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THG On Migrating To Linux
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Mar 30, 2004 09:47 AM
from the how-would-you-do-it dept.
from the how-would-you-do-it dept.
inphinity writes "The fine folks over at Tom's Hardware have posted an interesting guide titled Migrating from Windows to Linux. In the first of what will hopefully be several parts, they describe what steps to take to back up critical data and move to open-source apps. All in all, a fairly in-depth and comprehensive step-by-step guide. As a nice touch, they've even included a downloadable checklist for confused people."
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interesting.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I was recommended Debian. (First linux install). Why is Red Hat/Mandrake better?
Hope I'm not opening up a can of worms here...
Re:interesting.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes I know you only install once (or should), but MDK at least (not tried RH since v6) is alot more friendly to the novice user
Re:interesting.. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Because of the lack of GUI tools for every configuration I needed to make, I had to do it myself.
Through this course I learned a whole lot more about the internal workings of Debian and Linux distros in general.
So in my opinion, if you're not scared to try and learn something new, Debian is not that bad a choice.
Another nice side-effect was that I never felt more in controle over my PC then ever before.
Like Mentor said: "[...] Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me... [...]"
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Because of the lack of GUI tools for every configuration I needed to make, I had to do it myself.
Through this course I learned a whole lot more about the internal workings of Debian and Linux distros in general.
But that is the whole point. Most folks don't want or need to learn about the internal workings of their OS. They want to send email to the grandkids, print the pictures from their digital camera, browse the web, write letters etc.
Telling these folks that if they want to use Linux they have to become power users is equivalent to telling them to stay on Windows 98.
Even I am of two minds. I've been using Linux since 93. I love to play with it. I've done the whole build-a-system-without-a-distro thing, so I'm fairly comfortable with the OS.
When I sit down in front of it to do my day job however, I want it to just work. So, for my day job I use a specially tricked out (by the company I work for) RedHat 9 distro. Sure, I could have built it better myself, and even now I could spend some time and make it better. But
I think Linux as a hobby is great. The point made by the article is that Linux as a tool is important, and it different from Linux as a hobby.
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, that's a great slogan for open source software
"Windows doesn't like you!"
It's good because everytime windows craps up again, it will be a reinforcement of the implanted idea.
Rich
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:interesting.. (Score:5, Insightful)
That seemed a little scary at first, but I was over-joyed when I ran top after my first boot and saw how little mem was in use (around 30Mb I think)
If you really want to get your hands dirty and figure out whats _really_ going on under the hood, I would use Gentoo because you really have to learn everything. There is no choice!
Disclaimer to all Linux beginners: If you have never used Linux before and aren't willing to spend hours of research time to get a seemingly simple thing to work, I would suggest using Red Hat Fedora or Mandrake. But if you've used those and want to take the next step, I say dive in all the way and give Gentoo a try.
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I think there are two types of people who want to use Linux. Those who want to install it, and those who want to learn it. After many years of playing arround, installing, uninstalling all with a GUI, I decided to try and "learn" Linux. To that end I am installing Gentoo as we speak (emerging KDE @ home). I have learned more this week than I have in a few years of GUI installs. I think MDK, RH, SUSE are great for the people who want to install and run, and things like Debian, Gentoo, Slackware are for people who want to learn. This is the beauty of Linux. Just my 2 cents
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I usually operate from the Gnome graphical interface and have trouble memorizing commands I don't use every day. So far I've been able to troubleshoot a couple of problems with help from friends, and the last time I solved it on my own by exploring menus and submenus.
Linux Missionaries are right about one thing though: it runs better than Windows. It crashes less, and while it may just be a difference in attitude, I feel more empowered to experiment with Linux. Changes I made in Linux were more reversible than in any version of Windows that I ever used, and that helped a lot when I was trying to get this laptop networked with a Windows system in collaboration with the Windows guy who didn't know Linux and his friend the Linux guru who didn't know anything about my hardware.
The other great advantage is that despite antivirus software, my Windows buddy has been hit once with a virus and maybe twice, but my laptop is safe. That would have made more trouble worthwhile, but at this point my Red Hat 9 system is stable and I'm happy with it.
Since some more advanced Linux geeks all said that Dell was the friendliest hardware to Linux, the next level for me is to get a Dell when I upgrade and dual-boot it, trying Debian but keeping the graphical interface.
Question about Debian and its automatic upgrades: since I am likely to go on using laptops, would Debian eventually evolve to the point hardware won't support it if I just keep running a stable system, or would it respond more by installing only the refinements to the version compatible with that generation of hardware?
My Debian-using friend uses a p133 with relatively little RAM and manages to work from home on it, but it can't run at decent speed in graphical interface. What exactly happens when old hardware and current generation Linux come together?
Robert and Ari >^..^
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's rather good to install some old slackware (1998 with a book is nice), toy around a week, wreck it, reformat & install $distro{$deity}.
This way you'll know how system works and how to
Oh, I see I'm too geeky too... Sorry, /. influence.
I've tried Mandrake 9 and it's about fine but there're some annoying things to make me Ctrl-Alt-F1 and tellinit $GeekRunlevel myself.
No matter, I'm home-linuxed. Cheers, OSS guys!
Re:interesting.. (Score:4, Funny)
It's not like everyone wants read the rest of the thread in your humble opinion. Geez.
Parent
Re:interesting.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
theOpenCD (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me be the first of many to mention TheOpenCD [sunsite.dk]. First switch to OSS under Windows. Once you're used to the apps, its easier to make the leap to a full Linux desktop.
I have dual-boot RH9/Win at work now and have not booted the Windows OS in 2 months. Most of what I need is:
Gnome
Evolution
OpenOffice
Re:theOpenCD (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:theOpenCD (Score:5, Informative)
Try "Pan" for news. It only does news, but it looks a lot like evolution. It's pretty badass.
Parent
Re:theOpenCD (Score:3, Funny)
nice stuff (Score:4, Informative)
Not much meat.... (Score:5, Informative)
i still maintain the best way to learn is to sit and watch a linux-savy friend do a few installs, ask questions, take notes, and keep them near when you try it for the first time. Sorry, but that's the best way
Almost forgot... (Score:3, Informative)
Use a live cd or friend's computer if you have to!
Re:Almost forgot... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Confusion? (Score:4, Informative)
What if the confused people are too confused to understand how to download it?
Re:Confusion? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Confusion? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Confusion? (Score:3, Funny)
Son, folks who use Windows aren't really bad people... they're just confused.
Livecd? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you don't like it, then it's easier to switch back if you want to.
That's how I'm gonna try it anyway.
Nice ending (Score:3, Funny)
Until then, say goodbye to your Windows OS, because its doom is approaching.
I do fear that some readers would see this as a biased article with a statement like that though. Hopefully readers are aware of the THG's objective viewpoint in general.
Re:Nice ending (Score:4, Interesting)
This CNN - Microsoft exec concedes 'worst' goof [cnn.com] story includes:
Ballmer said Microsoft spends about 12 percent of its media budget on online advertising, and that he orders his staff to "saturate" that market first and foremost.
"I want to make sure [a user] can't get through
If they can't produce a superior product, advertise and saturate the market with what you have. With some of the larger IT vendors publicly adding more support for Linux based systems, MS almost has to advertise to this level.
Parent
THG on Windows - Linux migration? (Score:5, Funny)
... that's all fine but does it have bar graphs? Whenever I read anything at THG, my attention span flips over to "Goldfish" mode and I NEED the bar graphs! Nrrrgh! *twitch*
Mass Migration Feared (Score:4, Funny)
"This is a serious problem. We expect at least 80% of all windows users to move to Linux", said Steve Balmer, the CEO of Microsoft, at a hastily convened press conference. "This will be the beginning of the end of Windows"
When asked how Microsoft plans to respond to the situation, Mr Balmber replied: "We have our methods".
Meanwhile, Darl McBride, the C.E.O. of SCO today announced that the copyright tp the choosing a Linux distribution algorith belonged to them, and they would sue THG and any other users who followed THG advice over IP violation issues.
Moderate this comment
Negative: Offtopic [mithuro.com] Flamebait [mithuro.com] Troll [mithuro.com] Redundant [mithuro.com]
Positive: Insightful [mithuro.com] Interesting [mithuro.com] Informative [mithuro.com] Funny [mithuro.com]
This is a really great article. (Score:5, Interesting)
I was very impressed with the way that they explain the differences between distros. I.e., same kernel/under the hood with different apps on top.
Although I am a diehard Debian user, I totally agree with the recommendation for RH, SUSE, or Mandrake. Personally, if I am helping the person migrate and doing the Linux install for them, I usually do Debian stable with GNOME or KDE backport, depending on the user's preferences. However, if they intend on doing it themselves I recommend RH, Mandrake or a Knopppix hard drive install.
I am also impressed with the way in which they specify which apps work best for certain things. I.e., Evolution for email, OOo for office productivity. There wasn't any "you need to choose from one of these 50 email clients and one of these 5 office suites."
Kudos to THG for a well thought out and well written article. Hopefully the rest of the articles in the series are as well written.
Tom's really knows how to write a page turner (Score:5, Funny)
9 Steps Windows-to-Linux roadmap (IBM) (Score:5, Informative)
Windows-to-Linux Roadmap [ibm.com]
Help for even the confused?! (Score:3, Funny)
"Damn... It's in this weird PDF file format... PDF... Um... Penguinne Data File? Argh!!! I have to have Linux running before I can install it now!"
Looking back, I was a waddling Linux basket case nightmare, and you guys spouting "RTFM" and slinging insults weren't exactly helpful either.
Best experience a noob could have. Thanks. ;-)
Today I know that Linux isn't just "good enough" or "free if your time is worthless". I didn't learn those lessons by someone daintily holding my hand and cooing nursery rhymes in my ears. I was subjected to inflamatory attacks and brutally senseless trolls.
I also learned that Linux doesn't mean you have to be a total geekwad that couldn't get laid even by a concrete mixer... Although I'm under no obligations either.
I learned everything a guy could ever hope to learn from the one true beacon of light and hope for all the world: Slashdot [slashdot.org].
(No, seriously... no one put me up to this... What do you mean I've got something on my nose? Where?)
Definitely Mandrake (Score:5, Interesting)
I have tried many distros, including SuSE, Fedora, Severn, Slackware, Knoppix, Debian, Ark, Lindows, Phat, Dragon, LFS, G/CX and yes even FreeBSD which isn't even a "Linux", but out of all of those i chose Mandrake.
Why? Because it works. My mouse, keyboard, desktop, cdrw, dvd-rw, printer, scanner, digital camera, sound, tv card, alien beacon, toothbrush and nuclear reactor all work with Mandrake linux. Tell that to XP, who BSOD'd on me when I plugged in my digital camera!
Software is installed with ease, Hardware is configured with point and click! If you wanted the ultimate distro for both begginners AND experts (I have used linux for nearly three years) then get Mandrake!
What about Slackware (Score:4, Informative)
If starting out and you really want to know Linux then try the slackware installation then moving onto compiling your own kernel [linuxfromscratch.org] distro. If you just want to run linux than Redhat [redhat.com] is quite easy to install.
THG? The Humble Guys? (Score:3, Interesting)
www.TheHumbleGuys.com
Still, there are major problems. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is my "switch" story: I just got a Dell Latitude C600 laptop. "Hey," I said to myself, "...why don't I try to install Linux on it?" So, I grabbed some RH 8.0 CD's that I had and set out to installing. The CD booted fine, I chose the standard workstation installation and off I went. When I got to the monitor / video card, I accepted the defaults and soon I was finished.
Upon reboot, the screen flashed several times at the text login prompt and finally, a teal box with garbled characters appeared in the middle of the screen. Now, being an avid /. reader, I knew that this was a problem with my X configuration. So, I hit enter to get out of the garbled box, logged on as root and edited my XF86Config file with some suggestions from a forum that I found after searching Google. I typed "startx" and boom...I was in!
So far, you would have lost the average user at the login prompt. I admit, installing on a laptop isn't always easy, but you shouldn't have to edit config files to change the "r128" to "vesa". [Relax, I'm venting here.]
The second problem I had was with the Proxim Orinoco Wireless card. No network. Card not detected. Not even a selection to add it under "Network Devices". This time, the "how-to" that I found didn't help. Nothing that I could do could make the card work. And to top it off, Proxim doesn't provide Linux drivers.
So I went with XP. One disc and everything worked.
My point is not that Windows is better than Linux, because believe me, I would rather have gone with Linux on my laptop. However, until it's easy to install (you know, just go through the prompts and most everything works), you're not going to get anyone to switch.
Re:Still, there are major problems. (Score:3, Interesting)
So you see, once the population has EasyInstallBigBrother-Linux, water-cooler gossips come to claim Debian.
Wow...that's rather apocalyptic. "Easy to install" does not mean the end to open source, nor does it mean a huge generic kernel. It's not like I was adding hardware after the initial install. This was the initial install. The kernel should have been built to suit the needs of the hardware in the laptop. Later, if I wanted to install more hardware, then it could easily (relatively speaking of course
Re:Still, there are major problems. (Score:4, Insightful)
You know, I get asked to install upgrades all the time also. And I've done it a million times, sometimes with problems, sometimes without. However, I have never once had to edit the Windows resistry to get the machine to boot into the GUI correctly. If there was a problem with the video card driver, then it dumps me into one that works (hell, the RH installer didn't have a problem with the video driver, why did I?), and then I can correct it via the GUI.
Now, don't get me wrong -- I like config files as much as the next *nix masochist -- however, it's nice to have that option there when you're at the console and not 800 miles away on a VT100 terminal.
My point is that most of the Linux installs feel like Voodoo. If you don't get it right the first time, you have to cook some bones, say a few words, and dig into the dark underworld that is /etc in order to make things right again. It shouldn't be this way.
Parent
No Access Advice (Score:4, Insightful)
He makes this statement and then never follows through with any suggestions for Window users looking to make the switch. It would have been nice if he put together a cookbook recipe for transitioning Databases from Access to say a MySQL+Rekall solution.
While there's plenty of advice out there [google.com] about migrating your data, (the easy part, IMHO) I have not seen any recipies for converting your forms and reports... (And as we're talking Desktop apps here, using MySQL as a backend with Access on the frontend isn't relevent)
Is there any way other than recreating the forms/reports?
I'm sure many Window users want to know.. and while I'm a seasoned Linux (as Desktop) user without any reliance on Access myself, I know of businesses that might convert if not for the Access hurdle. (So far I have had no useful advice for them)
A Good Guide, as long as everything works. (Score:3, Insightful)
My biggest criticism is that the article, like pretty much every similar one, does not warn the unsuspecting beginner that there is a significant likelihood that there will be at least one insoluble problem.
Even though things have improved greatly in Linux installation, new people need to understand that one of either their video card, palm sync, scanner, or networking will not work out of the box, and that tracking down a solution can take hours or days.
The last thing that Linux needs is more people throwing up their hands in despair after ten hours of an install gone horribly wrong. It's better to warn them right up front that things are still quite a bit less reliable than a Windows install.
dual boot (Score:3, Insightful)
I did this at home. The computer came with Win98 at the time, I installed RedHat as dual boot, and for the first week or two my wife kept rebooting now and then, but very quickly she preferred to leave it running Linux, and that was it. This machine is now happily running Mandrake, with tipical uptimes of months.
Re:hmmm (Score:3, Informative)
Re:hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
nero was once good, 3 years ago, when they were still hungry.
now it's rubbish.
k3b.
that's your nero under linux. burn cd data, cd audio, dvd data.
Parent
Re:hmmm (Score:3, Interesting)
cdr tools (Score:3, Informative)
K3b (Score:4, Interesting)
Real life anecdote: two weeks ago I went to my friend Lorenzo's with a Knoppix disc, booted it and showed him. He liked it and wanted to keep it, but it was my only copy and I had deleted the ISO from my own hard drive. No problem. Mount his HD read/write, fire K3b, select the HD for temp storage of the iso, and rip/burn in under 30 minutes. Flawless.
The operating system was running from the same CD we were copying, mind you. No hassle.
Parent
...and the best part with K3B... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent