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Dell to Ship Linux Desktops in Europe
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Jul 06, 2004 01:12 PM
from the somebody-stop-the-insanity dept.
from the somebody-stop-the-insanity dept.
Anglophile writes "Looks like Dell has launched a new line of desktop computers. The Dell Optiplexes will be sold in Europe, come with the Linspire operating system and include a one year free membership to their download warehouse. "
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great (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:great (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:great (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:great (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:great (Score:5, Informative)
I decided to try it... It is as bad as you heard.
First, you log as root by default. No attempt to tell you that you should create users. You must know it, find it in the menus and compared to the rest of the distribution the dialog box that let you finally add users looks cryptic (from a total newbie point of view).
Second and more important : this distribution is all about lock-in. They try to give you the impression that it is a different operating system than Windows and Linux. They rename everything to "make it easier for beginner". Other newbie-friendly distributions will write something as "Mozilla (Web Browser)" while Lindows will write "Web Browser". You can hardly switch for another application, you don't know what you are using to begin with.
The commands are renamed.
If you take a Knoppix CD and try to make a Lindows user use it, he will be confused.
apt-get doesn't work if you don't pay. You don't just pay for their Click-N-Run gui, you must pay to use apt-get itself.
And finally on a more philosophical point of view
They don't respect the GPL (they put a disclaimer that basically say : everything in there is copyrighted by us and us alone, don't steal !).
They also don't mention like Mandrake and Fedora (don't know for SuSE) that what you are using is the result of a communauty effort).
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Re:great (Score:5, Interesting)
The big distributions aren't exactly operations run out of a garage any more. Redhat has some (serious) money. SuSe is backed by Novell. The Debian folks probably wouldn't exactly be too thrilled to budge to Debian's demands (well, let's say requirements) and customize a distro. They simply don't really need the money that bad. A lot of the other distros either have their own agenda or niche or simply are too specialized (e.g. Gentoo).
Things are different if you're running a small distro though. There are bills to pay and contributions are always more than welcome. A company like Dell could therefore easily push some changes they deem necessary through. That way, they don't have to put their own people on it and, effectively, save a whole bunch of money.
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Less is more? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Less is more? (Score:4, Interesting)
From another news article [yahoo.com]:
Executive summary:
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Re:No, try $25 cheaper. (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft COULD do that, but it'd be a blantant violation of their slap-on-the-wrist agreement with the DoJ. They probably couldn't get away with it, and would be forced to start selling to Dell again.
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Tinfoil helmet ON (Score:5, Insightful)
2004: Dell starts selling PCs preloaded with Linspire.
2005: MS quietly increases discount for Dell.
2005: Dell quietly withdraws Linspire PCs, claims no market demand.
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Re:No, try $25 cheaper. (Score:5, Insightful)
And?...
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Re:No, try $25 cheaper. (Score:5, Insightful)
MS is dependent on its oem retailers probably more than the other way around.
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Finally we have someone like DELL doing it (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Finally we have someone like DELL doing it (Score:3, Informative)
Not at all. If Dell quit selling Windows entirely and began shipping only Lindows machines, then yes, it could be said that Dell was putting their weight behind it. That Dell is only offering it as an alternative means little, it'll be interpreted as Dell going after some market shares they don't have.
Soon (Score:4, Funny)
Dell & Linux Try #2? (Score:3, Insightful)
A few years ago, didn't Dell ship desktops, laptops and servers and sich with Red Hat Linux on them, nyet?
Re:Dell & Linux Try #2? (Score:3, Informative)
it runs linspire, but (Score:5, Funny)
Makes sense. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm surprised Dell hasn't done this sooner. But then again, Linspire is of recent vintage and was the first to make desktop Linux feasible on the large scale. Now people can obtain an entirely-Linux solution from Dell -- from the server to the desktop -- and all I can say is it's about time.
Re:Makes sense. (Score:3, Informative)
I rather think that suse/novell have made desktop linux quite feasible, and IMHO would be a much better fit for serious widespread deployment - Linspire (nee lindows) is interesting, but I would characterize it more as an attempt to make desktop linux easy for Aunt Tillie and her nephew Joe Sixpack, than as any sort of "large scale" paradigm.
As well, most competent admins find the weak security of Linspire t
Linspire!?!!??? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Linspire!?!!... why not? (Score:3, Insightful)
And I am a Mandrake user and apologist
They used to... (Score:5, Interesting)
I bought several PC's from Dell in 2001 with RedHat preinstalled... They shipped with driver disks too...
Download Warehouse? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Download Warehouse? (Score:5, Interesting)
The only way to get my mother off windows was to get her onto (then Lindows). She didn't trust that 'free' stuff. She felt comfortable paying a few dollars for it, and the 'support' behind it.
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Linspire? (Score:3)
The article I read inquirer.net didn't say if the machine was for whoreporate or home use.
a bit misleading (Score:5, Informative)
Who gets the savings (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Econ 101 (WHY WAS THIS MODDED TROLL) (Score:4, Interesting)
Please don't try to hurt what we've done here. We've brought as many brainless anti-corporate zealots together to form our own little "pretend" community, where we can spearhead a global movement against a non-existant threat. I personally would much rather consider myself a 'revolutionary' than an 'arrogant intellectial with hidden self esteem problems.'
Posts like yours only remind us of that reality that exists upstairs where our parents are working hard to make this dream possible.
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Trickle-down economics (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd bet that Dell made this decision because there are many large users (Munich decision, with many more considering) who will be switching over in the work-place.
Many non-techie employees of those organizations will want to have the same environment at home as at work -- two OSs is simply too "confusing" for point-and-click types.
And as more and more large institutions move to Linux whatever reason (there are many), I think we will see more and more pre-packaged systems available on a retail level.
Re:Trickle-down economics (Score:5, Funny)
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Linspire = Lindows = Debian (Score:5, Informative)
Linspire, previously known as LindowsOS (also Lin---s, pronounced as Lindash), is a Linux distribution based on Debian. It targets the consumer user - its distributors market it more intensively than all other Unix-based or Unix-like distributions except Mac OS X. As Lindows, it was the first Linux distribution to replace Windows in home consumer desktop systems at a substantially lower price than Microsoft Windows.
Michael Robertson, the founder and former CEO of MP3.com functions as the CEO of Lindows, Inc. It is still called "Lindows, Inc" even though the product is now Linspire.
Microsoft Corporation sued Lindows, Inc for its use of the term "Windows", which Microsoft claimed constituted a trademark infringement. In February 2004, a judge rejected two of Microsoft's central claims. Though Microsoft lost the core of its case, and says it will appeal the decision, for uncertain reasons it also called the decision "a victory". (See Microsoft vs Lindows for more information.) Lindows was renamed Linspire to avoid further legal action by Microsoft. Michael Robertson called the legal action "Sextuple Jeopardy", which is like "Double Jeopardy" but sextupled.
Lindows, Inc had the initial goal of developing a Linux-based operating system capable of running major Windows applications as well. It based its Windows compatibility on the development of WINE by the Linspire team. Lindows.com later abandoned its initial approach in favor of making Linux applications easy to download, install and use. They achieved this using an application called Click-N-Run, a program based on Debian's Advanced Packaging Tool, providing an easy-to-use interface and a slightly modified package system for an annual fee (apt-get costs no money, but has less user-friendliness). Click-N-Run has over 1,000 pieces of software for download.
Lindows, Inc sponsors many open-source projects and events, including the Gaim instant messaging client, the KDE-Apps.org (http://www.kde-apps.org/) and KDE-Look.org (http://www.kde-look.org/) websites, and the Nvu project, which has started to develop an open-source WYSIWYG website editor (based on the Mozilla composer code) to rival FrontPage. In the past, Linspire.com has contributed over $500,000 to the WINE project.
Editions
Several varieties of Linspire, known as editions, target different markets. Three main editions exist: Standard, Developer and Laptop.
External links
Can I license to ship with Dell too? (Score:4, Interesting)
File Compatability with ms office? (Score:3, Informative)
Linspire comes with Open Office 1.1 [linspire.com].
While there is a great deal of compatability between Open Office and MS Office, there are still issues [com.com]
Sounds a little misleading to me.
Re:File Compatability with ms office? (Score:3, Informative)
LOL, there are issues with different versions of ms office trying to open a given document!
Seriously, I am obliged to exchange ms office docs with my superiors, and I've been using openoffice 1.1.1 on suse for awhile now - no problems, and no complaints.
Oh, I'm sure some shill will come up with a document that doesn't look right, but as I said, that is not the common case, and as I mentioned above, you
Europe!=All of Europe (Score:4, Interesting)
No Linux option...
This bugs me especially considering they make the danm things right outside my back door. And yet I will always be the last customer to get bargins.
The real mainstream distros (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:linspire? (Score:3, Informative)
It was originally called Lindows. Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine. Not even the screengrabs would have been a dead-give-away. "Oh, must be a typo."
Re:linspire? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's funny how this detail is conveniently forgotten on Slashdot when it comes to making arguments about why Microsoft is in the wrong in that case. Protect the consumer, not the underdog.
Re:linspire? (Score:3, Insightful)
The menu choice would then say "[ ] Microsoft Windows". Even the biggest idiot in the world would have no confusion distinguishing that from "Lindows". The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use.
Re:linspire? (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit. Everybody calls it Windows, not Microsoft Windows. Additionally, the parent company if Linspire is called Lindows.com. To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".
What they'd need is a big bold sentence sayin
Re:linspire? (Score:4, Interesting)
Irrelevant. Everybody in the South calls a glass of Pepsi a "Coke". That doesn't mean that Pepsi should get a trademark on the word "Coke".
To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".
[ ] Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
[ ] Lindows.com Lindows
If those two choices seem confusing to you, you've got bigger problems than choosing an OS.
What they'd need is a big bold sentence saying "This is not the same as Windows! Watch out!"
And yet they're supposed to read, understand and agree to abide by the 10-page EULA full of obscure legal and technical language.
If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.
I don't see any problem at all with the name "Winux". Notice that the fact that it's not an English word makes it a good choice for a trademark name. I would encourage them to go for it, but unfortunately it seems to already be the name for an Indian Lindows-like product, as well as the name of a recent cross-platform virus.
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Re:linspire? (Score:3, Interesting)
That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled...
Re:linspire? (Score:4, Insightful)
What really irks me about the anti-MS sentiment on this topic is that it's WAY too late to do anything about it. MS owns the trademark regardless of whether or not they can put a (R) next to it. It'd take years to un-weld it from people's minds. At this point, setting it 'right' would potentially put a LOT of consumers out there in a position where they have to be unnecessarily careful. That's exactly why this whole trademark system was put into place to begin with. Oh, but we MUST SCREW MICROSOFT! BUAHAHAHA!!
Lame. The really really really stupid thing is that Lindows could never ever claim they landed on that name by accident. Their maliciousness in this case needs to be a factor in this as well. They cannot possibly ignore that even if MS had no legal right to trademark Windows years ago they would still be confusing people. You don't want Lindows to win this. It would set a precedent that would give MS the power to do the same thing to somebody else (i.e. Palm). Bad bad bad.
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Re:Linspire? Isn't that...uh, stupid? (Score:5, Informative)
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Mod Back Up (Score:3, Insightful)
If you like microsoft then use them. If not, then don't. And btw, I use gentoo, but I only say that not to get modded down as an ms fanboy because that's how some will read this.
Re:phone support (Score:4, Informative)
That was a few years ago, and since then, Red Hat has had some big changes in their support model, and Dell has sent all its tech support to India, and brought parts of it back again, so YMMV.
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