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30 Days With Ubuntu Linux
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 AM
from the making-the-switch dept.
from the making-the-switch dept.
jkwdoc writes "Vexed by Vista's hardware requirements and product activation issues, many have claimed on various boards that they plan to 'switch to Linux.' [H] Consumer spent 30 days using nothing but Ubuntu Linux to find out if this is truly a viable alternative for the consumer. Linux has indeed become much more than the 'Programmer's OS.'"
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[+]
Apple: HardOCP Spends 30 Days With MacOSX 708 comments
boyko.at.netqos writes "Hardocp.com has published "30 days with MacOSX" — with the same author from "30 days with Linux" and "30 days with Vista" doing the evaluation. Ultimately he likes the stability and security but other concerns keep him from recommending it. From the article: 'The hardware lock-in and lack of quality freeware makes owning and maintaining a Macintosh an expensive endeavor ... Mac OS X has some amazing capabilities, but you spend a lot of money. Indeed, it seems the preferred method for solving Mac computer problems is to buy your way out of it. Slow computer? Buy a new one. Want to convert a file? Buy a utility. Want to do simple tasks? Buy a commercial program. Peripherals don't work? Buy replacements.'"
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Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Interesting)
IMHO, anyone who wants all the control of building your own computer, reads a website which has overclocking in the name and thinks Linux/FreeBSD/Open Source is either misguided about the benifits of Linux or is just lazy. Putting your own computer together these days with all the options, choices to make, etc. is getting harder than it was 10 years ago. Meanwhile, Linux has been getting easier. So I don't see where the challenge is for these people.
It is nice to see that non-Linux people are continuing to give Linux a try. Most things in the world only get one chance and then its over.
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe you don't recall IRQ conflicts or undocumented jumpers. Perhaps you don't recall 'Plug and Pray'. To say nothing of cases wherein their manufacturers believed human hands were made of some steely, unbreakable substance and by no means needed protection from sharp metal.
I can slap a computer today very nearly by accident in comparison to the annoying foibles of yester-year-- saying it has become more difficult simply smacks of an unwillingness to become familiar with new technologies. That doesn't really play well in this community, sir.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, you have 5 differant processor sockets, 8 differant chipsets, 3 differant memories all in multiple speeds, differant power supply sockets, PCIx, PCI, and AGP, etc... Plus, it is harder to tell which parts are the fastest or best value now that everyone says their chip all their chips are equivallent to 4 GHz. The chance of being able to upgrade to current equipment is much less than it used to be. Replacing a processor now almost always means memory, power supply, motherboard, and heat sink.
All of this is hard enough building a windows machine, but now couple on getting Linux compatibility, and I say no thanks. I have built dozens of machines for family and friends, but I no longer do. I tell them to go to Dell, buy the cheapest thing, upgrade the memory. I don't have support or warranty issues. Im not returning parts that are wrong, etc...
My best solution to this problem was that when my super tricked out brand new system got stolen, I bought a mac, and it was one of my best computing moves. I paid a rediculous amount, but 3 years later, I haven't felt the need to upgrade it once.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
FIVE GOLD RINGS!
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
I tend to do it on purpose and then tell people it fell down the stairs...
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
Was there some other kind of jumper?
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Funny)
Wasn't this conflict solved when Sddm was kicked out?
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
The challenge is in the purpose. AFAIK, people don't just got into the guts of their system to crank everything up for the joy of theoretical numbers to throw around. Generally, they're after the biggest, baddest box for a reason. A big reason for a lot of people is gaming, after all...it's what consumes the most horsepower. And gaming is currently where Linux falls short. I think if more games (that people want to play) were available with native Linux support, more people would be willing to switch.
Distro's like Ubuntu are great for non-technical users to have a solution to hop on the Internet, check email, do word processing, that sort of thing. In short, all the stuff that a non-technical user is likely to do with a computer anyway.
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
I call bullshit on that one (and yes, I was putting together my own PCs ten years ago).
Then: A dozen different video card manufacturers, twice that many chipsets, equal variety of drivers.
Now: Two major manufacturers, two unified drivers.
Then: IDE=slow. Master? Slave? Cable? WTF is this?
Now: SATA - plug and go.
Then: Set up your modem to connect to your ISP and hope you don't get any incoming calls. Firewall? What's that?
Now: ADSL. Wireless routers. Built-in firewalls.
Then: Scanner? SCSI (and don't forget your terminators). Printer? Parallel. Video in? Forget it.
Now: USB and Firewire.
Then: Steel case weighing 20kg, built out of razor blades.
Now: Complete kit with rounded internal edges, fans in the box, you name it.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
You know how Windows has "My Documents", right? And that's the default place for downloaded files to go?
The analogous concept in Linux is the "home directory". It's called that because each user account on the system has one, and that user has complete power to do whatever they want there, unlike most of the system which requires admin privileges to make changes.
The home directories, logically enough, are all stored in the
The home directory is where the system is going to store lots of stuff -- configuration files for applications, downloaded files, you can even install applications in there (if you're the only user who needs them). In this way the "home directory" concept is more expansive than the "My Documents" concept, which is only for document files (your configs are in the Registry, your apps are in Program Files). It's also why the home directory is more useful than My Documents -- if you regularly backup your home directory, you will have nearly everything you need to bring your Linux box back from the dead in case of emergency.
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Re:Too many choices? (Score:5, Informative)
Additionally, you can use the '~' shortcut. '~' is current user's home directory. It's equivalent to %userprofile% in Windows. '~fred' is user fred's home directory. Also, 'cd' with no directory always changes you back to your home directory (it's the same as 'cd ~').
Linux's unified directory structure is very confusing especially compared to the Windows system (everything is a file, logical to physical mapping is not obvious), but home directories are one of the easiest things possible. The most complicated thing for me was figuring out the difference between
If you think about it though, Windows's directories are also rather complex. Windows doesn't install in C:\Windows. It's really in C:\Windows\System32. Program Files is supposed to be read only, and it's one of the reasons so many apps only work when you're an admin. Documents and Settings, while an accurate name, is filled with hidden directories where the OS is trying to keep the user from breaking it, but you still need to get into them from time to time. pagefile.sys is the system pagefile, hiberfil.sys is for hibernation. NTLDR is the bootstrap, and the bootloader is kept in the volume MBR and is completely hidden since all it does is find NTLDR and run it. Most systems have an \i386 directory copied from the CD since Windows wants it from time to time. There's also \RECYCLER which is the recycle bin, and \System Volume Information which contains information Windows itself uses as well as where it store the Restore Points. %userprofile%\NTUSER.DAT is the user's registry hive, while the other registry hives all live in C:\WINDOWS\system32\config. %windir%\system32\config\systemprofile and %documentsandsettings%\.Default user also exists on most systems, containing information on the default profiles. %windir%\system32\drivers is filled with kernel-mode code (real mode, mostly drivers) and %windir%\system32\dllcache contains protected-mode code (user-mode apps). Then there's 5 or 6 different temp directories, and storage locations for Group Policy, security objects, system logs, etc.
IMX, none of that is half as well documented as the Linux stuff.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Interesting)
Mac doesn't manage system wide updates at all. For every app, you have to hope it has a "check for update" option, somewhere. With Linux package managers, it's across the system, for all applications. Mac will never do this, because Apple vs Mac developers is a dysfunctional relationship, Apple wants to make it awkward so they can unfairly compete when they feel like it.
Finally, Mac apps and updates are often lazy, and request the system is restarted. Linux packages rarely do this.
I don't know what your Linux package management experiences are, but I've rarely had any issues installing, updating and removing apps, although granted on systems like Debian they are not the most up to date, which rarely matters over the advantages of everything being managed.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:4, Informative)
Personally though, while the upfront cost is nice, I found it beneficial a LONG time ago to stick with homebuilt PC's, simply because they all use fairly standard equipment. My first x86-based computer was a Packard Bell 486, and it pained me as that thing got old that there was very, very little I could do with it to keep it updated (everything was proprietary). So my next PC was one of those "screw driver" shop ones from a local store where they built them with everything off the shelf. That was circa 1996 or so. Since then, I've never actually bought an entirely new PC. Don't get me wrong, my current computer is absolutely zero components in common with that system (and I've been through countless iterations of unique configurations), but all of that has been done through an upgrade here, an upgrade there, etc. With almost any major manufacturer's systems, you eventually just have to dump it and start again.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Informative)
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price
1 Rosewill R103A Black SGCC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: R103A
Item #: N82E16811147010
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$30.99 -$5.00 Instant $25.99
1 Foxconn K8S755A-6ELRS Socket 754 SiS 755 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: K8S755A-6ELRS
Item #: N82E16813186068
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$36.99 $36.99
1 MSI MX4000-T64 DDR AGP 2X/4X Low Profile Video Card - Retail
Model #: MX4000-T64
Item #: N82E16814127128
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$23.99 $23.99
1 AMD Sempron 64 2800+ Palermo 1.6GHz Socket 754 Processor Model SDA2800AIO3BX - OEM
Model #: SDA2800AIO3BX
Item #: N82E16819104244
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
$27.00 $27.00
1 WINTEC AMPO 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory Model 35145588-P - Retail
Model #: 35145588-P
Item #: N82E16820161615
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$33.99 $33.99
1 Western Digital Caviar WD800BB 80GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD800BB
Item #: N82E16822144102
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
$40.99 $40.99
1 LITE-ON Combo Black IDE Model LH-52C1P-187 - Retail
Model #: LH-52C1P-187
Item #: N82E16827106058
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
In Stock
$23.99 $23.99
1 Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
Model #: 66I-00715
Item #: N82E16832116202
Return Policy: Software Return Policy
In Stock
$119.99 $119.99
Subtotal: $332.93
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Interesting)
Who gives a fuck, it's new and it's cheap. Cheaper with XP or Linux instead of Vista, which I spent a good 3 hours setting up for someone yesterday (on a Dell) and was underimpressed. It sounds cliche, but there really are a lot of people who just want to use their computer to check email, surf the Internet and watch youtube videos. Call his suggested configuration outdated if you will, but it is adequate for a large group of users. I would also suggest that this configuration may actually boot up faster and run just as quickly as the average Dell because it won't come preinstalled without the megabytes of crap software that Dell likes to include with thier OEM and run at boot time. Ironically enough, looking through the invoice, they listed and charged $.01 per peice of crap software preinstalled. I can only guess it's for accounting/inventory purposes that they would do such a thing. I would hope that if they are going to charge for crap software that I don't want, even if it is a penny, I should have the opportunity to opt out when ordering.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Informative)
AMD Sempron(TM) 3400+
Genuine Windows Vista(TM) Home Basic
512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 1DIMM
80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache(TM)
16X DVD-ROM Drive
No Monitor
NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Cost: $389 ($359 plus $30 shipping)
Below is a quicker perusal of Newegg. Note that I could slightly downgrade some of these specs (such as going with a Sempron 3000 instead of 3400 to save money, an option which isn't available from Dell), and I could also shop around and likely come out cheaper than Newegg, but it's a good place to through lots of stuff together:
AMD Sempron 64 3400+ Manila 1.8GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model SDA3400CNBOX - Retail $69.99
Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Home Basic for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM $94.99
Patriot 512MB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200) Desktop Memory Model PSD251253381H $33.99
Western Digital Caviar WD800BB 80GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM $40.99
LG Beige E-IDE/ATAPI DVD-ROM Drive Model 8164BI - Retail $17.99
PC CHIPS A33G V1.0 Socket AM2 SiS 761 GX Micro ATX AMD Motherboard (w/ integrated video/network/sound) - Retail $46.99
POWMAX CP808PL-1 Beige Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450W Power Supply - Retail $20.99
DCT Factory KBJ-006UB Black USB Standard Keyboard - Retail $3.99
Rosewill RM800P Black 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel PS/2 Wired Optical Mouse - OEM $3.49
Total: $362 ($334 plus $32 shipping)
Savings over $27 on building yourself. Not huge, but it is a savings, and at these costs that's darned close to 10%.
Parent
Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
My original point still remains exactly the same despite your completely irrelevant comments: building your own system *can* be done cheaper than Dell (even on the low end - the price savings increases as you approach the high end), but if you want the extra warranty or support, you can buy from them.
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Re:Misguided or simply lazy (Score:5, Insightful)
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retromercial (Score:5, Funny)
Re:retromercial (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:retromercial (Score:4, Informative)
From the wikipedia entry: [wikipedia.org]
Another famous advertising campaign from the early 1980s took the viewer inside various gourmet restaurants as a voice-over whispered, "We are here at (insert name of four-star restaurant), where we've secretly replaced the fine coffee they usually serve with Folgers Crystals. Let's see if anyone can tell the difference!" Of course, no one ever did.
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I remember similar stuff said about XP (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I remember similar stuff said about XP (Score:5, Interesting)
Now Vista on the other hand has elicited nothing but hand wringing for several years. For what I can tell it has little good to offer except eye candy. On the downside the OS has DRM in it's DNA, it has a ridiculous security sceme. It fails to run lots of current software. It claims but fails to be more secure (can't use 3rd party anti-virus). It has extreme hardware requirements. I built my last new PC within months of the release of XP. I will not build a PC for Vista. I will not buy a PC with Vista. I do not look forward to the day that I must start using Vista at work.
The big question is this: Linux or Apple? I have an older PC in the house running Ubuntu. It's great, and it also sucks. It has tons of free software. It can't legally play DVDs. It is supremely stable and runs really fast on very antiquated hardware. Getting it to do something out of the ordinary (like using the midi keyboard I got for my son) requires navigating a byzantine maze of forums, scripts, command lines. It fit nicely with my philosophy. You can build your own. On the other hand, Apples "just work." They cost more. You don't get to build your own. Since I don't have as much time as I used to I'll probably buy an Apple for 90% of my use, and I might have a 2nd PC with linux for doing stuff that requires high end software that I don't care to buy.
That being said, am I a typical user? Hardly. I've been on the internet since 1988. I built my last computer myself. I know enough to know how little I know. Lots of people think I'm some sort of computer guru. I realize that I am just barely competent. I would never recommend linux to my Dad or a computer-clueless friend. I tell them, "Go buy a Mac. They just work." When they get their Apple, they are happy. I'd rather USE a computer than ADMINISTER one.
Parent
Commendable but... (Score:5, Insightful)
What's really needed is some 'professional' IT organisation to sell a definitive Linux solution for a whole workplace. And support it. And point out that actually it a) costs less to support and b) is way cheaper.
Personally, I think it's viable, and I can see IBM gradually moving that way, and perhaps Sun too. But they'll have a lot of work to do to overcome the 'No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft' attitude that's ingrained into most of the workplaces in the world. (I'm still somewhat stunned at the complete lack of understanding of the mere existance of Unix that I see in my current, IT company).
*shrug* I look forward to a day when every business desktop runs Linux. I think there's a lot of people who's talents are wasted being support monkeys for cranky windows bogosity. But at the same time, I can't see it happening, simply because it'll put a lot of people out of work.
Who the hell is this end user that edits DVDs? (Score:5, Interesting)
She DOESN'T do any DVD editing. She DOES use digital photography (in that I send her pictures of her great grandson and she views them). She's even managed to solve minor problems on her own. She writes documents, receives documents (both word and excel), and has had no issues to date that could not be solved in 10 minutes on the phone.
Her only major complaint? It's not the user interface. It's not the multifunction printer/copier/scanner. It's not the funky colors. It's not the email. It's that she can't make the computer wit more than 2 hours before hibernating.
Perhaps these "reviews" of "typical users" should evealuate what a real "typical user" actually is.
It's the Internet! (Score:5, Interesting)
My quest to "switch" (Score:4, Informative)
I chose openSUSE, simply because it got some Press(Read: Novell).
I have XP on Toshiba Laptop and wanted to have a dual boot on it.
I used GParted [sourceforge.net] for partition, though openSUSE came with partition manager. GParted was very easy and "Windows like"
The installation went smooth and openSUSE recognized all hardware. I chose GNome as the desktop, simply because Firefox came with it.
I played around and customized to my liking. Opened the Terminal and played with the vi editor. It seems like vi skills are etched in memory(I used to program in C years ago).
I hit the road block with wireless network. The installer recognized Intel 3945 wireless card, but would not connect.
Doing a Google search(are you happy now Google lawyers?), I found I am not alone. I tried ALL solutions offered on various forums.
1. Using Intel's Linux driver - This required a kernel version of 2.6.8 or greater. openSUSE 10.2's kernel is 2.6.16 or something. It is only sensible to use the native driver right? I hit the wall again and again.
2. ndiswrapper - Grudgingly I tried this as a last resort. Same result.
Time spent: Few weekday evenings and a weekend (to the dismay of spouse)
I absolutely love the shiny OS. Unfortunately I can not use it without an wireless internet connection.
So it sits there unused.(I changed the default OS to Windows in GRUB).
I switched to Debian desktop in 2005 (Score:4, Interesting)
I thought I would miss some things in Windows but I didn't. The thing I thought I would miss most was Microsoft Word, but Abiword did fine. I was always concerned I would have to modify my resume and send it out in a nice Word format that Linux wouldn't have, but that was never a problem. I never missed Windows for anything. They talk about Windows having better hardware support, but my (then) 802.11b wireless was a hell of a lot easier to install on my system then Linux. I also liked the ability to open a shell and just be able to do stuff - do an awk or sort or whatever on a file, have multiple windows and so forth. It had all the nice user brain-dead stuff of Windows, but I could drop to a shell and actually do stuff, instead of getting some MS-DOS prompt crap. It's much better nowadays than my old days when I had a Linux kernel version 1 running fvwm as one of my work desktops (the other desktop at that time was a Sun IPX running SunOS 4.1.3_U1).
My question to Ubuntu/linux preachers (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd usually spend efforts trying to improve on things that would help me at work.
Anyway, now im starting a web hosting and web design (very) small company. I'm not really impressed by the direction MS is taking nor by the fees its charging. Vista smells like a truckload of overhead shit that i have zero interest in even trying out. The 2003 line of servers from MS is just too expensive just to avoid mentionning i hate the notion of online activation/tracking.
I've installed Ubuntu and other distros of linux at the time and while I've always got stuck with the file structure and various command lines to learn, i feel this is something i could get the hang of over time.
But what brings me back everytime to windows are my own limitations regarding programming. At work, we do ASP and ASP.net. Not c#, vb.net. I can read c# but i don't really program with it.
I have no interest in learning php, ruby or other languages despite all their advantages. Because at work that's not what we use and I'd rather re-use my skills rather than split into a new branch just because im having something on the side.
so, my question is, is there any (easy) way i could be running the
I know its pretty contracdictory but i dont want to install overhead on my server just for the benefit of running
So, is it possible ?
Re:My question to Ubuntu/linux preachers (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Get the mono (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.mono-project.com/ [mono-project.com]
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My Ubuntu Experience (Score:4, Informative)
What I really miss in Ubuntu is a good and simple file manager. Nautilus is okay, but doesn't work in the intuitive way Windows Explorer works. Some annoying usability problems I have with it:
a) The tree view on the left panel doesn't answer to keyboard commands that work on folders and files in the right panel, such as pressing Del to delete a folder. Windows Explorer is consistent in this regards.
b) It doesn't get updated properly if I use a bookmarked folder to jump to a folder, I must press the Reload button for the tree structure to appear correctly. The same feature in Windows Explorer works as intended, with the tree instantaneously opening to where I jumped.
c) When I delete a folder I'm inside by right-clicking it in the tree folder and choosing Remove, it moves both the folder and the fact I'm inside it to the trash, thus making me lose the position I were in the tree. Windows Explorer deletes the folder and put me in the folder directly below the one that was deleted.
d) I can't move a file or folder with the mouse right-button. Windows Explorer allows this by showing me a context-sensitive menu when I release the button, offering options such as move, delete, create link, and other features integrated into the shell.
e) Lastly, even though Nautilus recognize some oddly named text files as such, double clicking them is an exercise in guessing: sometimes it will offer me a window asking me whether I want to run it (when it doesn't have the executable attribute set) or open it, other times it'll simply open it in GEdit, and others still it won't allow me to open them in GEdit, forcing me to right-click and choose the "Open with Text Editor" option. Windows Explorer, on the other hand, allows me easily select a default action for files with this or that extension, and it simply works.
If someone knows of a Linux file manager that works in intuitive ways, if possible a Windows Explorer clone with Gnome integration, please tell me. I'll start using it right away.
PS.: Interestingly enough, I play World of Warcraft, and while it started breaking in my Windows XP installation, showing latencies of up to 15000ms and disconnecting, in Ubuntu with Wine it works almost flawlessly. One more reason to keep Ubuntu running.
Gave Ubuntu a fair trial myself - bought Vista (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been interested in Linux for a long time, but as yet I haven't found it suitable to be a *complete replacement* for Windows; and unfortunately because it's so inconvenient switching back and forth, I might as well use the platform which works for me. I find myself facing Compromises quite a lot with Linux, and this is fine for a secondary machine but not a primary one. The compromises are fully understandable - most of the software is written by unpaid volunteers in their small amounts of free time, there are patent/DMCA issues holding back certain areas and many hardware and software manufacturers simply refuse to develop for Linux. However the fact remains that there are still compromises to be made - and ones which I'm not willing to make when I can pay £67 and do everything and never have any compatibility problems, compromises or headaches.
I have a long log of my experience with Ubuntu somewhere, but basically it boils down to this:
- Installation itself was ridiculously easy - on par with Vista. It was after installation that things went downhill...
- It didn't recognise my 1Gb network port (Asus P5B) so I had to use the 100Mb one until I *recompiled the kernel with patches* (messy, and getting the bits together for compiling it was a bitch)
- I never got wireless networking going, it would see the access points and connect to them but not get any data through and signal quality read '0'. I knew what I was doing and it was clearly a bug. Even ndiswrapper with the win98 drivers didn't work. There were endless other people encountering exactly the same problem in the Ubuntu Forums (network section) but nobody coming up with working answers. I am not willing to accept "well you have a wire connection, use that" as an answer.
- I got bluetooth kind-of working, although it was flaky to say the least (to be fair, the same usually applies in Windows. I only know of Macs and other non-PCs that have decent, reliable bluetooth support)
- Getting something other than 60Hz on my monitor, required hacking xorg.conf manually... I can do this so it's not a problem, but really I shouldn't have had to. A flaw with Ubuntu rather than Linux itself (and a long standing flaw as I had the same problem with early versions) as other distros handle monitor detection and configuration perfectly.
- Getting things like java, flash, etc were a ballache, as ever, due to all the licensing/patent issues.
- World of Warcraft didn't work in WINE or Crossover when I tried it. I didn't get around to messing with it much, to be fair, but I expected the latter to work as it's advertised as one of their primary supported products.
- I'm a keen photographer, and photography in Linux is "pants", to say the least. The only decent, configurable RAW converter (not dcraw, which only does the basics) was the commercial Bibble, and even then - due to it not using Canon's SDK - it's not a patch on Breezebrowser Pro or Canon's own DPP in Windows when the results are put side by side. Photography was essentially the deal-killer with me: there are many things I'm willing to compromise on or 'live with' - but I am not willing to compromise on my photos, otherwise I wouldn't have bought a 30D.
- What with all the other bits of software and games for Windows which are not ported to Linux or supported in WINE, and the sheer amounts of time you *still* have to invest in getting anything out-of-the-ordinary working (not nice after a hard day at work when all you want to do is spend the few available hours having fun) I'm afraid I went with the horned devil. £67 (Home Premium OEM) seems like a very reasonable amount to pay after all the wrestling with Ubuntu
Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Insightful)
Does have a normal UNIX shell environment?
Then it's got all the control you need.
Parent
Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Informative)
Sudo gives you root access for the purpose immediately at hand, and then takes you back to your account. It lets you get in, get out, and not have your fanny hanging out there on the net in admin mode for someone to burn you.
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Re:On the other hand... (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:On the other hand... (Score:5, Funny)
For this reason I've now banned my cat from playing with matches. I had a maths teacher once who claimed his cat could do quadratic equations better than anyone in his class which did make me wonder that if he was able to teach his cat so successfully to do maths why he couldn't teach his class to do it so well, I suggested he may have had a more fulfilling career in a circus at which he looked surprised and said he thought that's what he had done.
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OS changing is too complicated for most people (Score:5, Insightful)
Changing OS is too complicated for most people, and there's not enough payback. If it works, why break it? If you can send email, and look at the web, and write a letter, and it took a lot of pain to get that far, why change the system you use and have to learn all over again, maybe losing your old files? That's how most people see it.
Changing OS may cost nothing financially, but for many people, their time isn't free. The time required to install the new software, get up to speed using the new tools and assuring yourself that you can access your old files and all your other hardware (printer, digital camera, internet connection, etc) is either lost business time (=costs money) or lost personal time (=time away from more pleasant use of leisure time). It's only "free" if you were going to spend that time messing around with a computer anyway. For many people that's not the case.
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Re:Obligatory karma hit (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and:
5) If you act like a spoiled jerk on a community-driven forum, stamp your little feet, and absolutely refuse to try any of their troubleshooting ideas or provide them with the information they repeatedly ask for, then they probably won't help you.
Yeah, I read the thread [ubuntuforums.org] where you "tried" to get help. Your take on the episode doesn't have a lot to do with what you actually posted at the time.
Moderators, before you mark me down, actually read the Slashdot thread he linked to. I'm not the one who initially pointed out his tantrums and complete refusal to help fix his own problem. I can't believe that he uses that thread as supporting evidence of why Ubuntu is broken.
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Re:Obligatory karma hit (Score:5, Informative)
Before you make this even more frustrating for me:
Nice way to ask for help. Sure makes me feel like giving you a hand (or maybe a boot up the ass). Mm-hmm.
I should never have believed all that crap about "providing access to all".
Useful information? Missing. Needless slagging off of OS you're purportedly trying to convert to? Check.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide in helping undo the damage Ubuntu has done.
I guess there wasn't quite enough needless slagging off yet.
I thought -- probably because of all the liberation/openness rhetoric of Ubuntu -- I wouldn't need Microsoft software to get Ubuntu to work.
And I guess he thought you were actually interested in recovering your PC instead of trolling the forums.
So in other words, you didn't read my first post, in which I said that the disc is fine and I've tried reinstalling multiple times. This just makes my day.
If this is how you act towards people you've never met who are trying to help you, I'd hate to work with you.
Don't see what difference that makes, given as I can't even get into Windows, and the problem is obviously due to GRUB. Seems like a fishing expedition there.
How about just giving him the fucking information he asked for? Too much to ask for some people, I guess...
Just yesterday I thought I knew what chutzpah was.
"Starting on the right foot" would include "not getting locked out of my computer because I installed a OS billed as 'Linux for Human Beings' ". "Starting on the right foot" would include finding instructions that answer the frequently asked question of "how do I set up a new partition and install to that partition?". "Starting on the right foot" would include an Ubuntu forum that doesn't take me a week of trying to access from different computers and connections before it consistently loads.
Stop making excuses. So I wouldn't answer what Windows version it is. Can anyone think of any reason why one version of Windows over another would cause GRUB error 25? No? Okay then.
The problem is not the devices, or the Windows version, or getting the latest install CD, or scratches on the install CD. The problem is the boot loader. The problem has already been diagnosed. You just want to chase all these wild geese because you don't want to admit that maybe this "access for all" OS has a serious problem.
Would somebody just tell me how to edit, modify, fix, whatever, the boot loader? That's all. It should be really simple, given the rigorous testing that they would put a software capable of locking you out of your computer through.
Sheesh. You actually expected that to make people want to help you more than they were already?
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Re:Obligatory karma hit (Score:4, Insightful)
You were asked what your hardware setup was -- including motherboard. I did not see any answer to this question.
I don't know if this was related to the problem, but I would certainly suspect it could be. You have a 1250MHz Athlon -- that's about a 1400+ or 1500+, correct? The sort of motherboard that would accept such a processor might not have BIOS support for >137GB disks
And you had your installation on a 200GB disk, correct?
So, I don't know if I have hit on the solution. You have not revealed it (why not unless you are just a troll?), but YOU FAILED TO ANSWER A CRITICAL question.
You were also rude, which is hardly a way to get help. In fact, I don't think you really wanted a solution -- you just wanted an excuse to complain about Ubuntu. That's why you have not revealed what the eventual solution was.
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Informative)
Tremulous: http://tremulous.net/ [tremulous.net] (Repositories free)
Legends: http://legendsthegame.net/ [legendsthegame.net] (download free)
Uplink: http://www.uplink.co.uk/ [uplink.co.uk]
Darwinia: http://www.darwinia.co.uk/ [darwinia.co.uk]
Defcon: http://www.introversion.co.uk/defcon/ [introversion.co.uk]
Don't assume they're all rubbish till you've actually played them. Preferably on Linux. (Except Sim City. Thats rubbish.)
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Informative)
It's a catch 22. More people would use Linux if the games were there. But the games aren't there because not enough people use linux.
For the record (before I get poo pood) I've had ubuntu and mandrake on 2 seperate comps. My laptop (3-4 years old) runs everything just fine. My desktop (2 years old) did not have driver support for what I have in it, and most likely will not receive driver support (Soundblaster X-fi sound card). Not to mention the config editing I had to do to get the Nvidia 6800 to work.
As a hobby Linux is fine. You won't get the gaming freaks to switch over any time soon.
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Insightful)
You know in reality this fanaticism toward total open source is just ridiculous. On the one hand you see everyone saying Linux is only good if you are true open source while the majority say that they want quality commerical games and apps running under it. You can't have both. No one is going to release a commercial application or game as open source. So just consider the OS open source and get the applications/games running so the market share can grow.
I see the zealots holding everyone in a catch 22 with their false logic. We need development and yes that means comemrcial apps. Linux is just an OS. The applications and games are just applications and games. What benefits the users is more important then even open source. Never relinquish the open source product to the commercial venue but realize that the OS is just that, the OS. It is meant to be installed and forgotten. The users don't interact with the OS they interact with the applications and games. If you can get that through those zealot's thick skulls we'll have growth in the market. But that also means a real stand-alone universal distro applications installer.
It's about the USER not about the OS. Never has. These zealots have the same disease that Microsoft has -- OSitis. We, the users are the king. It is us that make or break you. It isn't about the OS. Your OS should provide the services to the apps and games so that we the users can benefit the greatest in the smallest amount of time.
All in all, I use Linux as my main box. My favorite game (Enemy-Territory) plays just fine on it. If I want to get any of my other games installed I can. Not that I can get them all but through Cedega or Wine I can. Keep in mind that there are quality commercial games out there such as Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights, Quake 3, UT2003/2004.
The problem here is DX9 and 10. It is a closed environment which requires a sizeable investment to learn and develop for. With Vista discontinuing support for OpenGL (even though OpenGL is still a widely competent and quality product) it makes it hard for developers to choose to target OpenGL even as a secondary target audience. These are efforts of a Monopoly power using tactics to close down its competition, clearly.
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Interesting)
Not true. Ubuntu installs very smoothly, and if you don't mind paying for Cedega, Cedega and the games it supports also install very quickly, easily and smoothly. Installing firefox was a lot harder. Or installing WinXP. Or those very same games on Windows, even. Seriously, for gaming, Ubuntu+Cedega is as easy as you could hope for, annd it gives you a lot more control than you'd have in Windows.
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Re:ya but (Score:5, Interesting)
It may simply be spoken by someone who values big explosions and flashy effects over playability. (Face it... Nethack IS ugly. It also happens to be a good game, but that doesnt' change the fact that it's ugly.)
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