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Linspire CEO Considers CNR for Ubuntu

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri Mar 03, 2006 03:51 AM
from the open-minds dept.
Linux Business Software Linux
bored2k writes "Kevin Carmony, President and CEO of Linspire, Inc., is using the Ubuntu Forums to ask for input and explain why he thinks a popular and heavily focused on usability distribution like Ubuntu needs Linspire's $20 per-year CNR service. From what he says, both him and Mark Shuttleworth (Canonical/Ubuntu's founder) like the idea. Would CNR honestly help Ubuntu grow, or is it just a scheme to cash in on it's success?"
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Linspire CEO Considers CNR for Ubuntu 50 Comments More /

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  • Free (Score:3, Insightful)

    by omeg (907329) on Friday March 03 2006, @03:54AM (#14841348)
    Nonsense. Ubuntu is free, and will always be free. Their principles state that there can't be "extra" versions that cost money in addition to the free version, too. CNR is nice, but it's not Ubuntu.

    • Re:Free (Score:4, Informative)

      by Raphael (18701) <quinet@gamCOLAers.org minus caffeine> on Friday March 03 2006, @04:05AM (#14841371) Homepage Journal
      Their principles state that there can't be "extra" versions that cost money in addition to the free version, too.

      This does not prevent another company (Linspire) from offering optional services on top of Ubuntu. Just like any company can offer free or non-free software that can be installed on top of Ubuntu or on top of any other Linux distribution or even any other operating system.

      • Re:Free (Score:4, Interesting)

        by dhart (1261) * <dhart@sftowe[ ]om ['r.c' in gap]> on Friday March 03 2006, @05:24AM (#14841538)
        This also does not prevent another company like Impi Linux [impi.org.za] (65% owned by Mark Shuttleworth) from offering optional services on top of Ubuntu.

        Impi has a deal with CodeWeavers (the commercial contributors to WINE) and other commercial Linux players; I'd be surprised if they're not also talking to Linspire.

        It's an interesting dance between the FREE and commercial software worlds!
    • Ubuntu will always be free, but it's an operating system. There's no way they could ever hope to package every single application for it in a repository. I'd much rather see them embrace something like AutoPackage rather than the CNR store though.

  • "nice" "summary" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Onan (25162) on Friday March 03 2006, @04:03AM (#14841366)
    And would it have killed you to throw in some mention of what the hell a "CNR" is?

    • Re:"nice" "summary" (Score:5, Informative)

      by caffeination (947825) on Friday March 03 2006, @04:11AM (#14841382)

      I've been reading Mr.Linspire's post about it. It's Click N Run software installation. It's like a frontend to apt/emerge/pacman, but more polished at both ends. Because it already has the billing system, and because Linspire isn't tied to purely free software, it can do things like proprietary game installations too.

      It has an extensive software repository too: it would provide *all* an average user would need, which is in fact more than any other package system can say (because of the non-free part).

      Unfortunately, its advantages are *all* in its non-free nature (though I'd install it in a flash if it became fast as well as fluffy).

      • its advantages are *all* in its non-free nature

        I agree, If another distro like Ubuntu should adopt this they shall only take the non-free parts of it. It would be nice to be able to pay say $40 to download and install a new game or program into /opt, of course with no DRM. I do not however wantsthis in my standard installation and it should be kept VERY separate as an addon.

        I don't no why they need distro support, Linspire could just have an installable .deb at their site for people to download to get acces

      • *all* an average user would need (Score:5, Insightful)

        by dpilot (134227) on Friday March 03 2006, @07:55AM (#14841831) Homepage Journal
        I have mixed feelings about something like CNR, and perhaps it's because I don't fully understand it.

        My impression is that it's like one-click shopping for sofware. Find software on a web browser, push a button, it gets installed, and you get billed. I guess that's ok, for someone who feels a little scared to type "emerge doom3". But that's not what I'd really like to get out of something like CNR.

        First off, I like the idea of a subscription service. In these days of security issues, it's downright stupid to adopt a sales-without-service model for computers. Any computer which will be connected to a network needs some form of regular service plan. My mom's system runs "emerge sync" weekly, "glsa-check" nightly, and emails the results to me. Even if glsa-check is only tied into the portage database, and thus only does something new weekly, at least the nightly emails will nag me into taking care of it. When there's a security issue, I ssh in and fix it. When I visit, I bring her system fully up to date. That's a "policy."

        I'd like to see some sort of update/security policy out of a service like CNR. In particular, something like emerge is very good about upgrading packages and identifying config files that may require updating. But it doesn't update them, it just tells you that it needs to be done. IMHO, THIS is where the real effort needs to be in a subscription service, in tweaking configuration files after update, yet not breaking the system.
    • it's a typo. he meant to say DNR, about linspire.
      [DNR == Do Not Resuscitate] :)
    • CNR stands for "Communication and Networking Riser", an interface standard developed by Intel that mostly flopped.

      Link 1 [webopedia.com]

      Link 2 [interfacebus.com]

      Oh wait, is that not the TLA (three-letter acronym) that the submitter intended? Should have specified then, instead of assuming that everyone know what the hell "Click-n-Run" is.
  • No! You will never stop me from "compiling linux tar file"! (Google "Lindows Rock")

  • New to Ubuntu (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jgoemat (565882) on Friday March 03 2006, @04:16AM (#14841394)
    I wouldn't mind something like CNR (click-n-run) being available. I'd probably shell out the $20 a year also. I like Ubuntu a lot, but it took me about 2 hours the first night to be able to play and rip MP3 files. I don't want to install the newest JDK from SUN either because I don't really know how or if it would interfere with Ubuntu. I tried installing the new Firefox 1.5.0.1 over 5.10's default 1.0.7 and hosed it pretty good, I couldn't install or remove firefox then. I was finally able to get it working by doing an uninstall and then manually removing the /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox directory, then doing an install again. Now I just run 1.5 from a separate directory. It would be worth $20 just to save me an hour of messing around and it would already have saved 4-5...

    What I want to know is why Sun doesn't get together with the Ubuntu team to create a package for the new JDK 1.5. They have a binary installer for Linux, why not have a '.deb' file for Ubuntu? It's free, you just have to click-through Sun's license to get it...

    • Re:New to Ubuntu (Score:4, Informative)

      by chicagotypewriter (933271) on Friday March 03 2006, @04:22AM (#14841413)
      I used Ubuntu for a few weeks and installed JDK right off of the java.sun.com site. The directions are plain as day on there, and are pretty easy to follow: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/install-linux.html [sun.com]. It did not mess anything up either, worked just fine from the command line and from within Eclipse.

    • Re:New to Ubuntu (Score:5, Informative)

      by jbrader (697703) <jbrader@gmail.com> on Friday March 03 2006, @04:36AM (#14841441)
      For things like the newest firefox and JDK. As well as some handy non-free stuff you need Automatix. It's easy to install and will let you choose several non-.deb apps from a simple list. Just search the Ubuntu forums for mor info.
    • > I wouldn't mind something like CNR (click-n-run) being available.

      I'm sure click-n-run works for you, but the notion of using a free (and Free) Operating System and then paying $20 a year to _install software_ sounds hilarious to me.
      • Well for me it's not so much about using a free (or even Free) operating system, but about using a good one. I like a lot of things about Linux and Ubuntu that don't have to do with it being Free or having no cost. However, I would like an easier experience getting things to just work such as DVD, MPEG, and MP3 playing.
    • tried installing the new Firefox 1.5.0.1 over 5.10's default 1.0.7 and hosed it pretty good, I couldn't install or remove firefox then.

      What's so hard about
      # cd /usr/local
      # wget (mirror-of-your-choices)/firefox-1.5.0.tar.gz
      # tar xzvf firefox-1.5.0.tar.gz

      and 30 seconds of clicking to add it to the Gnome/KDE menu?
      • Others were right, I did try to install over the old Firefox, which wasn't smart. I didn't know why not though, in Windows I just installed the higher version over the old one. Now is it ok to untar a new version over 1.5.0 since I didn't use apt-get to install it?

        • Ok, that's right. But parent misses the point. If you use a packet system, then you don't mess with it manually. That's what /usr/local is for, and it's quite obvious that you will break things if you bypass the package manager.
    • "I like Ubuntu a lot, but it took me about 2 hours the first night to be able to play and rip MP3 files."

      Have you looked at Easy Ubuntu?

      http://easyubuntu.freecontrib.org/ [freecontrib.org]

  • Not bad at all. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by miffo.swe (547642) <daniel@nOSPAm.solle.se> on Friday March 03 2006, @04:25AM (#14841420) Homepage Journal
    There are som things open source just cant supply legally. MP3, WMA, and some other media formats are amongst those. To be able to get those from CNR would be wonderful. CNR can license those things in another way than an open source dist can. It would be a nice complement and make it easier for the users.
    • There are som things open source just cant supply legally. MP3, WMA, and some other media formats are amongst those. To be able to get those from CNR would be wonderful. CNR can license those things in another way than an open source dist can. It would be a nice complement and make it easier for the users.

      And they do this already for Linspire users. If you purchased a subscription to CNR, then a legally-licensed DVD-CSS plugin to Xine is $5. I believe MP3 comes free with a purchased Linspire account. The
      • The joy of software patents. MP3 is a patented format. Ubuntu, SuSE and Fedora Core respect this. Slackware and Arch evidently do not.
        • Ubuntu breezy: xmms (from main), includes libmpg123 for mp3 playback

          mpg321 & lame (mp3 encoder) are available from universe

          Doesn't look like Ubuntu is particularly worried by the mp3 patents

          This is probably partly because Debian has never been particularly worried by the mp3 patents - see the (many) discussions on the issues in debian-legal [debian.org] for example.

          • I believe the rationale for removing MP3 support "by default" from FC (and numerous other distributions) is that the MP3 patents are free for non-profit use. i.e. if you give your software away for free, no patent royalties apply (at least for players.)

            But you say these OSes are free? Not quite, nothing in the GPL (or most other FOSS licenses) prevents you from selling something which includes the software. Take a look at cheapbytes.com, or any other company that sells pre-burned Linux distros on CDs. F

      • Re:Not bad at all. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by miffo.swe (547642) <daniel@nOSPAm.solle.se> on Friday March 03 2006, @05:39AM (#14841562) Homepage Journal
        "Why can the less commercial distros get away with such treasonous blasphemy in this post 9/11 world?"

        Because they can be subject to legal action at any time if they include support for mp3, wma and whatnot. A hobby distro maker might take the chance but RedHat management would be liable for suits from its shareholders if they do something illegal on purpouse.

        Software patens suck but until they are gone we have to live with them. CNR makes that pretty easy for the end user.
      • As I understand it most of the less commercial distros get away with it by the amazing legal loophole of being based in teh EU, where software patents are illegal.

        What a headache the global village causes for honest lawyers trying to figure out who they can sue. :)

        (part of it may also well be that no one is going to make money by suing slackware)

  • Good idea (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Guspaz (556486) on Friday March 03 2006, @04:26AM (#14841421) Homepage
    apt-get is darned easy to use, but there are many things available through CNR that aren't in the apt repositories. It is certainly a nice supplement.

    Look at it this way; it is optional. If you don't want it, you are in exactly the same situation as before. If you do want it, you get something extra. It is a win-win situation; you either ignore it, or benefit from it.

  • why can't it be both? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Xtifr (1323) on Friday March 03 2006, @04:29AM (#14841425) Homepage
    > "Would CNR honestly help Ubuntu grow, or is it just a scheme to cash in on it's success?"

    Why can't it be both? Sheesh, you guys are so narrow minded! :)

    I have zero personal interest in this, even though I like Ubuntu, but I can imagine many people who might find it useful.

    One thing that I would be interested to see is if they can make CNR work (for its target audience) without Linspire's terrible always-run-as-root misfeature.
    • One thing that I would be interested to see is if they can make CNR work (for its target audience) without Linspire's terrible always-run-as-root misfeature.
      It would require the user to enter their password (for sudo) when it's run. That's pretty much as any other admin tool.
  • Commercial user support services, like Linspire's Click and Run service, and non-freely redistributable code, such as proprietary software and plugins, should not and in most cases cannot be included on Ubuntu's CD/DVD distributions.

    However, there is no reason why Ubuntu could not host Digitally Signed Shell Scripts ( DSSS ) on their website, and by default, include a MIME setting so that web-browsers will pass the script along to a plugin that checks that it has been signed by Ubuntu before executing the shell script. The script would then perform the one click download and install of the required software. The advantage of this is that the DSSS could be linked to by any Ubuntu website, FAQ , help, page etc.

    Two precondition:
    1) Ubuntu should not preselect any one service over another, but include scripts to install competeing services.
    2) Any Ubuntu "affiliated service" that wants a Ubuntu DSSS would be required to sign an agreement to not use it to install any badware [stopbadware.org].

  • I'll pay for convenient, licensed software (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    A quick and easy way to get licensed software (for a fee of course) without having to spend hours looking for unofficial versions. I'd go for it, if the price is right.

  • $20 per year per what? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by advocate_one (662832) on Friday March 03 2006, @08:19AM (#14841923)
    Computer, User or household...

    I have six Ubuntu boxes at home, would I be expected to pay $120 per year or would I be able to get away with just the one CNR subscription for the household?
    • I think you would be better off just using apt-get. I think CRN is mainly to make updating your computer simple. If you have 6 computers, chances are apt-get isn't going to be that hard for you to use or even script updates. Now, if someone not so computer literate manages their own, then you may want to give them CRN.
      • Apt-get is all very well, but C'n'R gives you the ability to get your hands on legal dvd playback as well as legal win32 codecs (MS did a deal with LinSpire as part of the settlement), not to mention several other things which you can't legally install in certain countries using apt-get.

    • Re:$20 per year per what? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Bruha (412869) on Friday March 03 2006, @12:07PM (#14843328) Journal
      No that one 20 dollar cost would cover every computer you use.

  • Hrmmmm (Score:5, Informative)

    by brunes69 (86786) <slashdot.keirstead@org> on Friday March 03 2006, @08:48AM (#14842036) Homepage

    CNR for $20 / year for outdated software.

    Or I can use Klik [atekon.de] for free, which does the same thing, is constantly up to date, and is guarenteed to never interfere with my system since all the packages are installed in theor own chroot directories.

    Why doesn't Ubunto adopt Klik? Is it just not as well known?

    • Ubuntu can use Klik. Most Debian based distros can. There's nothing else for Ubuntu to do.

      Linky [ubuntuforums.org].

      But there's still the problem of obtaining completely legal DVD playing and such.
  • Obviously CNR is a wonderful feature, as is clearly evidenced by all the dozen or so people still using Linspire.

    I kinda get the feeling that I'm the only one who's noticed a problem with the man who stands to gain direct financial benefit from the inclusion of subscription fee-based technology in another distro being it's primary proponent. If instead, Linspire were to mount a covert campaign to infiltrate shills into the Ubuntu forums, people would onto them like white on rice.
    • If a program called "Skype" can take off, or people will buy cars that have all kinds of entirely meaningless names, what can't Ubuntu be successful?
    • Well, that might be beacuse IT IS an African distro and a word in Zulu. As far as i know it was meant as its main goal to be a distro for Africans and the general popularity is just an added bonus. OSS tends to have silly sounding names in general. Ubuntu, other than sounding silly to someone unfamiliar with it also expresses the ideology behind the foundation.

      • Ubuntu...It extended meaning is that "a human is a human being through other human beings". But even that is too simple. It also contains respect and concern for one's family, one's neighbors and is fundemantally inclusive, in strong contrast to the fundemantal exclusive of the western culture.

        Oh... so it means "Mensch" [wikipedia.org]. And yes, you see, we do have this concept in traditional western culture. You confuse the coarsening of post-modern culture with western culture, but there are still some 'traditional'

        • Oh... so it means "Mensch". And yes, you see, we do have this concept in traditional western culture.

          What part of Yiddish do you consider "Western Culture" ? While there's been a minority of Jiddish-speaking people in "the West" for quite a few centuries, it's still a minority.

          Or did you mean that while there's a Yiddish word that is similar in meaning to Ubuntu, and you couldn't find a word in English or another big European language, that doesn't matter, because Jesus talked a lot about how nice it'd be

      • No, I really didn't know. I just thought it sounded African. It's kind of funny then that I was pretty close to the mark, I think.

    • What would be at best to do then, is to port concepts of CNR into Synaptic or other such interface. What Carmony doesnt understand is , how can you do this without charging money, which is his ultimate aim. This is not whole disimiliar to Apple's woes about releasing some of its code to the Open source community (rightly so, OSx86 popped up pretty quick). If Carmony released CNR code to the FOSS community, Id back him. But not at a charge to his benefit. KingBahamut, Ubuntuforums.org

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