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Novell Linux Desktop Released

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Nov 08, 2004 08:50 AM
from the well-isn't-that-special dept.
KingDaveRa writes "Novell have just released Novell Linux Desktop. Its based on SuSE Linux, but is cut down quite a bit to just include essential apps - perfect for a corporate environment. Novell claim to not be going directly after Windows, but rather pushing this as legacy Unix users. The Register has a take on this too."
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  • SuSE personal? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by julesh (229690) on Monday November 08 2004, @08:52AM (#10753771)
    I've got a system at home that I installed with the SuSE personal ISO image, and then upgraded by downloading SuSE professional RPMs to have all the useful stuff.

    Is this going to be the same? Or have they stopped you from doing this?
    • Re:SuSE personal? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This Novell Linux Desktop is to Red Hat Enterprise WS as the Personal Edition of SuSE is to Fedora (or the old line of Red Hat linux releases).

      They let you download a free trial for 30 days, after that software update support ends unless you buy a license.
      • Figures. I knew they'd killed SuSE personal for a reason: they wanted to make money off it and knew they couldn't with the old model.
        • Re:SuSE personal? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by AKnightCowboy (608632) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:34AM (#10754054)
          So that explains why Red Hat libraries are old crap, and we can't compile anything unless we almost rebuild the entire OS from scratch. Cos they want to lock us in a pay-per-update license.

          I like RHEL because I don't have to worry about upgrading every 12 months to remain current. It's a stable base for software vendors to aim for that will be good for years. Security patches are backported to prevent version conflicts. Red Hat finally started moving in the right direction with RHEL, although it still needs polishing (needs ReiserFS in the default kernels instead of just ext3 IMHO).

          Personally I'll continue to just use Debian, but for enterprise servers, RHEL is a good compromise.

          • And it's good for Students who run their own servers too, since you can get one of the various RHEL editions for $25 or $50 a year. Pretty good for an ultra stable codebase with prompt security updates and backports of necessary features for most hardware, etc.
    • Re:SuSE personal? (Score:5, Informative)

      by DeckerEgo (520694) on Monday November 08 2004, @10:59AM (#10754930) Homepage
      I've actually noticed that RPM and ISO releases have been released faster with Novell than when SuSE was operating alone. Development and beta RPMs seem to be posted faster, and ISOs (which were never released under a standalone SuSE) are released for their personal product line.

      A lot of people seem to get the Personal edition via ISOs or over-the-counter, then point YaST2 to the FTP site where they can install the remainder of the RPMs.

      YaST2 treats FTP sites the same as DVD or CD installations as well, so adding/removing/updating RPMs via FTP uses the exact same interface and means as a local media installation. Very nice.

      Plus you can hook YaST2 into unsupported releases and get the latest SuSE-created KDE, Gnome and other packages.
          • Re:SuSE personal? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by julesh (229690) on Monday November 08 2004, @12:37PM (#10756136)
            Next time you're quoting me, don't cut out context just because it doesn't support your point. The "more than enough money" section you quote was about what they see from me. I don't see why _I_ need to support them any more than I already do.

            And putting up with me downloading free copies of their distribution is one of the payments they make for the fact that THEY DISTRIBUTE CODE I WROTE.

            In addition to this, SuSE had somewhere in the region of $500 directly because of me making recommendations to my clients over the last 2 years.

            And, despite all of this, you're calling ME a freeloader? Go and get a life.
  • by Silwenae (514138) * on Monday November 08 2004, @08:57AM (#10753797) Homepage
    Luis Villa's blog [tieguy.org] has some more interesting information and links as well. (He's a Novell, former Ximian guy).

    You can download an "eval" copy [novell.com], after some registration, it's 3 ISO files, but is the full version according to Luis.

    Novell has also released the source [novell.com].

    Unfortunately, it's still Gnome 2.6 and some updated KDE stuff, but one of the most interesting things built in is Novell's new iFolder [novell.com], an interesting way to share folders remotely, including over different OS's.

    It's based on Suse 9.1, but it will be interesting to see what changes the Ximian guys have added to it. The timing seems a bit weird though as Suse 9.2 just came out. Novell's strategy will be something to watch, to see how they position Suse Server, Suse 9.2 and Novell Linux between homes and offices.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Unfortunately this is iFolder 2.x, the same one that has been available for quite some time.

      iFolder 3, the p2p one built on mono, the one that looks /really/ cool, is still a ways from being complete. :(
  • There should be more versions of the kernels and so on, with almost no packages to download of all the *nixes, those large ISOs are a big turn off.
    • Re:Cut down (Score:4, Informative)

      by Timesprout (579035) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:12AM (#10753906)
      I cant believe more distros dont do this. Ubuntu do it quite well. Its a one CD install which is the way it should be, not download 3 or 4 to get a piece here and a piece there. Ubuntu gives you a nicely polished install with enough to satisfy most people and almost everything works out of the box.

      Word of warning though Ubuntu may not be the best option for dual boots on Dell Laptops (more correctly it seems to be the debian installer). It nuked my win2000 install on one and refuses to see any partitions on the other and will only accept the whole device.
      • Re:Cut down (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 08 2004, @09:23AM (#10753975)
        It nuked my win2000 install on one
        Hey, it took them a long time to implement that feature, and now you talk about it like it's a bug.
      • Re:Cut down (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Jugalator (259273) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:25AM (#10753989) Journal
        Word of warning though Ubuntu may not be the best option for dual boots on Dell Laptops (more correctly it seems to be the debian installer). It nuked my win2000 install on one and refuses to see any partitions on the other and will only accept the whole device.

        Hmm, what does Dell have to do with this? :-/

        Just curious, since it sounds like a nice distro I'd be interested in. Also looking for 1 CD stuff; they certainly don't need to have many more apps included than Windows XP... I still have a choice if I want to use some less used tools, it's called Internet. :-P

        I'd rather see coders spending time making extraordinary good and easy installers and uninstallers for said downloadable apps instead of looking how to include as much as possible on the CD. Isn't Internet pretty common by now, anyway? And no, Gentoo is probably not the distro for me since I'm not sure it's for amateurs. I'm not even looking for a processor-optimized distro, although it would be a nice bonus of course.

        I never got the idea with mega-sized Linux distros. "Choice" doesn't necessarily have to mean "cram stuff into a lot of CD's to confuse a user". You have software choice even if you don't do this, right?
        • "It nuked my win2000 install on one and refuses to see any partitions on the other and will only accept the whole device."

          That is un-fucking-believably lame.

          How exactly is that lame? In a corporate environment that has a heavy windows install base, dual-booting is a reality. Between web apps that only run on IE and home-grown apps that only run on windows, I'll never be able to do my job on a linux only machine. For someone like me my choices are pretty much limited to dual boot and VM.

          I'm not averse

    • Why don't you just crawl back into your weenie box. Yeah, that is what my boss asks for consistently in a desktop OS, more Kernels!
  • Posting from... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Hanul (533254) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:01AM (#10753823) Homepage
    ... freshly installed evaluation copy of Novell Linux Desktop 9. Well, nice startup screen, nice Ns everywhere.

    Uhm, and Firefox came with Slashdot already bookmarked.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 08 2004, @09:20AM (#10753959)
      Uhm, and Firefox came with Slashdot already bookmarked

      So it is an unproductivity suite?
      And they call it perfect for corporate environment?
      I think thar Balmer was right about Linux TCO. We will stick with windows.
    • by Koyaanisqatsi (581196) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:22AM (#10753969)
      1: perfect for a corporate environment

      2: and Firefox came with Slashdot already bookmarked.

      Anyone else see the irony here? :-))
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 08 2004, @09:03AM (#10753835)
    Yes, it costs money. $59 USD. There IS an evaluation version available for free. From their site:

    NOTE: The only limitation of this evaluation software is the duration you will have free access update.novell.com. Should you choose to license Novell Linux Desktop, you will be provided with a new registration code, which you can easily update in your desktop in order to re-enable access to update.novell.com for product patches and updates.
  • Novell claim to not be going directly after Windows

    Yeah, from the screenshots, it looks an awfully lot like a hybrid between Windows, MacOS, and MacOSX.
  • So, it has KDE? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 10Ghz (453478) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:06AM (#10753855)
    I wonder what that means to those folks who claimed that "Novell is placing their bets on Gnome! KDE is going down!". Open mouth, insert foot, eh?

    Well, the people who made those claims seemed quite often to be connected to Ximian... Either they were astroturfing/spreading FUD, or they didn't know what their company was doing.
    • I am a true Gnome lover, and of course hope that Novell will go for Gnome in the long run.

      BUT, Gnome and KDE need each other in order to improve, just like Linux need MacOSX and Windows.

      Gnome and KDE steal idea from each other, and often improve them in someway.

      Think if we only had Mozilla and IE. Oprea invented tabbed browsing, and the idea to have search bar in the toolbar among MANY other neat features, that FireFox now have.

    • Ximian people have never claimed that KDE was going away. That was the conclusion of others (less well informed).

      This offering from Novell however seems to default to GNOME but includes KDE, unlike SuSE which defaults to KDE.

      The flash animation shows off GNOME, and their OpenOffice.org-version is GNOMEified, with GNOME-icons and the new GNOME file-selector.

      Their main applications are a gnomified OpenOffice.org, Evolution (gnome), and Mozilla Firefox (uses gtk widgets), GAIM (gtk/gnome), Red Carpet and Ya
    • Yes, it has KDE. Take a look at the application list [novell.com] that NDL supports. How many of them are QT based and how many of them are GTK based? I'll let you do the math for yourself, and come to your own conclusions.

      My conclusion: this is a Gnome-centric distribution. Yes, you can run KDE on this distro, but it makes as much sense as running KDE on Red Hat or Gnome on SuSE.
      • I fail to see how Gnome is more "business-friendly" than KDE is. I really do.
        • Re:So, it has KDE? (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          I fail to see how Gnome is more "business-friendly" than KDE is.

          If you ever have to support a group of more than 50 users in a corporate environemnt, then you should be able to see how GNOME is more business-friendly than KDE. It is easier to set global policies in GNOME than in KDE, for example. Also, the fact that only the basic configuration options are available by default (the other ones requiring some knowledge of the configuration editor) means that most users stick to the basic options instead

  • by MrCranky (187240) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:06AM (#10753859) Homepage
    not the consumer version. This version is for use in big business by general knowledge workers. It's features are maintainability and stability of pachages, not end-user featuritis. In other words, it's for corporate desktop drones. It's designed to work best in a corporate environment, of course complementing Novell's upcoming Open Enterprise Server. It's timed to match the upcoming release of that product.

    SUSE Linux 9.2 Pro is the geek version, for home and mobile users mostly.
    • A trim desktop for the corporate drone is exactly what the market needs. Sun is sort of trying to do it with JDS, but they're selling it as one desktop for every kind of corporate user. The lean desktop with only necessary packages that's easily maintainable is what a lot of companies need if they're going to slowly switch away from Microsoft. It eases headaches and drastically cuts administrative costs. I hope Novell is very smart in the way they market it.
      • by cduffy (652) <charles+slashdot@dyfis.net> on Monday November 08 2004, @10:56AM (#10754901)
        I hope Novell is very smart in the way they market it.

        Yup, they are -- if not marketing, at least sales.

        We're probably going to switch to it at my workplace -- we're certainly going Novell's SLES9 on the servers we ship, as soon as I finish handling the technical headaches involved with getting off of RHEL3. (For the workstations, they're currently a very aging, heavily customized RH9 environment -- no longer supported, so we're moving them over too).

        And why? Besides the price point, and the goodies SLES9 comes with that RHEL3 doesn't, there's one huge advantage Novell has:

        Their "sales staff" has technical people too, and they're helpful and available. We were feeding money into Red Hat, and getting practically nothing back by way of support. Novell, on the other hand, is giving us all kinds of support (and access to goodies like the NLD beta) -- and we haven't even paid them yet!

        I have no doubt that Red Hat would do the same thing for a big enough shop -- but right now we're a small, cash-impacted startup. The level of support they've given us already shows an impressive level of dedication. We're impressed, anyhow.

        (The first time they visited us, they brought along one employee who was formerly Ximian, one who was formerly SuSE, and one who was a Noveller all along. I took that as Good Tidings as to their directional change, as well).
      • It's also exactly what the average home user needs. The average user doesn't need every server and every compiler known to man, and shouldn't have to decide whether to install stuff they have no knowledge of and aren't likely to ever care about. And it's that much less stuff to worry about securing against the big bad outside world.

        When and if these home users DO care, they can always switch to a full-featured disty.

        And hopefully this will make it a bit more average-hardware friendly. TCO goes out the win
  • Age Old (Score:5, Insightful)

    by z0ink (572154) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:08AM (#10753876)
    Perhaps Novell can help in providing more legitimacy toward linux desktops to the Corporate World. It's not that linux desktops geared toward corporations haven't been around, but more the lack of a Name Brand company to trust purchasing it from. I'm being hopeful, but any amount this release can cut into Microsoft's market share is good for us all.
  • by HangingChad (677530) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:08AM (#10753883) Homepage
    The Register said it would retail for $50.00. That's a good entry price point, very competitive. Especially considering it comes bundled with OpenOffice and Evolution with the Exchange connector.

    Unless I'm overlooking something that's a very attractive package. Anxious to see how it sells. If this takes off it's going to hit MSFT's pricing model fairly hard.

  • Mirror? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Snuden (252397) <morten@@@lightworkings...dk> on Monday November 08 2004, @09:16AM (#10753934) Homepage
    Does anyone have a mirror or a bittorrent tracker? The site was sort of okay before 12:00 GMT+1 but now it's rather dead...
  • Looks like they're going to support GAIM. With the 'Corporate' backing of the project is it likely that the vendors (AIM, YAHOO, etc) will work with Novell/GAIM on modules? I see this becomming another X type setup where the modules are closed source but the client open. Mixed feelings on that one. On the one hand there's the "Everything Needs To Be Open" camp, but to some extent a little give in some areas can help drive adoption (i.e. a closed Linux solution is better than no Linux solution) in some ar
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 08 2004, @09:41AM (#10754112)
    The corporate world started way back when with Windows PCs and Microsoft Office. Any Unix desktops are specialized applications, such as Graphics Design and Virtual Simulations (Unigraphics, HP-UX, SGI, IBM AIX.) They pay for these systems (in the 10 thousands each) because they are good at what they do and there is a company that stands behind them. If it weren't for these systems, everything would be running MS Windows. And it would be safe to say, any company running Macs will not migrate to Linux, because Macs are now more affordable (as compared to their Unix counterparts,) Unix based, and are already in niche markets.

    So I would say, if they are going after corporate desktops, they are going after MS Windows, because this is where the PC is. Linux will also allow better integration with existing and vested Unix and Mac systems.

    No, they are going after MS Windows. Their "not-going-after-Windows" statement is for investors and people who manage tech, but not into tech and understanding tech from the ground level, so as not to still certains waters that Microsoft is monitoring.
    • by Jason Earl (1894) on Monday November 08 2004, @11:18AM (#10755193) Homepage

      Novell is going after the "low hanging fruit" in much the same way that Red Hat's biggest efforts to date have been in convincing Solaris customers to switch to Linux. What's the sense in attacking Microsoft outright when you can make more money somewhere else.

      The folks at Novell know that over the long haul an inexpensive, secure, and stable no-frills desktop is going to make a market for itself just about everywhere. However, Novell is absolutely right in pointing out that for right now the obvious application is in locations where a minimal set of applications is needed.

      To give you an example, I used to work in a french fry factory. The factory had about 90 PCs, but less than 20 of these PCs were used by office workers. The rest of the PCs were out in the plant and were used mostly to let people out on the floor view data. The machines out on the plant floor could easily have been running Linux, and it would have saved the company a substantial sum of money.

      Novell knows that there are lots of businesses like that french fry plant, and they also know that in the long run once these locations get a little bit of experience with Linux clients that essentially run themselves that the IT folks are going to start looking at ways to migrate the remaining office workers to Linux. More importantly, when they buy or build new applications they will be far more likely to create the applications in a way that is portable to Linux.

      Which brings us to the second part of Novell's master plan. Novell plans to use Mono to entice existing .NET developers into creating cross-platform applications.

  • So, will there be an upgrade for those of us using Ximian Desktop 2? Not sure if I want to install yet another distro.
    • I think this is a much bigger step than what it is being given credit for at first glance. It looks like the default desktop environment is Gnome instead of KDE. I, for one, am extremely happy to see that.
    • Re:Hmm..Novell (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jav1231 (539129) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:00AM (#10753818)
      It may not be. One problem plaguing distro's is that they throw so much into the distro that QA is sacrificed. This is true for SuSE as well. I've been using SuSE for about a year now and see many of the same issue I saw with RHat. There are menuitems that don't work, configurations that won't take, and clutter. A slimmer desktop might be in order. I've said for years that a distro company would do well to have a group sit down and actually test each feature and app that they include on a distro but evidently few do. Maybe someone has with Novell Linux and this is the result. We can hope!
      • Re:Hmm..Novell (Score:5, Informative)

        by julesh (229690) on Monday November 08 2004, @09:06AM (#10753860)
        The last version of SuSE had a "personal" edition, which was 1 CD including source. Very cut down. Had OO.org, Firefox + Thunderbird, KDE but no GNOME, very limited dev tools, but adequate for web browsing & basic office work, which is what I assume this is aimed at.
      • I also recently got the downloadable personal ISO of SuSE just to see what a "polished" commercial distribution looked like. For the most part, I was very impressed. However, I have been seeing some of the issues you mention. The Kmenu editor wasn't quite working right, but downloading some fresh kde libraries seems to have fixed that. I also can't set passwordless login for my children (you know, the "no password required for" checkboxes under the convenience tab). As it stands right now, I've just de
    • Yep, using pam_auth_ncpfs to get a Windows desktop to login to a Novell server would be crazy amounts of work. Fortunatly, they have this thing called the "Novell Client" which is for windows. It takes all of about 5 minutes to install. Windows 3.11, Windows 95, and all later versions, are specificlly built to accept network client drivers, like say, those from Novell.

      Or do you mean it is crazy amounts of work for Novell to write a widows client? I doubt it. For Windows, Novell currently has two clients, one for 95/98 and one for NT/2000/XP. The "log into the server" part is a minor component, trivial in comparision to every thing else it does, ZENWorks integration for one.

      And this is not Windows NT or Netware 3.12 days. You login to the network not into a server.

    • by idesofmarch (730937) on Monday November 08 2004, @10:19AM (#10754507)
      Windows is so not network enabled it isn't well suited to be in a network? Are you stark raving looney? While you may have many legitimate criticisms of Windows, this surely is not one of them.

      While not preinstalled, Windows has come with a Client for Netware Networks for as long as I can remember. I know that Novell recommends its client, but I have not had any issues with the MS client whenever I have used it.

      Anyway, Novell was king of the network hill for a good while. It should have leveraged this position while it had it to put out its own desktop back then. It will be an uphill battle now.