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Television Media Software Hardware Linux

Telly MC2100, a Linux-based PVR/Media Center 120

Posted by michael from the what's-on-the-telly? dept.
An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices has published an article about the Telly MC1200, a new convergent PVR/mediaplayer made by Interact-TV. The Linux-based device supports up to three internal hard drives on which it can store and manage libraries of digital music, photos, and DVDs/video. It can also burn CDs and save DVDs to local mpeg (DivX?) files, and it can pause and record live TV in TiVO-like fashion. The device is based on a 1.2GHz VIA C3 processor and has 256MB of PC2100 DDR SDRAM memory, expandable to 1GB."
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Telly MC2100, a Linux-based PVR/Media Center More

Telly MC2100, a Linux-based PVR/Media Center

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  • You may also want to see this.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by questforme ( 542772 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:13AM (#9966170) Homepage
    Wired Magazine PVR Test [wired.com]

    • Re:You may also want to see this.... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by saden1 ( 581102 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @05:15AM (#9966292)
      Is it just me or is this device is lacking in CPU horse power? Is anything under 2GHz going to cut it as far is encoding/decoding? It's in the right direction as far as capability although not in price.

      • Re:You may also want to see this.... (Score:5, Informative)

        by maharg ( 182366 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @05:55AM (#9966352) Homepage Journal
        As long as it's just encoding, it should be fine. MPEG-2 hardware version is on the way - see http://www.interact-tv.com/itvfaq/index.php?sid=92 60&aktion=artikel&rubrik=007&id=81&lang=en / [interact-tv.com]
        • Huh ? The slashdot url tag managed the url !
          It shouldn't have a trailing slash -

          http://www.interact-tv.com/itvfaq/index.php?sid= 92 60&aktion=artikel&rubrik=007&id=81&lang=en
          • doh! I can't believe they are using a software based encoder on an 800 dollar box... an oem hardware based encoder is really cheap, and can provide excellent quality, with lower CPU requirements.

            I *ASSumed* they were using hardware encoding...

            They might be asking a lot of that little VIA cpu.

            e.
            • No kidding. My $70 Tivo has more features than this thing.

              Then again, these articles seem to be for Linux zealots who can't afford the $4.99/mo for Tivo. :P
              • Can TIVo play dvix over the network? If the answer is no, Tivo is useless!!!!!!
                • So I can sit at my PC to watch television? You have got to be kidding. Do you really want to archive a bunch of tv shows which will be broadcast over and over for the next 10-15 years? Go ahead, but it is a waste of resources. Get a Tivo and just record them whenever they come on again. Trust me, after the first 1-2 views you'll be tired of them and want 'em gone.

                  Anyway, there is no need to stream. I bought a 35 hour Tivo for $70, pulled a spare 120 gig drive out of my file server, and after a few hours of
        • ...when are we going to see inexpensive MPEG encoder chips becoming standard on PCs? I'd love to have hardware encoding in my PC that would let me turn an hour of DV-AVI into MPEG2 in 20 minutes, but I could live with something that did it even in real time.

          The hardware can't be that expensive given that it shows up in $300 set-top boxes. You can buy cards that do this (and usually a bunch of other things), but they're almost always really expensive.

          Is it a licensing thing? Even that doesn't add up giv
      • The first generation TiVo was only like a 33mhz RISC processor... and it can encode and decode video fine because of dedicated hardware based encoder and decoder chip(s) (as opposed to doing it on the fly in software which would require more hefty cpu)

        Same principle applies here.

        Heck I've got a VIA 1ghz PVR sitting right next to me... I've got a hardware based encoder card (hauppauge 350 - which also has a hardware decoder) and has a marginal mpeg hardware decoder "accelerator" built in that helps the so
      • Is anything under 2GHz going to cut it as far is encoding/decoding?

        I do that every day on a Pentium III-866 without any problems.

        In fact I can easily record 2 shows and playback 1 at the same time without trouble.

        Hell, I have a P1-233 that will play a mpeg2 at full resolution with only 5% processor load.

        It's called getting the right hardware. PVR-250 or other hardware encode cards, and a video card with hardware decode.

        only fools try to do it in software only.
  • from the more-money-than-brains dept.

    I bought one. My money, nahh, company money for R&D.
    Buy one here and rip it to shreds so you can learn all about it!
    http://store.interact-tv.com/store/product_info.ph p?products_id=72 [interact-tv.com]

    I'll post my review sometime.

  • Starts at 800$US! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AlexMidn1ght ( 705563 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:16AM (#9966181)
    For that much money, I'd rather build one myself.

    +210$ for 250GB instead of 80GB
    +76$ for WiFi
    +60$ for a CD burner

    ouch!

  • Interesting. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    But obviously for someone who already assembles their own mini-ITX systems the price point isn't going to perk much interest.
    Naturally not everyone puts together their own systems, but a hell of a lot of those who don't know someone who will do so for a bong hit, a few beers or a bat of the eyelash or whatever.
    So it's cool to see people out there trying and saying it's time for this kind of device, but I bet most people on /. would be more likely to be interested in good prices on mini-ATX boards

  • In a word: WOW! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dmayle ( 200765 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:19AM (#9966188) Homepage Journal
    Talk about PVR done right. I've been a big fan of Tivo, and if I hadn't moved out of Tivo land (USA), you wouldn't be able to pry mine from my cold, dead hands, but this is very tantalizing. It doesn't put restrictions on you, instead trusting you to do what you should. You can put your DVDs to the hard drive so you have a DVD jukebox, it's based on open source, and there's a developer version. (Though I must admit, I wish their program was OS, I think there's room for both types of software.) Hell, if nothing else, just buying the device and installing MythTV on it would work, if you wished. The whole built-in webserver, CD-ripping capabilities, and it starts at $800! I'm going to send them an email to see if it works with PAL tuners...

  • IR keyboard (Score:5, Informative)

    by monkeyfamily ( 161555 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:21AM (#9966191) Homepage
    Ewww.. it comes with an infared keyboard - these suck in my experience. They skip keypresses often enough to make them useless for typing anything of length. I use mine as a remote control because I haven't bothered to get a LIRC remote yet, but it seems like you'd need one or the other. If you want wireless typing, you've gotta go with rf.

    • Re:IR keyboard (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 )
      depends on the environment and on the keyboard model/maker obviously.

      it's possible to get it working pretty well.

      but true, rf is the king(but needs pairing, while being a short process it still takes time).

    • Re:IR keyboard (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Stevyn ( 691306 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @08:28AM (#9966617)
      Yeah, but the obvious alternative is wired, which is going to be a messy pain in the ass in the family room. Maybe there is an RF alternative, but that would most likely be more expensive and not worth the added cost.
      • There are a couple alternatives to IR keyboards (which have to be in line of sight of the receiver, which is why they tend to miss keystrokes). You could get a bluetooth keyboard if their system supported it, or even the wireless keyboards and mice from Logitech, which use a radio to transmit the information. I have one of the logitech keyboards, and I can go around the corner of the room and I can still type without problems (except for the problem of not seeing the screen :).

        They aren't that expensive ei
      • I use an RF keyboard for my HTPC setup. It workes reasonably well, range could use about another 5' but overall, I have very few problems. (logitech keyboard/mouse wireless combo)

  • Opensorce? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:27AM (#9966204)
    Where's the source code for public download then? (or at least, some parts of it)

    • Why should they publish it?

  • copying DVDs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bjpirt ( 251795 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @04:36AM (#9966220)
    I would imagine that the saving DVDs to local files feature would just keep the streams as MPEG 2 otherwise, on this CPU, the rip to divx would take quite some time. Of course from there you could convert it in the background.

    • Re:copying DVDs (Score:3, Informative)

      by gabebear ( 251933 )
      MythTV actually handles this gracefully with a background transcoder, it eats basically only eats CPU time that would be idle and on these kind of machines that can be a lot.
  • I can't find it in the article or on Interact's website. I hope they use XMLTV (because then at last, there'd be a PVR I'd consider buying).

  • Augh! Fans in a living room device? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hcdejong ( 561314 ) <hobbes@nOspam.xmsnet.nl> on Saturday August 14, 2004 @05:01AM (#9966267)
    That blows. Considering the fact that this thing will be on 24/7, it should be absolutely silent rather than 'quiet'. Can I use the software on this machine [hush-technologies.net], instead?
    • For a lot of people, I don't think it matters that much. For one, the device will be at least ten feet away. I bet the road noise of passing cars is higher. The noise of children, the noise of the refrigerator, furnace, etc are probably all louder.
      • Actually, it does matter. Recently, my central heating furnace was replaced. The old one contained a fan that was on 24/7. It's 10 m away, and it certainly wasn't loud, but it did get annoying, esp. in the evening when all else was quiet. The new CH switches its fan off when it's not needed, and I'm surprised by the difference it makes. Finally I can have absolute silence if I want it.
        I've noticed this in other situations as well. The AC at the office, for example. It's quiet enough that you don't even regi
    • I agree. Passive cooling is hell, but they should do like apple and put a shitload of slow moving(silent) fans in there. My G5 (also my PVR/TV/DVD) is 100% silent and it makes a whole lot more heat than this thing.

  • Processor info is wrong/misleading. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kujah ( 630784 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @05:05AM (#9966270) Homepage
    There is no such thing as a 1.2ghz via c3 processor. However, there is such a thing as a VIA Cyrix 1.2 GigaPRO. It is clocked at 800mhz. Here's the info on it (I just so happen to be running a box with one of these):
    shorty dev # cat /proc/cpuinfo
    processor : 0
    vendor_id : CentaurHauls
    cpu family : 6
    model : 7
    model name : VIA Samuel 2
    stepping : 3
    cpu MHz : 800.148
    cache size : 64 KB
    fdiv_bug : no
    hlt_bug : no
    f00f_bug : no
    coma_bug : no
    fpu : yes
    fpu_exception : yes
    cpuid level : 1
    wp : yes
    flags : fpu de tsc msr cx8 mtrr pge mmx 3dnow
    bogomips : 1572.86

  • Saving DVDs.... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Airw0lf ( 795770 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @05:09AM (#9966276)
    It can also burn CDs and save DVDs to local mpeg (DivX?) files

    Having skimmed through the article, I can't find any mention of exactly how this PVR backs up DVDs. However, I would almost certainly rule out DivX backups for a couple of reasons:

    1. Encode time - You don't want users sitting around waiting for encoding to complete. Even if this is done in the background it will likely degrade the PVR's performance and reduce the picture quality of the DVD being backed up.
    2. DeCSS - converting to another format will require circumventing protection on the disc. This will create some iffy legal issues, as it makes it easier (in theory) to exchange DVD content.
    3. The DivX codec itself requires a license does it not? It might be free for personal use, but certainly not for a commercial app. If any compression is going on, it will probably be to an open format such as XviD.

    I think that the VOB files on the DVD are simply saved to hard disk, or maybe the player makes an image of the whole DVD. The PVR can then easily playback the DVD as per normal, except that it is now running off the hard disk.

    • Re:Saving DVDs.... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You can just copy files from a DVD and have them work.

      DVDcss is aviable if you pay the fees.

      The Libavcodec from ffmepg is superior (faster + better results) to any version of dvix or xivd, I would use that instead.

      All of this is very simple, I've done it myself using command line and scripts using mencoder. However I've moved on to the more sophisticated setup provided by Mythtv.

      All in all the limitations you expressed are easily overcome by the most basic Linux setup.

      The Via proccessor seems slow, but

    • Re:Saving DVDs.... (Score:2, Informative)

      by iive ( 721743 )

      I think that the VOB files on the DVD are simply saved to hard disk, or maybe the player makes an image of the whole DVD. The PVR can then easily playback the DVD as per normal, except that it is now running off the hard disk.

      If you know the answer why do you ask? ;) About the rest of the questions. 1. Encode time - The CPU is just horribly slow. It will take ages to recompress it. And there is no sense to do it. The quality will degradete. 2. DeCSS - Probably you have missed that MPlayer can play VOB's

    • 1. That's why you do it as a background process. After the data is pulled from the disc, you can convert to MPEG4 in the background. (ala MythTV)

      2. Not all disk require it.

      3. Use xvid. it looks better anyway

    • IIRC, MPAA approved codecs won't play encrypted images and if they use an OSS player, they're already violating the DMCA, so why not go all the way and re-encode to XviD (except for the time problem, of course).
    • " Even if this is done in the background it will likely degrade the PVR's performance and reduce the picture quality of the DVD being backed up."

      Um, no, it won't reduce the picture quality of the DVD being backed up. You might be thinking of video the thing might be trying to capture and encode in real time. That could be affected, but that's more of a prioritization issue really. Pause or slow the encode and the capture will go just fine.

      I'm not arguing with your whole post, just wanted to clarify th
    • The DivX codec itself requires a license does it not? [...] If any compression is going on, it will probably be to an open format such as XviD.

      Saving a DVD to disk requires one as well. Currently there is only one product on the market that is legally allowed to do so.

      http://www.kaleidescape.com/ [kaleidescape.com]

      The Kaleidescape is an enormously overpriced beast ($20k+ for the lowest end model). It's so controversial that the DVD consortium (those diefied few who deign to control such lofty things as DVD technology

  • Um.. right.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Xyl3ne ( 802919 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @05:55AM (#9966351)
    The article at Linux Devices http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4917820524.html says it uses a 1200mhz (1.2ghz) VIA C3 CPU, yet the offical site says "VIA C3 933MHz x86 Processor". If thats not dodgy, I don't know what is.

  • MC1000 Was Still A Work In Progress (Score:3, Informative)

    by verrol ( 43973 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @06:47AM (#9966422) Homepage Journal
    The guys at Interact-TV are great. Their device has a lot of potential. Not only that, but when I had issues, they were more than happy to address them.

    I bought the MC1000 last year November. I was so excited to get it. I am not surprised that the Wired [wired.com] article said the Telly was buggy. I eventually had to return mine. I really wanted this to work, and it kind of. But it crashed so often and didn't do what it was suppose to well. At first, it didn't record, rip CDs, didn't play DVDs as it should, tune in some channels, and a few other minor things. I returned it for some work and they fixed many of those problems. When I got it back, it still didn't rip cds properly. There were gaps in the audio, the names for album and song title were corrupt.

    There were several minor annoyances that I just got tired of this thing not working as it should. I didn't mind that it wasn't super quiet, I knew it was computer and not the best. I think the price was fair for no monthly fee and basically having an open platform and open source. I think they will or could make a really good device if they just make it work without crashing and simply do what it is suppose to. If it is going to rip CDs, well I want to know when I put a CD in it will rip.

    Even thought I returned the one I bought last year, I am still monitoring their product releases to see when they might have something solid for me.

  • Expansion (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MrNonchalant ( 767683 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @07:06AM (#9966451)
    What's most interesting to me is the single PCI expansion slot and open source OS. Means this thing is open to some serious customization. For instance, I could potentially hook this up to my wifi network.
  • ...isn't everything. Sure, they're trying to attempt to be a standard now, but I find the non-adware/spyware open-source Xvid to be far superior in nearly every way. And it plays Divx now so you don't have to have to sign your soul away to Claria in order to watch Divx.

    Sorry to go slightly offtopic but although Divx is probably more well-known and more downloaded, Xvid seems to me to be the better codec (especially if your privacy matters to you).

    • You're exactly right. Xvid is the best codec I've ever seen. If used properly, you can get a dvd down to 700 mb at pretty good quality. Put that video on a television and you'll have trouble noticing the difference. A lot of other codecs are way to artifacted when compressed to 700 mb.
  • The article mentions XUL (XML user-interface language), is that anything like Mozilla's XUL? Mozilla Foundation seems to be quite protective of its acronyms... [easyconnect.fr]
  • No PAL yet? I thought NTSC and PAL were easily provided for no extra cost on new TV/Video boxes these days. Its only a decoder, right?

  • No Digital Coax Out?? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by tlh1005 ( 541240 )
    At first I thought it didn't have one but i read more and found out it's optional. How in the hell do you have digital audio out as an "Option", especially when the thing costs $800? I know these units serve more purpose than Tivo but the Cable/Sat industry wins here if you can rent from them. I pay $7 a month for PVR/DVR. Let's say they upgrade the boxes every 2 years. It would take 11 years for the cost of renting to equal the cost of buying this thing. I will have traded for updated boxes 5 times b
    • I can't see where it says optional digital out...

      But on most via m10k series mobo's, which I believe they are using here... you can EITHER have composite video out via the RCA jack OR SPDIF digital audio out. hence they used the term "optional" as they must set the jumper at the factory for you =)

      regarding the cost of ownership... not sure what to tell you. The Telly MC2100 might not be the answer (if they'd even out their software a little from what I understand they could have a solid hight end boutiqu
      • Thanks for clarrifying. It is SPDIF. I saw "optional" on the order form. Whenever I see this word it instantly leads me to believe more $$. I like expandability and tinkering myself but the amount of that provided by this deviceisn't worth $800 (for me). I can see people buying into it but I think there are much better options and devices currently available. If I didn't like any of those I'd build my own before paying $800 for this.
        • heh, I agree whole heartedly... unless there software is a knock out (in this case better than mythtv/freevo)...

          I've built a comprable system for much cheaper. So the value must be in that it works out of the box, or the software is awesome... (I guess 1 out of 2 aint bad?)...

          *shrug* maybe this is something more for the guys on MTV "Cribs"... i.e. "there's my x-box, playstation 2, and my Telly MC21000..."

          e.

  • Save your Money! They are just selling a prototype (Score:5, Informative)

    by siasl ( 541853 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @08:28AM (#9966615)
    It's a good trick if you can do it. But at least the MC1000 (which I have) is not a finished product. 3.0 version of OS is still not available. Was due in Feb/04 1. ) Non selectable recording resolution. Default is poor and pixilated. 2 No Live TV pause function. Minimal expectation in anything calling itself a DVR/PVR. 3 Incomplete Web Interface. Web interface does not allow selecting programs to record. Why bother with a Web interface if you have to go to the Telly app to actually program the thing. 4.)No way to use Firewire input for DV. All this hardware, and no software to control it. At least it is not documented 5.) Have to drop into linux to rename video files input from external sources. Can\'t rename files in video library easily. 6.) Awkward input of audio MP3 files. Many won't load into library since they do not meet some "undocumented" metadata standard. 7.) Video recordings over 2G in size can't be downloaded from the Web interface. Get Permission denied error. 8. Currently Zap2It Data Direct Service listings service is limited to the most basic functionality, and you have to "renew" every 3 months. But at least it's free.... Telly is a prototype that is not even 50% there yet. At least not with the current OS (2.8x). Anyway I went and build one myself with dual boot Myth/Sage and am using the MC1000 pretty much as a firewall/DNS/Wins server now. At least at that job it is meeting expectations.

  • Oh and did I mention.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by siasl ( 541853 )
    The support is basically limited to emailing you that. "That problem will be fixed in 3.0"......

  • Not a serious box... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cayle clark ( 166742 ) on Saturday August 14, 2004 @12:47PM (#9967727) Homepage
    ...for home-theater buffs. No component video; while S-video is a step up from composite, anyone with (or wanting) an HD monitor wants component. No support for 1080i -- which means that even my little $800 samsung TV can't be used at its full resolution, let alone my brother-in-law's fancy 40-in LCD. Nor can you play DVDs at their full resolution and rectangular format.

    Although it claims 5.1 audio out, there's no telling what the audio quality is like, compared to a decent receiver. And none of the sound-processing options of a receiver, or Dolby or THx movie encodings, etc. And no hi-end audio inputs, so it can't be used as a receiver, to switch between and record from other audio sources.

    Compared to DirecTivo, it has only a single tuner, not two, so it can't record two simultaneous shows while playing back a recording, or record one while watching another. It doesn't have the season pass -- seek out and record every, or every new, episode of a series regardless of schedule changes -- or wish lists -- find and record every program whose title matches a search string. It has a "favorites" feature but does it auto-record "suggestions" based on your viewing patterns?

    Compared to Tivo media management, there's no indication it will work with OS X, and definitely no connection to iPhoto or iTunes libraries. If you've already got gigabytes of music a/o photos stored in those (or other) apps, you don't want to either move them all to a new media management solution, or duplicate them in two unrelated and uncoordinated systems.
  • No mention is made of anything technical about the signal handling (bitrates, encoding parameters, etc.)


    Interesting how much excitement can be generated over a so minimal product description, merely because it's Linux under the hood. I doubt that people here would be giving that announcement much positive response -- or even grudging acceptance -- if it were running Windows.


    The point should be whether the box does a good job of its primary function: video record and replay.

    • Anyone with $600 and ANY Linux experience can have a decent dual tuner (PVR250) HW mpeg Athlon box built from retail parts running in 2 hours, recording shows in mythtv, on a 250G drive. Suggest Nvidia 440 MX w/svideo+dvi out.

      Install Mandrake 10, and google for "easy urpmi", "thacs" and "PLF" add the sources (including main and contrib) , and "urpmi mythtv-suite".

      I highly suggest a broadband connection, and avoiding ALSA on NForce2 hardware.

      I also suggest an Antec Sonata or Overture case, as they have 12
  • I am kinda missing the component video output ...
    and you know what ... I can live with that maybe ... but no digital optical audio ? even no digital coax ??? (I prefer it over optical, as you can extend it more easily, and cables are cheaper ... of course for close connections i choose optical ... just like the hum of that red light that sneaks out as my rottveiler tends to get behind the TV ...):)

    so no hdtv connection, no chance to enjoy DTS .. (or anything that travels in an only digital way to your a

  • Are you telling me there's a penguin on the telly?

    -- MarkusQ

  • According to Wired magazine this PVR is "Pricey. Crashes frequently. Lackluster, awkward operating system."

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