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Linux On Your Tablet PC

Posted by CmdrTaco on Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:00 PM
from the stepping-in-the-right-direction dept.
Operating Systems Software Linux
tyman writes "Michael Rolig has created a Debian-based linux package for your Tablet PC. The support for various tablet features is limited by the features on the tablet Rolig owns, such as the "half-working" pen button features. One important missing feature is the screen-swivel buttons common with most tablets. However this is a good start for the development of linux for Tablet PCs."
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  • Open-source tablets... (Score:3, Funny)

    by tygerstripes (832644) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:04PM (#11238560)
    Soon we shall challenge M$ AND Glaxo-Smith-Kline! Yes!

  • element Computer (Score:4, Informative)

    by wed128 (722152) <woodrowdouglass.gmail@com> on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:08PM (#11238577)
    elementcomputer.com sells a convertible tablet running a custom Xandros linux. The distrobution doesn't come with kernel sources, and there are many limitations on the software side. Also, touchscreen calibration as a severe pain in the ass. As an early adopter, i can deal with these limitations, but it is DEFINATELY not ready for the mainstream.
    • elementcomputer.com sells a convertible tablet running a custom Xandros linux. The distrobution doesn't come with kernel sources, and there are many limitations on the software side. Also, touchscreen calibration as a severe pain in the ass. As an early adopter, i can deal with these limitations, but it is DEFINATELY not ready for the mainstream.

      That "tablet" has a resistive touch screen.

      Its not a tablet if it's touch sensitive. The whole idea is to be able to rest your palm on the display while writing.
      • Their solution to this is that the pressure reqired to activate the touch screen is above that which resting your hand requires. Although it can be activated by any object, it takes quite a lot of force unless you use something pointy like a stylus. I have no problem resting my hand while writing on it.
      • I think there are no UXGA tablets yet, but the Toshiba M200 has an SXGA+ display. I believe all Windows XP tablets that have active pens are pressure sensitive, and most tablet PCs have active pens. If you've got applications that don't understand your current pen's pressure sensitivity, try downloading Penabled software from Wacom. They make most of the pens and sensors, and their driver is required for applications like photoshop to read the pressure.

        I agree UXGA or higher resolution would be nice, but

  • In other news... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:08PM (#11238578)
    I put linux in my car. It can't steer, break, or play the radio yet, but it can make the windows go down (not up).

            • As you might have learned from Monty Python, simple denial will not suffice for an argument.

              Right. But he wasn't making an argument. He was replying to me, and I had already made a logical and forthright one. He was just telling me to calm down because this guy was an idiot. I had already explained why he was an idiot.

              Anyway, it doesn't much matter now. The post we're all talking about is labelled "funny," which I find reasonable. When I posted my reply, it wasn't even to that post, but one that complai

  • But... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Faust7 (314817) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:11PM (#11238598) Homepage
    Will I be able to recompile my kernel with a stylus? ;)

  • Excellent! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by upside (574799) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:12PM (#11238611) Journal
    I have a TC1000 and it crawls with WinXP. I'm going to try this and hopefully get a bit more oomph out of it. Debian's my favourite distro anyway.
      • *I can't see why you'd want to run Linux on a Tablet PC *

        because you can configure it to be much lighter?
        did you read what you were replying to? "winxp crawls..." well, maybe you think that crawling is "something pretty good".

        • *I can't see why you'd want to run Linux on a Tablet PC *

          because you can configure it to be much lighter?

          Bullshit. I just installed debian on my TC1000, and it weighed exactly the same as it did when I had XP on it.

      • I think Linux on TabletPC is interesting, but.. I still run XP Tablet PC edition on mine. Why? I can get most of the software I want (Mozilla Fox/Bird suite, Open Office, etc) on it, and have features that work.

        I would, however, move to using Linux on the device as soon as a Linux package that is mature for the Tablet PC became available. Why? Well, that's entirely politics and not technical. And that's the only 'good' reason, because I'm sure even a 'mature' package would have flaws -- but it would be a b

  • And? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Monx (742514)
    I've got linux running on my Fujitsu Stylistic 1200. It's a tablet from 97. It came with Windows 95 and has run Linux (via a loadlin) for years.
  • All the negative comments crack me up. It's projects like this that push invention, not just on the Linux side but also on the Microsoft side. So while the project might not be at 100% usability, it's certainly enough to get others involved, excited ect, and turn the development process from one of just development into one of hyper-development.

  • I'm cynical (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:15PM (#11238627)
    I'm feeling cynical about so much news of Linux stuff maybe happening. Starting. Beginning. Someone is working on X. We'll soon have Y

    Even some of the better distros at hardware detection like SuSE, Mandrake and Yellowdog have community forums filled with regulars who love using the OS, yet still don't have everything working. USB2 controllers only working at 1.0 speeds, ethernet not working, many with no sound and most without accelerated graphics.

    I love my linux computer, and I left Windows years ago... but when are we going to FINISH some of this stuff we started? I feel like I'm living in a world of workarounds.
    • Hardware detection generally blows. That's why I built this machine myself. I know what's in it, I know it works, and I know how to make it work with Linux. I have working USB 2.0, GigE, sound, and accelerated graphics. Nothing is being done with a "workaround", it's all native driver support (except the nVidia module). But maybe that's because I'm running Gentoo instead of SuSE/Mandrake/Fedora/insert "more stable" distro here.
    • but when are we going to FINISH some of this stuff we started

      "We" aren't going to finish it. I think the way to go is have it preinstalled, like Linspire [linspire.com] does, because most hardware has a perfectly working driver, it's just the pain of getting it all working, editing /etc/modules.conf, /etc/rc.d/rc.local et cetera. In the future, I don't expect to have time for this anymore, so I'll probably give my cash to a hardware vendor which has a deal with Linspire or similar distributions.

  • I never really saw any reason to own a Tablet PC, what does it have over a labtop?
    • It probably isn't for you. If you need to do a lot of sketching, layout, or if you need to enter data while walking, then tablets are ideal. I think a tablet would be a nice improvement over a conventional laptop's built-in pointing devices. I bought a Bluetooth mouse because I hated the finger wagger and the eraser in my laptop.
      • We are considering using tablet PC's for data entry in the cleanroom (marking locations of thermocouples and heaters and other equipment on our test specimens). Ideally this requires us to display 3D images on the screen. Would you happen to know if this is in any way realistic using a tablet PC (i.e. are there any that have decent 3D capabilities)?
    • not much. It's good for curling up on the couch and surfing the web, or maybe industry type stuff where you're walking and computing, but for everyday normal use a laptop is much more useful.
    • I love my Tablet PC (a Gateway M275), and have eagerly been awaiting better Linux implementation.

      Most of the time I use it as a Notebook. However, it es excellent for reading and marking up PDF files, or for doing art and drawing. Basically, the Tablet mode is a much better form factor than a Notebook for these activities.

      The question should be, why NOT own a Tablet PC?

      Some anti-Tablet comments remind me of those IBM-PC users back in the 80's, who used to make fun of Apple and their mice......who needs

    • Re:Why own a Tablet PC? (Score:5, Informative)

      by uss_valiant (760602) on Sunday January 02 2005, @01:09PM (#11238896) Homepage
      I never really saw any reason to own a Tablet PC, what does it have over a labtop?
      I've always dreamed of a Tablet PC and now, as I'm participating in a market analysis for Tablet PCs and WLAN, I must admit that the potential is there but the products are not ready yet.
      On the hardware side, there's the darn trade-off between the portability/mobility (weight, size) and the usefulness as a digitial ink writing pad. While I highly appreciate the mobility of my 12" convertible tablet pc, I stopped quite early using it as a writing pad for non-trivial diagrams and longer texts because 12" is too small and you even lose another 2"-3" because of the casing and tool bars.
      On the software side, there's a lack of applications and those applications that should be predestined for the tablet pc have serious disadvantages.
      As I've pointed out in the paragraph about hardware, IMO the tablet pc isn't ready or suitable for authoring longer texts or designs. I use my convertible in the notebook mode for these tasks.
      The tablet pc in slate mode is still perfect for taking notes, sketching some graphs and the like. For a student like me, this would be perfect, if a) all material would be available in a digitized form (lecture material, scripts, textbooks,...) and b) if the document viewer application had great digital ink support.
      • Acrobat Reader: Most documents at our university are either .pdf or .ps. Version 6 of the Acroreader is a nightmare. The application takes so much time to start and it handles documents with images really bad, just turning to the next page can take half a minute. In acroread 5, the same documents work perfectly. And if you want to use your tablet pc features in .pdfs, you got to buy the top of the line edition of the application! And even these features are not implemented that well. The digital ink is much better in the MS products and the GUI isn't very efficient. All in all, I'm extremely disappointed with this product.
      • MS PowerPoint: I'm not a MS fanboy, but I must admit that their whole MS Office line shows how applications can benefit from the tablet pc features. Only a few lectures are based on powerpoint presentations, but these are the only lectures where I can take my notes right there where I need them and it works like a dream.
      • GhostView: Well, half the documents I got are postscript documents. Ghostview has no digital ink features, so I'd simply print these files with a pdf printer if the acroreader didn't suck that bad at digital ink.
      • Jaws PDF Editor: Disappointed with the Adobe product, I buyed the student version of the Jaws pdf editor. But it isn't digital ink ready.
      • MS OneNote: MS OneNote is the application I use to sketch some block diagrams, take meeting notes, lecture notes, etc. It's far from perfect, i.e. there's a strange bug that makes it use 100% CPU time in certain documents, but I still like it and together with MS Powerpoint, it's the only application I use in tablet pc mode.
    • Tablets one pretty darn good for writing emails and Slashdot posts (like this one) while sitting on the couch or a bean bag.

      I have an NEC litepad pad which is just over a cm thick and about the size of a magazine. I use it almost exclusively for web browsing.

      Tablets are also great for note taking and brain storming. Imagine being able to take handwritten notes and diagrams where all the text is searchable (even if it has been written on an angle).

      IMHO, the form factor and amazing handwriting re

  • Rule #1 about Linux on Tablet PC (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Do NOT talk about Linux on Tablet PC

  • Tablet PCs aren't as new as you might think.... (Score:4, Informative)

    by zippity8 (446412) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:31PM (#11238724)
    While they are far from mainstream, there are many pages supporting equipment on Tablet PCs.

    Other than the pen device and the attached button, it's essentially just another laptop, so the standard tricks can work.

    Don't forget to check:
    http://www.linuxslate.org/ [linuxslate.org]
    http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ [linux-on-laptops.com]

  • Oh, that's so great. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dink Paisy (823325) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:31PM (#11238726) Homepage
    I recently got a tablet PC, and a Windows XP tablet is a very nice thing. There are three very huge problems with Linux support for tablet PC's, though.

    First is the lack of hardware support. If you happen to have a TC1000 then this guy has the drivers for you. If you happen to have an M200 (like I do), then he doesn't have the drivers for you.

    Second is the lack of handwriting recognition. That's essential for using a tablet in, you know, tablet mode. Without it, even choosing to visit www.slashdot.com is a chore, and you can forget about word processing or email in the comfortable tablet form factor while riding the bus.

    Third is the lack of applications. There are a few well chosen applications that support handwriting as a first class input mechanism. When scratching and scribbling on things it is comforting to have circles and lines, and even my messy handwriting, be the same as I put them in.

    It would be nice to have Linux working well on my tablet, but the tablet PC is a new hardware and software platform. Microsoft doesn't have a great and polished interface for it yet, only one that is good enough. Still, every little bit of that new platform that Microsoft and others provide for Windows XP on a tablet is a little bit that Linux doesn't have yet at all.

  • Rotating screen is HARD (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    1. Xrandr rotate extension does not work on Linux.
    2. Not all video adapter drivers support rotation.
    3. Of some that support some do it on software and it makes screen handling extremely slow.
    4. Framebuffer drivers exist only for couple adapters.
    5. Vesafb works, 1280x1024 screen rotated CCW takes approx. 2-3 seconds to redraw completely on slower cards. (Like my i865G) on the super fast cards it's only like 1s.
    6. With all solutions you have to restart atm the X when you want to rotate your screen.

    There are

  • zaurus (Score:5, Informative)

    by xeno (2667) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:41PM (#11238762)
    Maybe this is misdirected, but I already have a working tablet "pc" running Linux (albeit tiny and arm-based). It's called a Zaurus. The whole SL-C series is essentially a tablet PC, with rotatable screen+changing orientation, and pen input with handwriting recognition and onscreen kb + pointer functions. It works rather well using the stock Sharp linux distro, and OpenZaurus is really quite slick for this tablet-type device.

    Looking at this project, some areas that are incomplete include the swivel sensor and other doodads that have already been tackled by OZ. Seems like it would make sense to build on the OpenZaurus codebase, rather than start from scratch, especially for Debian.

    -J

    • I have one of these as well, and would like to add a blurb about pdaXrom [pdaxrom.org], which is an alternate ROM that uses X instead of a modified Qtopia.

      While it currently doesn't do anything for handwriting recognition (why bother with a full and excellent keyboard), and the UI works pretty well for touch input. Not only that, while your buddies are using slimmed-down feature-light software, you'll have a full word processor (abiword), spreadsheet (gnumeric), email program (pick one), browser (firefox, konqueror),

  • PenOS? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lawpoop (604919) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:42PM (#11238768) Homepage Journal
    Does anyone know of work towards a totally stylus based GUI? Right now everything in the GUI world seems based around pointing and clicking. However, gestures seem a natural for a transfer to a pen-based GUI.

  • Almost working. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Mantus (65568) on Sunday January 02 2005, @12:45PM (#11238781)
    I have one of these tablets (TC1000) running gentoo. Most of the hardware works but not 100%. For instance, the pen works but is really choppy and there is no configuration program so you have to spend about 1/2 an hour starting then exiting X and changing the xorg.conf device settings by hand. If you use GDM the pen doesn't work at all. There is also no way to emulate a third button with the pen since you have to press the #2 button and tap the screen (which is also how it works in windows). the .xmodmaprc on this site might work except gnome just says it will ignore it. Ive yet to get rotate to work, perhaps if i used the "nv" rather than "nvidia" driver. The point is, the support for the device is in such a state that linux can be used as the primary OS but not in a corporate enviornment.

  • I've been discussing all sorts of linux on tablet issues on my site:
    http://groundstate.ca/tablet [groundstate.ca]

    Includes available software, wireless roaming, Mandrakelinux, and specifically, the TC1000 and TC1100.

  • I started last year (pardon: two years ago) a little project about installing (SuSE) Linux on the above Tablet PC.

    If you like to contribute, feel free:
    http://www.neurath.org

    Frank

  • Debian on my Acer TM C100 - works fine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lkcl (517947) on Sunday January 02 2005, @01:11PM (#11238911) Homepage
    i have an acer TM c100. 256mb ram, 800mhz processor, 40gb hard drive, full size keyboard, 1024x768 tft screen and ONLY 1.4kg. for £850 + VAT last year.

    hardware it has PXE boot (so you can get it started without needing to go through USB floppy or USB cd-rom) wireless and 10/100 hardwire, and firewire and usb-2, i810 ac97 sound, IR port, a tracker-pad (with all 6 buttons recognised by linux) and the full screen is ESD-touch-sensitive.

    all other laptops you are bloody stupid to have bought, if you ask me: buy one of these and strap some bricks on the back if it makes you feel any better.

    me? i would be better off if i stuck with a 2.4 kernel or a debian/stable system because there are binary drivers available for the Wacom touchscreen chipset.

    the incompatibility between the drivers and X is due to the drivers (available on sf.net) being compiled for only 19200 and 38400 baud, but the wacom device's baud rate defaults to 115200.

    so i had to patch and recompile the X driver to cope with 115200 baud. i only managed this once - and then upgraded and lost it!

    the only other thing is that ACPI is not properly recognised (every single linux kernel presently available goes "invalid ACPI checksum, squawk!")

    as a consequence of this, you must select which of the networking devices you wish to see on your PCI bus at boot time - the RTL 8139, or the extra Texas Instruments 3.3V PCMCIA slot with a built-in orinico-compatible 802.11b wireless device.

    if you press the "flip" button, forget it - reboot time to get networking back.

    what else... oh yes. after a year of virtually constant use, i've cracked the screen "side" catches (but they still work) the "middle" catch broke last week (but the one on the other side for locking the screen into tablet mode is still there) i've worn writing off of S, C and the left shift and ctrl, scored _lines_ in the left shift key with my nails, but other than that, it's still serviceable, and i love it.

    oh. and the hard drive has about one head-crash per three months and wipes bits of my ext3 partitions out...

    • Debian on my Acer TM C100 - works fine ... i would be better off if i stuck with a 2.4 kernel or a debian/stable ... the incompatibility between the drivers and X ... ACPI is not properly recognised ... if you press the "flip" button, forget it - reboot time to get networking back ... and the hard drive has about one head-crash per three months ... but other than that, it's still serviceable

      I hope you aren't serious... What's your definition of "works fine", again?

      all other laptops you are bloody stupid

      • teehee. my previous machine was a sony vaio pcg 600 hek - roughly the same size, 1.5kg, and double the price (£2000)

        my requirements for laptops are quite specific: small and light equals best, in my book, with price coming next on the priority list, and right at the bottom of the list comes processor speed.

        my definition of "works fine" is that after a year of absolutely hammering the machine almost all day almost every day it's still useable, and in reasonable enough condition to make me not twitch
  • I've had my Toshiba Portege 3500 running Gentoo for a long time now. As far as I know everything is supported except for IR and some software configuration (sleep modes, etc). The digitizer works wonderfully with the beta drivers. Support may have moved into the stable driver by now. For help setting it up, I found this page: http://rekl.no-ip.org/3500/ which covers about everything. The only problem I had was that PCMCIA CDROM support is sketchy. For installation I found that Mandrake 9 (or was it 10 beta) worked but I couldn't find any other distro that detected the drive. At one point I may have had it working in Gentoo but I don't recall. There's two reasons I still have Windows on the tablet as well... first, the Toshiba BIOS is very difficult to access and the Windows tools to change bios settings are much easier. Second, I just haven't found any good inking programs for linux. I bought this for school and use ink all the time in taking class notes, it's very useful. The digitizer works great for gimp (pressure sensitivity works very well) but that's about it. Any ideas for linux inking programs that would work well for taking and organizing notes?

  • Is it totally worthless ? I don't think so. (Score:4, Informative)

    by juliancoccia (843242) on Sunday January 02 2005, @03:02PM (#11239448) Homepage
    The problem with tablet PCs is that there are tons of manufacturers out there (mostly in Asia) and it is very hard to find hardware support.

    A good example is my BluePAD Tablet PC. It totally lacks linux support and I was unable to find any info whatsoever about the touchpad interface.

    After playing with it for a while, I finally managed to do something useful with it and posted a small tarball on my site that would get it to boot into X:

    http://julian.coccia.com/article-71.html [coccia.com]

    Someone said it is stupid to install linux on a Tablet PC that already comes with an OS preinstalled. Well, I strongly disagree here.

    My Tablet PC came with CE.NET preinstalled. Everything worked, yes, but I couldn't install any software on it unless I wanted to write it myself which required me to sign up to M$ and get a demo copy of their CE.NET compiler (or whatever they call it). Therefore, the Tablet PC as it was as USELESS for me.

    Now I can boot into X and do what I wanted to do with it ;)

    More info on how I installed linux on it: http://julian.coccia.com/article-40.html [coccia.com]
    • The Bluepad isn't a tablet pc and if your Tablet PC came with Windows CE.NET it isn't a tablet.

      Tablet PCs have specific specifications such as active digitizers that only respond to pens (important for handwriting) and they need to run Windows XP Tablet PC edition for the amazing handwriting recognition.

      It's understandable that people get tablet pcs confused cause there's quite a market out there for slate style devices now.

      The blueslate isn't any more a tablet pc than a palm pilot is a pocket pc. They

  • I would recommend (Score:3, Informative)

    by MemoryDragon (544441) on Sunday January 02 2005, @04:35PM (#11239880)
    To check out the opie project, it runs neatly on Tablet based computers and is made for things like that (PDAs tablets...)

  • siemens simpad (Score:4, Informative)

    by Capt. Beyond (179592) on Sunday January 02 2005, @04:52PM (#11239935)
    The Siemens simpad can run linux, thanks to open simpad [opensimpad.org]. I run Qtopia [trolltech.com] on mine, but it can also run Opie [handhelds.org] and X11 if you want that. This screen is an actual touchscreen, so I don't even need a stylus, I can use my finger.
    • Yes, out of date. The bottom of the page says "Copyright 2003 Michael Rolig", and the TC1000 isn't bleeding edge either.

      And I don't know if Windows users should be lured into Linux on the TabletPC. Unless you want to scare the off, that is. ATM you'd just lose what's making the Tablet special (handwritting, OneNote, and so on), and if that was your first meeting with Linux, you'd never come back.

    • Re:wtf? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MemoryDragon (544441) on Sunday January 02 2005, @01:56PM (#11239137)
      Why do I want to run Linux on a tablet PC. It all comes down to being able to do what I want to do with my machine not being able to do what Microsoft wants me to do with it...
    • I've got a Portege 3500, so it's the older model, but from what I hear the digitizers are basically the same. Check out the beta drivers http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/index.php/main from linuxwacom, they support mine just fine.

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