Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments
Search

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

What Can Mandriva Linux 2006 Mean for Home Users?

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Mon May 08, 2006 04:32 AM
from the just-get-their-feet-wet dept.
Businesses Mandriva Editorial
sitor writes "What can Mandriva Linux 2006 mean for home users? is an article giving an extensive explanation about the pro's and con's of using a linux distribution such as Mandriva Linux 2006. It was written with people in mind that are in doubt whether linux might be something for them or not. It aims to inform them in a neutral way, understandable to newbies. Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."
+ -
story
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.

What Can Mandriva Linux 2006 Mean for Home Users? 50 Comments More /

 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."

    With all respect to Mandriva, I'd much rather just point them to ubuntu [ubuntu.com]

    (I feel I should make an OS X reference, but I just can't be bothered)
    • I used Mandriva for 5 years, few months ago I moved to Ubuntu and I am not going back. Quality is important to me. I don't wan't to waste time trying to fight the system.
    • And if you need reasons to back that up, just read the 'What could be improved' section on the last page of that article. It talks about show-stopping bugs that are enabled by default if you download the wrong version. It also talks about some of the most common linux features (ability to write to FAT partitions) that are disabled and you have to compile from source to change it.

      They claim they are just trying not to run afoul of USA law, but what they've really done is trash their own distribution. (At
      • A lot of linux distros do stuff like this though... I use fedora (although if I'd have had perfect knowledge at the start I might have chosen Ubuntu) and in that you can't read/write NTFS, you can't play mp3, you can't play comercial dvds... why don't they just say on the site that they are opperating under Russia (or a country with even less regulations about copywrite) law and then have done with it, making a really good, usable out of the box distro
        • A lot of linux distros do stuff like this though... I use fedora (although if I'd have had perfect knowledge at the start I might have chosen Ubuntu) and in that you can't read/write NTFS, you can't play mp3, you can't play comercial dvds... why don't they just say on the site that they are opperating under Russia (or a country with even less regulations about copywrite) law and then have done with it, making a really good, usable out of the box distro

          That would be SimplyMEPIS. Seriously, it's Ubuntu with all the propietary stuff.

          I personally don't care, becaue i don't think it's hard at all to enable MP3s, DVDs, etc. Just a couple checks of EasyUbuntu, or some copy&paste from the Ubuntu wiki and you're all set.
            • Not only should you warn your friends:

              Those games you love to play on Windows? GIve them up.

              Im in quite lucky position since the game i most played in windows was Targetware, which as i noticed runs much better on linux (better fps, lot smoother) It made me really wish more games would be made for linux due to obivious benefits of better memory management (you need less physical memory for similar performance as windows tends to swap too easily). So i want to add in what you say. Very likely, but not n

            • Re:Spare yourself from the headaches (Score:4, Informative)

              by opkool (231966) on Monday May 08 2006, @09:23AM (#15284990) Homepage
              Hi,

              Considering the hoops that I had to go through to make Mandrake do multimedia AND DVDs, your friend might as well be as skilled as 'Mr. decss' Johansen to get video or music playback.

              I am not as skilled as Mr decss Johansen. Nevertheless, I got multimedia AND DVD reporduction very easily.

              One option, is to buy the boxed version, which comes with support for all the proprietary stuff. I don't know if you know, but "Mandriva Free" only includes free (as in Freedom) software by design. This option (boxed version) works great for people not that expert in Linux.

              Another option is to do what I did:

              I went to Easy URPMI website [zarb.org], selected the PLF repositories, configured follogwing the instructions on that page (copy&paste), launched the GUI install program, searched for "codecs" and all the other files that had "mp3", "ogg", "dvd" , etc in the name , installed them all, and presto!:

              * multimedia works like a charm: mp3, ogg, avi, mpeg... (using amaroK and gmplayer), even web-embeded content.
              * I view my legal (read, protected) DVDs easily, with gmplayer or kaffeine or...

              It is very easy, really. Even I can do it :)

              I used the info found in this link [easylinux.info]. I found this link at "Mandriva Linux" entry on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]. All is explained very well.

              Peace!
        • Because they don't live in Russia and they have to obey the laws where they live, unfortunately.

          A better solution would be to have the package/installer maintainer live in Sweden. Make it his responsibility that things got packaged like that and then stop worrying about it.

          I don't so much disagree with abiding by their local laws (since they usually are mine, too) but you can't claim to have a home user solution and not have it do basic things like write FAT and play DVDs out of the box. Those are basic f
        • The problem is that Fedora is distributed from the USA, which allows stupid things to be patented. In Europe and Britain, the MP3 patents are null and void; and it is quite OK to distribute MP3 playback and recording software in those places. {As an aside, if they ever do allow software patents in the UK or Europe, all the illegally-granted patents won't automatically come into force: patent holders will have to reapply for them, and may not get them on the grounds of prior art or obviety.} Likewise in Europe and Britain, if you own a DVD then you are legally entitled to do whatever is necessary to watch it on your own equipment.
            • Some do. We seem to be a nation of masochists, hanging onto ridiculous things as though they mattered. I personally love Europe -- I'm just practising for when we get kicked out of the EU. But this is spiralling further away from topic.
      • "It also talks about some of the most common linux features (ability to write to FAT partitions) that are disabled and you have to compile from source to change it."

        FUD.

        Where does it say you have to recompile anything to write to FAT? Anywhere near the bit that says "TIP: You can change this rather easy in the MCC in the partition management module. You go into expert mode (watch it!) and select umask=0."?
        • My appologies. I apparently skipped over his tip there. At any rate, why is that disabled by default? That doesn't sound like an 'expert' user thing to me.

          • Re:With all respect to Mandriva.... (Score:4, Informative)

            by Proud like a god (656928) on Monday May 08 2006, @07:35AM (#15284424) Homepage
            As stated below, it's a feature of the selected security level. Access to non-linux filesystems is restricted to root in Standard security mode (there's 1 lower level and 2 higher levels iirc).

            The change in MCC isn't even a text edit, there's a check box with the label umask=0 and a description "Give write access to ordinary users". It doesn't get easier than that.
          • I think it's more of a security thing rather than a patent thing. This happens in Mandriva when you set your security level too high (although it warns you). Basically since there is no permission system in FAT, it's very insecure from a linux point of view to have a directory that's readable,writeable, and executable by everyone. That's why writing is disabled.
          • the problem is theres no usable security data on any filesystem other than one thats designed to fit with your operating systems security model. So granting access to users is something that must be decided by the OS at mount time.

            windows takes the approach of "fat volumes are wide open to all users (a pretty major security hole really)" linux takes the opposite approach of "you can't write a non-native filesystem unless root lets you".

      • "It also talks about some of the most common linux features (ability to write to FAT partitions) that are disabled and you have to compile from source to change it."

        funny, editing a configuration file is compiling from source? since when?
        I thought it was using a text editor to alter the contents of a file..like opening a word .doc file in ms word and changing the contents.

        actually, it's easier than that, change the default security setting to the next lower level and the access is granted..this can be done
      • Compile from source to write to FAT partitions?

        Since fucking when?

        I do that DAILY! ALL my Windows partitions are FAT32! I save images, Web pages...

        What the fuck is this on about?

        And I haven't seen one show-stopping bug in Mandriva 2006 (other than their braindead menu editor, which sucks.) The only one they mention in the article is is Kat, which I haven't tried yet.

        Oh, I see what they're talking about now - they're bitching that the /etc/fstab is set up for read-only on vfat by default.

        Oh, big fucking deal
    • For me ubuntu has one big problem, it only comes on one disk. I live in South Africa and most people still use dial-up, so I try to avoid downloading packages. When you get mandriva you get 5 discs, or 1 dvd full of software. Granted there is a dvd for ubuntu, but most I know have only ever used the single ubuntu disc. When I introduce them to mandriva they normally thank me cause mp3 and videos work aswell. (Note: I don't use mandriva, but it was the first distro i used)

  • What can it mean? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It means no driver support, half-finished software, archaic text mode apps from the 1970s, a bloated buggy 2.6 kernel, definitely no games, and the idea that you're supporting a filthy French company.

  • Nice idea but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wirah (707347) on Monday May 08 2006, @04:57AM (#15284019) Homepage Journal
    That article is rubbish. Ubuntu is obviously the choice for first-time switchers, and is the most polished and accessible distribution for newbies and gurus alike. The article doesn't seem to have much of a grasp of the concepts of Linux, or say who would switch and why, and what they'd encounter. And as for paying for mandriva so that you can play DVDs. What the hell? Who wrote this crap? Sorry, nice idea, but better articles have been written before. I think a windows->linux wiki written by past, present, and future switchers would be a much more interesting idea.

  • next time (Score:4, Funny)

    by illtron (722358) on Monday May 08 2006, @04:58AM (#15284022) Homepage Journal
    Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article."

    Oh, if only I could get back the time I've spent explaining Linux to neighbors and grandmothers! I've thrown away my life! I'll never get those preciouos 43 seconds back!

  • Mandriva 2006 at home (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Nuffsaid (855987) on Monday May 08 2006, @05:11AM (#15284035)
    Linux Mandriva 2006 _is_ my home PC main operating system, i.e. the one that gets booted by default. That said, if this is one of the supposedly most "desktop friendly" distributions, i can't be very optimistic. For starters, 3D acceleration does not work. It's an ATI card, ok, but you can't dismiss what nearly half PCs use just by saying "buy supported hardware". You can blame ATI more than Mandriva, but it's a fact that the same hardware under SuSe worked with ATI drivers (other minor things didn't work, like booting reliably and not freezing). Then there's the myriad of little (and not so little) annoyances, like the KDE Control Center becoming suddenly empty. What would you say about Windows if the Control Panel icons randomly disappeared for no apparent reason? And how do you explain to your non-geek (but not illiterate) relatives that in order to download and install software it's not sufficient for the site to say "RPM - for Linux", but it must be pulled "automagically" from some repository holding just the right kind of RPM for the specific Mandriva release? IMHO, these are the kind of things that keep lots of people from using Linux on their home PCs, where things either "just work" or they are not worth fiddling in order to make them work.
    • Let's make one thing clear: Installing software from a single repository using a single UI is both simpler and more secure than doing it with a hundred different UIs from a hundred different web sites. The windows way of installing software is the opposite of "It Just Works" -- people are just used to going through all the hoops that particular installer requires (which is fine, they can keep using what works for them).

      Explaining the concept of package management to intelligent non-geeks is not difficul

    • Re:Mandriva 2006 at home (Score:5, Funny)

      by iogan (943605) on Monday May 08 2006, @05:35AM (#15284073) Homepage
      "What would you say about Windows if the Control Panel icons randomly disappeared for no apparent reason?"

      I'd say "NOT AGAIN!!"
    • [...]these are the kind of things that keep lots of people from using Linux on their home PCs, where things either "just work" or they are not worth fiddling in order to make them work

      I am not very interested in playing around with computers or operating systems. I think the computer is a wonderful invention just as I think the car is a wonderful invention. I use a computer and I use a car but I am not really interested in how they work or why things doesn't work, I just want them to work, like you said
        • Why, pray tell, would you judge the Linux desktop using a fringe Linux distro like Ubuntu? That's like me saying Windows sucks because I use the Windows XP Starter Edition [microsoft.com] and it won't let me run more than 3 programs at once, therefore, Windows is shite. Use a distro that's not closed to binary modules or licensing like SuSE Linux or (ugh) Lindows and most of that nonsense you mentioned becomes moot. Anyhow, you can buy a closed driver from Paragone to r/w NTFS partitions from Linux, just like you have to b
          • you can use captive-ntfs on linux for free, though you are supposed to have a license to Windows if you want to use the ntfs.sys... however, it is very spiffy, it lets you read and write and it seems to be quite reliable.
    • Mandriva isn't the easiest Linux distro, anymore at least. Other distros like Ubuntu and SimplyMEPIS and PCLinuxOS have surpassed it in that regard. Mepis comes with all the proprietary stuff, and Ubuntu just requires a simple download of EasyUbuntu (no installing, just extracting) to get all the proprietary stuff going.

      Using a package manager connected to repositories is certainly different from Windows, but it's not harder. If anything, it's easier, because you don't have to hunt around the internet
      • Yes it does.

        It is called urpmi [mandriva.com].

        For Debian users:

        urpmi is apt
        rpm is dkpg
        rpmdrake is synaptic

        Urpmi comes both in command-line [utexas.edu] and GUI front-end [google.com]. Urpmi also comes with a "WindowsUpdate-like" tool called MandrivaUpdate [mandrakehelp.com].

        There is even an online urpmi configurator tool [zarb.org], where you can even select the program sources "forbidden" in the USA, as they contain pre-packaged programs and modules that will allow you to watch DVDs, have 3D acceleration with ATI and nVidia cards, and a whole bunch of programs that its legali

  • What Can Grammar Lessons Mean for /. Users? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 08 2006, @05:17AM (#15284052)
    Next time you have someone asking you questions about Linux not knowing whether they should try, you can just direct them to this article.

    My eyes! My eyes are bleeding!
  • Taking a look at the screenshots on page 4 [coulier.org], i noticed that some apps (KDE?) are in Dutch, while others (Mandriva-specific?) are in English. Looks like i18n isn't finished yet, unless they mixed shots from different language installations (which i very much doubt).

    Incidentally, the reason I left Mandrake 4 years ago for Fedora (core 2, i think) was that Fedora had better Japanese language support. I also didn't like MenuDrake.. too inflexible, iirc.

  • Too early for Monday (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tacocat (527354) <tallison1@@@twmi...rr...com> on Monday May 08 2006, @05:30AM (#15284065)

    Oh God!! I was't really prepared to wade through a flame war over distros this morning. What a bunch of freaking zealots! You distro fanatics make me want to puke.

    I started on Slackware because someone said it's a good distro to use if you want to learn what's really going on. I stand by that statement today. If you want to learn Linux then don't use some mamby-pamby cute distro. If you want to be a user of Linux then use whatever most resembles whatever floats your boat. Some might argue it's best to use something that looks most like Windows. Some wouldn't.

    I ran into an intersting discussion in the real world this week that I thought pertinent. The conclusion goes as follows:

    • If you want a great GUI, use Mac OS-X as there is nothing even close to it.
    • If you want a simplified server then you can choose from RedHat, SuSE, or a dozen others.
    • If you want a highly customizable server then you can choose from the less pretty distros of Debian, Slackware, Gentoo where changes are tightly controlled and lightly managed by the package manager.
    • If you want to have a workstation (any OS) that is both a simplified interface and ultimately customizable then you won't find it.

    From a practical point: most *nix servers that are not Linux based (HP/Sun/IBM) have little in the way of cute interface management tools. On these heavy lift platforms the configuration tool of choice seems to be vi more than a GUI. I don't think anyone has been able to surpass this customization and I'm not certain that it is a requirement that they do. If you don't understand the workings of the applications then a GUI interface will only permit you to do damage.

    It's very likely that my proposed list of distro's will create a lot of controversy, but first consider where you sit on the spectrum between ultimate customization of the machine and "I'll take what I get" user.

    • It's very likely that my proposed list of distro's will create a lot of controversy, but first consider where you sit on the spectrum between ultimate customization of the machine and "I'll take what I get" user.

      Unfortunately, "I'll take what I can get" is the mantra for Linux on the desktop.

      I use Linux almost exclusively on the desktop (I clock about 3 hours/6 months on my Win2k partition), but there's a good number of things I have had to learn to do without.

      Before you flame, consider these common (or inc
  • I used to use "Mandrake" back in the day when Wal*Mart sold it. I was about 15 at the time (23 now) and loved it other than the fact that I had a winmodem and it didnt work for me to connect to the internet. I toggled back and forth with it as each release came out thinking each new release was a step in the right direction.

    Then someone showed me ubuntu and I havent looked back, it does everything I've always wanted from a distro right out of the box with no tweaking necessary, at least in my case. I may

  • How long will Mandriva be around? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FishandChips (695645) on Monday May 08 2006, @06:01AM (#15284131) Journal
    No disrespect to Mandriva, but their "model" doesn't sound that appealing. OpenSuSE will give you pretty well the same for free (fast downloads, too) while even the official version of SuSE with extra packages on the DVD is quite a lot cheaper than the Mandriva offerings. I hate to say it, but if I had to choose a distro that was losing out as the Linux competition hots up, it is Mandriva. That doesn't mean it isn't extremely good, just that its future looks dubious to say the least. The name changes, their financial situation and news of trouble at the top doesn't help either.

  • I got a better idea (Score:3, Informative)

    by N8F8 (4562) on Monday May 08 2006, @06:10AM (#15284152)
    http://www.phildev.net/linux/apt-quickref.html [phildev.net] Below is a quick reference to cover some of the most commonly needed apt uses.

    Download and install package:
    apt-get install package

    Update apt's list of available packages:
    apt-get update

    Upgrade all installed packages with upgrades available:
    apt-get upgrade

    Upgrade to new distro, or in general upgrade anything available for update including core system packages:
    apt-get dist-upgrade

    Uninstall package:
    apt-get remove package

    Uninstall package, and its config files, and don't leave it in the database as 'uninstalled':
    apt-get --purge remove package

    Search for a package like pattern:
    apt-cache search pattern

    Get information on installed package:
    dpkg -s package

    Find which installed package file belongs to:
    dpkg -S inetd.conf

    List which files are in package:
    apt-file list package

    Find out what packages provide file:
    apt-file search file

    Run a command (such as ./configure or make) and have all necessary packages installed as needed:
    auto-apt run command

    Unless specified, the package in reference doesn't have to be already installed for these to work... but the database needs to be updated. You can update the appropriate database via:
    apt-get update
    or
    auto-apt update
    or
    apt-file update
  • I'd much rather a good solid Slackware-style distribution (preferably my own, of course, but there are other good ones, too). From what I've seen, they tend to be a hell of a lot faster, easier to configure – imagine a world without those horrible RPM's! – and probably a bit more secure as well. So far I've got everyone in my family hooked on my distribution, which is saying quite a bit actually since most of them were fighting tooth and nail just to keep Internet Explorer for a while...

  • On my new centrino notebook, everything worked. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gukin (14148) on Monday May 08 2006, @07:33AM (#15284415)
    Six months ago, I bought a Toshbia tecra S2 (it had a wicked 6600 Go video card!) and before I even booted M$, I installed Mandriva 2006 December edition (I'm a club member) Here's my experiences:

    1. Boot it up, resize the NTFS partition; windows still booted afterwards.
    2. Install the usual stuff.
    3. Observe that the wireless NIC, the wired NIC, the video, the sound AND the modem all work under mdv2006.

    No hassles, no "recompiling the kernel", no endless searches on line; install and go.

    Yeah I can just boot-n-go with M$ but I happen to like Linux, I don't like windows.

    If someone had the same laptop with a dead HDD, they didn't have recovery media and they didn't want to spend $150 on a new OS, mandriva would at least get their laptop functional.

  • The article is a bit like Linux (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tverbeek (457094) on Monday May 08 2006, @08:11AM (#15284617) Homepage
    (I realize this comment is off-topic from all the pubescent distro advocacy, but...)

    This article is actually a good introduction to Linux, though perhaps not in the way it was intended. As a competent, grammatically correct translation from another language into English, but by someone who is not a native speaker of English, it has a certain awkwardness to it, requires that the reader take a little more time to figure out what it's saying, and leaves the reader with a feeling of discomfort about just how well-polished this Linux stuff really is. If someone is put off by that, then they probably shouldn't try Linux; if they're not, it might be a good move for them.

    Understand: I'm not criticising the translator; his English is far better than any second language of mine, and better than a lot of translated-into-English I've read over the years. Just an observation.

  • As Elaine Benes once said "Absolootely nuttin".

    • Start at the top, not the bottom (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Solo-Malee (618168) on Monday May 08 2006, @05:49AM (#15284099)
      I generally agree that Microsoft has the monopoly and consequently it is very hard for Linux to mean anything to the home user but...

      Lose the Microsoft Office Applications off of the Windows platform and the home user suddenly has less and less reason to be sitting on a MS platform. The Opensource movement can make a serious impression on the Microsoft world by pushing hard the alternatives like OpenOffice.org that the home user can really make productive use of.

      Make a couple of apparently insignificant 'baby steps' away from the Microsoft applications and all of a sudden, you begin to wonder why you need Windows. I made the move to OpenOffice back in November 05 and I am now beginning to see the light and the possibility that within the next few months I may not need Windows at all. Without MS Office, there is almost no need to have Windows!

      There are only two things that need to be fixed in the Linux world in my view for even greater acceptance:
      * Vendor support for Printer drivers (eg: Canon)
      * Mainstream publisher support from all the top games vendors.
        • The first "open a shell" in there is a showstopper. End of installation. So, you say you don't need tutorials, you just pop the installation CD in and the graphical installer does it all.

          Exactly you don't need to "open a shell" to install Mandrake.

          Well, go to a home banking website and witness what being in a fringe group means when they reject your not-so-IE browser (this is improving, admittedly)

          Yes it is getting better. Here in Canada most home banking sites will work with Firefox on Linux. The Can

    • I largely agree. Linux seems to resemble Windows more and more with every release, and not all of us think that's a good thing.

      That said, my mother is currently using a ten year-old machine with a malware-ridden copy of Windows 95, and I've offered to upgrade everything. All she does with it is email, web, a few games (like solitaire), and occasionally edit a church newsletter with an ancient version of MS Word.

      So she's visiting the other day, and I show her what I can do with Linux (I run Fedora with Gnome

    • Re:Yeah (Score:3, Insightful)

      by s31523 (926314)
      I can't blame just Mandriva, Wireless networking moved too fast for the Linux Distros and all of them seem to be "klunky" when it comes to Wi-Fi, but things are catching up.
      Try downloading the latest Network Manager [gnome.org], which seems to be a lot better (I am gonna try this tonight)
    • what's the #1 killer reason to try Linux out

      Right now, for a casual computer user there isn't any. For me, the difference between Windows and Linux is in the shape of the "effort vs. results" curve. If you aren't a heavy computer user, Windows will give you results at a lower effort. But if you really need or want to use computers more, on a daily basis, then it pays to learn Linux. It may be something you don't realize at first, but the time you spend now and then in Windows trying to download drivers, an

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2009 Geeknet, Inc.