HP Dishonors Warranty If You Load Linux

darkonc points us to a writeup on linux.com about a very Linux-unfriendly policy at HP. A woman bought a Compaq laptop and loaded Ubuntu on it. Some time later, still well inside the 1-year hardware warranty, the keyboard started acting up. An HP support rep told her, "Sorry, we do not honor our hardware warranty when you run Linux." Gateway and Dell refused to comment to the reporter on what they would do in a similar situation. (Linux.com and Slashdot are both part of OSTG.)

Illegal?

[jshriverWVU (810740)]

What does software have to do with a hardware waranty?

Re:Illegal?

[bcmbyte (996126)]

That LINUX is evil, just ask M$, they will tell you how it crashes computers all the time. I have heard of stories where LINUX has turned off the sun. Third grade linux users are writing code that causes hardware like keyboards and mice to break all the time... How is HP supposed to be responsible such catastrophies...

Oh wait tech support for linux on systems costs companies more, that's why it voids the warranty... I would like to see some one take this to court.

Re:Illegal?

[Lumpy (12016)]

A local IT support company locally called NEXT/IT actually tells customer that linux causes viruses and security holes if it's anywhere in their office. Microsoft tries hard to make sure their partners spread BS FUD like that from the corporate level to the field techs. I find it offensive and inform customers that if a company rep starts spewing things like that then they need to see it as a warning that they are probably lying about other aspects as well.

Re:Illegal?

[Pentavirate (867026)]

This has nothing to do with Linux. I once owned a Toshiba that came with Win98 installed. I had installed Win2000 on the computer as a dual boot with the win98. Later I was having some hardware issues that fell under warranty. On the phone, the technician told me that I had to have the original Win98 on the computer. I explained that I had it but I dual boot into win2000. That wasn't good enough. It had to have the original configuration only. I hung up and called back and lied about only having win98 installed.

From their point of view, they need to have the software in a known state so that they can troubleshoot the hardware. They don't want to go to the expense of sending out a technician (I had an on-site warranty) if the problem turned out to not be hardware related and they needed to know that the technician will be familiar with the OS so they can do their troubleshooting as well.

I know it's fun to jump on the "everyone is against Linux" bandwagon but this just isn't the case in this situation.

Re:Illegal?

[trianglman (1024223)]

The thing is, the warranty makes no mention of any software requirements. Its all well and good if they don't want to support Linux (well, imo its wrong, but still legal), but if they don't say "Changing the OS on this system voids the warranty" then what HP/Compaq is doing is fraud. You can't arbitrarily void the warranty. Otherwise they could say, "Oh, you installed Firefox? We only allow you to use IE, your warranty is now void." etc.

Re:Illegal?

[livewire98801 (916940)]

I sent my notebook in to HP earlier this year because the keyboard was acting up. I reported that the behavior was the same in Windows and Linux. They replaced the keyboard and a couple of other things with no problem. . .

Re:Illegal?

[bfields (66644)]

Its all well and good if they don't want to support Linux (well, imo its wrong, but still legal), but if they don't say "Changing the OS on this system voids the warranty" then what HP/Compaq is doing is fraud. You can't arbitrarily void the warranty.

If you read carefully you'll see they didn't claim that installing linux "voids the warranty" (though the article, confusingly, suggests that they did). At least not as I understand the term. I thought it referred to something unreversible--like dropping it off a tall building.

They asked her to wipe the system and restore the original OS before returning the laptop.

Which is still annoying--it shouldn't be that hard for them just to boot the thing from a diagnostic disk if they want to test with a known software configuration. I'd think the sensible thing would be to say "ship it to us, but back it up first; if we suspect a software problem we reserve the right to return the disk to its original state before returning it, but we'll try not to do that unless it's necessary."

Re:Illegal?

[zotz (3951)]

"From their point of view, they need to have the software in a known state so that they can troubleshoot the hardware."

Well then, what they need to do is provide a live CD that can test the hardware no matter what state the software is currently in. Once they know the hardware is good, they can give software support or not based on what is on the hardware.

all the best,

drew

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=zotzbro [youtube.com]

Re:Illegal?

[aslvrstn (1047588)]

I sole-boot linux on a Dell, and when my file system got corrupted, I ran badblocks to make sure it was a hard disk issue. It turned out to be a bunch of bad sectors in the middle of my drive. So I called Dell, completely explained the situation, including the sole-boot and running badblocks, and not only did the guy not hang up on me, he started talking about linux with me and seemed actually supportive of it. He asked me to boot into the recovery partition (which I had obviously deleted), so I told him I wiped it, and he asked me to boot onto the recovery CD. The regular CD diagnostics that he told me to run was just a simple memtest and a very high level HDD read test, both of which passed. I knew the disk was dead though, so I told him I was going to run some other of Dell's tests (they have multiple HDD tests), and he said he would call me back. He called back in about an hour, and sure enough there were multiple read errors. I got my new disk (they even gave me an extra 40GB free) overnight. So whatever HP does, and whatever crap Dell takes, Dell still gets my support for their support.

Re:Illegal?

[couchslug (175151)]

When you get a helpful tech, do ask how to contact their supervisor in order to praise their professionalism. Even if their boss does nothing for them, the praise will help them get through the stress brought on by the more "difficult" customers.

Good question, Drivers?

[Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286)]

There's a warning in x86config when setting monitor refresh rates that warns you that your choice may destroy your monitor. Granted, thats not a necessary step in a lot of installs, and most people have moved to LCD screens that wouldn't explode, but I think they were thinking of something similar to that. Badly written drivers CAN destroy hardware, in rare cases.

Or, the higher level software may shorten the lifetime of hardware. Maybe Linux uses the hard disk more than Vista, which leads to higher usage frequency which causes it to reach its MTBF earlier.

Is it fair, no, not really. I'm sure you could wear out your hardware just even faster with certain applications.

They can't possible start rejecting the waranty, depending upon3rd party apps installed could they? I'm sure Something like Maya or Blender could put a lot of use on a hard disk, especially on a low end system without much RAM.

Re:Good question, Drivers?

[badfish99 (826052)]

Back in the old days, some monitors would fail to sync to some refresh rates, and the display would collapse to a dot in the centre of the screen, which would burn a hole in the phosphor (or worse).

I don't think monitors like that have been sold for the last 20 years or so, but the warning has never been removed from the manual.

Re:Good question, Drivers?

[kasperd (592156)]

There's a warning in x86config when setting monitor refresh rates that warns you that your choice may destroy your monitor.

That shouldn't be true with modern hardware. Five years ago I got a new CRT (replacement for an old one which was kind enough to die shortly before the end of the warranty). The shop had told me, the new one supported the same frequency ranges as the old one, so I just connected it and started up the computer. Once X started, the monitor went black and showed a message stating the input frequency was outside the supported range. And I guess that kind of protection was pretty much standard at monitors at that time. The monitor didn't break, but of course I returned it anyway, cause I was supposed to get a new one at least as good as the old one. (Apparently the sales people didn't know that 75kHz was less than 85kHz.)

Badly written drivers CAN destroy hardware, in rare cases.

No. Badly designed hardware can destroy hardware. If there is any way in which the software can destroy the hardware, it is by definition a latent flaw in the hardware. Yes, a badly designed driver can expose the flaw, but the hardware was already flawed. And yes, sometimes manufactures do produce an entire series of equipment where all of it suffers from the same latent flaw. As long as it is one component destroying itself, it may be reasonable to deal with. It of course gets worse if one piece of hardware has a flaw which causes it to destroy other hardware. (Imagine a flaw in a graphics board that allows a bad driver to drive up the output voltage to the point of breaking the monitor. Luckily that scenario is probably highly unlikely, but I guess high voltage is the most likely thing which isn't trivial for hardware to protect itself against).

Re:Illegal?

[sconeu (64226)]

When you are using unsupported drivers who's to say the driver didn't screw up the hardware.

Exactly how is an unsupported driver supposed to cause physically sticky keys?

Re:Illegal?

[MBCook (132727)]

Microsoft has had Sticky Keys [microsoft.com] in Windows for years and years now. Maybe someone just developed a similar driver for Linux?

(yes, I know)

Re:Illegal?

[the-amazing-blob (917722)]

Your "(yes, I know)" just ruined my chance at "whoosh" jokes following responses to this post.

Re:Illegal?

[nine-times (778537)]

When you are using unsupported drivers who's to say the driver didn't screw up the hardware.

So does it void your warranty if you install an unsupported driver in Windows? And supported by whom? If I have an nvidia card, is the driver from Nvidia "supported"? What about the one from Windows Update? Or is it only the driver HP supplies for me? And what if I install a 3rd party piece of hardware or software which results in installing "unsupported drivers"? What if you tried listening to a Sony audio CD and got a rootkit?

Until they provide a list of all "supported" software, or all software which voids your warranty, they should just support the hardware. It's a general assumption that people are going replace software, or at least install additional software, after they buy a computer. If manufacturers are going to start denying warranties because of software installed, it sets a dangerous precedent.

Re:Illegal?

[eno2001 (527078)]

Yep. That's what I do. I get an extra HD and back up the original factory installation. That way if some dickhead from coporate wants to see a Windows box, he'll see one. Wanna know why this works for Linux users? Because the ONLY time we call support is when the hardware is actually broken. Unlike the Windows dorks who think their systems are broken when it's really a software issue.

Re:Illegal?

[Mr. Flibble (12943)]

Because the ONLY time we call support is when the hardware is actually broken.

Are you certain of this? I have been to some LUG's where there were Linux newbies there who were migrating off of Microsoft not because they like Linux, but rather because they hate Microsoft. (I think that this migration is for entirely the wrong reason.) Many of these kinds of users seemed to blame the hardware of their machines, and feel that they could "demand" support for their hardware, even if it was an unsupported platform (Linux).

The thing is, a serious Linux user will check out the hardware in advance and verify compatibility, and most serious users are knowledgeable in hardware to determine that there are hardware issues. However, newbies are not. You cannot categorically say that all Linux users know their hardware, because I have seen that this is not so. I have seen new users rage against companies like HP, Dell etc. when sometimes they have not bothered to RTFM.

Likewise, I have been admonished for buying hardware that I knew would not be Linux compatible by other users. My Ati All in Wonder 9800 pro does not work under Linux, but I knew that before I bought it. I think that zealots (which is what some of the newbs I met were) harm Linux for all by actually complaining to the companies for the lack of support for Linux, but by doing it in a non-constructive manner.

So, I think that EXPERIENCED Linux users know when the hardware is broken, but then they also know to restore the default OS when getting the hardware fixed.

Re:Illegal?

[despisethesun (880261)]

Linux isn't perfect, but most Linux desktop users know what they're doing well enough to fix it themselves when something goes wrong, or they know where to look to get the information without calling tech support. In my experience in tech support, 99% of all Windows tech support calls are either virus/spyware related, or the customer did something stupid without knowing what they're doing and now the system is "broken". So yes, in my experience, if a Linux user is calling in about an issue, you can be fairly sure that something is well and truly fucked and you (or your employers) are going to be on the hook for it.

Re:Not illegal for my desktop

[rbanffy (584143)]

the computer was designed for Windows and I could not get support for Linux.

Just about every personal computer since mid 90's (Macs excepted) is designed to run a flavor of Windows. Do you wonder why most probably there are no Alpha or MIPS desktop computers around you? That's right - because there is no version of Windows and Office for them. Do you think Intel and AMD could not make a multi-core processor until about last year? They could do it since almost ever (I have seen multi-processor 386 systems), but there would be next to no market for them as Windows 98 couldn't use more than one processor.

Truth is - most computers are really designed to run Windows and this has inhibited or postponed many technical advances. We still use glorified 5150's.

BTW, manufacturers are quite happy with this.

Re:Illegal?

[MoxFulder (159829)]

I had to send my HP laptop in for warranty repair once. They told me the hard drive would be formatted, which I refused. After a few minutes of me basically telling them, "look, the AC socket is physically broken and it has nothing to do with software", they agreed that I could send in the computer without the hard drive.

I suggest that anyone having hardware issues with a computer running Linux do the same: explain to the tech support people that the issue has nothing to do with software, and that you've diagnosed the specific hardware failure. Make sure they let you send in the computer for repair without the hard drive included, so you won't have them hassling you about what OS you run.

Re:Illegal?

[ohearn (969704)]

Having done full time tech support as my primary job through my undergrad and as part time during grad school, I can tell you this is true in call center tech support. I've worked for shops having the onsite service contract for an area with HP, but this basically is just go install replacement parts for customers to afraid to open the case. I have worked phone support for Gateway, Dell, and MS.

From my experience I would say that a Gateway tech would probably tell you the same line since the are under a strict time deadline at most of thier centers unless its changed a lot since I worked for them. Dell's environment for the techs isn't nearly as bad, so you would probably not get it nearly as often there, and to MS's credit they had no time limits; all they cared about was getting the customer's issue fixed even if you were on one call all day. MS also mandated much better training for the techs than Gateway and Dell did, although Dell was a better than Gateway on this by a little bit.

Technically the policies for any of the com panies I did phone support for would not support this BS. All the tech has to do to bypass any driver issues, OS issues, or other nonsense would be to test the keyboard in the BIOS, or boot from the Windows CD that came with the system and get to a command prompt that was to test it. Worst case should be that they require the customer to reinstall windows and then test it, and replace the keyboard as needed at that point.

Again I only worked onsite for HP, and it has been years since I did tech support for a living, but this is at least speaking from someone who has a lot of experience in the area.

Also..

[Rob T Firefly (844560)]

..the warranty on your car is invalid if you let someone smarter than you drive it.

Translation

[l4m3z0r (799504)]

Gateway and Dell refused to comment to the reporter on what they would do in a similar situation.

Translation: Gateway and Dell definitely won't honor the warranty and wish to remain free from bad press until they are forced to reveal the truth.

Re:Translation

[TheGratefulNet (143330)]

dell is ALSO guilty:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?for um=1004&thread=22581483 [dpreview.com]

no WONDER why they had 'no comment'.

Re:Translation

[taniwha (70410)]

in my experience (twice now) Dell will honor their warranty if you run Linux (but then I always return the laptop without the hard drive), but both times I told them I ran linux

This is disappointing

[c0l0 (826165)]

and surprising to me at the same time - HP always seemed to be "one of the good guys", fostering and supporting GNU/Linux and free software on many occassions (for instance, HP provides the quite powerful infrastructure for kernel.org [kernel.org]).

I was going to go buy a HP notebook some time later this year, but as things turn out this way, I'll stick to Lenovo/IBM once more again...

Not Unreasonable

[ehaggis (879721)]

If Linux probes your hardware (monitor) and selects the incorrect settings, could that not potentially harm your screen? I am not saying Windows is not capable or the same problem, but at least you are not trouble shooting an entire OS. How does the woman know that she has not messed up some keyboard setting on Ubuntu? I would not want to be the tech who must troubleshoot over the phone a system which has a different OS than that which is installed. I love Linux, but you have to draw the line on troubleshooting somewhere.

Re:Not Unreasonable

[hobbesmaster (592205)]

If your software can break the hardware then your hardware is broken.

Re:Not Unreasonable

[by Anonymous Coward]

If your software can break the hardware then your hardware is broken.

Of course, since the software already broke your hardware.

THEREALISSUE

[Gary W. Longsine (124661)]

SHIFTKEYBROKENTOO.

Re:Not Unreasonable

[Carrot007 (37198)]

> You trust an end user to tell you that a key is not working because it is sticking?

I'd trust one that ran linux.

same problem

[ChiefArcher (1753)]

I had the keyboard start acting up as well on mine. In addition the hard drive crashed sometime later.
In order for them to do ANY service on it..
A) I had to replace the hard drive with one that worked.
B) Install windows on that hard drive
C) Submit laptop to HP to get the keyboard fixed.
D) Get Laptop back..
E) Put bad hard drive back in
F) Ship it back to HP in order for them to fix the bad drive.

I pretty told them to pound sand and bought a keyboard replacement on ebay.

I will NEVER own another HP again.

Goodbye HP

[19thNervousBreakdown (768619)]

Oh well. Stop buying HP then. Fuck 'em.

As for your current problem, lie. Double fuck 'em. Tell the support rep you were mistaken, the machine having a keyboard problem has never had Linux. Any Slashdotter should be able to BS through a Windows troubleshooting session, and if they want you to run some app and send results, bite the bullet, tell them you'll have to call back later, backup, load Windows, get your hardware, and restore.

Re:Goodbye HP

[harrypelles (872287)]

If you go that route, and have to send the machine back for a repair, leave the hard drive out of it when you send it to them. Is it unreasonable to request that the customer keeps the hard drive (sensitive information) when they back to the manufacturer for repair?

a little misleading

[brunascle (994197)]

from TFA:

In order to get warranty service, she was told, she would have to remove Linux and reinstall the original OS.

so you dont actually lose your warranty, it's just not honored until you reinstall windows. sounds like the tech support people just dont want to have to do their over-the-phone support unless they're working with windows. they should at least let her send the notebook in and swap out the hard drive with a windows-partioned one and test it.

Why tell them which OS you run?

[$lingBlade (249591)]

Why bother telling them which OS you run if it's anything *other* than what came pre-loaded on the system? If I had a hardware issue, big or small, and I called Tech Support for a place like Dell, HP/Compaq, etc, and they asked what I was running for an OS I'd happily lie to them and tell them it was Windows XP or whatever came pre-loaded.

It's the same thing dealing with Tech Support idiots in other countries who can't deviate from a script. They ask if I've done X, Y, Z and I gladly pretend as though I'm going through those exact steps until I reach the point in their script where they either need to escalate the issue or issue an RMA or pickup for repairs.

I'm not saying this lady is an idiot, but come on, have some common sense!!! If you call some PC manufacturer with a hardware issue, and they ask you what OS you're running, tell em' it's all stock. Same with cars. These companies work hard to fuck you out of your money and would love to dismiss your claim for support (however warranted), for any reason they can.

In short: "...If someone asks you if you're a God, you say YES!!!"

Re:Why tell them which OS you run?

[Daniel Dvorkin (106857)]

So in other words, because HP is dishonest, their customers should be dishonest too? Greeeat. That'll help.

Here's a radical idea: everyone lives up their obligations. HP sold a laptop with a warranty. The warranty (if I read TFA correctly) says nothing about what OS should be running on the machine. They are obligated, ethically and legally, to fix the machine under that warranty.

Customers also have an obligation in such situations: when they call tech support, they are obligated (ethically if not legally) to tell the truth. When you call tech support, you're admitting that you have a problem you can't solve yourself; odds are pretty good that you don't know what information is relevant to solving the problem, and so you should answer all the questions they ask you. Of course, you should also be able to answer the questions, without having to worry that you'll lose support as a result ...

It's absurd to blame the customer in a case like this. She was doing what she was supposed to do; HP wasn't. This sounds like massive lawsuit material, and I hope she gets enough money from them to buy a brand-new laptop (from someone other than HP, probably) every day for the rest of her life.

Speculation

[Puff of Logic (895805)]

It's interesting to speculate as to the reason for this odd policy. The keyboard issues cited in TFA are clearly a purely hardware problem, unrelated to software. I've run some fairly iffy code, but I've yet to encounter something that would make my keyboard start sticking (some websites, however...). This policy's genesis would seem to lie in either ignorance or entanglement and I'm genuinely curious as to which one it is. Is it that HP's tech support folks are poorly adept with Linux and therefore officially eschew non-official installs? Or is there some sort of corporate pressure from Microsoft to make it less easy for Joe Blow to run Ubuntu and its ilk?

Given that HP (again, from TFA) sells laptops with Linux pre-installed, the former seems unlikely. The latter is indeed a fascinating can of worms.

Show me

[smooth wombat (796938)]

"Sorry, we do not honor our hardware warranty when you run Linux."

I would ask the rep to point out where in their warranty this is stated. If it's not in the warranty, they have to honor the request. If they refuse to honor the request, go to your state's Attorney General and file a complaint. After that, post your comments on every blog you can find related to computers. Nothing gets accomplished more quickly than when bad PR is involved.

As someone higher up said, what does what software one has loaded on your system have to do with malfunctioning hardware?

Standard practice

[DogDude (805747)]

As somebody who worked at various helpdesks for a few years as a phone monkey, this is SOP with any company. You can't run through the troubleshooting scripts unless the software on the PC is exactly or very close to the initial load. Helpdesk people are not trained to solve problems, just go through the appropriate steps. So, if you want your warranty honored, suck it up and install Windows. You would have known this if you had read the fine print when you bought the damn thing. If you want a Linux notebook, then buy a Linux notebook. Talk about a sense of entitlement...

Sticky keys of evil

[roman_mir (125474)]

Laura Breeden bought a new Compaq Presario C304NR notebook in January. She bought it because she wanted to get rid of Windows and all the malware that surrounds it and move to Linux, and her old laptop lacked the memory and power to run Ubuntu Edgy. The salespeople assured her that the C304NR was "Linux ready." But they didn't tell her that running Linux would void her warranty. - this does not say whether she bought the laptop with MS Windows preinstalled. Not like it matters much, just a question.

Until recently, she's been happy with it, and with Ubuntu Edgy. But a couple of weeks ago she began having keyboard problems. The keyboard is misbehaving when she begins to type quickly: keys are sticking and the space bar does not always respond when pressed. - they don't build them like they used to.

When she called Compaq -- the unit comes with a one-year warranty on the hardware -- they asked what operating system she was running. When she told them Linux, they said, "Sorry, we do not honor our hardware warranty when you run Linux." In order to get warranty service, she was told, she would have to remove Linux and reinstall the original OS. - now this is trully evil (thus my question, was MS Windows preinstalled on the laptop? From the CSR it sounds like it was.) In any case what do sticky keys on a keyboard have to do with the OS?

Laura is not a software engineer, but she failed to see how her choice of operating system could damage the keyboard. Furthermore, there isn't a word about the subject on the Compaq C304NR Web page -- nothing to alert consumers to the fact that if they chose a reliable, secure operating system like Linux instead of Windows, they would lose their rights to service under warranty. - Laura is not a software engineer, but she is at least 10 times smarter than those Compaq representatives, but she is not evil enough.

She bought the notebook from Best Buy, and they did their best to sell her a maintenance contract ($200 for three years). But since the notebook only cost $549, she thought that was a lot of money to add to the purchase price, and she also thought that she could depend on the Compaq warranty. - or maybe she IS EVIL? What? Not paying for the obligatory extra warranty from Best Buy? Evil I tell you.

I've been tracking this story for a couple of weeks with a PR rep from Hewlett-Packard Customer Service, who has been trying to "do the right thing" by Laura. There has been some discussion of swapping her unit with an HP notebook which is available with Linux preinstalled, but after a couple of weeks of back and forth, nothing has changed. - normally 'do the right thing' in large corporations means either doing nothing (best case) or doing something trully evil, like suing the customer for their choice of product.

The PR rep told me, after wading through all the terms and conditions attached to the notebook's warranty, that "it is impossible to anticipate every single issue that a customer can face, so the terms and conditions of warranties can't list every possible scenario. Usually if a customer installs a different OS, it has a big impact on the PC and will void the warranty. - BS. Evil BS. Usually the OS does not do anything intrinsically bad to the hardware it is running, except for using it of-course.

However, since the OS couldn't have been responsible for keys sticking on a notebook keyboard, I think this is an exception to the rule." She also asserts that Compaq's "warranty terms and conditions are in line with the rest of the industry." - yeah, it is in line with the industry of Evil. Sticking keys on a product must be a new evil way that a customer is trying to undermine the innocent distributor.

I have a feeling that she is correct about that. Gateway and Dell have both declined to respond to queries about their own warranty coverage in a similar scenario. Tier one manufacturers like Dell and HP are locked up in double-blind secrecy about their marketing deal

it's good to have a Thinkpad

[Yonder Way (603108)]

Linux is actually a supported OS on some Thinkpads.

Vote with your $$$. If HP is screwing you, screw them. Give someone else your money that values your business.

I cheated and RTFA'd

[xs650 (741277)]

FTFA
" "When she called Compaq -- the unit comes with a one-year warranty on the hardware -- they asked what operating system she was running. When she told them Linux, they said, "Sorry, we do not honor our hardware warranty when you run Linux." In order to get warranty service, she was told, she would have to remove Linux and reinstall the original OS."

HP didn't refuse warranty coverage, they told he she needed to remove Linux and reinstall the original OS to get warranty service.

That is completely reasonable. The script readers doing the trouble shooting at HP wouldn't be able to trouble shoot a system that didn't have the OS on it that HP originally installed.

Re:I cheated and RTFA'd

[drinkypoo (153816)]

HP didn't refuse warranty coverage, they told he she needed to remove Linux and reinstall the original OS to get warranty service. That is completely reasonable.

That is completely illegal as per the Magnuson-Moss warranty act, which prohibits any tie-in requirements in warranties unless it can be proven that they are necessary for proper functioning of the device.

The other side of the coin: you cannot refuse warranty service to a customer who has used a non-specified product with the system unless you can show that the product they were using can cause the product to fail/be damaged.

You simply can not require the use of windows. If they want a known diagnostic environment on the machine, they can put it in the BIOS. But they can't legally prevent you from using Linux on your own computer. And unless the warranty specifically says that you must be running the packaged OS to get service, then you don't need to. But because of the Magnuson-Moss act, they can't specify that, because it would be an enforced tie-in and thus a violation of federal law.

At least, that's how I read the law. I'm not a lawyer and am not familiar with relevant case law. I would love to hear from an actual lawyer on this.

This is why....

[brunes69 (86786)]

This is one of the reasons why whenever I buy a PC I never remove windows. I just shrink the partition to it's minimal size plus a GB or two, install linux, set it to default. Sometimes I even remove Windows from the grub menu.lst so I can't choose it by accident :)

There are several reasons you should not uninstall windows. One is what this article is about, warranty support. If you ever have a hardware issue you can just delete the linux paritions (after a backup) and ship the thing; unless the tech has some weird reason to do forensic analysis on the HD they will never know it ever had linux on it.

There are other reasons too - wine works better with some applications when you can point it at some actual windows DLLs. Also, you have the ability to boot into Windows to play the occasional game or other multimedia nonsense that don't work in Linux.

Really I don't know why someone who bought a PC that came with Windows, which THEY PAID FOR, would just go erase it anyways. It's a total waste of money, and you aren't sending anyone a "message".

Disk space is dirt cheap. Until you can buy PCs barebones with the Windows tax removed, IMO it is ill-advised to un-install.

Warranty Act

[jimlintott (317783)]

I would think that under the Magnusson-Moss Warranty act that her machine is still warranted by law.

The act says that you can't tie people to only certain products. It's why having your car's brakes fixed at a small shop doesn't void the vehicle's warranty. If you look at Linux as just a part then she should have recourse.

I'd take them to small claims.

It seems to be covered here [ftc.gov]

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

Seems to me that saying use Windows or no warranty is a violation.

Standard disclaimer = IANAL

Re:Who tells the support guy that you're using Lin

[brunascle (994197)]

Who tells the support guy that you're using Linux?

they start to suspect things when you laugh at them after they tell you to click Start -> Run

Re:Uh, Car analogy?

[Kamots (321174)]

If I replaced the software in my cars computer, and then one of my doors falls off, I'd expect it to be fixed under warranty.

Now, if I destroyed my seals due to bad ignition timing, then that's arguably my own fault and wouldn't be covered.

Amazingly, this is how car warranties do work... unauthorized modifications don't void the entire warranty, they just void the coverage on damage that can be linked to your modification.

Now, IANAL, but it may not be a legally binding clause to state that loading a different OS invalidates the entire hardware warranty. I think there's consumer protection laws that'd require there to be a potential link between the two. Hence, replacing a physically defective keyboard should still be covered.