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Dvorak On Microsoft/Novell Deal
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:55 AM
from the they-all-wear-party-hats dept.
from the they-all-wear-party-hats dept.
zaxios writes, "John C. Dvorak has weighed in on the recent Novell-Microsoft pact. Among his insights: 'Microsoft has been leery of doing too much with Linux because of all the weirdness with the licenses and the possibility that one false move would make a Microsoft product public domain at worst, or subject to the GPL at best.' But now, 'the idea is to create some sort of code that is jammed into Linux and whose sole purpose is to let some proprietary code run under Linux without actually "touching" Linux in any way that would subject the proprietary code to the GPL.' According to Dvorak, it's only a matter of time before Linux is 'cracked' by Microsoft, meaning Microsoft figures out a way to run proprietary code on it."
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Meta-flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meta-flamebait (Score:4, Interesting)
I couldn't agree more. Dvorak has been proven to be an asshat so many times I can't begin to count them. I mean read this paragraph:
We already have something like that. It's called Java. Java hasn't put Linux to the torch. What makes Dvorak think that Microsoft will be able to do it?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh man, you almost had it. It is, actually, called Mono, and it could run almost every code written for
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Meta-flamebait (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Meta-flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think its more that Dvorak is almost completely clueless, but is very well spoken and is a good writer. He sounds competent to the PHB's, but to anylone who is familiar with the GPL and open source, he sounds like a complete ignoramous.
If you read the whole thing, and reword it in your head, it makes sense :) MS has kernel optimizations for their software. MS Software, without these kernel optimizations would run like crap on any other OS. MS needs shims in the kernel to get these optimizations to
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Meta-flamebait (Score:5, Interesting)
They're not just flamebait, they're flamebait on purpose. The purpose of the dvorak flamebait articles is generating clicks on the articles in question, and generating the ad revenue linked with those clicks. This has even been admitted by dvorak (or one of the dvoraks, since it's likely to just be a name they assign to writers), and this admission of guilt [slashdot.org] has appeared on slashdot.
The key thing to learn about this is to never, ever, browse to a dvorak article, because that is exactly what they want you to do.
Parent
Re:Meta-flamebait - Yes (Score:5, Informative)
There is nothing to figure out. You can run proprietary software on Linux today. Look at Oracle.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Win98 on current machinery is friggin FAST. Now, run each app in its own environment, with limited network access (network ONLY to host running virtualization). Instant win98 network with 1 "computer" for each program.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hmmm .... Microsoft Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this Microsoft's intent? Unfortunately, probably not. I don't see them providing users with the ability to get rid of their Windows PCs
Who knows, the end result will be interesting for sure.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Making
Re:Hmmm .... Microsoft Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
There is absolutely no reason why Microsoft can't write code that runs on Linux and still have it be proprietary.
Absolutely no reason at all.
The kernel is GPL, yes, but Linus' license modification clearly states that closed source code can run on the Linux kernel and shall not be considered a 'derivative work'.
Tons of proprietary code runs on Linux with absolutely no GPL issues: Oracle, Veritas Netbackup, WordPerfect, StarOffice (pieces are proprietary), etc.
As for toolkits, GTK+ is LGPL. Meaning Microsoft could target closed source GUI applications for GTK+ with no issues. QT is GPL unless you make arrangement$$$ with TrollTech.
As for desktops, some parts of GNOME are GPL, others are LGPL. Gotta be careful there, but if you just link against GTK+ and not GNOME libraries, Microsoft should be okay.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Then they can turn around and tell the courts that they make their software available for Linux but that consumers don't want it and aren't buying it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My best guess as to the meaning of sections of those paragraphs:
The LGPL essentially forbids you from statically linking a library into your work
The LGPL allows dynamically linking (though this may be interpretable, as there are wording conflicts
Re:Hmmm .... Microsoft Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
So this is a play at the corporate market to retain control while use of virtualization grows.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
1. Divide and Conquer?
2. Win4Lin dying out? / Xen/virtualization alternatives..
1. I think that msoft is trying to "divide and conquer" Linux by giving Novell cold hard cash and partnership, which equate to having an existence. Once ms defines what is and is not supported (seems they've been saying such things), then ANY companies "daring" to use Linux will start to (like sheep) feel th
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I call bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
He has no idea of what he is talking about. Of course one can already run proprietary code in Linux. Many libraries are available under the LGPL instead of GPL. This deal does not change much to that fact.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I am beginning to suspect that this Dvorak chap can't tell his arse from his elbow.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a trap! (Score:4, Funny)
why are we publicizing this FUD? (Score:5, Interesting)
Bullsh*t. By putting this on the front page of
Re:why ... Good question! Can anyone explain... (Score:2, Insightful)
Dvorak's column does not seem to be coherent to me.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm glad this stuff gets posted from time to time. I don't read Dvorak's writings. But plenty of other people do. Its not a bad thing to have some idea of what memes this guy (and others of his ilk) are putting out there. Otherwise the first I hear of this silliness is during some IT strategy meeting or whatnot. Having read the article, I'll know what Dvorak clai
Doesn't proprietary code already run it? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sure many people can run MS Office in Wine. Now why you'd want to is another matter
Can I mod his comment -1 (not so insightful)?
No, you can't mod him (Score:3, Funny)
I would... (Score:2)
And most of all, I'd have the stability of Linux and could run MS programs (there's not much in terms of business productivity apps in Linux).
Dvorak once again shows his cluelessness (Score:5, Informative)
2. Nothing at all is stopping you from running proprietary code on a GNU/Linux system, as long as the GPL license on the GNU/Linux parts of the system is honoured. You can easily use the Linux kernel, the GNU Tools and put a proprietary graphical system on it or just running proprietary software packages. Apple uses quite a few GNU tools, yet keeps Aqua closed, and lots of vendors have released proprietary software packages for Linux.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
[setting the wayback machine to the 1990s] ...lessee, Microsoft here. What are we going to do next? I see, let's do a web browser. Let's put it into the kernel! Yeah, that'll impress the Department of Justice!
No version of Windows has ever had any version of IE in its kernel.
And hey, let's move some multimedia stuff into the kernel.
I don't know what you're referring to by "multimedia stuff", but I'd be fairly willing to bet you're wrong about that as well.
And of course the whole graphical subsystem s
run proprietary code on it? (Score:5, Informative)
Gee, everyone else knows how to run proprietary code on linux. MS can't be too swift if they can't figure that.
Perhaps more is meant by "run on it"???
all the best,
drew
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/262954 [ourmedia.org]
Sayings - Deterred Bahamian Novel
CC BY-SA
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Ah that was a mere prepositional mix-up by marketing. I do believe that 'run over it' was the intended meaning.
Sounds familiar.... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Under the patent cooperation agreement, Novell's customers receive directly from Microsoft a covenant not to sue. Novell does not receive a patent license or covenant not to sue from Microsoft, and we have not agreed with Microsoft to any condition that would contradict the conditions of the GPL. Our agreement does not affect the freedom that Novell or anyone else in the open source community, including developers, has under the GPL and does not impose any condition that would contradict the conditions of the GPL. Therefore, the agreement is fully compliant with the GPL,"
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4685037869.html [linux-watch.com]
That reminds me of another, historical, agreement:
"Under the treaty, England receives directly from Germany a promise not to attack Poland. England does not receive a promise not to attack Germany, and we have not agreed with Germany to any condition that would contradict the conditions of previous treaties. Our agreement does not affect the freedom that Poland or any other country in Europe, including France, has under previous treaties and does not impose any condition that would contradict the conditions of such treaties. Therefore, the treaty is fully compliant with all previous treaties."
Sincerely,
Neville Chamberlain
Re:Sounds familiar.... (Score:4, Interesting)
> Too bad that most Americans wont get it.
You certainly don't, considering that you didn't even reference the right war.
Or was I just treated to a demonstration of Dvorak's journalism technique?
Parent
Read COPYING (Score:4, Insightful)
i.e., what nVidia and ATi have been doing for years now?
Nevertheless: Not In My Kernel.
Proprietary code runs on Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
It's the license, stupid! (Score:5, Insightful)
Comparing the GPL and Vista EULA, Microsoft is winning the weirdness license war hands down.
Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
What, like writing a program and distributing it as a binary-only for-pay title?
It's only GPL if you use someone else's code. Why in the fucking hell are we still hearing stupid shit like this in 2006?
It's the Dvorak Clown! (Score:5, Funny)
That's not a group of words we see very often when coupled with that man's name.
Who is this guy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux will be cracked (Score:3, Insightful)
Pssst! Hey Guys, seems you missed the memo, all of that stuff is available in CVS or SVN anonymously! You don't need to crack anything, it's all there, you don't even need a Password. We actually want you to use it, we'll even let you help us make it better for everyone if you want.
So what? (Score:3, Interesting)
Novell is even in the process of making the code more vanilla and has ripped out non-OSS stuff from the kernel, even though this might mean some hardware won't run anymore.
Also read the following:
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensou
It is fun/sad to see that the FUD is coming only from people who are 'pro OSS'. I start to think they are not pro anything. They are just anti M$.
For all those who think that Novell is suddenly the anti-christ, understand that they support more then just one OSS project:
http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects [opensuse.org]
Should I bother to RTFA? (Score:3, Informative)
Also, last I checked, there is [sun.com] already proprietary [nero.com] software [adobe.com] for [zend.com] Linux [adobe.com] already [mainconcept.com] and GPL hasn't stopped them due to any viral "tainting."
(Yeah I know one of those is going GPL soon but isn't yet)
Then there are those which skirt the GPL and where the legality is questionable, such as NVidia's and ATI's video drivers.
Open source "at best" (Score:5, Insightful)
BTW when he says "Microsoft has been leery of doing too much with Linux because of all the weirdness with the licenses" I think it's pretty hilarious because:
-(obv) he's projecting his own confusion about licenses onto microsoft
-(also obv) he and his ilk are the creators of the confusion b/c they love writing columns about what they do not understand
-Sorry
Parent
Re:There is an old saying (Score:4, Interesting)
The only way they can do that in this case would be to destroy access to the toolchain...because without the toolchain, nobody can create new distributions.
This is where, as much as it pains me to admit it, with the GNU/Linux stuff, in a way RMS is right. The GNU project is very much the centre of gravity where Linux is concerned, because it is how Linux propogates itself.
Microsoft *could* sink Linux if it took out the FSF...but the good news there is that the FSF is very well protected by public opinion. If there is one thing Stallman genuinely *is* extremely good at, it's at least developing the appearance of holding the moral high ground. ESR was right when he wrote that Stallman has a thirst for martyrdom...Stallman recognises the power that martyrdom contains. He uses Gandhi's scorpionic [allaboutfrogs.org] tactics extremely well.
Parent