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Booting an x86 Virtual Machine from an iPod

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:11 PM
from the what-happened-to-communing-with-nature dept.
randomjohndoe writes "IBM has taken the next logical extension of booting Linux from a flash drive. Researchers were recently able to boot Knoppix from an iPod and run an x86 virtual machine in VMware, which provided an easy way to encrypt the whole operating environment. The tests were conducted on a 60GB iPod photo using Knoppix."
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  • by Mr. Flibble (12943) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:13PM (#13336504) Homepage
    Yeah, neat.

    But does it run Linu...

    Oh. Nevermind.
  • by AmigaAvenger (210519) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:14PM (#13336510) Journal
    ok, so they used an ipod as an external usb hard drive and booted knoppix with it. we pay researchers to do stuff like this??? there is absolutely nothing amazing/revolutionary/interesting about that...

    next week, stay tuned for when they are going to install windows on a 1 gb usb keydrive!!

    • stay tuned for when they are going to install windows on a 1 gb usb keydrive!!

      Won't you have product activation problems (I'm assuming WinXP here) if you try to take that keydrive and plug it into a different machine?

    • by pokka (557695) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:28PM (#13336583)
      ok, so they used an ipod as an external usb hard drive and booted knoppix with it. we pay researchers to do stuff like this??? there is absolutely nothing amazing/revolutionary/interesting about that...

      Well, maybe it's not revolutionary, but it's nice that someone took the time to actually figure out all the random issues related to having a roaming workstation (not just a roaming profile) and making sure that it not only works on any x86 configuration, but that files, settings, and preferences are written back to the device, apps work properly, and everything is encrypted so that your data isn't compromised if your device is stolen..

      It's more of a complete solution, versus a bunch of ideas that "anyone could have put together" but no one did.
      • sorry, should have clarified... we buy from ibm, we, as in consumers, pays ibm, which in turn pays the engineers... (although ibm gets a very large chunk of government money also)
        • I dunno man (Score:4, Insightful)

          by cbreaker (561297) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:31PM (#13336599) Journal
          That's kinda a stretch. IBM is a corporation, not a government agency. If the government pays them, I'm sure it's to buy stuff or pay for specific tasks, not "here's some money. kk thx."

          If you buy IBM products, it's no longer your money, it's theirs. Likewise, if I buy a used iPod from you, would you want me telling you how to spend that money?

          Plus, what they're doing is proof of concept type stuff. Research. Not enough companies to this kind of stuff anymore. Xeorx, AT&T, DEC.. all gone. IBM does research on a lot more then this too - they're into a lot of shit. I say we encourage them to keep it up. Because it's not like Microsoft does any cool stuff like this.
      • by nzkbuk (773506) on Wednesday August 17 2005, @12:09AM (#13336741)
        Someone thought about screwing around with an Ipod to do things other than play music.

        Not really, they are just using it as a portable hdd. It's been done before I even have OSX and Linux installs on mine for if I need to fsck a disk at a customers site.

        Someone managed to get Linux on an Ipod and documented it.

        No, at least not in this article and not as you'd think it. The iPod is NOT running linux, it's simply being used as a storage medium.

        Someone saw a new product.

        Kind of from what I can tell the basic idea is a removable storage device with linux on it who's primary purpose is to run vmware which you then run that other OS.
        This way you seperare the OS from the hardware, then run 1 os to drive the hardware and 1 os as an operating enviroment.
        Linux is known for 'happily' moving hardware. So you run a distro (knoppix) that has all the drivers and is good at autodetecting and running on any x86. That distro boots into X with auto login that starts vmware running M$ software. So in this way you're never having to worry about drivers / activation due to hardware changes etc.
  • Now that they have Knoppix running on their iPods and are running x86 virtual machines, they could run all sorts of neat software like mpg321!
  • by amper (33785) * on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:17PM (#13336525) Homepage Journal
    You know, the installation of Mac OS X on my iPods and external, bus-powered FireWire LaCie drives are all bootable on any Macintosh with built-in FireWire (minus the B&W G3's and PCI G4's).

    You can even store your iTunes folder on the iPod, and use iTunes to load the thing...

    So basically, IBM is just saying that they've discovered that hard drives are a lot smaller and cheaper than they used to be. Wow. I'm impressed!
    • Home on iPod (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CdBee (742846) on Wednesday August 17 2005, @04:05AM (#13337389)
      Home on iPod [ipodhacks.com] was a feature slated for inclusion in OSX 10.3 Panther - it was the opportunity to have an encrypted home directory, containing application settings, documents and apps in a partition on an iPod's internal drive.

      When connected to a supported Mac, the OS would allow the user to log in with their usual login and password, giving a seamless M
      the feature was apparently scrapped as desktop usage was too stressful on the iPod hard drive
  • by saskboy (600063) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:19PM (#13336536) Homepage Journal
    But... does it play mp3's?

    Get it? Usually you ask if it runs linux, but since this Ipod does run linux, it's funnier to ask if it still can play music.

    Never mind, I should just go to bed.
  • iPod? (Score:2, Informative)

    Or even better, use a firewire flash drive (up to 4GB) like this one: http://www.kanguru.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryI D=39 [kanguru.com]. Why do you need 60GB to boot Knoppix, unless you are doing disaster recovery. Also, the constant spin of an iPod's platters will significantly decrease the life of the drive. The iPod is meant to move chunks of data (music files) over to flash memory to reduce HD spin and increase battery life. Not to run an OS. Target/Firewire boots have been a life-saver in the Mac world and I o
  • by larry bagina (561269) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:21PM (#13336544) Journal
    Did the submitter even read the article? It's primarily about IBM's SoulPad software, not the fact that they booted linux from an iPod.
        • That's a very, very, very, very bad idea. Let me explain why.

          First.
          Let me get some definitions straight:
          mp3: Lossy format. Converting to mp3 means encoding your music. The best encoder is LAME (As proof, I suggest you check out hydrogenaudio [hydrogenaudio.org])

          ogg Vorbis [vorbis.com]: Lossy format. Converting to ogg means encoding your music. The best encoder is (offcourse) the original ogg Vorbis encoder.

          mpc/Musepack [musepack.net]: Yet an other lossy format. Converting to mpc means encoding your music. The best encoder is (offcourse) the original Muse
  • by two_of_six (907010) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:23PM (#13336560)
    But who's going to be the first to run the x86 OSX hack on it?
  • Zaurus? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Neo-Rio-101 (700494) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:30PM (#13336590)
    Sharp has done this already with their latest Zaurus line. With a built-in 4Gb hard disk, powered by Linux, rotatable screen and keyboard, it is like a miniature laptop.

    The thing I want to know is, what CPU architecture are they playing with? Last time I checked, glibc was dropping support for ARM (which the Zaurus uses). What will IBM be using? (their own chips?)
    They're obviously not using x86 (too power hungry I think).

  • So, we're going to start buying 60gb Ipod Photos just to run an OS on them? Seriously, what's the point? An IPod hard drive was configured to access photos and songs at optimum speed, or just songs if it's not a photo model, not to deal with the massive overhead of running an OS. Can you imagine the pain of the third-degree burns if you picked up an IPod running an OS? Especially Windows...
      • The point here isn't the hardware they ran it on, but rather the software they designed to make a workstation that's truly hardware (or at least processor-and-mobo) independent. You can take the box away, plug it into a different workstation somewhere, and it comes right back up as if it was your own computer.

        Think about how many employees IBM has worldwide. It's in the hundreds of thousands. Think of how much it costs to equip them all with Thinkpads (even if they are made by Lenovo now). Now think about t
  • This, or something like it, could be the future of portable computing -- a home directory you carry with you. With the modest expectation of your favorite (modern, month-or-so old) shell, window manager, desktop environment, and a grab bag of popular packages on a host pc, why not?! I suppose package resolution may become an issue. Perhaps if they standardize on Knoppix (or whatever), there can be a way to use packages from your portable drive (copied to temp space, of course!) so you can run gimp-alpha
  • That's nothing... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by creimer (824291) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:41PM (#13336633) Homepage
    I'm still waiting to install Linux on my microwave so it cooks the popcorn automatically without setting it on fire and triggering the fire alarm.
  • Who didn't RTFA? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CyberVenom (697959) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:45PM (#13336649)
    For all you who didn't RTFA, they are booting from a USB mass storage device (which just happens to be an iPod) running Knoppix, and virtualizing the hardware to allow a less flexible OS (*cough* windows *cough*) to run on virtually any x86 hardware. The benefit being that you can take your Windows desktop's "Soul" with you on your iPod and just plug it in and go wherever you have a computer handy. Nothing revolutionary here except that IBM is starting to push this tword a dedicated device and software that should make setting this sort of thing up easier for the layperson. Pretty soon grandma will be toting her windows install, complete with Word, Explorer, and her favorite games downloaded from Yahoo, all on her trendy iPod which she can also use to listen to cool tunes when she's on the plane and doesn't have her grandson's computer to borrow.
    Personally I think this trend could be a very good thing, what with the horrible attempts at separation of user data in current operating systems where the majority of the data is actually shared.
  • RTFA for God's sake! (Score:5, Informative)

    by ArhcAngel (247594) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:58PM (#13336701)
    What is ironic is they are using Linux to boot Windows (or any x86 OS) You can use ANY adequetly configured pc to boot from. They chose Knoppix for it's excellent hardware detection. The data is encrypted and within 2 minutes you can have your entire desktop restored from a suspended state. If you actually go to the project web site http://www.research.ibm.com/WearableComputing/Soul Pad/soulpad.html [ibm.com] there is some really cool potential to this. Booting from a USB device is a no brainer but the stuff they are doing will make taking it with you much easier and cost effective.
  • by SUJovian (662632) on Wednesday August 17 2005, @12:12AM (#13336749) Homepage
    For those who didn't RTFA, IBM is developing a way for you to take the portable HD you installed an OS onto from your computer and use it to boot another computer somewhere else, a function very familiar to Mac users who've been doing it pretty much since the FireWire port was invented, but is as yet not possible on WinTel/x86 machines. All I can say, It's About F***ing Time.
  • After going over the comments, it seems that most of the people miss the point. It's easily understandable why, because the Slashdot headline is somewhat misleading.

    This is not a "gee wiz, somebody got Knoppix to run on an iPod and encrypt the files on the drive". That would be kind of pointless. What makes this newsworthy is that they have developed a way to put an OS, applications, and datafiles all together on one portable device. This way, you can take everything in your computer (including the OS and its configuration), or as they put it the "soul" of your machine, and run it on another machine independent of whatever OS is installed on it.

    While currently you can store your own data files on a flash drive and access them on another PC (so as long as that PC has the software needed to read those files), you're still limited to the OS and configuration of that temporary host. With this, the temporary host doesn't even have to have an OS installed on it; it's all run from the portable device.

    • What makes this newsworthy is that they have developed a way to put an OS, applications, and datafiles all together on one portable device.

      Yeah amazing! One day though they will come out with portable "optical discs" with holes in the middle that you can store all your data and applications on. Word has it the going term in research circles is "versatile discs". Further down the road are magnetic hard drives so small you can take them with you in your briefcase.

      Once these developments become commercial
  • Can anyone suggest (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Council (514577) <rmunroe@NoSPam.gmail.com> on Wednesday August 17 2005, @12:21AM (#13336779) Homepage
    Linux booted on device X, which, depending on the value of X, can either be crazy weird (a watch) or pretty boring (iPod drive).

    Can anyone suggest an article in the format

    "Booting Linux on a _______"

    that would not be vaguely believable?
  • by Max Romantschuk (132276) <max@romantschuk.fi> on Wednesday August 17 2005, @12:59AM (#13336886) Homepage
    The main interest of this article is the IBM SoulPad research project, here: http://www.research.ibm.com/WearableComputing/Soul Pad/soulpad.html [ibm.com].

    There's a neat video of how it works too.
  • by Bob Cat - NYMPHS (313647) on Wednesday August 17 2005, @01:24AM (#13336978) Homepage
    Can it perform cunnilingus on a hardwood floor?
  • If only... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by el_womble (779715) on Wednesday August 17 2005, @02:25AM (#13337172) Homepage

    ...you could do it without an iPod or Flashdrive! Imagine if you could just point a web browser at your box at home and you could use it as if you were there!

    ..oh... yeah. SSH, X11, VNC. Surely these are better solutions than having to takeover someones whole computer just because you can't stand to loose your session data or use WinXP? I guess its neat that someone has put a LiveCD on RAM, but it seems to make life harder than it really needs to be - still each to there own.

  • Shuffle (Score:5, Funny)

    by cuteseal (794590) on Wednesday August 17 2005, @05:22AM (#13337580) Homepage
    Hey if you had an iPod shuffle, you could surprise yourself by booting up a random OS each time! :D
    • yep (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rebug (520669) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:14PM (#13336516)
      It's not designed to have the HD running very hard, either. Run an OS off your iPod for ten minutes and that bad boy is smokin' hot.
    • Re:Uhh.. (Score:3, Informative)

      You are right. The summary is badly phrased. Take the idea of booting off a flash key, and the logical extension is to boot off something bigger than a flash key, hence an iPod.

      The article is confusing, so I'm still not sure exactly what the point is. They talk about an "encrypted virtual machine," as if the phrase has meaning...
      • Re:Uhh.. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Shanep (68243) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:31PM (#13336594) Homepage
        The article is confusing, so I'm still not sure exactly what the point is.

        Yes at first I thought the iPod was being used to execute bochs and thus run an x86 OS. But this is about using the iPod as a USB drive to store and run a VMware machine?

        Can someone explain to me why I should be thinking something other than "big deal"?

        I can run VMware machines from my external USB and Firewire drives. I wouldn't bother trying to do this from my iRiver H340 because the performance would suck and I don't want to stress my MP3 player by using it in a longer term way which it was not designed for.
        • Now seriously, at times it seems like any crap gets the /. front page if it mentions an iPod. I remember for example the front page story (I'm too lazy to search and post the link though) about using a lot of iPods as USB hard drives to haul around movie footage.

          And just like in this case, an overpriced USB HDD at that, if used for only that purpose. For all its merits as an MP3 player, if you're going to use it _only_ as an external HDD, there are much cheaper HDD's around.

          I don't know, there seems to be a
    • Re:Eh... (Score:2, Interesting)

      The computer industry seems to be moving at different speeds. Today, for example, you can buy a 64-bit CPU that operates at 3gHz, 32-bit memory that operates at 400mHz, and a 128-bit graphics card with 300mHz RAMDAC. Nobody seems interested in designing a complete system in the PC industry -- instead all the "progress" is in optimizing or extending components and hoping they work when you throw them together.

      You sir, have just described a Mac. If the intel switch works, I'm dual booting OS X and Slackware

    • Re:Eh... (Score:3, Insightful)

      The computer industry seems to be moving at different speeds. Today, for example, you can buy a 64-bit CPU that operates at 3gHz, 32-bit memory that operates at 400mHz, and a 128-bit graphics card with 300mHz RAMDAC. Nobody seems interested in designing a complete system in the PC industry -- instead all the "progress" is in optimizing or extending components and hoping they work when you throw them together.

      While generally I'd agree with that statement, it's not quite as clear cut as you make out. most
    • Re:Eh... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ciroknight (601098) on Tuesday August 16 2005, @11:59PM (#13336706)
      and while this sounds like an interesting hack I wish more focus would be placed on making the entire platform secure.

      I'd say this system actually did this part. I mean, after all, the SoulPad software features an encrypting userspace kernel module to encrypt the file system, thus making it a secure solution. Anything short of TPA really couldn't do a better job. And we know how slashdotters feel about that.

      As for the rest of your comment, bullshit. Has nothing to do with anything. Encryption in software will always and forever be better than encryption in hardware because as that hardware ages, bugs will be found, and holes will be punched. If it's a software file system, you're inconvienenced by a few hours of decrypting all your files and re-encrypting at the most, or just patching your system in the least. Meanwhile with your solution, you'd throw away the whole computer.
      • Re:Eh... (Score:3, Informative)

        You are wrong that we don't know how to make memory as fast as the CPU. It's that it's not cost effective to do so. It's also a case of decreasing returns. That's why you can get away with the different levels of cache which run at different speeds.
    • IBM says

      Since it is possible that the user may lose his SoulPad, we encrypt sensitive data on the SoulPad, namely the virtual machine state using the AES128 block cipher.

      source [ibm.com]

      It's sort of an updated version of the original Next concept, in which users would store everything on a removable drive. If one had to use a different NextCube, one would simply pop in the disc, and boot into one's usual operating environment, with all the personalized software, user settings and so on. Allegedly, it didn't work so

    • No. A USB memory stick, as it's used today, is really only practicle for storing datafiles. This goes beyond the datafiles and puts the OS and the applications on the portable drive, so when you go to a different computer you're not just reading your saved files from the portable device, you're actually only using the machine's hardware and running your own personal copy and configuraton of the OS.

      So, theoretically, you should see the exact same programs and your OS should act the exact same way regardless