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LGP brings back Loki, Kind Of
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Mar 10, 2004 09:44 AM
from the games-are-a-good-indicator dept.
from the games-are-a-good-indicator dept.
michaelsimms writes "Linux Game Publishing has announced a publishing deal with Epic Interactive to publish Northland for Linux. What's this about Loki, you ask? Well, Northland is a game featuring the Norse god Loki, and a group of heroes battling to save the world in the time of Odin and the gods of Nordic myth."
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Please stop slashdotting... (Score:2, Funny)
Look ma! Article text! (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Look ma! Article text! (Score:2)
> for the PC, tells the story of Bjarni the Viking.
I would definitely go buy several copies if only it were Bjarni, not Loki, who was the insidious creeping threat of the Northlands... and if he were a big purple dinosaur instead of a Viking. Or maybe even a big purple Viking dinosaur.
Solomon Chang
Bastard! (Score:5, Funny)
BUT NNOOOOOooooo!!!!
It's a game featuring the Norse God, Loki...Next time someone pulls a posting stunt like that, they should be drawn and quartered!
Re:Bastard! (Score:2)
OT: Angry Pixels (Score:2)
Re:OT: Angry Pixels (Score:3, Informative)
Re:OT: Angry Pixels (Score:2)
Re:OT: Angry Pixels (Score:3, Informative)
Steve Baker left, when it was clear that LGP wasn't able to give us good artists (porting!=creating). Then even discussions on mailing list dissapear. And I think it was exact moment o
Re:OT: Angry Pixels (Score:4, Interesting)
A bad set of people? I think not, the group were a talented bunch. I would not argue that organisation was a problem either, though it is hard to organise a distributed group of people on a major project.
From selected 8 coders only Steve Baker and I were experienced in graphics - and in 3D at all.
Whether or not the group were experienced in graphics or not (I forget who had experience in what), how many developers do you think need to be experience in graphics on a game project? A game's graphics are only it's visual representation and is a very small part of development.
Steve Baker left, when it was clear that LGP wasn't able to give us good artists
I think, although Steve may say differently, that he left due to lack of progress and not lack of good artists.
Then even discussions on mailing list dissapear. And I think it was exact moment of death.
Interesting. I received 1,147 e-mails from the list after Steve left (of a total of 2,809). This wasn't the moment of death, though it didn't help.
In all honesty the project was going to be incredibly difficult to make work due to the lack of regular monetary motivation (as in a wage), which meant maintaining motivation for the project was incredibly difficult.
On the topic of motivation, it didn't help to have a person who is quite possibly the most pessimistic (sic?) and most difficult to work with ever (certainly of all the people that I have ever worked with). Oh, that was Jacek btw.
Oh well, c'est la vie.
Parent
Let's see here... (Score:2)
No, waitaminute...
Loki? [dte.uma.es]
That's not right...
Ah, here we are! Loki! [animenewsnetwork.com]
Chris Mattern
Coming Soon: KNorthland (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Coming Soon: KNorthland (Score:5, Insightful)
Apart from that , however, i don't see it as a viable solution because no LiveCD could ever work flawlessly (3D acceleration and all) on EVERY computer.
Plus, games today often span ultiple CDs and are decompressed on the hard-drive. Even if we could fit the game on a CD with on-the-fly decompression, it would probably be very slow in reading data. Not to mention that when storing data was needed (eg save games), it would prove problematic.
Coolness grade A+ Feasibility: F
Parent
Re:Coming Soon: KNorthland (Score:3, Insightful)
This is what everyone was talking about a year ago: Bootable Linux game CD's.
Ugh, that's got to be the worst idea ever. What's one of the biggest things that most people hate about Windows, and that *nix users love to crow about? The fact that you have to REBOOT Windows all the time....
Don't encourage the game manufacturers to come up with some silly mini-OS (linux-based or not) just to play their games - that's a horrendous concept. *ponders* although it definitely would make SOME groups happy, sin
You got my hopes up :( (Score:5, Interesting)
Electronic arts probably pisses me off the most as they make a few changes to Id's engines (MOHAA) and neglect to release binaries for Linux. Yes, I am aware of the port on icculus.org, but EA could have done a port of MOHAA long ago.
Re:You got my hopes up :( (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Games developers would not choose to create games for the PC anyway, given the choice. They prefer the less pirate-able, higher revenue console platforms but cannot afford to ignore the huge "Windows PC" market but don't financially have to give a damn about we "minority" Linux users.
2. So much money is spent on commercial games development these days that any title has to guarantee high sales before it's released. This means that most titles follow popular formulas - like football/soccer games in Europe that are always big sellers - meaning that the games market is bland and unoriginal with little exception (IMHO despite being an avid games player myself). It follows that with no interest in original games in the first place, they can continue to follow their previous strategies of developing only for certain platforms.
3. Because games development costs are so high, APIs like DirectX greatly simplify the development process and allow games companies to cut costs quite considerably since they no longer need to worry about driver-level concerns of sound and video cards, joysticks, etc. They therefore prefer to develop DirectX games (and therefore Windows-only games) for the PC.
4. Games that are ported to Linux fall into one of two categories:
a. Those that use OpenGL APIs, which exist on Windows, Linux and possibly other OSes meaning that multi-platform development is possible from the outset - as was the case with Quake 1/2/3, Unreal Tournament and the games that use their grapics engines, or:
b. Originally DirectX-based games that companies like Loki ported for Linux (Heroes of Might & Magic III, Alpha Centauri, Civilisation Call To Power, etc). My guess is that Loki managed to license the games for a low enough cost to believe they could get enough Linux user sales to justify the time and expense of porting to Linux although this was, unfortunately, not the case in the end.
The upshot of all of this leaves a "chicken and egg" situation - games developers won't create for Linux until there are enough Linux users (who are also willing to pay for games) and many people won't use Linux without games being available.
All I can say is that the games market is dull anyway at the moment and I've personally had more fun going into my back-catalogue of older games and playing some of those recently - with free tools like DosBox and Wine, you have a chance of playing some of those within Linux and a lot of the others have been ported to Linux natively due to Open Sourcing of various older good games like Duke Nukem, Doom, Quake, etc. Not forgetting the emulators to play Amiga, NES & SNES, etc. games in Linux.
I'm looking forward to Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 (with hopefiully native Linux support) and the only other game I'd like to see Open Sourced for Linux is Total Annihilation.
Parent
Do you want to know why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of it is using Microsoft API's.
Some of it is using things like Bink, which didn't have a version for Linux until recently and it will cost you another $2k or so to provide a Linux version for sale or download (Both of which was the reason there were no in-game cutscenes for NWN...).
Some of it is that they have to provide testing and, at minimum, deal with support calls even if they explicitly state that it is unsupported.
Some of it is that there is a perception that writing to Windows is cross-platform enough since it's "portable" to the X-Box. (Which is flatly wrong...)
Some of it is that there's the perception that writing to just Windows is easier and that writing cross-platform code is more difficult because it requires careful dilligent work to make the game work on all platforms (using the argument that there's different capabilities on each of the same and you have to code for each... Again, all of which, is pretty much wrong...)
With all the obvious and percieved expenses, most of the publishing houses don't really see any profit in producing Linux versions of anything. In the case of Id, Bioware, S2 Games, and Epic (not to be confused with Epic Interactive of the main subject...), they are studios going out on a limb and taking extra risks because they believe in Linux or they think that it's got some potential.
We can't fix the real expenses and risks- the studios and publishers will have to weigh those risks against potential profits and decide if they're going to do the version, let someone like LGP handle it for them, or not do one at all.
I'm endeavoring to talk to the percieved expenses and risks that are opposite to the way things really are. I'm scheduled to be giving a 30-minute talk this month at GDC on the subject.
Parent
Link Ho (Score:3, Informative)
Offical Site: Here [northland-game.com]
Blurb:
The overall gameplay element from Cultures 2 that still exists in Northland is in the "Godsim" style of play.
You are responsible for watching over and assigning professions to your Viking civilians and building their culture up.
-I can't believe my boss pays me to do this... *SNAP* (@$^#ing daydreams)
future of Linux gaming.... (Score:4, Informative)
Where to look? (Score:2)
Is there a list of commercial game publishers that make native Linux games?
Re:Where to look? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.tuxgames.com/
I've purchased three loki ports (Heroes3, Myth2, and Heavy Gear 2) and all three are excellent. Checkout http://www.happypenguin.org/
for links to some great opensource games.
Enjoy,
Wow, misleading. (Score:4, Interesting)
Have you played this already? (Score:4, Interesting)
The game is a case study of the effects of extreme co-dependency. All the villagers need you too badly, they need you to tell them to get shoes, where wood is, where tools and weapons are, takes a few hours just to get the tech-tree up enough to be able to survive some battles.
Detailed to the nth degree, but I don't think having some things being autonymous would of been so bad. Like let them find their own mates instead of the player being forced to play cupid, things like Populous were successful in achieving that. Have a Norse god cast a decree "Go forth and hump like rabbits!" to have more children. Instead of telling each female in the village to produce an offspring.
I played the demo for a few weeks, it's not a bad game, just too tedious for my tastes.
If you only buy one game for linux this year (you're lucky, you've got more than one to choose from this year
Re:Bah fuck that (Score:5, Interesting)
Anybody got a copy they're not using? Please?
Parent
Re:Bah fuck that (Score:3, Funny)
BWA! HAHAHAHAHAA!
Re:Bah fuck that (Score:5, Interesting)
And, is it legal? (who's going to come after you for doing it?)
Parent
Re:Bah fuck that (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember that the consumers are not the only people who "lost" in the dissapperance of Loki. Loki's investors were also harmed, and although they will have better luck getting water from a stone, they feel that even a dollar from Loki's residual property should be made, it should go to them. The footed the bill for Loki's downfall, and they should reap any (even a miserable) profit.
Morally it is less decided, but legally you are still depriving Loki's investors of money they lay claim to. But these guys won't want to loose another dollar in ressurecting Loki, they are holding out for a (phantom) company to realize what they have is valueable (and buy it off of them for millions).
The main reason this hasn't happened yet is probably because what they have isn't nearly worth what they want. In other words, they're dreaming.
Parent
Re:Bah fuck that (Score:2)
Re:Bah fuck that (Score:2)
Well it wasnt really completed, but most of the porting was done. There was a major bug that made the game unplayable, and would have been fixable if they could have gotten the source for the "game code."
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:5, Funny)
Linux does not equal commercial games?
Yeah, that's insightful. Next time you'll be telling us that Linux does not equal tasty fruit.
"Linux != tasty fruit"
Parent
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:5, Insightful)
Although this is obviously a troll, there is a little truth to it (at the very least, truth in the minds of game publishers, where it counts most).
However on the other hand, there are countless thousands of tech-smart gamer kids out there who would not hesitate to give Linux a try if only they could play games on it. So the argument is really invalid, since the demand for Linux games is not constant (presumably too low a constant to justify Linux game production, although this might be arguable too), but in this case directly related to the supply.
And besides, I don't know what this other guy is talking about; Linux is some damn tasty fruit if you ask me.
Parent
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:4, Interesting)
Rather, according to Epic's Mark Rein, "Sometimes you've just got to do the right thing
Parent
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:4, Informative)
Epic will be bringing Divine Divinity (GameSpy runner up for PC RPG game of 2002) to alternative operating systems as well. Here's hoping that LGP gets to publish it.
Parent
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:3, Insightful)
While Linux users do not make up the majority of computer users, I would make a wild ass guess that the majority of Linux users are very probably gamers. To make an even more totally wild ass guess, if we say there are several hundred million computer users out there, and 2% are Linux users, this would make a few million potential
Re:Linux != commercial games (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh, go ahead and troll. I'm still not convinced Loki Games was a fair trial.
I HATED, HATED, HATED the version of their website I saw. The Elfin-friendly woodland green text on brown of equal chroma was so impossibly hard for me to read, I actually navigated their site by lynx browser to read game descriptions. I should try the wayback machine to see whether I can archive a copy of one of their pages as an example of how _not_ to be a web designer.
The ports themselves were another issue......
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:5, Informative)
* the slaying of Balder
Parent
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:3, Informative)
Hel is the one who really messed up the whole Baldr situation (by not letting Baldr of out of the underworld until after Ragnorak.)
I'd say that makes Loki a bad guy (or at least a bad parent :-)
His kids were brats who eventually destroyed the whole world!
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:2)
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:5, Informative)
Traditionally Loki isn't really a god. He's Odin's blood brother, which is why he's allowed among the gods, even though he will play a central role in their downfall.
And indeed, all gods are actually mortal. At Ragnarok, the gods are killed. Odin by Fenrir, Thor by Jormungand, Tyr by Surt... Balder's already been killed by Hod, although that was really Loki's fault.
But though they're mortal, they can come back from the dead, as Balder will do after Ragnarok. So being immortal isn't as useful as it may seem..
Parent
Re:Loki a Norse God? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sounds Familiar... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:WineX (Score:4, Informative)
It really depends what kind of game you want to play. Looking at their supported titles list:
5(Works perfectly): 7. One of those being Diablo 2, which has been out for almost 5 years, and 2 of the other being Warcraft 3+expansion. And another being a Hoyle Card Game collection.
4(Playable with minor irritations): 278. Including such gems as "Blair Witch, Volume 2: The Legend of Coffin Rock", "Putt-Putt and Pep's Balloon-O-Rama", "Revenge of Marjorie the Chicken", or "Hello Kitty: Cutie World".
As you can see on closer inspection, the vast majority of the games with these ratings fall into one of two categories:
1) FPS games.
2) Games from at least 2-5 years ago with massive followings, like Star/Warcraft, or Everquest.
3) Obscure games that almost nobody does or would ever want to play.
The rest of the list, ranging from "Playable with major irritations" to "May install but there is no gameplay", down to "Does not install and does not work" contains, at last inspection, around 591 titles, or more than twice the amount of working titles. Take from that what you will. If all you want to play is games on their "5" or "4" lists, then it may be worth it to you.
And finally, how much do you have to pay for it?
$5 per month with three month minimum for access to updated binaries of the software. I believe only the subscription version contains code to work with stuff like special CD copy protection, but that may be different now - I subscribed a couple years back, and cancelled my subscription when I couldn't get any game I owned working to satisfaction.
And yes, if someone is looking at my post history, this is stuff I posted a few weeks ago [slashdot.org].
Parent
Re:Pandering...of the worst kind (Score:2)
Re:You must be new here (Score:2)
Flamebait? Who flamed me?
ohhhh, flaming SLASHdot!
*bows head & makes scrapings*
so solly, so solly...*backs out throneroom*
"I was reading Slashdot when being a Slashdot reader MEANT something!"
Mythical experience!! (Score:2, Funny)