. There is mapping between letters and arrows and various remote functions.

- You can't go wrong with a Happauge* PVR-x50. I bought a PVR-150 from a local supplier for under $80. It was way easy to set up. It doesn't have a TV out, so I bought a cheap card with an NVIDIA chipset.

I used the Fedora MythTV project procedure and

Re:

[laddy (159448)]

Getting a remote to work isn't worth the trouble. I have a PVR-250 in my Myth machine and I ditched the remote for a wireless keyboard a while back. Much easier.

Re:

[cesman (74566)]

You have obviously not spent anytime in #mythtv-user. I've seen lots of folks come in there and ask for help with install MythTV on Ubuntu.

Regards,