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Dell to Ship Linux Desktops in Europe

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Jul 06, 2004 01:12 PM
from the somebody-stop-the-insanity dept.
Anglophile writes "Looks like Dell has launched a new line of desktop computers. The Dell Optiplexes will be sold in Europe, come with the Linspire operating system and include a one year free membership to their download warehouse. "
+ -
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  • great (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fr0dicus (641320) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:13PM (#9623816) Journal
    Something wrong with the big distros?
    • Re:great (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:15PM (#9623849)
      This is Dell we're talking about. The other distros didn't suck enough for them.
    • Re:great (Score:4, Insightful)

      by clester (744726) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:16PM (#9623866) Homepage
      I agree... Although I prefer Debian, Something like Mandrake would be more suitable for the average joe. The tools that come right out of the box are great for anyone that wants to use linux. Not to mention a decent package manager...
      • Re:great (Score:5, Informative)

        by manabadman (589984) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:36PM (#9624107)
        Linspire is Debian. Debian based distributions are even more similiar than rpm based ones. Once installed, you can hardly tell Debian distros apart. In fact many people call these Debian based distros alternative [linuxmafia.com] installers
        • Re:great (Score:5, Informative)

          by Red Alastor (742410) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @02:04PM (#9624418)
          I thought that maybe the bad comments on Lindows were made by Linux zealots. I read a good article on it on osnews that gave a discount number that made you able to download it for free for 2 days.

          I decided to try it... It is as bad as you heard.

          First, you log as root by default. No attempt to tell you that you should create users. You must know it, find it in the menus and compared to the rest of the distribution the dialog box that let you finally add users looks cryptic (from a total newbie point of view).

          Second and more important : this distribution is all about lock-in. They try to give you the impression that it is a different operating system than Windows and Linux. They rename everything to "make it easier for beginner". Other newbie-friendly distributions will write something as "Mozilla (Web Browser)" while Lindows will write "Web Browser". You can hardly switch for another application, you don't know what you are using to begin with.

          The commands are renamed.

          If you take a Knoppix CD and try to make a Lindows user use it, he will be confused.

          apt-get doesn't work if you don't pay. You don't just pay for their Click-N-Run gui, you must pay to use apt-get itself.

          And finally on a more philosophical point of view :

          They don't respect the GPL (they put a disclaimer that basically say : everything in there is copyrighted by us and us alone, don't steal !).

          They also don't mention like Mandrake and Fedora (don't know for SuSE) that what you are using is the result of a communauty effort).
    • Re:great (Score:5, Interesting)

      by igrp (732252) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:24PM (#9623966)
      I guess - and I am only assuming here - that a big distributor could get away with a lot more with a small distro.

      The big distributions aren't exactly operations run out of a garage any more. Redhat has some (serious) money. SuSe is backed by Novell. The Debian folks probably wouldn't exactly be too thrilled to budge to Debian's demands (well, let's say requirements) and customize a distro. They simply don't really need the money that bad. A lot of the other distros either have their own agenda or niche or simply are too specialized (e.g. Gentoo).

      Things are different if you're running a small distro though. There are bills to pay and contributions are always more than welcome. A company like Dell could therefore easily push some changes they deem necessary through. That way, they don't have to put their own people on it and, effectively, save a whole bunch of money.

  • Less is more? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xOleanderx (794187) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:13PM (#9623820)
    So are they gonna be $150 cheaper?
    • Re:Less is more? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Bullard (62082) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @06:00PM (#9627027) Homepage
      Some more details has emerged

      From another news article [yahoo.com]:

      Starting at about $575, the systems will be targeted at businesses, schools and consumers.

      The Dell OptiPlex systems loaded with Linspire are available only through Questar. Dell was not offering any Linspire-based systems on its Web site.

      Dell spokesman Jeremy Bolen said Questar purchases the computers from the PC giant and then resells them to its customers. He said Questar is a direct customer of Dell and not a partner.
      "That's the extent of their relationship with us," he said.

      The basic Questar system ships with an Intel Celeron processor, 256 megabytes of memory and a 40- gigabyte hard drive.

      No similar configurations are shown at Dell's U.S. Web site, though a low-end OptiPlex PC running a Pentium 4 with Windows starts at about $400.

      Executive summary:

      • Dell isn't offering any Linux preloads.
      • Some Dell customer (Questar) buys boxes from Dell, installs Linspire and charges hefty premium.
      • These boxes would appear to be at least $150 more expensive than Dell's own low-end MS boxes.
      • Dell wants to distance themselves from this outrageous Linux offering.
      • The Redmond Overlords most probably get their usual cut as it is nigh impossible to get Dell to ship anything without a pre-paid Microsoft licence.
      • Linux customers should consider patronizing vendors with bona fide Linux support instead.
        • by jdhutchins (559010) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:21PM (#9623931)
          "could basically shut down Dell by not selling to them"

          Microsoft COULD do that, but it'd be a blantant violation of their slap-on-the-wrist agreement with the DoJ. They probably couldn't get away with it, and would be forced to start selling to Dell again.
        • by Unnngh! (731758) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:23PM (#9623958)
          They could do a lot of damage to Dell this way, but it wouldn't be smart for either party. How is average joe computer buyer going to respond when he sees that half the PCs at Bestbuy are running some thing called Linux, proudly embossed with the Dell name, when the salesman tells him it's just as good as Windows only cheaper? He'll probably buy the Dell Linux system.

          MS is dependent on its oem retailers probably more than the other way around.

  • by SlashingComments (702709) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:14PM (#9623836)
    This is great ! If DELL is putting their weight behind that will be a major policy shift for *many* corporations.
  • Soon (Score:4, Funny)

    by gustgr (695173) <rondina&gmail,com> on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:14PM (#9623840) Homepage
    SCO x DELL
  • by jo42 (227475) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:15PM (#9623858) Homepage

    A few years ago, didn't Dell ship desktops, laptops and servers and sich with Red Hat Linux on them, nyet?

    • I confirm that, I worked at a company that used Dell Optiplex computers and they _were_ shipped with RH at the time. However, they discontinued that because of the "lack of demand" (well, that's what they told us anyway)
  • by lanswitch (705539) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:16PM (#9623864)
    does it run linux?
  • Makes sense. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Future Man 3000 (706329) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:16PM (#9623871) Homepage
    In an office environment where the servers and workstations are Linux (as they are in increasing numbers throughout Europe) the secretaries might as well operate in parity. The cost efficiency of these machines and the number of 'low-end' systems that tend to be deployed in a business environment make these a good solution for places that desire something a little better/easier to implement than a dumb terminal.

    I'm surprised Dell hasn't done this sooner. But then again, Linspire is of recent vintage and was the first to make desktop Linux feasible on the large scale. Now people can obtain an entirely-Linux solution from Dell -- from the server to the desktop -- and all I can say is it's about time.

    • Linspire is of recent vintage and was the first to make desktop Linux feasible on the large scale.

      I rather think that suse/novell have made desktop linux quite feasible, and IMHO would be a much better fit for serious widespread deployment - Linspire (nee lindows) is interesting, but I would characterize it more as an attempt to make desktop linux easy for Aunt Tillie and her nephew Joe Sixpack, than as any sort of "large scale" paradigm.

      As well, most competent admins find the weak security of Linspire t
  • Linspire!?!!??? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Moby Cock (771358) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:17PM (#9623880) Homepage
    Why Linspire? Why not use a bigger, (dare I say it) better distro. SuSe 9.1 is Europe's biggest distro, why not that? Is there some anger between Novell and Dell?
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Linspire is Debian-based and one of the most windows-like distribution. Besides, it has an excellent software upgrade system that is esy to use for everyone. It makes sense.

      And I am a Mandrake user and apologist :).
  • They used to... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mustangsal66 (580843) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:17PM (#9623883)
    So Dell returns home to Linux...

    I bought several PC's from Dell in 2001 with RedHat preinstalled... They shipped with driver disks too...
  • by AceJohnny (253840) <jlargentaye&gmail,com> on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:17PM (#9623885) Journal
    Download warehouse? is that like an apt-get repository? DAMMIT! It was so OBVIOUS! To get Linux on the market, it had to become paying, then add free offers!
    • by mustangsal66 (580843) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:20PM (#9623918)
      Seriously,

      The only way to get my mother off windows was to get her onto (then Lindows). She didn't trust that 'free' stuff. She felt comfortable paying a few dollars for it, and the 'support' behind it.
  • What on earth? I figured for Europe they would go with Suse. But Linspire?

    The article I read inquirer.net didn't say if the machine was for whoreporate or home use.

  • a bit misleading (Score:5, Informative)

    by theonlyholle (720311) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:18PM (#9623892) Homepage
    looks like this is a bit misleading - in fact, Dell is shipping them, but they are actually being sold by an Italian company called Questar. So while they are technically Dell machines and even shipped by Dell, this is not a big move by Dell onto the European linux market, it's a smaller company taking the initiative in partnership with Dell...
  • by MrMojado (786565) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:19PM (#9623903)
    Do they still pay the microsoft tax? I would assume Dell passes the savings of not paying for an OS right into their pocket. Consumers will not see lower prices.
      • by GreyWolf3000 (468618) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:51PM (#9624259) Journal
        Noooo...you see, in our world here, corporations like IBM and HP have secret meetings where they agree to only make the appearance of competing. Really, they just pool cash to buy Republicans into office (which will presumably go out of their way to legislate all of the money out of the pockets of the masses), jack up prices, and more importantly think of ways they can screw end customers out of money, even if it hurts them too.

        Please don't try to hurt what we've done here. We've brought as many brainless anti-corporate zealots together to form our own little "pretend" community, where we can spearhead a global movement against a non-existant threat. I personally would much rather consider myself a 'revolutionary' than an 'arrogant intellectial with hidden self esteem problems.'

        Posts like yours only remind us of that reality that exists upstairs where our parents are working hard to make this dream possible.

  • by dankney (631226) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:20PM (#9623914) Homepage
    Finally there's a version of the trickle-down theory that actually works.

    I'd bet that Dell made this decision because there are many large users (Munich decision, with many more considering) who will be switching over in the work-place.

    Many non-techie employees of those organizations will want to have the same environment at home as at work -- two OSs is simply too "confusing" for point-and-click types.

    And as more and more large institutions move to Linux whatever reason (there are many), I think we will see more and more pre-packaged systems available on a retail level.
  • by Eloquence (144160) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:21PM (#9623935) Homepage
    From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], licensed under the GNU FDL:

    Linspire, previously known as LindowsOS (also Lin---s, pronounced as Lindash), is a Linux distribution based on Debian. It targets the consumer user - its distributors market it more intensively than all other Unix-based or Unix-like distributions except Mac OS X. As Lindows, it was the first Linux distribution to replace Windows in home consumer desktop systems at a substantially lower price than Microsoft Windows.

    Michael Robertson, the founder and former CEO of MP3.com functions as the CEO of Lindows, Inc. It is still called "Lindows, Inc" even though the product is now Linspire.

    Microsoft Corporation sued Lindows, Inc for its use of the term "Windows", which Microsoft claimed constituted a trademark infringement. In February 2004, a judge rejected two of Microsoft's central claims. Though Microsoft lost the core of its case, and says it will appeal the decision, for uncertain reasons it also called the decision "a victory". (See Microsoft vs Lindows for more information.) Lindows was renamed Linspire to avoid further legal action by Microsoft. Michael Robertson called the legal action "Sextuple Jeopardy", which is like "Double Jeopardy" but sextupled.

    Lindows, Inc had the initial goal of developing a Linux-based operating system capable of running major Windows applications as well. It based its Windows compatibility on the development of WINE by the Linspire team. Lindows.com later abandoned its initial approach in favor of making Linux applications easy to download, install and use. They achieved this using an application called Click-N-Run, a program based on Debian's Advanced Packaging Tool, providing an easy-to-use interface and a slightly modified package system for an annual fee (apt-get costs no money, but has less user-friendliness). Click-N-Run has over 1,000 pieces of software for download.

    Lindows, Inc sponsors many open-source projects and events, including the Gaim instant messaging client, the KDE-Apps.org (http://www.kde-apps.org/) and KDE-Look.org (http://www.kde-look.org/) websites, and the Nvu project, which has started to develop an open-source WYSIWYG website editor (based on the Mozilla composer code) to rival FrontPage. In the past, Linspire.com has contributed over $500,000 to the WINE project.

    Editions

    Several varieties of Linspire, known as editions, target different markets. Three main editions exist: Standard, Developer and Laptop.

    • Standard - The standard edition offers the standard distributions, intended for most consumer desktops.
    • Developer - A version designed for developers, this version comes with many development tools such as text editors, compilers and libaries for developing software.
    • Laptop - A version of Linspire optimized for notebook computers, which have different hardware requirements from desktop computers.
    • LindowsLive! - Potential users can download a no-cost LiveCD version of Linspire in ISO image format from P2P networks.

    External links

  • Maybe Dell can work out a deal where anyone can sell their machines with any o/s preloaded as a ghosted image, provided you send them the CD and you're liable if the image is crap... that would be sweet! Then we could all compete with our favorite o/s's and with wal-mart (to some tiny degree)
  • by jzilla (256016) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:30PM (#9624036) Homepage
    "All Dell computers sold by Questar will be equipped with word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software and file compatibility with Microsoft Office."

    Linspire comes with Open Office 1.1 [linspire.com].

    While there is a great deal of compatability between Open Office and MS Office, there are still issues [com.com]
    Sounds a little misleading to me.
    • While there is a great deal of compatability between Open Office and MS Office, there are still issues

      LOL, there are issues with different versions of ms office trying to open a given document!

      Seriously, I am obliged to exchange ms office docs with my superiors, and I've been using openoffice 1.1.1 on suse for awhile now - no problems, and no complaints.

      Oh, I'm sure some shill will come up with a document that doesn't look right, but as I said, that is not the common case, and as I mentioned above, you
  • Checks Irish Site...
    No Linux option...

    This bugs me especially considering they make the danm things right outside my back door. And yet I will always be the last customer to get bargins.
  • by Animats (122034) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @02:02PM (#9624380) Homepage
    While on Slashdot we hear endlessly about Red Hat, Debian, etc., the volume manufacturers are going with Lindows, Linspire, Thiz, and in China, Red Flag. Maybe those should get more coverage. What do the installed base figures look like?
    • "Linspire? Never heard of it..."

      It was originally called Lindows. Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine. Not even the screengrabs would have been a dead-give-away. "Oh, must be a typo."
      • "Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine."

        It's funny how this detail is conveniently forgotten on Slashdot when it comes to making arguments about why Microsoft is in the wrong in that case. Protect the consumer, not the underdog.
        • The full trademark name is "Microsoft Windows". (Or should be, since plain English words describing generic attributes of a product should note be trademarkable.)

          The menu choice would then say "[ ] Microsoft Windows". Even the biggest idiot in the world would have no confusion distinguishing that from "Lindows". The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use.

          • "The consumer is already protected without needing to privatize a word already in general use."

            Bullshit. Everybody calls it Windows, not Microsoft Windows. Additionally, the parent company if Linspire is called Lindows.com. To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".

            What they'd need is a big bold sentence sayin
            • Re:linspire? (Score:4, Interesting)

              by Waffle Iron (339739) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @02:26PM (#9624653)
              Everybody calls it Windows, not Microsoft Windows.

              Irrelevant. Everybody in the South calls a glass of Pepsi a "Coke". That doesn't mean that Pepsi should get a trademark on the word "Coke".

              To further confuse things, Microsoft has several variations of Windows like 2000, XP, Me, etc that people are familiar with. Calling it "Microsoft Windows" is not enough by a long shot, especially when compared to "Lindows.Com Lindows".

              [ ] Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
              [ ] Lindows.com Lindows

              If those two choices seem confusing to you, you've got bigger problems than choosing an OS.

              What they'd need is a big bold sentence saying "This is not the same as Windows! Watch out!"

              And yet they're supposed to read, understand and agree to abide by the 10-page EULA full of obscure legal and technical language.

              If Microsoft made a product called Winux, you all'd suddenly change sides on this issue.

              I don't see any problem at all with the name "Winux". Notice that the fact that it's not an English word makes it a good choice for a trademark name. I would encourage them to go for it, but unfortunately it seems to already be the name for an Indian Lindows-like product, as well as the name of a recent cross-platform virus.

      • It was originally called Lindows. Imagine how confusing that would have been: selecting between Lindows and Windows in the OS box while config'ing your machine. Not even the screengrabs would have been a dead-give-away. "Oh, must be a typo."

        That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled...

        • Re:linspire? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Anonvmous Coward (589068) on Tuesday July 06 2004, @01:35PM (#9624088)
          "That's what Microsoft said too; that's why they sued Lindows. But of course, anyone who suggested that they might just be right about the confusion got flame broiled..."

          What really irks me about the anti-MS sentiment on this topic is that it's WAY too late to do anything about it. MS owns the trademark regardless of whether or not they can put a (R) next to it. It'd take years to un-weld it from people's minds. At this point, setting it 'right' would potentially put a LOT of consumers out there in a position where they have to be unnecessarily careful. That's exactly why this whole trademark system was put into place to begin with. Oh, but we MUST SCREW MICROSOFT! BUAHAHAHA!!

          Lame. The really really really stupid thing is that Lindows could never ever claim they landed on that name by accident. Their maliciousness in this case needs to be a factor in this as well. They cannot possibly ignore that even if MS had no legal right to trademark Windows years ago they would still be confusing people. You don't want Lindows to win this. It would set a precedent that would give MS the power to do the same thing to somebody else (i.e. Palm). Bad bad bad.
    • This guy is right. People here make anti-microsoft claims just for the karma. Rarely are they backed up with any credible evidence. It's a shame to see a good discussion revolve around some jerk who should me modded down as "-1, Jumped on the Bandwagon"

      If you like microsoft then use them. If not, then don't. And btw, I use gentoo, but I only say that not to get modded down as an ms fanboy because that's how some will read this.
    • Re:phone support (Score:4, Informative)

      by emtboy9 (99534) <{jeff} {at} {jefflane.org}> on Tuesday July 06 2004, @02:00PM (#9624348) Homepage
      Things may have changed, but in the past, in the US at least, Dell's customers called Dell support for any issue. The Dell Tech determined if the call was a Linux issue or a Hardware issue. Then, if it was a hardware issue, the customer was handled by the Dell tech. If the issue was a Linux issue, the customer was forwarded to Red Hat's tech support.

      That was a few years ago, and since then, Red Hat has had some big changes in their support model, and Dell has sent all its tech support to India, and brought parts of it back again, so YMMV.