Lower Saxony KDE Migration 119
An anonymous reader writes "ZDNet reports on a recent German Linux migration by the tax authority in Lower Saxony which has made the decision to migrate an impressive 12,000 desktops to SuSE Linux using KDE. The project, which is now in process converting 300 desktops daily, moves systems from Solaris x86 version 8, which the organisation has been running since 2002. The migrations are reported as going well thus far. KDE's Kiosk desktop customisation, source code access and licensing costs were cited as key reasons for the decision. Congratulations to all involved, and best of luck going forward with this effort!"
Hmmm (Score:2, Funny)
If we start hearing about big Win32 -> *nix migrations, THEN maybe we can say kill -9 [stanford.edu] to billy boy...
But more importantly, it's telling that we're not hearing about good, honest, honorable American migrations. We know all about Germans [shelleytherepublican.com] and the so-called "sport" [shelleytherepublican.com] they are hosting for the so-called "world"... and in any case, we know Linux isn't as reliable as Windows [shelleytherepublican.com] yet...
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
This one is more interesting than most however. Normally you here about that on the server side. It's interesting that the organisation is choosing to retain Unix-based desktops rather than go Win32. Interesting also that they've not moved to Solaris 10.
Cheers, Ian
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Or even hear about it...
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
But my experience with Solaris, for many years, is that to make it usable you have to basically replace a lot of core tools with the much more powerful and better built ones from the FSF, many of which are core to Linux OS deployments. Emacs, sendmail, more, make, bash, gcc, and tar, all are much better deployed from recent FSF releases or maybe www.sunfreeware.com rebund
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
Or what? Will you tell my mother? Like Richard does every time I forgot the "GNU/"?
> It's really not, in a number of important software ways
But it is still similar enough to be called UNIXy.
> but especially in legally binding trademark ways.
Oh, oh, oh, I think misusing a holy commercial trademark in a discussion forum will not be giving me sleepless nights, actually.
Troll? Nah. +1 Funny (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm (Score:1)
I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:3, Interesting)
'the development of KDE was part funded by the German government [zdnet.co.uk].'
That might have had something to do with it too.
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:1)
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:2)
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:1)
DE stands for Desktop Environment. A category of products that both KDE and Gnome fit into.
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:1)
Re:I was sure they'd use Gnome... (Score:2)
Re:just a reminder (Score:2, Informative)
Re:just a reminder (Score:2, Informative)
Re:just a reminder (Score:2)
I guess because I only really use Oo, Firefox and the terminal I never really have a lot to do with that stuff. Also I hadn't noticed that the reason why it's called Gaim is because of the "G" thing... who says you can't learn things on
Re:just a reminder (Score:2)
Re:just a reminder (Score:2)
Might that be because the KDE apps are simply memorable? (Comare gphoto -- or whatever it's called -- vs digiKam or the mainstream Gnome CD-R burner vs k3b.) The KDE stuff is very good.
Re:just a reminder (Score:1)
Kool is also "Bold, Smooth, and Fresh"?
Although KDE probably doesn't want to be linked with it.
http://www.kool.com/ [kool.com]
Re:just a reminder (Score:1)
Re:just a reminder (Score:2)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
This is also good since the last few days we've seen some slightly negative press (translate FUD) about Linux.
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:3, Insightful)
OS X is not ready for the desktop (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:1)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:1)
I bet that part of the reason is that Solaris x86 has Gnome support, but doesn't have tight KDE integration. [Note: I'm more of a Gnome user myself.] They also seem to be doing a one-to-one migration of the clients. I was wondering of they might be moving to a more "thin client" model. Anybody have more details?
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:5, Interesting)
And since when is deployment of 12000 desktops not evidence that linux is ready for the desktop? It's on the deskops right?
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:1)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:1)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:1)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
However, if they have to install software, it'll be much easier for them to do it using adept [mornfall.net], rather than going to superdownloads or whatever is it that windows users do when they need new software. Oh, and please, don't say "duh, I just pop in the CD and windows does the rest" because that still doesn't answer where do you get the CD in the first place.
Windows won't be ready for the desktop until you have
Re:Lost desktops (Score:2)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2)
Re:Linux on the desktop (Score:2, Interesting)
This part of story brings tears to my eyes... (Score:5, Funny)
I thought, I'd never live long enough to see the day someone will ever say this... Look away, it's just some dust in my eyes...
Re:This part of story brings tears to my eyes... (Score:4, Informative)
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I realized that sentence could be read in two ways:
optimum support for the hardware we're currently using
optimum support for hardware in mainstream use
Since he's focused on his own project, I would say a conservative opinion is that they happen to have a well supported standard configuration. That's great but not really anything exceptional.
Re:This part of story brings tears to my eyes... (Score:1)
> That's great but not really anything exceptional.
It seems to work well enough for Apple.
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:4, Interesting)
There aren't any real usability problems with the new layout. At least none since they moved the article links.
http://fs.nile.homelinux.net:8000/~john/goofed_up
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Changing homepage preferences [slashdot.org] to "Simple Design" gives me a decent serif font (Times on my setup); perhaps a bit small but I can bump it up in the browser. Some of the graphic elements are a bit off, but that's an acceptable tradeoff.
Verdana is actually an excellent sans screen font; but for body text a serif is much more pleasant, G
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:1)
Too bad it's only available from M$
Ben
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Verdana is best at very small sizes. Georgia is serif, Tahoma is sans, so they're just different beasts. After trying everything from Comic sans to Garamond. I've settled on Georgia as my screen reading font (for print I'm more eclectic, but generally choose a Garamond).
Too bad it's only available from M$ :(
You can get them free, quite legally from Corefonts [sourceforge.net].
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Konqueror. Just use Firefox.
That funny music player. XMMS, hands down.
Kopete. Haven't tried it for years, but when I last looked at it, anything was better.
The man hours that are wasted trying to re-invent the Konqueror wheel could be better put to use doing something else, and contributing little patches to Firefox to integrate it more into KDE.
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
I'd be lost without fish://
Go to KDE Help Center, Contents tab, Kioslaves. I'm sorry, but FF doesn't do that.
--
BMO
PS, Slashdot still sucks ass rendering in Konq. Vendors, Help, Stories, About and Services all jam themselves up in the left hand corner. Sometimes. Sometimes not. This never happened before the "Whole New Look". And no, it's not my KDE setup. Fresh install. Same thing under 3.5.2 and 3.5.3.
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:1)
However, I use the best tool for the job. --> firefox for the http protocol.
It would have been nice if the QGeeko component was maintained and extended though. Being able to embed geeko into konqi would be a major win. (And emulating fiefox Extensions, too...)
Cheers,
Ben
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Yeahbut, that was then and this is now. The _only_ sites I have problems with these days are MS-Only (which are getting fewer and fewer) and Slashdot. The fact that Slashdot rendered fine before the Whole New Look says that Slashdot is doing something wrong compared to what went before, and it's not just me complaining.
I m
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:1)
I wouldn't know about any problems with javascript; I never have it enabled as a general rule. The problem is the fonts. They're butt ugly and way too small (try opting for the simplest/plainest presentation and you'll see it's worse than you think it could possibly be). I've asked Rob to fix it and he said they would. They've got about half the stuff working okay again but the fonts are still shoddy. That and serving the style sheets (what is it, about 30K per page?) with a URL c
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:1)
Same here. Looks perfect in Safari to me.
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Re:speaking of XP-x64 (Score:2)
I'll bite. My Fedora Core 4 x86-64 box works absolutely perfectly for me, and identically to the FC4 i386 box that sits next to it.
More lies, surely? Mark Kretschmann, one of the Amarok leads, recently wrote [kde.org]:
Re:speaking of XP-x64 (Score:2)
He was speaking "all desktops" as in "kde, gnome, enlightenment", etc. IIRC there is no version in planning at all for WinToys
Re:Amarok will be coming to Windows (Score:2)
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
I seen no corruption or slowdown in Konq 3.4.2, on Mandriva 2006.
(Barton 2800+, 1G ram, 440Mx)
Also it hangs opera 9.0 beta 2 (Score:2)
Re:Also it hangs opera 9.0 beta 2 (Score:2)
Re:Also it hangs opera 9.0 beta 2 (Score:2)
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:2)
Re:speaking of KDE (Score:1)
(actually, firefox is completly unusable in comparison on my laptop - not enough ram, le sigh. I remember complaining kde stuff was bloated as hell, back in the day. irony!)
circa 90's linux is ignored (Score:1, Insightful)
cool but not that surprising (Score:5, Informative)
I will be surprised when some country in Asia or America that is not known for its KDE community decides to switch to KDE.
That being said, it's of course great that did it in Germany.
Re:cool but not that surprising (Score:2)
Out of the two X11 'desktops' out there, KDE and Gnome which one is not an absolute pain in the arse to deploy and lock down in an enterprise?
I'd have though KDE's Kiosk mode would be a big factor considering their moving from CDE, along with the fact that custom apps in QT are a breeze compared to GTK.
SuSE vs. x86 Sol (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd thought of installing SuSE using OpenExchange because of the cost factor when I worked at a smaller company but I found I could do just as good using an alternative so I ended up installing CentOS webservers, proxy servers, Solaris 10 for mail and LDAP on a v280, and ended up configuring a nicely equipped intranet for under 5k. I wound up going open source for most tools, e.g. DotProject replaced MS Project server and saved about 4k. SugarCRM replaced SuradoCRM at about 8k. CentOS replaced MS Windows SMB 2003 for about another 4k. I saved the company a lot of money but ended up to my neck in work. Was pretty neat to get things going, and I had originally wanted to use SuSE before they started selling seats for OpenExchange. Its always nice though to see the distros moving up... Right now, I'm back into the telco/communications (VoIP arena to be exact) and I was lucky enough to be in a Linux shop with flexibility to use what we feel gets the job done right... Not what magazines and researchers often sponsored by MS point to as "the perfect solution"
Re:SuSE vs. x86 Sol (Score:2)
novell's products that are called suse linux enterprise server (sles) and novell linux desktop (nld) are "pay -for-support-and-upgrades" products, but you can easily download them for free (i'm not sure about all license details, though - but i don't think there could be anything seriously limiting).
basically those two versions are based on suse linux (for example, sles 10 will be based on suse linux 10.1), similar to fe
Damning with faint praise .. Re:SuSE vs. x86 Sol (Score:1)
I like SuSE I really do but
One thing I take note of is the mention of "licensing costs were cited as key reasons for the decision.". I think there are many here who will take a "it's free!" approach to that statement, and that is not necessarily the case.
Well what was actually said was the primary reasons were increased flexibility, enhanced usability and reduced training and support costs and se
Very strange... (Score:5, Interesting)
I see a couple of things happening though...
1. KDE is not a stable desktop. Yes Yes stop turning red, I mean it is not stable like CDE is stable. This could lead to frustration among 12,000 users that were used to probably the most stable OS (sol 8 is a rock), using an insanely boring and stable desktop (CDE).
2. Now that these people will be able to do all the cool things you can do with a modern unix and KDE, the IT people are going to go crazy
and have to hire more people and work mucho overtime.
Re:Very strange... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Very strange... (Score:2)
Last time KDE crashed/messed up on me? Not in the last few years. Currently KDE 3.5.2 via Gentoo, and it's lovely.
KDE not stable? (Score:2)
And I speak as a former VAX/VMS user. I have managed to crash VMS with a bug in a callback function in a Motif application I wrote, but I have never found a way to crash KDE. And when I say "crash VMS" I mean crash the system in a way that nobody else could log in, they couldn't even get a login prompt in a VT-100 terminal.
OK, I know, you mentioned CDE, not VMS, but VAX/VMS was that other legendary "imp
It's all over (Score:5, Interesting)
"Did you notice you've been using linux all this time?"
"no."
"Well, that's KDE running on SuSE. When did they switch?"
"I don't know. They switched what now? Who's Katie?"
I asked her colleagues in the English department if they knew when the switch took place. No one noticed it. SD loves to have debates about whether *nix is ready to replace windows for the everyday user. Ok, so maybe joe schmo or the proverbial English-major girlfriend (or boyfriend) wouldn't be able to install Ubuntu or SuSE, but if it's there, they can use it. There's a lot of money to be saved on public terminals for general use.
Re:It's all over (Score:2)
Next best thing to do... (Score:3, Insightful)
News from Germany (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I think KDE is evil (Score:2, Informative)
> free doesnot really feel likes a free tool.
You are not forced at all to release your KDE software under GPL. Feel free to purchase a Qt license from Trolltech, and you can release your software under whatever license you want.
Re:I think KDE is evil (Score:1)