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SCO Sells First Linux Licenses in UK

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Nov 30, 2004 08:18 AM
from the this-is-still-going-on dept.
Christopher writes "SCO has actually sold its first Linux licenses in the UK. These licenses permit the use of SCO's intellectual property that is apparently present in Linux distributions, and in binary form only. To my understanding SCO hasn't won yet and these licenses don't grant you any freedoms you didn't already have, but SCO's vice president Chris Sontag says that 20 to 30 organisations worldwide have purchased these licenses."
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  • Nothing new (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Underholdning (758194) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:20AM (#10951641) Homepage Journal
    There are also people who sell land on the moon. It's wortless, and people pitty the ones who buy it.
    • That has more of a purpose for when we inhabit the moon. Although I do not know how valid it will be considering that the US govt may not acknowledge the purchase, and that is if the US even inhabits the moon first. But as for SCO, if you have open source things, why do you need a license to use it?
        • Re:Nothing new (Score:5, Informative)

          by Phisbut (761268) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @09:07AM (#10952048)
          It cannot be purchased because nobody has the right to sell it because nobody owns it. IIRC, this has been agreed upon by all countries in the UN (feel free to correct me on this).

          You are correct on this. From Wikipedia : [wikipedia.org]

          In 1979 a Moon Treaty was drafted by the United Nations which prohibits military action on (Article 3) and ownership of the moon by signatory states, their corporations or citizens (Article 11). Non-signatory UN-member states are free to accede to it at any time. Non-UN-member states appear unbound by the treaty.

          Since the US signed the Moon Treaty, no US citizen may claim ownership on any part of the moon.

          • Re:Nothing new (Score:5, Informative)

            by lakin (702310) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @09:30AM (#10952258)
            Except, the US never signed the moon treaty. They did sign the Outer Space Treaty, but that limits the government, not citizens or companies.

            http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/results/ice/moon.htm [nasa.gov]

            This is also mentioned on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
            There is more detail here [affs.org]:
            "Only nine nations have ratified the Moon Treaty (Australia, Austria, Chile, Mexico, Morocco, the Netherlands, Pakistan, Philippines, and Uruguay), while over 90 have signed the Outer Space Treaty. By UN agreement, five signatures are sufficient to validate a treaty as an international instrument, but there is concern at the refusal of the USA and Russia/USSR to sign--the two nations most likely at present to engage significantly in space exploration."
    • by Zork the Almighty (599344) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:26AM (#10951689) Journal
      Next you'll be sued for depreciating the value of someone's moon land!
    • Re:Nothing new (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Amiga Lover (708890) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:31AM (#10951725)
      It's wortless, and people pitty the ones who buy it.

      It's not worthless to SCO.

      According to the recently release USL vs UCal agreement, USL couldn't take legal action against anyone for whom UNIX code had become public knowledge, but reserved the right to still take legal action against licensees to hold them to contracts.

      So according to this agreement, anything public knowledge about UNIX can go into Linux if it wanted to. Filenames, headers, code, whatever. It's ancient and decrepit now, but the freedom was there.

      Now, they can only sue licensees hence the legal action against IBM, Autozone and DaimlerChrysler, all of whom are licensees of UNIX.

      Now if SCO sells licenses, they get more licensees.

      Licensees they are OK to sue.

      Buy an SCO license, open up a world of litigation upon yourself. Listening EV1?
      • Re:Nothing new (Score:4, Insightful)

        by k98sven (324383) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @09:22AM (#10952189) Journal
        Now, they can only sue licensees hence the legal action against IBM, Autozone and DaimlerChrysler, all of whom are licensees of UNIX.

        Yes, but being an SCO Linux licensee doesn't necessarily make you a licensee of UNIX.

        From what I understand, the SCO Linux licenses are as vague in describing what exactly you are supposedly licensing as SCO is in describing what part of Linux is supposedly infringing.
      • "It's not worthless to SCO."

        Truer words, mon frere...

        "When it was launched in the UK, SCO said that by purchasing the licence, customers are "properly compensating SCO for the Unix source code, derivative Unix code and other Unix-related intellectual property and copyrights owned by SCO as it is currently found in Linux"."

        Of course, I really wonder if this is actually on the license agreement, because they certainly haven't mentioned Linux taint in court for a looooong time, and statements like this
  • Sigh. (Score:4, Informative)

    by rylin (688457) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:20AM (#10951647)
    05 Aug 2004.
    Hmm
    Outdated News for Nerds, Stuff that nobody wants to hear anything about anymore.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:22AM (#10951651)
    Ya they all happen to be Microsoft, Microsoft England, Microsoft Germany, Microsoft India, Microsoft Brazil, etc etc etc.
    • Remember that, with the exception of DV-1, I think that most of the companies who 'bought' an SCO license didn't even realize it. The way that they have things set up, people who buy other SCO software sometimes end up with a Linux License. Part of the reason why they're not identifying the companies who have purchased SCO Linux licenses may be that they don't want all of those companies to know what they've bought.

      Computerland, for example, ended up with a bunch of Linux licenses as a reault of a (supp

  • by afxgrin (208686) <nboli@cog e c o .ca> on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:22AM (#10951652) Homepage
    ...that there is AT LEAST 20 to 30 morons around the world.

    Congrats SCO for convincing a bunch of PHBs that they need to pay you for nothing.
    • Or that SCO offered some companies a $1 (or one pound) license so they'll be able to make the claim that some companies are jumping on the SCO bandwagon. SCO is all about PR these days.

      Paying $1 for this nonsense is a reasonable business decision.
  • by innerweb (721995) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:22AM (#10951655)
    ...There is a sucker born every minute.

    At the very least, holding out until it is legally decided would seem to be the prudent way to go (unless you somehow *know* that SCO is going to win).

    InnerWeb

  • If IBM wins... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by icejai (214906) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:22AM (#10951656)
    ... will all those who bought licenses get their money back?
    • Re:If IBM wins... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MoonFog (586818) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:32AM (#10951729)
      Wouldn't that depend on the contract? If these companies acknowledge that it really is SCO's code, SCO might have a strong case. Then again, they might be able to sue SCO for misleading them and getting their money back in that way. IANAL, so I don't know what rights these companies have, but unless they can prove that SCO deliberately mislead them into the deal it's not sure they'll get their money back.
    • by Greyfox (87712) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @09:17AM (#10952139) Homepage Journal
      The contract says "Nope!"

      The bluff by SCO is that you can buy a license now and pay not so much, or you can wait until after the lawsuit and if they win you'll be paying a lot more. If you fold now, you don't get your chips back if SCO loses. At this point we're pretty sure that IBM holds all the aces, but I bet that most of these sales are politically motivated or the people buying them aren't very good at poker either.

      I wouldn't be surprised if the comapnies in question are associates of the companies in the US that purchased licenses. It'd be just like SCO to count the Microsoft or Sun UK branch offices as new licenscees.

      Besides which, if SCO loses the next legal action you will see out of them will be a bankruptcy filing.

    • Your money back? From dealing with SCO?

      Somehow, this sinfest comic [sinfest.net] comes to mind when thinking about the licensing contract with SCO and the "your money back" concept...

  • *who* is important (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Alain Williams (2972) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:23AM (#10951660) Homepage
    I should imagine that it would not be too difficult to pursuade a couple of one man bands to buy SCO licences - especially if, quite coincidentally, SCO happened to buy some consultancy ...

    A 500 seat/licence company would be quite different.

  • Woo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ggeezz (100957) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:23AM (#10951661)
    You must be in bad shape if selling your first license in a country garners a headline. And 20 to 30 organisations worldwide? Is that supposed to lend merit to SCO's case. This just shows that there are still idiots out there, even at the corporate level.
  • I await the day (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:24AM (#10951671)
    I anxiously await the day when criminal charges are filed against SCO executives for all this deliberate deception and fraudulently mafioso style collection of extortion fees.

    For my own sanity I hope the day comes quickly, I can only stay entertained for so long.
  • by zakkie (170306) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:24AM (#10951675) Homepage
    Just wondering what options these organisations will have once SCO's case is dismissed? At what point is public deception so severe that criminal cases can be opened against executives who knowingly lie to the public?
  • by LucidBeast (601749) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:25AM (#10951678)
    I have this great bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell them.
  • Check the date (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Canyon Rat (103953) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:25AM (#10951681)
    According to the date on the linked article, this is from last August.
  • by Hinhule (811436) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:28AM (#10951700)
    Good morning inhabitors of planet earth, our scientists tell us that oxygen was licensed in our galaxy far far away a long long time ago. Please pay us one animal or spare bodypart, for us to experiment on, for each and every one of you who want to breathe.

    Sincerely,
    Sigma Celesti Omega Galaxy.
  • Is it legal? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pented_rage (556061) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:31AM (#10951726)
    Am I legally aloud to go around selling 'licenses to use' something that isn't currently and 'officially' mine? Say I deem SCO's products to have IP derived from me, can I go around selling my "SCO License" or can SCO sue me for such? (if so.. Linux should sue SCO for tainting their products/image)
  • Who are they? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tclark (140640) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:33AM (#10951752) Homepage
    It would be interesting to know who these org are organizations because:

    1. We might want to avoid them like the plague;
    2. We might want to help the poor bastards out - they clearly need help;
    3. We might all want to hit them up to buy our own "IP licenses". If they will buy this crap from SCO, they will buy it from anybody.

  • Two licenses? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by advocate_one (662832) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:34AM (#10951758)
    that'll be Microsoft UK and Microsoft Ireland then... so the total number of licenses sold will only be as many as there are Microsoft Offices overseas...

    Funny how they never give out just who the purchasers are isn't it...

  • by Nijika (525558) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:37AM (#10951779) Homepage Journal
    Is it me or is selling to 20 or 30 of anything in a year or so really, really lackluster? How much are these licenses that they can proudly announce having 20 or 30 customers? I mean even if they cost as much as a Mercedes CLK each I wouldn't get too hyped about it considering this is a publicly traded company.

    Depressing.

  • The SCO Group has such a poor reputation for telling the truth that I wouldn't be surprised to learn that both sales claims are pure fabrication.
    John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
  • As has been pointed out over on Groklaw, under the terms of the USL-BSDI agreement, USL basically couldn't go suing anyone for doing stuff with UNIX unkless the party being sued had licensed UNIX from them.

    Sooooo... by buying a SCO license, and thus establishing a contractual relationship with SCO, you basically put your name on the list of parties SCO could potentially file a lawsuit against.

    Splendid, isn't it? :)

  • FUD Apparent (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:42AM (#10951814) Homepage Journal
    "SCO's intellectual property that is apparently present"

    No, the SCO IP is only reportedly present. They'd have to present actual evidence for it to be apparent. Ironic, considering that all of the Linux source is apparent - it's the secret SCO diff's that aren't so visible.
  • by jaymzter (452402) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:52AM (#10951894) Homepage
    If you buy any SCO *nix product a _linux_ binary license is automatically included. This was a recent licensing change to make it look like SCO Source actually had a heartbeat. Someone probably bought Open Server and this is how SCO is playing it. For once, nothing to see here (presumably)
  • by Jaywalk (94910) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @08:55AM (#10951918) Homepage
    Remember the old Isuzu commercials? The spokesman would come out and make some outrageous claim ("Zero to sixty in one second."), but the caption underneath would say, "He's lying." Keep that little caption in mind whenever SCO issues a press release.

    Most of the time in the past when SCO announced that someone had "bought" a Linux license it turned out to be a deception. The most common ploy was to tack a Linux license onto a court settlement or a purchase of a Unixware license. The article quotes only SCO sources and the customers are not named, so don't expect this time to be different. Wait a few days and see if any customer names come up, then see what the customers have to say.

    I'd guess they'll say something like, "Linux license? What Linux license?"

  • Wonder (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sai Babu (827212) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @09:08AM (#10952053) Homepage


    1) If SCO includes the licensed material with the license. If I'm gonna buy a license, I want to be sure I'm running the code I licensed and not some miscreants cobbled hack that delivers the same functionality.

    2) How to merge this binary with my linux once I've got the linux compiled? If I'm gonna buy it, I want to use it. That way if my linux fscks up there is someone I can sue. SCO warrants the stuff, right?

    3) The market has any faith. Baystar appears to be cutting it's losses. I heard at the bar that baystar was finessed into keeping quiet through margin advantage on another investors bailout. IIRC Baystar was questioning SCO's claims on linux back in the summer (northern hemisphere).

  • by yeremein (678037) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @09:57AM (#10952539)
    My company recently outgrew our office in Orem, Utah, and we moved to one in Lindon. Right next to SCO's headquarters, in fact (we're not affiliated with SCO or the Canopy Group).

    Anyhow, it's a very cold morning. Want to know how cold? Well, I just saw Darl McBride walk into his office, and he had his hands in his own pockets.
  • by Linuxathome (242573) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @10:00AM (#10952562) Homepage Journal
    When you're dealing with companies with million dollar accounts and expenditures, it's an executive decision that's required for these expenses. I personally think that the executives are doing it to save their asses (no, not assets, asses): they all are covering their butts on the slim, slim chance that SCO might win. That way, the board won't fire them if SCO wins.

    But the downside is the the legions of Linux lovers will cry "foul" and "traitor" if they do. Hmmm...losing your job versus some people calling you l0s3r? What would you choose?
  • by kbnielsen (835429) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @10:01AM (#10952565)
    Finally it has been revealed... Heres a list of the licensees of all 20 licences sold by SCO.

    Microsoft Redmond
    Microsoft Cincinatti
    Microsoft Atlanta
    Microsoft Austin
    Microsoft Memphis
    Microsoft Phoenix
    Microsoft Pittsburg
    Microsoft UK
    Microsoft Australia
    Microsoft Latin America
    Microsoft Russia
    Microsoft Hong Kong
    Microsoft Latvia
    Microsoft Korea
    Microsoft China
    Microsoft Egypt
    Microsoft South Africa
    Microsoft Saudi Arabia
    Microsoft Chile
    Microsoft Canada

    Truly SCO has a worldwide spreading...
  • SCO licence (Score:5, Informative)

    by ajs318 (655362) <sd_resp2@earthshod. c o .uk> on Tuesday November 30 2004, @11:31AM (#10953415)
    Since SCO never purchased the copyright on UNIX, which remained with Novell;
    And Novell own SUSE, who have released a version of Linux under the GPL;
    then Novell {being the UNIX copyright holder} have given their blessing to Linux being GPL'ed.

    Since SCO do not hold the copyright on any UNIX code that may be present in Linux,
    and Novell have not authorised SCO to act on their behalf,
    then SCO are acting under false pretences.

    Doing something you weren't asked to do to somebody else's property is called trespass in this country, and is a civil offence for which legal aid is not available. It's a defence to trespass that you had good faith that the rightful owner would have wanted you to do what you did; however, there is no way SCO could have good faith that Novell wants them to collect licence money {which would belong to Novell, as the copyright holder, not SCO. Misappropriation of funds is a criminal offence}. Finally, since the GPL does not permit what SCO is doing, SCO are guilty of copyright violation to some extent or other. While there is next to no point in Novell pursuing for damages in the civil courts {they wouldn't have made any money so they can't have lost any money} Novell could still testify against SCO in any criminal copyright violation case.

    Did I mention that in the British civil courts, the loser almost always pays all costs; and a successful prosecution for a criminal offence doesn't bar you from instigating separate civil proceedings to recover damages?

    Bye-bye, SCO. Thanks for collecting so much evidence againstg yourselves.
  • by Animats (122034) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @12:51PM (#10954243) Homepage
    Today, Nov. 30th, is the deadline [uscourts.gov] for SCO to file their response to IBM's counterclaim that SCO is infringing IBM's copyrights. The one where they have to explain violating the GPL on Linux code, infringing IBM's copyrights in IBM's contributions to Linux. If SCO loses on that one (and it's a fast-tracked summary judgement motion), they are out of the Linux business and owe money to IBM. We're all looking forward to reading SCO's reply on that one.

    In other news, SCO just had a setback in their DaimlerChrysler case. SCO wants that case stayed until SCO vs IBM is decided. This is wierd, because SCO is the plaintiff in the DaimlerChrysler case - they started it. But they were losing, so they want it stayed. The judge just denied the stay, and the case will be heard in January. That's the case where SCO claims that because DaimlierCrysler used some UNIX-based product in the distant past, they can't use Linux now without paying SCO. This very weak claim is on its way to being laughed out of court.

    That's the real SCO news today.

  • by John Hasler (414242) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @12:57PM (#10954307)
    > ..SCO's intellectual property that is apparently
    > present in Linux distributions...

    It most certainly is not. Despite two court orders requiring them to do so The SCO Group (which is _not_ the Santa Cruz Operation) has failed to produce a single line of infringing code.
  • In the UK..... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mormop (415983) on Tuesday November 30 2004, @01:25PM (#10954613)
    There's a crime of "obtaining funds by deception" aimed at nailing fraudsters who use false information e.g. claiming property as theirs to extract money from people. Given that SCO have no proof of ownership over the disputed code I can't see how they can sell anyone anything.

    Should the case fall through I look forward to the arrest of the head of the UK arm of SCO and, should McBride, Sontag etc., ever land in the UK their arrests also. After all, conmen are among the lowest forms of scum.

  • No, no. They threaten companies with weak leadership into buying Linux licences. You know, SCO sends a stern letter in legalspeak warning they'll start a long drawn-out legal battle if they don't cough up the money pronto.

    SCO don't actually produce anything. They extort money from people. That is Darl's specialty. He's a corporate pirate. A scumbag.