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Robert Love Resigns from Novell

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri May 04, 2007 06:45 PM
from the moving-on dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Robert Love who was the Chief Architect of Novell's Linux Desktop has resigned today. Robert is a prominent Linux kernel hacker, author and journalist in the Linux community. His blog doesn't specify why he resigned, but after colleague and friend Jeremy Allison's departure from Novell in protest of the Microsoft-Novell deal, this might be the latest fallout from it."
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  • by chromatic (9471) on Friday May 04 2007, @06:49PM (#18997039) Homepage

    The speculation in the submission is unnecessary. Regardless of my personal feelings about the Novell-Microsoft deal, this looks like an opportunistic attempt to re-open an old debate. That's not fair to anyone actually involved.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Maybe, maybe not, but if anything looks and smells like an 800-lb elephant in the living room, the Novell/MSFT deal has to rank up there pretty high.

      Dunno why Love just up and left... could be a better opportunity, could've been retirement, could've been disgust at the company culture... could be that he was sick and tired of having to go to Salt Lake City once a year for Brainshare and put up with the local 3.2% beer. Who knows?

      Either way, the fact that such speculation is obvious and rather persistant

      • by Kjella (173770) on Friday May 04 2007, @07:45PM (#18997515) Homepage

        Either way, the fact that such speculation is obvious and rather persistant is a good indication that maybe it does need to be re-assessed (not necessarily by the /. crowd, but certainly by Novell...)
        Or maybe the editorial staff on slashdot is showing their bias by posting what's blatantly unfounded speculation with no original source, thus trying to reinforce that such speculation is "rather persistant". It's like posting another story on Jack Thompson and violent video games and concluding that "the fact that such speculation is obvious and rather persistant is a good indication that maybe it does need to be re-assessed by the gaming industry". Sorry, if you have a crackpot theory it's still a crackpot theory even if you repeat it often enough.
        • Either way, the fact that such speculation is obvious and rather persistant is a good indication that maybe it does need to be re-assessed (not necessarily by the /. crowd, but certainly by Novell...)

          Or maybe the editorial staff on slashdot is showing their bias by posting what's blatantly unfounded speculation with no original source, thus trying to reinforce that such speculation is "rather persistant".

          So let's remove any possibility of bias:

          1. Novell pays MSFT a shedload of money, ostensibly to get MSFT to help w/ Win32/64 app interoperability and sell a few SuSE licenses.
          2. Ballmer almost immediately starts mouthing on about Linux and how it allegedly "infringes intellectual property".
          3. Novell's response wasn't (at least IMHO) much more than a weak 'do not...'
          4. Ballmer continues bull-horning the original point unabated, pointing at SuSE and claiming the money was to help insure against vague future threat
          • [Big blurb of why Microsoft is planning do to evil with the MSFT/Novell deal]

            Perhaps they do, I certainly don't think they did it out of the goodness of their hearts. But there is still absolutely nothing to suggest Robert Love's resignation has anything at all to do with that deal, which is the unfounded speculation here. Trying to make it look like the 800-lb invisible elephant in the room is at fault regardless, is a lot like talking up violent video games after a violent killing spree where there's no e
        • If only the propaganda pattern you decry were not repeated across the government and media, all across the idiotlogical spectrum.
      • What does the Microsoft Novel deal do that is just so damn bad? I mean seriously, Look at what Novel has done with it and tell me what is so bad.

        I bet nothing can be said that is bad with the MS Novel deal without imagining something that hasn't happened. For crying out loud, Why cannot we just take novel for what they have done instead of what some kook think they might do. This is nonsense and contains more fud and misinformation then anything else.

        What happened? Did Microsoft feel the need to bust sales?
        • Look at what Novel has done with it and tell me what is so bad.

          Trying to circumvent GPLv2?
          • In what instance have they tried to circumvent the GPLv2? They haven't!

            You can name any actual instance were they have done anything of the sorts, even with the GPLv3 minus the "no deals with microsoft" clause, they haven't attempted to violate it. What you inferring is that people think they might be able to try to do this. And in a time were so many people are judged guilty until proven innocent, I thought I would have seen better from the GPL crowd.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          What does the Microsoft Novel deal do that is just so damn bad?

          Novell gets (real) money for "intellectual property" (ip) in linux which may have been used by microsoft, but since the "infringing" ip is never identified, Novell may in fact be keeping money for ip that rightfully belongs to other linux community developers.

          Fact: money was paid.

          Fact: the ip supposedly paid for has not been identified.

          Fact: Ballmer says linux contains microsoft ip.

          Fact: Ballmer says the infringing ip is also containe

          • You got that wrong,

            Novell gets (real) money for "intellectual property" (ip) in linux which Microsoft has placed a claim on. And yes, nothing has ever been identified and as far as we know, the claims are completely false. But so does redhat and so does Mandriva, Debian and so on. So there is no difference there. Your last fact illustrates that point well. But your facts also point out how Balmer said everything and neglect to mention Novel denied it from the start. It also goes on to state novel may have,
              • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                What part of the GPL says I have to give money to anyone else? I don't even have to give the source to anyone who isn't my customer.

                Point were it forbids this in the exiting GPL or actually read the licensing before spreading fud. The GPLv3 doesn't even stop this from happening. You seem to be sold on the merits of licensing, have you even read the GPL license?
    • Looking back on this period in Novell history from some point down the line you will see a deal with Microsoft followed relatively closely by several key personnel departures.

      Whatever the case, Novell is going to be linked to the M$ deal for some time with business decisions, personnel moves, and market value all discussed in relation to it.

      After all... It was a big deal if only for symbolic value. Perspectives were changed as a result.

      Regards.
    • by panaceaa (205396) on Friday May 04 2007, @07:58PM (#18997623) Homepage Journal
      My feelings are quite the contrary.

      The FAQ on the Novell/Microsoft deal is filled with business doublespeak, but one sentence of it strikes me: "Novell will continue to promote Linux as the premier platform for core infrastructure and application services." It strikes me because it is the only sentence stating what Novell will continue doing after the agreements. It's a feel good sentence, sounding like "oh, Novell's continuing Linux development," but really explicitly stating the parts of Linux it will continue on. Considering that Novell was actively developing the Linux Desktop, and Robert Love was "Chief Architect, Linux Desktop, at Novell" [wikipedia.org], it's apparent that the Linux Desktop is one of the items Novell will NOT continue.
    • Atleast it didn't speculate that he is leaving to join Microsoft.
    • Hi Chromatic,

      When Jeremy Allison resigned from Novell, the fact of his resignation was known by the public for some weeks before his last official day as a Novell employee. Jeremy had to refrain from doing or saying certain things until he was actually off the payroll - for example he did not sign the petition [techp.org] until then. Love is probably in the same situation right now: known to have resigned, but still to some degree responsible to the company.

      We might not get to know how Love feels about the Novell-Microsoft agreement for some time, and should not make assumptions. It may well be that his strongest feelings are about wanting to continue to develop a great desktop, and that Novell might not be such a great place to do that any longer. That's all he mentioned in his blog.

      That said, the agreement is a big honkin' elephant in Novell's living room that is not going away. It's unfair to ask people not to speculate, we just have to make it clear that such speculations are vapors until Love himself comments.

      Bruce

      • Will Love put some time in on a third edition of his fine kernel programming book?
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        It's unfair to ask people not to speculate, we just have to make it clear that such speculations are vapors until Love himself comments.

        Suppose his reasons are none of our business, and he never shares. What use is it to speculate (other than my speculation that the anonymous story submitter wanted to kick the Novell pariah yet again)?

    • First of all it's not unfair.

      Second of all even if it was unfair so what? Why does a corporation (or two) need protections from unfair treatment on slashdot.

      It's not a person, it has no feelings, it's a corporation. It doesn't care about you or any other human being except it's shareholders. It only cares about making money and giving it to it's shareholders.
        • Whether you are good or not, is not dependent on whether something deserves your act of goodness or not. Similarly for fairness. It's part of having integrity.

          I would think it would be better in the long term to choose to be good, rather than choose to not be evil (ala Google[1]).

          [1] Seems Google's policy is to try to "hire above the mean" (which is a good idea for them), but aiming for "don't be evil" is not aiming "above the mean".

    • Regarding my personal feelings towards the Microsoft-Novell deal, I say good for him. If Robert wants to dispute the obvious, maybe he can make his 262nd blog entry clearer. I say his leaving is clear enough.
      • by bigman2003 (671309) on Friday May 04 2007, @06:55PM (#18997107) Homepage
        I don't see a problem with signing his letters that way. He might just be a very enlightened person.

        I really wish there were more people like this in our industry. That would attract women.

        And women have boobies.
        • In the good old hippie days:

          "Love, Robert" would indicate he wrote with a good post-sex mood. "Love Robert" indicates he wrote after a few beers and signing as "Robert Love" just means the cocaine was good :)

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        Or he could sign "Love Bob" which sounds like a sex toy.
  • by Penguinisto (415985) on Friday May 04 2007, @06:50PM (#18997055) Journal
    Not 100% sure if it's fallout from the Novell/MSFT deal or not, but maybe it'll finally get Hoviespan's attention that you simply do not make deals with The Devil and expect everyone to be happy with it?

    I can grok the 'foot-in-the-door' theory of getting enough interoperability w/ Windows to make Windows no longer matter (or at least ease customers out of the Windows-only lock-in), but man... he HAD to have seen the 'Plays for Sure' fiasco and figure out that the only real winner in any MSFT-3rdparty deal is MSFT, even if MSFT has to screw the partner(s) to do it.

    ...'the Hell was he thinking, anyway?

    /P

    • What is it with this deal that is so bad? I'm talking about what Novel has actually done? So far it has been a bunch of OSS advocated spreading fud and Balmer Throwing chairs to incite the fud slinging.

      Novel hasn't done anything wrong outside talking to Microsoft. So what does the deal specifically do that is so bad?
      • Novel hasn't done anything wrong outside talking to Microsoft. So what does the deal specifically do that is so bad?

        In signing this deal with Microsoft, Novell (note spelling) has deliberately and disingenuously circumvented one of the key elements that ensures the continuity of the GNU General Public License, version 2. The GPL states that you cannot encumber the license with additional terms (patent limitations, for example), because that would work against the the principle of the FSF's four freedoms: to study, copy, modify and redistribute software.

        Novell inked a deal with Microsoft that did an end-run around this limitation by agreeing not to sue Novell's customers for patent infringement. This makes a scenario possible in which an unsuspecting company or individual could use GPL software, assuming that they had every right to do so, only to have Microsoft sue them later for breach of patent. As long as they're not Novell customers, MS would be perfectly within their rights to do so.

        It stretches belief to imagine that Microsoft didn't know they were subverting the essence - if not the letter - of the GPL with this deal. But we've known for years now that Microsoft sees the GPL as a threat, and that they are working actively to defeat it using both fair means and foul.

        What gets people's knickers in a knot over this deal is the fact that Novell should have known better. They built a major part of their business strategy on the hard work of the FOSS community, and contributed a lot to it, too. But now they've gone and exploited an inherent weakness in the current version of the GPL, and damaged FOSS in general for short-sighted, selfish reasons. In effect, they're poisoning the very well they drink from.

        Needless to say, a great many people in the FOSS world, including RMS, Bruce Perens and a lot of others who know a thing or two about this stuff, have castigated Novell for being remarkably stupid. And a lot of us here on Slashdot agree.

        • by Anomolous Cowturd (190524) on Friday May 04 2007, @11:11PM (#18998861)
          Hmm... if all it takes to get permanent immunity to Microsoft FUD is being one of Novell's customers, maybe Novell should start selling 50 cent insurance policies?
          • It doesn't matter if the license is $600, $6 million, or $0.00000006. Regardless of the cost, if it's non-zero it kills the GPL licensing model. Why? Because no matter what, the patent license would be non-transferable. This means that third parties wouldn't be able to exercise their redistribution rights under the GPL, because they wouldn't be allowed to also transfer the patent license.

            Make no mistake: this, just like with SCO, is another Microsoft attempt to destroy Linux. The value of Linux is in the G

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          n signing this deal with Microsoft, Novell (note spelling) has deliberately and disingenuously circumvented one of the key elements that ensures the continuity of the GNU General Public License, version 2. The GPL states that you cannot encumber the license with additional terms (patent limitations, for example), because that would work against the the principle of the FSF's four freedoms: to study, copy, modify and redistribute software.

          There is nothing in the GPLv2 stopping you from placing patented so

        • And there are specific instances of the problem. Jeremy Allison's extensive work with Samba was something Microsoft *needed* to spike, by whatever means possible, since most of the network file system drives and external storage devices we're seeing today are Linux and especially Samba based. That's not a market Microsoft can leave alone: it keeps people away from the license and hardware over-burdened Windows server market.

          Jeremy continuing in Samba work under the Novell/Microsoft patent agreement put Samb
  • by sczimme (603413) on Friday May 04 2007, @06:53PM (#18997091)

    Well, I guess when people say there is no love for Novell, they mean there is no Love for Novell.

    • Oh man get someone to hand a giant banner on Novell headquarters that proclaims....

      "NO love here"

      and I guarantee you would be the king of all geeks for at LEAST 2 maybe 3 years.
  • by onetwofour (977057) on Friday May 04 2007, @06:56PM (#18997121) Homepage
    "Robert Love today has joined Canonical Ltd."
      • Disagree (Score:3, Insightful)

        I disagree, for two reasons.

        (1) You label those who have started to use Ubuntu as people without judgement? Well, sorry, I don't consider myself *that* clueless. I've used Slackware (since it came on floppies), SuSE since v5 or so, RH from when they started, Mandrake, enfin, to cut a long story short, I experiment. And Ubuntu has gone from nothing to my preferred desktop, with Fedora and SuSE running a close 2nd (although I'm not very impressed with OpenSuSE, and the MS tie in makes it less likely I'll e
  • Thank You (Score:5, Insightful)

    I'm shocked no one has said it.

    While everyone grips about Novell-MS, let me instead say thank you.

    Thank you for all your contributions, paid for or otherwise, we all benefit from them, often at no cost to ourselves.

    I wish you the best in future endeavors.
  • by twenex27 (1004369) on Friday May 04 2007, @07:38PM (#18997475) Homepage
    This reminds me of the HP/Compaq merger: At first HP said they would integrate the superior technologies from Compaq/DEC's Tru64 Unix into HP-UX; two years later (or less) most of the Tru64 workforce was gone and the "superior technologies" were jettisoned. And where is HP/UX now?

    Similarly, if all the Linux hackers leave Novell/SUSE, who exactly are Novell going to employ to develop the distribution? Not many people looking to make a good career move are going to man a ship whose crew says she's sinking.

    • It won't be hard to find developers. They just won't have the experience or insights into the systems as the one leaving. But this might be a good deal in the end, It can allow more things to move in different directions and possibly in better directions.

      And don't think for a minute that it won't be easy to find developers. When everyone is claiming all the jobs are going over seas, I seriously doubt that some starving outsourced programmer is going to get all ethical and pass up a full time job. He is goin
    • This reminds me of the HP/Compaq merger:

      It's even more reminiscent of the Compaq/DEC merger. Compaq acquired DEC and then went to all of the Tru64 Unix customers and declared to them: "Hi there. We're going to migrate you to Windows NT." The vast majority of them replied, "Fuck you, we're going to Sun." By the time Compaq realized that enterprise admins will give up Unix when you pry it from their cold dead fingers, it was already way too late, and Sun (and later, Linux) ran away with Compaq/DEC's uni

  • Speculation, false. (Score:5, Informative)

    by sagei (131421) <rlove@@@rlove...org> on Friday May 04 2007, @09:50PM (#18998323) Homepage

    The MSFT/NOVL agreement was not the motivation behind my departure.

    I appreciate the postings by those who recognize that the speculation behind my departure is ill-founded and inappropriate.

    • ...It was the 3.2% beer in Provo, wasn't it?

      (PS to all the indignant: I used to live in Salt Lake City...)

      /P

    • by mrchaotica (681592) * on Saturday May 05 2007, @12:23AM (#18999329)

      In that case, would you mind ending the speculation by simply telling us the reason (if it was business-related; otherwise just tell us "it's private")? Curious minds want to know...

      • I am rather cross with you for lending your verbal support to Novell/Ximian's ignoble agenda to push KDE out of its well deserved and much loved position as the default desktop of the SuSE distribution. Which as you will recall, sparked a veritable customer revolt. How arrogant of you and those others involved. No, contrary to your claim [rlove.org], Ximian's offering is the second best Linux desktop, in my opinion. To be honest, I find Ximian's desktop downright irritating, clumsy, limited, buggy and reall
    • Novell's headquarters hasn't been in Utah for several years now. After the merger with Cambridge Technology Partners, the combined firm set up its official HQ at the latter's Waltham, MA location.

      It is true that presidential candidate W. Mitt Romney has built a Mormon Temple (the only one northeast of Maryland; a temple is much bigger than a normal church) near his house in Belmont, a town adjacent to Waltham. But other than Mitt and his many kids, there aren't a lot of Mormons near Novell HQ.
    • I'm sure he'll end up at a company where his talent's can be used to further Linux's position in the desktop marketplace.

      Yeah, I know one [ubuntu.com]
    • They want their rhetoric back.
    • Surely you misspelled "Microsoft," right? I've read your article, and most of it makes sense, but it really seems like Novell is either aiming for Microsoft to buy them out instead of IBM, or at least for MS and IBM to fight over the UNIX rights (wouldn't that be the battle of the century!).