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Announcing Cooperative Linux
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Jan 25, 2004 05:03 PM
from the it's-real-friendly-like dept.
from the it's-real-friendly-like dept.
evilmf writes "Well... I was on my daily "relaxing" read of the LKML when I've found an interesting announce about "Cooperative Linux", in this message from Dan Aloni. It allows you to run Linux on an unmodified Win2000/XP system, just launching another app. Dan says that Cooperative Linux is 'is stable enough (on some common hardware configurations) for running a fully functional KNOPPIX/Debian system on Windows,' and provides some screenshots in the project homepage."
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Cool (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cool (Score:5, Insightful)
The power of this is that it will allow people to try and experience linux without complicated duel-booting or format/installing.
More and more people started using linux when bootable stand-alone versions were developed. This will support this boost many times over.
Think about it. Hack kiddies hear that linux is the way to go. They install it over/within windows... and god forbid, actually realize that linux is a great tool. When I was growing up, I had to limp along with my OS-of-the-day box while my dad was protective of his little system. With this system, future linux kiddies and parents can live in harmony.
If people believe that they can do their daily activities with their linux programs, then a proportion of these will dump the windows portion to get the performance boost.
This allows users to ease into linux.
Brillant.
AC
Parent
Re:Cool (Score:5, Funny)
So, you press the power button and whatever OSs are installed on your system fight to the death to see which one gets to boot? I like it. Does it have an interactive stat up mode too? I can see it now, on old hardware it would be a 2d mortal combat type thing, and on my new opteron server it would have DOA 3d thing going on. The only question is which charicter do you use for windows, and which for linux?
Parent
Re:Cool (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cool (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cool (Score:4, Interesting)
Explorer is horrible at doing what it should do (besides surfing the web which it doesn't do right either thanks to flubbed standards). It can't do tabbed browsing (konqueror), you can't split the window into multiple frames to make ftp'ing and file management easier (konqueror), if you visit a website you can't go recursively up the website's root tree (konqueror) among many other things.
I guess it's not really fair since windows is so far behind at this point. MacOS and KDE both support better features for file management and web browsing than Explorer does. Just wait until Longhorn is out I guess, by then Microsoft will have reaped the other apps' harvests and make it look new by painting it a different color.
By the way, you make alot of suppositions but have zero facts backing you up. Your opinion is pure conjecture.
Parent
Re:Cool (Score:3, Interesting)
Excuse me?
Have you used a recent KDE desktop lately?
Sorry, but your assertion that it's "half baked" really leaves some room for laughter.
HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW!
Now, that's done, I feel much better. I absolutely *LOVE*
Embrace and extend (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Embrace and extend (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone think redmond will allow this to gain a significant user base? Or will they do an XBox and nobble it with a bug fix, where the bug is defined as "runs linux"
I know which way I'm betting...
This is quite possibly the greatest thing 2 happen (Score:5, Informative)
I get the question quite alot. "Can linux run in Windows"... To which I must roll my eyes and explain that it's another OS.
This is going to be very helpful in convincing people to run linux.
I can just picture myself booting knoppix to make my (Anti-PowerPoint) presentations at school.
Gr8 Stuff!
Re:This is quite possibly the greatest thing 2 hap (Score:3, Funny)
http://www.ubergeek.tv/switchlinux/ [ubergeek.tv]
Requires flash, but it's worth it.
Windows users can now use more free apps! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Windows users can now use more free apps! (Score:5, Interesting)
If this gets the attention that I think it deserves, this could literally shake apart the entire foundation of the folks who continue to decry Linux. Now a savvy admin who wants to use the Linux versions of Windows crapware can do so, without reinstalling the OS and incurring the wrath of the Microsofties. He gets the best of both worlds: high-quality free software running on top of the "sanctioned" OS. The only drawback to this thing, IMO, is that it may stifle the efforts of people who are trying to port some of the more sophisticated Linux apps to Windows, and may simply give up when they hear that because of this, no porting is required. But I doubt that will be a major issue.
Here's to hoping this project goes somewhere!
Parent
Re:Windows users can now use more free apps! (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at it the other way : if great linux apps are not ported to windows, but instead are delivered with an easy install of colinux+a small distro (the keyword here will be easy !) then more people will learn to know linux. And one day perhaps install it as 2nd OS on their machine, from which the step to primary OS is a small one !
Parent
Windows users, repeat after me: (Score:4, Interesting)
Users of Windows, you have nothing to lose but your chains!
Parent
Re:Windows users can now use more free apps! (Score:3, Insightful)
great for n00bs ! (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows Services for Unix... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Windows Services for Unix... (Score:3, Interesting)
OT: Re:Windows Services for Unix... (Score:4, Informative)
I'll second that. I installed SFU to try it out, and found it to be so bad as to be endlessly entertaining. The high points of my interaction with it were this (the first line indicates my discovery that tab completion didn't work):... and the time I typed
Good times, good times. Also it broke cygwin's emacs-style line editing (presumably by changing some terminal-related DLL) and WinCVS (by setting EDITOR=vi systemwide). Fortunately both of these problems went away when I uninstalled it.
Parent
Nice, but not ideal (Score:2, Insightful)
Unfourtuantely (Score:5, Informative)
Also, coLinux currently lacks documentation.
If you don't speak Japenese, you might have some difficulties using this software to it's fullest.
Re:Unfourtuantely (Score:3, Informative)
UMDOS (Score:2)
Re:UMDOS (Score:3, Informative)
Interesting to watch this (Score:4, Interesting)
Wine [winehq.com] developers could use this compare apps running natively and those running under wine side-by-side.
Stability? (Score:5, Insightful)
What I am wondering about is quite how stable it is possible to get something like this.
We all know how Windows assumes it is the only OS installed, when dealing with things like disk partitions, MBR's etc. How does the Windows NT kernel like sharing Ring 0 with Linux?
Overall this is an excellent innovation for Linux to move forward. I suppose you could chart the increase of Linux "market share" as follows.
1.) Linus and his friends
2.) Early Distributions
3.) Redhat makes inroads
4.) Live CD's (Knoppix et al)
5.) CoLinux
You have gone from experimental boxes only, to dual booting to Live CD's to try Linux out (very slow...)
If this can come close to Linux alone in speed, then this is a major step forward.
No more lengthy installs with dual booting etc.
If a linux fan wants to show a Windows user what its all about then they can hopefully download one EXE and go.
Pity I haven't got a windows partition so I can test it.
Re:Stability? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Stability? (Score:5, Interesting)
That should be no problem. Vmware already locks partitions or even serial and USB devices for it's own use. Obviously you cannot share these partitions or devides with both operating systems, but one at a time is no problem at all.
You have gone from experimental boxes only, to dual booting to Live CD's to try Linux out (very slow...)
I don't know about really slow. CDROM are definately not _that_ slow anymore. My Dell laptop has no problem at all running knoppix, including sound, firewire, networking, usb support. As long as you have enough memory (256 at least, 512 mb runs great) it is not slow after startup either. And compared with a complete installation of linux it takes a lot less time. Upgrading is easy too
If a linux fan wants to show a Windows user what its all about then they can hopefully download one EXE and go.
That I must agree with. It would take a bit of pain out of that process. And they can still keep their freakin' MSN messenger running in the background.
Parent
Great about 2 weeks 2 late (Score:2, Interesting)
I wish I would have come accross this aboput 2 damm weeks ago.
sweet (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's get this over with... (Score:4, Funny)
Finally, installing Linux takes only one click!
In the future, please refer to it as GNU/Windows...
inter-OS communications (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:inter-OS communications (Score:3, Informative)
BORG Linux? ... (Score:3, Funny)
OEM (Score:4, Interesting)
The can advertise their box as coming with hundreds of free software programs by throwing in a knoppix cd.
Best of both worlds for the OEMs
Predictions, anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
We probably need a sweepstake for predicting when Slashdot will have the story on how many operating systems have been run virtually on one machine.
Linux running vmWare'd Windows which in turn is running a Debian distro under coLinux, which in turn is running Fedora as a user-mode Linux instance, in turn running FreeBSD as a Xen virtual machine instance... oh, the horrors
Serious Doubts... (Score:5, Insightful)
Many projects have attempted to achieve this goal. It's taken quite a bit of time so far. This project has taken a short cut though by simply letting the Windows kernel and Linux kernel run side-by-side in kernel mode. Traditional approaches don't allow this.
That's because if anything goes wrong in the Windows kernel, you risk trashing your Linux kernel the same applies for the Linux kernel trashing the Windows kernel.
Before you go and so Linux never crashes or Windows never crashes, what you're relying on is that this particular project has enough of an understanding of both kernels that they can cover every circumstance where there would be a negative interaction.
I'm not saying this can't work, I'm just saying I'd be very careful about running it on anything I cared about.
Re:Serious Doubts... (Score:3, Funny)
Phew - that was close. Thanks man - I could have had a catastrophe on my hands tomorrow.
Porting to other platforms like OS X and solaris (Score:5, Interesting)
Emulation and virtualization are the coolest technologies I've ever seen.
anyone with compiled binary? (Score:3, Informative)
Notes:
This is a very preliminary source-only release.
It is mostly for peer review, but with some effort it can be compiled and run.
Please note that Cooperative Linux is not yet stable on some processors and hardware configurations.*
Slow day? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hardly. This is a very interesting and useful project, with rather deeper implications for virtual server operation. Rather than requiring a pile of specialized code to emulate a machine, you just give the other OS a little private corner of its own, allowing the host OS to give it resources whenever they're avaliable (and how nice it is about giving those resources is easy to manage). Presto, huge performance increase.
It'd be a slow day if we saw, say, another article about SCO, an article about Microsoft 'blocking spam', some nostalgic whining about lack of innovation in games, a few drab articles about nothing in particular...
Kind of like yesterday.
Parent
Re:Slow day? (Score:3, Interesting)
By constantly switching the machine's state between the host OS state and and the coLinux kernel state, coLinux is given full control of the physical machine's MMU (i.e, paging and protection) in its own specially allocated address space, and is able to act just like a native kernel, achieving almost the same performance and functionality that can be expected from a regular Linux which could have ran on the same machine standalone.
Since coLinux uses the sa
Re:already been done before. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:already been done before. (Score:2, Interesting)
What I want to know is, will it let me do 'dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/disk.img' on windows (which cygwin doesn't allow)
Windows 2000's horribly broken floppy support is *really* annoying.
Re:already been done before. (Score:5, Informative)
Windows Services for UNIX also suffers from the same problem, it also tries to be POSIX complaint, but its POSIX defficiencies match neither Linux nor Cygwin.
Parent
Re:Rootless? (Score:5, Informative)
The point is, if you can find a rootless X server for MS Windows, you can do so. The only one I'm aware of is eXceed [hummingbird.com] (although I don't keep up with them because I have no need for them). It's commercial, but is usually cheaper or free through a university or college.
Parent
Re:Rootless? (Score:5, Informative)
From the Cygwin bash prompt, launch:
XWin -multiwindow &
There is a startxwin.bat that does that and that is bundled with Cygwin/XFree86.
Parent
Re:Rootless? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Different? (Score:5, Informative)
What we're talking about with coLinux is the ability to run native Linux binaries as is with no need for recompilation.
Parent