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Shuttleworth's Commitment to Kubuntu and KDE
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Sun Nov 06, 2005 09:53 AM
from the neck-deep-in-gui-software dept.
from the neck-deep-in-gui-software dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Ubuntu Below Zero conference is in full momentum this week and Kubuntu has been prominent throughout. In his opening remarks at the start of the conference Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth announced that he was now using Kubuntu on his desktop machine and said he wanted Kubuntu to move to a first class distribution within the Ubuntu community. Free CDs for Kubuntu through shipit should be available for the next release if the planned Live CD Installer removes the need for a separate install CD."
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Technology: KDE's Version Timing Drops It In Ubuntu Support Priority 187 comments
News.com is reporting that the next version of Ubuntu will see KDE unsupported, but only for the time being. Because of the dramatic changeover from KDE 3.5 to 4.0, Ubuntu sponsor Canonical is unwilling to initially support the popular Linux GUI. Gnome will still be supported, and the company expects to return support to kubuntu soon. "Developer interest is focused on KDE 4.0, but it's not mature enough yet to use in the next KDE-based variation of Ubuntu, called Kubuntu, Scott James Remnant, leader of the Ubuntu Desktop team, said in an explanation to a Kubuntu mailing list. But most Kubuntu developers adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5."
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The only major KDE distro? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:3, Insightful)
Must-have KDE apps (Score:5, Interesting)
Mandrake, Kubuntu/Mark Shuttleworth, Trolltech seem realize the value of KDE's superior architecture, on which many must-have KDE apps have been built. These apps don't have any gnome equivalents that are nearly as useful and feature-rich:
AmaroK music player [kde.org] -- Steve Jobs' nightmare, the single greatest threat to Itunes on the Free Software platform.
K3b [k3b.org] -- Best CD and DVD authoring program with intuitive wizards, on the fly transcoding between WAV, MP3, FLAC, and Ogg Vorbis, normalization of volume levels, CDDB, DVD Ripping and DivX/XviD encoding, Save/load projects, automatic hardware detection/calibration and much more.
DigiKam [sourceforge.net] -- The most feature-rich application for digital photo management.
Wireless Assistant [kde-apps.org] -- Most user-friendly app for connecting to wireless networks. Managed Networks Support, WEP Encryption Support, Per Network (AP) Configuration Profiles, Automatic (DHCP, both dhcpcd and dhclient) and manual configuration options, Connection status monitoring, etc
KDE Education [kde.org] -- Educational (Science, Literature, Geography, etc) programs for children. Could play a big role in whether school districts decide to use Free Software in their classrooms.
Konqueror File Manager [konqueror.org] -- Embeded image/PDF/music/video viewing (via KMPlayer) and a tree-view arrangement of the filesystem familiar to Windows users (Nautilus doesn't come anywhere close)
KDE Control Center [kde.org] -- Centralized location for desktop control. Controls _all_ common aspects of the KDE applications: language, power settings, special effects, icon and window themes, shadows, shortcuts, printers, privacy, etc. This is what makes KDE so well integrated -- all KDE apps respect changes made here, so they all have the same feel. SUSE has even made YAST a module of the KDE control center so users can access distro-specific settings from here. Compare this to the dismembered approach Red Hat (and other gnome distros) have been forced to adopt in the absence of a centralized gnome control center. (ie. a bunch of individial programs named redhat-config-**** that nobody can ever remember)
Seamless, transparent network file access [kde.org] on SMB, FTP, SSH and WebDav networks from _any_ KDE application.
Kaffeine [sourceforge.net] -- The most polished FOSS movie player.
MythTV [mythtv.org] -- The most advanced analog and digital TV viewer/recorder in the Free Software world (built using QT).
Baghira [sourceforge.net] -- A native QT style that faithfully imitates OS X eyecandy, aimed at new users coming from the Mac world.
Klik [atekon.de] -- Gives non-expert access to bleeding edge versions of apps without requiring any compilation or permanent installation.
KDE and QT also make up a technically superior platform for developers, drastically lowering the learning curve for programmers new to FOSS development. KDE apps can be built from the ground up using the best development tools in the Free Software world (which also happen to be built on QT/KDE):
Kdevelop [kdevelop.org] for syntax highlighting, application templates, and project organization.
QT designer [trolltech.com] for GUI development
Quanta [kdewebdev.org] -- Rich web development environment for PHP, CSS, DocBook, HTML, XML, etc with advanced con
Parent
Re:Must-have KDE apps (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
AmaroK = Threat to iTunes? Whatever! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to troll here, but how exactly is an OSS Linux music player a threat to iTunes?
Does Amarok run on Windows or MacOSX? (no)
Does iTunes run on Linux? (no)
How much does AmaroK cost? (FREE)
How much does iTunes cost? (FREE)
Does Amarok allow easy updating/syncing of an iPod? (no)
How many people will abandon their cache of Fairplay DRMed music for a new application?
(kind of a trick question, given neither player will run on the other's platform)
Saying Amarok is a threat to iTunes is like saying an independant movie theater in Russia is a threat to a U.S. movie theater conglomerate. It's also like that often repeated phrase "iPod Killer": a claim often made, never delivered.
Parent
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not really, since KDE never has been dependant of corporate sponsorship and has always been more a comunity effort. Unlike others.
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:2)
Knoppix, Linspire, Xandros, MEPIS (Score:5, Insightful)
Kubuntu Breezy should not be mailed out for free until it is fixed. Any Linux distro that always fails to save the LAN gateway address you type in isn't worth the CD its burned on. Plus the dialogs that cannot be fully viewed on an XGA screen (with plenty of empty space in the dialogs) plus a host of other problems I ran into within the first 90 min of use. (Yes, I filed those bugs. You're welcome.) So in short, they didn't test it.
Kubuntu is *very* nice looking though. That aspect is top-notch.
OTOH even as a KDE fan I'm glad Novel chose one desktop, Gnome. Every distro should chose one desktop. Its unnerving when you try out a distro as prestigious as SuSE 10 and you can't delete any files from Konqueror because "Protocol 'Trash' does not exist".
As a Corel-> Xandros Linux user going back to 1999, I can say that watching the lack of focus and sloppy execution on these other 'portentious' distros (you know who they are) has been absolutely comic.
I have to wonder if Ubuntu will suffer by elevating KDE to the level of Gnome.
Parent
Mepis, Xandros (Score:2)
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:3, Insightful)
When it comes to corporate politics, yes KDE is losing some ground. But if corporate circle jerks are your measure of success,
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:3, Informative)
Few days ago SUN abandoned its gnome based Java Desktop failure.
It did nothing of the sort! Sun Microsystems is putting *more* money and effort into GNOME now. The problem was that JDS was rapidly turning into a fork of GNOME. In an incredibly rare burst of cluefulness, Sun realised this, and understood the solution: it needed to get the thousands of patches it created to build JDS (including those to make it run on OpenSolaris) into GNOME CVS and bring it back to being just a branded GNOME... instead of
Re:The only major KDE distro? (Score:3, Insightful)
Consumer choice is not based on arguments or facts.
It is not about arguments or facts, it is about preferences.
Sounds strange to you. Yes, it is.
"KDE is an absolute requirement for any desktop linux with actual facts"
Because we want it and we like it best.
Preferences must not be proven. Any proofs of that kind will be academic fraud anyway. When you chose your meal: Apple or pear. Do you count arguments? No. You take what you like best.
A Novell gnome based D
Re:European users can lend support. (Score:2)
- Chris
Re:European users can lend support. (Score:3, Informative)
But when you consider how KDE was born in Europe, and now heavily developed in Europe and Asia, it's not surprising that it has such fantastic support for non-English languages.
The user should not have to care (Score:5, Insightful)
The major problem I can see is that the user should not even have to care whether a given app is GNOME, KDE or whatever. You set your fonts and colours in the GNOME control panel, then you start a KDE app and it looks like weird-arse shit. WTF?
No serious open-source desktop these days can be all-GNOME or all-KDE; you need to make the mixture not affect the end user at all. They desperately need a unified look-and-feel control panel that will set this stuff consistently without the user having to care.
Sounds like your installation is botched. (Score:3, Informative)
If you're using Kubuntu 5.10, check the K -> System Settings -> Appearance configuration panel. Notice the "GTK styles and fonts" portion. It allows you to easily set your GTK style and fonts to those used by KDE. And it works fine for every GNOME/GTK+ app that I use.
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:3, Interesting)
Carrying things to an extreme, if you want true consistency for users, you shouldn't be changing font and colour settings........
But I think your suggestion about a unified control panel is the best suggestion I've heard re. unifying the "Linux desktop". Personally, I'm glad there are several Linux desktop environments, all competing with each other and rapidly improving together as a resu
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, now you're just being silly. Of course refrigerators growing on trees does not appear to be very far within the realms of possibility, but can you seriously not imagine a common colour-scheme configuration shared between the two desktops? It doesn't seem like madness to me, maybe you could just have a directory ~/.xtheme or something with files in there. I guess this wouldn't fit in with this registry-alike thing Gnome has (disclaimer: I know nothing about Gnome and may be wrong), but with a little discussion, I definitely think it would be possible to work something out...
Oh, and without wanting to start a patriotic flamewar, there are many countries where nobody needs to get health insurance... so maybe the things that seem impossible are not as crazy as you think!
Parent
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:2)
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:5, Interesting)
KDE's Konsole is clearly superior to GNOME's terminal app, which is achingly slow. Fedora, a GNOME-centric distribution, has recognized that fact by making Konsole the terminal app on GNOME (desktop right-click->New Terminal). And GNOME has nothing to compare to Konqueror.
Parent
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:2)
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:2)
K3B and Klipper kept me on KDE for a looooong time.
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting that you have this in the "impossible utopia" column. I don't have to pay for health insurance.
- Chris
Parent
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't have to pay for health insurance.
Yes, you do.
Even if it's called something else, you pay.
Re:The user should not have to care (Score:2)
what Ubuntu could do is... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:what Ubuntu could do is... (Score:3, Insightful)
make CD #1 mostly a base system with xorg and the basic x apps, similar to Slackware's #1 CD, and make a #2 CD with Gnome & KDE letting the user decide to install either Gnome and/or KDE, or users can just download the #1 CD install and get a basic OS booting, and download & install either gnome or kde via ftp after installing CD #1
You do realise we're talking about Ubuntu here, which aims to provide a very user-friendly environment ?
Ubuntu/Kubuntu (Score:2)
Below Below Zero (Score:2)
ARRRG. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:ARRRG. (Score:2)
People have preferences. Some of us really dislike gnome. While others dislike kde. The same goes for anything else that comes along.
Should we have 100 to support? No of course not, but expecting a single unified desktop to be shoved down our throats isnt realistic either.
Re:ARRRG. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:ARRRG. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:ARRRG. (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess your probably don't want to hear about Xubuntu [ubuntu.com] then?
On a more serious note, stop. "Back to square one" and "splitting the userbase"? Give me a break. The underlying parts of K/X/Ubuntu remain the same - they all are using the same kernel, can use the same apps, and all of th
CUPS size (Score:2, Funny)
Almost too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
* Certainly, nobody had managed to make a distribution that is as polished, hassle free, and freely available, before Ubuntu came. And it's not because of technical difficulties, Debian has had apt-get for ages, and other distros have had good installers for ages, and most of the software on Ubuntu has been around for quite some time, too.
Thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
Gnome doesn't do enough for the end user. Too many settings required mucking around in either the registry-like editor, or just plain command line things.
I remember trying to use Gnome is SuSE 9.0, and not being able to figure out how to specify which app to use for which mime type. Someone politely informed me that this [fedoraforum.org] was the procedure to set default apps for various mime-types.
Yeah, that's noob friendly. Apparently, wasn't 'fixed' in 2.10, either. Is it fixed now?
Either way, lack of simple things like that, plus KDE's KIOslaves (which are beautiful, come on, who doesn't love fish:// or klik://), plus a far superior file browser (I've seen the gnome when I'm forced to load up a GTK app, which is rare).
How do I open from a network location in gnome? Can it be done? (In the file browser?)
Why don't I 'contribute' to the gnome project to make these things better? Simple: KDE already does them correctly for me.
Do I mind that other people are happy with gnome, or prefer gnome? No. But all you gnome-heads should stop stomping on other people's Desktop Environments. Seriously; Gnome doesn't work for some of us.
If the next OpenSuSE (which is my current distribution) has inferior KDE support, I'll be thrilled to move to a thriving Kubuntu.
There's nothing wrong with Gnome, for those who use it. But for some of us, gnome just doesn't cut it. Gnome may be different, Gnome may be more 'unix'. But some of us who actually use Linux as our sole operating system rely on KDE, and couldn't imagine switching to gnome.
Its Ok Gnome Fans (Score:5, Informative)
Gnome people, this is not the time to freak out. Just because Mark is using KDE as his desktop and he wants to put more resources into KDE doesn't mean that the Gnome side of Ubuntu is going to suffer. There could be many reasons for his new found interest in Kubuntu.
1.From the beginning it seems that Mark felt a little guilty that he had to pick one desktop to really do well. I know a lot of people think "just do one thing and do it well" is an admirable philosophy, but in the GNU world that is the path to weakness. The Linux Desktop is chaos and unless you want to spend enough to harness that chaos you HAVE to make some big decisions like that. When he first started with Ubuntu, he had no idea how successful it was going to be. He had not idea if the whole thing would be a waste of money, or that no one would care. But now that Ubuntu is making a huge splash in the Linux world and is making noise across the globe Mark has decided that he is willing to commit more of his resources to the entire Ubuntu project. He set up the Ubuntu foundation and gave it $10 million to begin with. So a new commitment to KDE and Kubuntu DOES NOT MEAN THAT UBUNTU WILL HAVE LESS, just that probably he will be willing to give more overall to help the KDE side as well.
2.Despite its relative popularity, the Kubuntu side of the project has not had nearly the resources the other side has gotten so far. The Kubuntu maintainer- Jonathan Riddell - did a lot of the work in its free time. At first he was only given a smallish contract at the end of releases to help get them in better shape. I bet that if Mark is serious about Kubuntu it will finally have a full time developer (if that is not already the case).
3.A big goal of the entire Ubuntu project for Mark is his Edubuntu [edubuntu.org] side project. Well in all honesty Kubuntu might be a better fit for that project than Ubuntu for a few reasons: the The KDE Edutainment Project [kde.org] is the single best educational software on the GNU desktop and is far more developed than anything on the Gnome side. Plus KDE uses less RAM (this is my own opinion) so it might be a better fit for the older computers that many schools might have today. Gnome hates to have less than 256mb, and you can't build a user friendly desktop around XFCE (and it would probably take less resources to make Kubuntu better than to fix all of Gnome's RAM problems single handily). So a better KDE is better for the Kubuntu project.
4.The entire Ubuntu community has been trying better to make the KDE side seem like an equal ever since it was announced. On the Official Forums we have separated KDE and Gnome areas for the Breezy release, and beyond that a forum independent forum was made by a third party for Kubuntu. [kubuntuforums.net] So in some ways Mark is just catching up to the rest of the community.
The last thing any Gnome fan and Ubuntu user needs to think is that "the sky is falling." This is a GOOD thing for you Gnome fans. Why? A better Kubuntu will bring more people to the distro and that could help build the overall community. A better Kubuntu will help establish the entire project as THE Desktop Linux which would help with gaining support of third party application makers that won't release for anything not called Red Hat. A better Kubuntu shows that Mark is becoming even more devoted to the project, and considering the man makes more off of investments than the entire Linux service industry more of his support means that the entire project is is better shape. Finally, a better Kubuntu means that there is more choice in the community and that the entire project is maturing. Its a good time to be a Desktop Linux user.
Re:KDE is dying (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:KDE is dying (Score:2)
Re:KDE is dying (Score:2)
I disagree, Gnome is better for Windows Converts (Score:3, Insightful)
I disagree. I personally believe that Gnome is far better for new users than KDE. Why? Because its REALLY different. It gives the Linux desktop a distinct look that is different from Windows or OSX. The chameleon KDE can be made to look like them both or neither but this is bad for a new user because it does not give Linux Desktop a distinct look.
You might s
Re:I disagree, Gnome is better for Windows Convert (Score:3, Informative)
KDE is enough like Windows that it was immediately usable, with a relatively painless learning curve. Most stuff was where I expected it to be, and behaved pretty much how I expected it to behave. What was different was only a little different, not shockingly so. Hence the differences were only transient annoyances, not show-stoppers.
Conversely Gnome reminds me of MacOS (more so now than in the past!), and I find it nearly as baffling. I spend too much ti
A common mistake (Score:5, Interesting)
But! kdelibs are LGPL!
So if you are only using KDE interfaces, you may license as anything you want!
I don't know for sure, but I think this is intentional - if you want to develop cross platform apps, then you buy a Qt license from TrollTech (Although I would argue that neither Qt nor GTK+ is right for the job - instead choose FLTK or Wx). If you want to strengthen the Linux desktop (specifically the KDE part of it), then you can license it however you like w/o paying anyone anything.
Parent
Re:that's a mistake (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe not. But where does your reasoning come from? Companies can buy into it just like the software they are used to (if they want to be that stupid). People (like me) can freebie their way into it because they know it's not going to get taken away if QT disappears. Exactly where is the problem for anybody? Were it GPL-only, you'
Re:that's a mistake (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you know how many people get a new computer with Windows and spend an hour choosing their wallpaper, screensavers, IM avatars etc.? Loads. Look and feel and customisation is important even to the least tech-savvy person.
If Linux is to ever take off, it's got to out-choose Windows. This is where the big push is coming from... those people who choose not to run a crippled, expensive system but a cheaper more which might take a little more of a push. The people who c
Re:that's a mistake (Score:3, Insightful)
If that were true, Linux itself would be failing spectacularly in favour of the BSDs.
Gnome may be worse, but it isn't so much worse that it makes a difference to real-world users.
It does make a difference. If gnome was the standard linux desktop I would be using
Re:I tried Kubuntu... (Score:3, Informative)
That's not KDE's fault, it's Ubuntu's. KDE works perfectly fine on many distributions without breaking them.
All that being said...Gnome is like an older Mac interface...KDE is sorta like windows...and it seems to me that Shuttlesworth is trying to capture Windows users...so using a KDE interface seems like a good idea. But, honestly, KDE is