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Cuba Switching to Linux
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu May 19, 2005 08:12 AM
from the comrade-tux dept.
from the comrade-tux dept.
Tony Montana writes "According to several news sites the government of Cuba is dumping Windows in favour of Linux. Cuba's director of information technology, Roberto del Puerto, says that Cuba already has approximately 1500 computers running on Linux, and is working towards replacing Windows on all state owned computers."
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Lets start counting (Score:5, Funny)
this is 1
I am just curious to know... (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft is an American corporation, it isn't legally allowed to profit from or provide goods or services that are shipped to Cuba. If I am understanding the US Trade Embargo correctly...
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Re:I am just curious to know... (Score:5, Interesting)
Cuba used Windows. But they can't legally purchase Windows from Microsoft due to trade embargo, so they pirate it.
Now, Cuba does not want Windows any more. They want Linux.
So MS should be delighted that Cuba is no longer pirating their software. It's a win-win situation. I can't wait to hear MSs take on this.
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Re:I am just curious to know... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Funny)
Marxism Linism?
The Shining PATH?
Mao's Red Hat?
chkguevarra?
This is the sound of C.. [muziekcentrum.be]
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Funny)
They already have a health care system that costs a fraction of U.S. care and provides a similar mean population longevity. Linux seems like a natural complement to that efficiency.
But what if they decide to host the North American linux conference some year and nobody in the U.S. can go?
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Funny)
I can Imagine Castro doing a commercial for Linux:
"Linux. Works for computers as old as myself!" (smokes cigar)
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you'll find they are wanting to use it as it is 'free' as in 'not produced by a company in the country that has maintained a remarkably schizophrenic attitude to Cuba, attempted numerous coups and asassination attempts against the leader and is currently forcing the general populace to live below the poverty line by punitive trade embargoes all based on misplaced ideology' :).
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Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts (Score:5, Insightful)
The reality simply is that Cuba is run by a corrupt and incompetant military dictator whose only prior qualification was being a spoiled rich kid and lawyer. The complete mismanagement of the economy by his everlasting regime led to scarcity, and the spoils system inherent in any communist regime has led to a disparity whereby most Cubans live in abject poverty, but the priveledged few live in opulant comfort.
Cuba is not even a good example of how a communist ought to be run, but it is an excellent example of how communist governments eventually are run.
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Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:FUC#ING LIAR!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Cuba had the lowest malnutrition rate [fao.org] in Latin America from 1979-1992, before the US intensified sanctions. Its estimated number of malnourished as of the report date (2000) was 1.8 million, i.e. ~5%. This is almost completely due to the increased embargo; not being able to buy from the US (its nearest potential supplier) increases costs by about 30%; caloric intake during the time dropped 38%. Even still, for comparison, about 30 million Mexicans (~%28) are malnourished. Who is crying them a river?
As for your "ex-cuban" relatives, you are staring in the face the classic example of "selection bias". If they weren't anti-castro/anti-communist, they wouldn't have fled to the US, now would they?
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Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts (Score:5, Funny)
The reality simply is that Cuba is run by a corrupt and incompetant military dictator whose only prior qualification was being a spoiled rich kid and lawyer.
It sounds to me like Big Bill would be quite comfortable here, when he decides to retire. At only $33 Billion, he could just buy the whole place. Imagine him growing out his hair and having his image replacing all those of Che.
He could be just as corrupt and incompetent as he wants to be and no one would notice the difference. He'd have to get used to making eight hour speeches about the evil imperialist Linux worms, but we got pills now that make that no problem.
As for the rest of us, we'd finally get a real high quality English/Spanish translator built into
Windows!
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Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts (Score:5, Informative)
Castro was a rich kid and lawyer, but he only took from that his education, if you knew anything about the revolution you'd know he lived in poverty in the revolutionary camps out in the boonies. You'd also know that the rich folks like his family tended to support the corrupt Batista regime, and that Castro had the courage to fight against the inequality, while nearly ALL other rich families supported Batista.
You complain about the average Cuban living in poverty but you miss the following - ALL Cubans have access to government-issued food, education, and medical care. That's EVERYBODY, from the chauffer who drives Castro around to a dentist in Havana to a farmer in la Isla de Juventud.
You also complain about poverty but neglect to mention 90% of that poverty is due to the trade embargo by the USA. Cuba is a third-world country, that is definitely true. Now if you look at its income and compare to other countries of similar income you'll see that Cuba is far far ahead of other countries. Many residents of Latin America admire Castro for what he has done for Cuba, especially in light of all the aggression the USA has against them.
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Re:Nice Anti-Usian Propaganda, Now Some Facts (Score:5, Informative)
I was in Cuba in I think 1992, in the middle of the periodo especial, when western press reported of continuous power outages, no running water, oppressive policing. We (me and dad) were in a group of 8 tourists, and there was no VIP among us, so no chance they were polishing the country for us (though the tour guides obviously did not bring us to the worst conceivable places).
Facts observed:
Is Cuba a place that had the same leader for too long time? Granted. Is Cuba a place that has a low GNP, much lower than the US'? Granted too. Were the kangaroo trials on three men who tried to hijack a boat to the US and a few days later got executed a shame? Sure bet. Would Cuba be better off with socialism out and market economy in? I say, look at Haiti.
Lesson learnt: if it's about a country your country does not like, for any reason do not trust the information you get. No matter which country is yours and which the other. Either go and check for yourself, or simply guard your doubts.
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
The US doesn't maintain crippling economic embargos against most of them.
If you think the US attitude towards Cuba is *anything* other than a relic of the Cold War and the political consequence of the relatively large power wielded by exiles in the arena of Florida politics, you are sadly mistaken. And the sad truth is, Cuba does have the high ground in this.
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Re:You seem to have forgotten... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, however much governments (US or otherwise) wish to pretend that their foreign policy is based on morality, it isn't. OK? Foreign policy is solely about protecting your national interests : in terms of finance and security, and the sooner you recognise that, the more sense you'll make of it.
It's not about good guys vs bad guys, and it's especially not about democracy vs. dictatorship. A dictator friendly to US interests (the House of Saud, for instance) is always going to treated more favourably than an unfriendly democrat (say, the President of France, or "Old Europe" as we like to call ourselves).
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
The Saudi's are still appalling violators of human rights, and the latest Amnesty International reports suggest they're not about to change. The difference between American treatment of Saudi Arabia and Cuba is based on two things
i) Cuba is near, and the spectre of a communist boogeyman still plays well with the US electorate.
ii) Access to one of the world's largest reserves of oil is of more strategic importance than access to the world's best cigars.
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Informative)
Fulgencio Batista was a ruthless dictator, but that was all fine and dandy with the US because he was friendly with them. Not so with Cubans, which why Castro et al managed to overthrow him starting off with only 16 people.
And in Chile, Salvadore Allende was democratically elected, yet the US helped to overthrow him because he wasn't right-wing enough for them, and so that bastard Pinochet got run run roughshod over Chile for the next few decades. And that was all okay.
And in the Dominican Republic, Rafael Trujillo ("he may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch") ran a brutal dictatorship all with the help of the US. So why was he okay?
And in Nicaragua, Anastasio Somoza ran a disgraceful dictatorship all nicely sponsored by the US for decades. But once again, somehow that was okay but Sandinistas were not.
And let's not forget that good buddy of the US, Saddam Hussein, who received assloads of military equipment because it suited the interests of the US.
US history is so overrun with embarassing stuff like this it's depressing. But the worst part is that it keeps happening, and most Americans just don't seem to give a damn.
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Informative)
Mind you I'm American, but a lot of us are complete fools scarfing down whatever propaganda our leadership feeds us. I've seen the lie become truth so often in the past few years that I've developed a completely new respect for the foresight of George Orwell. The guy looks like a damned prophet today.
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting. When I was at school in Britain, every morning we said a prayer to God. In America I believe your kids pledge allegance to the flag of the United States of America. Now you might just accept that as a normal thing, but from this side of the pond that looks rather like like "brainwashing starting in kindergarten."
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Re:Lets start counting (Score:5, Insightful)
It is ironic that the real communists want to use GNU/Linux because it is free as in beer.
I just went back through the three articles cited in the story, and I didn't see any mention as to why Cuba was going through the conversion to Linux. Where did you get your information?
Other than the "free as in beer" reason, these possibilities occur to me:
I also question your use of the word "ironic" in this context, but I'll leave discussion of english metallurgy to slashdot's esteemed group of grammar nazis.
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whoo hoo 1500 ! (Score:5, Funny)
yeah 1500 computers !!, eat that AMIGA !!
Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
It's up to Cuban copyright law to decide whether you should have to pay Microsoft to use copies of their software.
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
Intellectual property doubly so.
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember, rights are not universal; they're granted at the discretion of the country in question, however much we might wish it otherwise.
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Informative)
If Cuba isn't a signatory to the international copyright convention, then Cuba has every right to do whatever it wants with Microsoft products.
However, it seems it is a member of the WIPO [wipo.int], so I suspect it is legally bound to recognize Microsoft's copyright.
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
What happens when cuban sysadmins start submitting patches into linux? is this not then code that is a product of cuba? that would be Illegal to bring into the USA.
which then comes into a linux used in the USA?
This worries me, as then microsoft could use this as a legal loophole to prohibit the use of Linux in the USA.
That would be a big boon for them as then they would have no competition.
Think about it. How ridiculous does it sound. Or not?
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
Or even Microsoft Canada. We don't buy into the isolationist argument up here, and we don't get our knickers bent out of shape trying to "prove" that communism doesn't work but undermining Cuba at every opportunity.
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Re:Can Microsoft even legally sell Windows in Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I'm glad you conceited snobs enjoy the embargo while the people of Cuba suffer because of it. The embargo severely cripples the Cuban economy, but hey, let's keep those people in poverty just so a few snobs like yourself can vacation on the Island free of American influences.
Perhaps you're not aware that not only can the USA not trade with Cuba under the embargo, but any international vessel that trades with Cuba cannot trade with the USA on that same trip. So if you are trading anything, you will aim most of your travels to the USA, because the Cuban imports/exports will not add anythign appreciable.
You may love keeping the embargo intact so you can take small vacations there like the conceited snob you are, but Cubans have alot of difficulty buying everyday necessities such as medicines, light bulbs, automobile parts, etc because of it.
You may love great beaches and cigars, which explains your reasons for going. When I (a US citizen) went we brought tens of thousands of dollars worth of medicines that US hospitals were disposing because they were just past their expiration date (but still good for all intents and purposes). The hospitals we visited were extremely gracious for this, medicines are really in short supply there because of the embargo.
You may like not dealing with Americans travelling in your little vacation paradise, but most cities are poorly lit, with only every 3 or 4 streetlights on. I thought at first this was to save electricity, but it's because they have a very short supply of light bulbs they can get through the embargo.
You may love the antique cars still driving around (with ridiculous amounts of air pollution), but Cubans have tough times getting automobile parts through the embargo. That's why they still have many old cars from before the embargo was placed. They have tough times not only buying new cars but even replacement parts for old cars. But hey, let's keep them in this state just so you can go and visit this quaint island.
It's funny how you dislike Americans so much, yet you're in reality far worse than the average American you despise so much.
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And that children (Score:5, Funny)
Positive Image (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Positive Image (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is a good deal for Cuba, as they can't legally buy Windows given the US embargo...actually they can't buy most software under the circumstances. Also, their currency weakness doesn't allow them to trade for services very well. Given that Linux will make the every-day person's life more productive I can't see anyone reasonably opposing Linux adoption in Cuba...the government won't benefit from this directly.
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Re:Positive Image (Score:5, Interesting)
Its tough to leave Cuba, its true, but even if you could leave Cuba would the US willingly accept everyone, provide them with green cards and citizenship etc? People risk death for a multitude of reasons, and its not just to escape the Castro boogey-man. I also submit that Cuban boat-people refugees make good media copy, but represent a small statistical segment of a) refugees risking entry to the US and b) segment of the Cuban population.
For the record, I've been to Cuba, toured the countryside ~alone~, and have been invited into people's homes and had dinner with 'normal' people. They're not living in constant fear of the Gestapo, they're not starving poor, and they're not uneducated hicks.
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Re:Are you talking about the US or Cuba? (Score:5, Insightful)
First, there's an issue of degree. There are far more ordinary people in Cuban prisons, who would not be imprisoned in any free country.
Perhaps. They jail political dissidents. We jail pot smokers. Thus, the US has the highest imprisonment rate in the world. (Or very close- we don't know North Korea's) Cuba's not even in the top ten.
Second, I wasn't defending the US, I was pointing out that Cuba is still a very repressive place, and those who want to pretend that everything's cool and its problems should just be accepted with a wink are themselves collaborating in the repression of the Cuban people.
I'd be one of the last to defend Cuba- it's a wreck of a country due to a meglomanical dictator. The world will be a better place when Castro is worm food.
But other countries simply don't see Cuba with anywhere near the level of hatred in the US. They see us pointing fingers at Cuba's repressive practices while we're busy keeping people in legal limbo forever in our own tiny slice of Cuba.
If we had cleaner hands other countries might be more willing to listen to us about Cuba.
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So much for spying (Score:5, Funny)
Great... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's cool... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:That's cool... (Score:5, Insightful)
But oh, I forgot, this is slashdot, where the US is a horrible fascist dicatorship and Cuba is a magical wonderland of sharing and human kindness.
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Re:That's cool... (Score:5, Interesting)
And maybe you should keep in mind that a lot of these "innocent" dissendents that are being arrested were or are actively plotting to overthrow the Cuban govenment, or even the assasination of Castro. Look at that shady CIA Posada character that's here in the U.S. now for a great example of one of those "innocent" dissidents.
I suppose you think the U.S. government wouldn't arrest people plotting the overthrow of the government or the assasination of the president?
-Eric
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Other counteries (Score:5, Informative)
Australia [slashdot.org]
South Korea [slashdot.org]
Brazil [slashdot.org]
Spain [slashdot.org]
India [slashdot.org]
Vienna [slashdot.org]
French Police [slashdot.org]
Dutch [slashdot.org]
Venezuela [slashdot.org]
Germany [slashdot.org]
Windows 98 license says: (Score:5, Interesting)
7. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. If this EULA is not labeled and the SOFTWARE PRODUCT is not identified as "North America Only Version" above, on the Product Identification Card, or on the SOFTWARE PRODUCT packaging or other written materials, then the following terms apply: You agree that you will not export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT to any country, person, or entity subject to U.S. export restrictions. You specifically agree not to export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT: (i) to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed or restricted the export of goods or services, which as of March 1999 include, but are not necessarily limited to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria, or to any national of any such country, wherever located, who intends to transmit or transport the SOFTWARE PRODUCT back to such country; (ii) to any person or entity who you know or have reason to know will utilize the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or portion thereof in the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons; or (iii) to any person or entity who has been prohibited from participating in U.S. export transactions by any federal agency of the U.S. government. You warrant and represent that neither the BXA (as defined below) nor any other U.S. federal agency has suspended, revoked or denied your export privileges.
Re:Fidel never liked monopolies (Score:5, Insightful)
How does the government having sole control over an industry make it any less of a monopoly?
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Re:State owned computers (Score:5, Informative)
I submitted it here as a YRO story, but it was deemed less relevant to Your Rights Online than Darl McBride's new open letter in response to Groklaw's new open letter to Darl McBride.
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Re:You consider this a win? (Score:5, Insightful)
But that is the "great" thing about the GPL and similar OSS licenses. Its free to anyone dispite ideological differences. If it wasn't, a F/OSS advocating developer could bar me from using their software because I also use non-Free software. A staunch pro-life developer of a scheduling package could bar an abotion clinic from using their software. If something is going to be free, it needs to be free, not "kinda-free, only when you agree with us"
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Re:WMDs (Score:5, Informative)
But all I heard from citizens was gripes about the government. The "free" healthcare is worth about as much as you'd expect a dictator's promises to be worth. The capitalist things, like the taxi system, work gloriously. The hotels, being right under the government's thumb, are a model for poor service and bizarre rules. For instance, you can't take your Cuban girlfriend up to your hotel room without paying a bribe.
I read a lot of books on Cuba before I went, and it seems like people who go to Cuba with an ideological agenda are shuttled carefully to the right places, where things look shiny and new. This is a potemkin village that impresses the heck out of people who want to be impressed.
But if you go a few blocks away, you see scenes like I did [amazing.com]. All these pictures were taken on what would be prime real estate in any other country, a block or less from the Malecon, the giant seawall that faces the ocean and is a major gathering spot for Cubans.
Cubans live in their decrepit and dangerous housing until it collapses, because if they maintained it the government would take it over and give it to someone else. No joke, sadly.
To put this slightly on topic, Cubans are generally not allowed to use the Internet, at least not at prices Cubans can afford. The Internet connections in the tourist hotels are closed to Cubans; only non-Cubans can use them. This is part of an effort to keep tourists on the busses and away from contact with the Cuban people.
The Cuban computers I saw were woefully out of date, with truly ancient versions of Windows on display. If my memory serves it was mainly Windows98, and I went in December 2002. So I doubt that this mandate from Castro will have that much effect. It's probably a propaganda effort to make Slashdotters look at his rule more favourably.
Even open source tyranny is still tyranny.
Alas.
D
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