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SCO Extorting Unixware Licenses to Linux Users?

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Jul 22, 2003 09:28 AM
from the but-i-don't-want-unixware dept.
An anonymous user noted that SCO will sell you Unixware if you want to "Legitimize" your usage of Linux at your company. If you buy the license, you will be held blameless for your transgressions against SCO! Pricing has yet to be determined for the special licenses, but I suspect that for any value greater than zero, there are going to be a fair number of angry users.
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  • Uhm.. (Score:4, Informative)

    by GearheadX (414240) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:31AM (#6498972)
    Didn't we hear about this yesterday? This isn't exactly new, news. How about waiting for a new bit on it until we actually have some new information. Like IBM or some other simliarly large corporation bending SCO's back the wrong way until it crumples like tin foil?

    Seriously.

    We know that SCO is being a naughty boy.

    We don't need to be reminded about it every day.
    • by TrekkieGod (627867) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:44AM (#6499137) Homepage Journal
      Didn't we hear about this yesterday? This isn't exactly new, news.

      I see that you are new amongst us. Welcome. What you're referring to is what we slashdotters call a "dupe". Please report to the re-education center where you will learn many things including, but not limited to, "profit lists", and jokes about non longer in existance soviet nations.

    • Re:Uhm.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bigjocker (113512) * on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:51AM (#6499221) Homepage
      We have heard some of it, but mostly from user's comments. The article from this morning was focused on code and a way to track some contributions by Caldera employees to the kernel.

      I for one welcome any news regarding this issue. Slashdot is known for it's huge Linux audience and is very handy to have a unified source of information and comments.

      Why bother? A lot of us work on companies that use Linux (myself included), even some of us have helped our employers move from proprietary Unices to Linux (myself included), and in my case I also work as a independent consultant and have helped a lot of clients to make UN*X->Linux and WIN->Linux transitions (I make all the solutions using free software and license them under the GPL to my clients, if they want to redistribute the system or a modified version of it they must release the source, if not they are free to keep it secret) so this SCO issue is affecting (and has a lot of potential to affect really badly) my job and bussiness.

      You never have too much information, and in any case, you can always not click on the link and let it pass. A lot of us even want to see more stories about this issue.
  • Hrm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Overly Critical Guy (663429) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:31AM (#6498974)
    This couldn't have been edited onto the previous SCO story this morning?

    It's getting to be a bit much, especially since attention is what they're after in the first place, Slashdot...
  • by cruppel (603595) * on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:31AM (#6498976) Homepage
    It will now offer ... run-time, binary use of Linux for all commercial users of Linux based on the 2.4 kernel and later.

    Ok, maybe I don't understand, but isn't supplying a binary-only copy of Linux w/o source the exact opposite of every ideal GNU and the FSF stand for? Maybe I read the article wrong, if anyone can clue me in I'd appreciate. Is this a violation of the GPL?

    • by TheRaven64 (641858) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:40AM (#6499082) Homepage Journal
      Not quite. They are not selling or licensing the binary (which would be in violation of the GPL, unless they accepted the GPL in which case they could only sell one of these licenses then the person who bought it could give away as many as they wanted). What they are doing is selling indemnity frm prosecution.

      They are still claiming that the Linux kernel (or whatever part of SCO/Linux they are claiming today) contains their code, and that it is being used illegally, however if you give them money then they will ignore your violation. I'm not convinced that this is legal, since it sounds a lot like blackmail to me, but that doesn't seem to stop SCO.

      • by Troy Baer (1395) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @10:26AM (#6499624) Homepage
        They are still claiming that the Linux kernel (or whatever part of SCO/Linux they are claiming today) contains their code, and that it is being used illegally, however if you give them money then they will ignore your violation. I'm not convinced that this is legal, since it sounds a lot like blackmail to me, but that doesn't seem to stop SCO.

        I'm not sure if it's legal either, but it sure reeks of a protection racket to me. (It's especially galling given that they haven't even established in court that they do in fact own what they claim to.) I've complained to my state attourney general about it. I'd like to think they'll look into it, but my state AG is one of the ones who caved on the MS antitrust settlement...

        --Troy
    • by ajs (35943) <ajs&ajs,com> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:53AM (#6499261) Homepage Journal
      They are saying that they will license your existing binary version of Linux. They will not grant you a source license, however.

      This is perfectly legit. Only SCO's silly and rather toothless claims are bogus, the licensing idea is fine. Keep in mind that if SCO's claims were true, the GPL goes poof on Linux, and no one has a license to distribute. What's more, everyone would have to destroy their existing copies, since they got it in a manner that is legally equivalent to downloading a copyrighted song from Gnutella.

      All SCO is saying is that THEY won't come after you for continuing to use Linux, if you pay them up front. It's a protection racket, but a legal one.

      Still, pointless and ignorable. See my previous comments on why [slashdot.org]
        • by eric76 (679787) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:31AM (#6500486)

          You are quite correct.

          The possession of a work that infringes on a copyright does not appear to be a violation of the copyright laws at all.

          So, even in the unlikely chance that SCO was able to demonstrate a violation of their copyrights, their actions might be against distributors, and they would have no right of action against the rest of us.

          If there was merit to their claims, then there would be some small possibility that downloading the distribution instead of buying it at the store might count as making a copy and would then be an infringement. And so would making multiple copies of the distribution. But since there is nothing I can find in Title 17 about limiting software to a single computer, I bet you could still install Linux on a large number of machines from a single distribution set and not infringe.

          As Eben Moglen (a law professor at Columbia University and general counsel to FSF) is quoted as saying:

          Users don't need a license to use copyrighted programs anymore than they need to pay a copyright fee before reading Gone with the Wind. If you copy, distribute, or modify copyrighted material, then you can be in copyright violation,


          But even if SCO did prevail on copyright issues, they might still not be able to go after users who make copies, distribute, or modify the material since for all practical purposes, it appears that we have the authority to do so.

          I think SCO is going to have to show serious evidence that there is a copyright violation to remove that apparent authority.

  • by iapetus (24050) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:31AM (#6498977) Homepage

    Even if the price is zero, then I'm personally likely to be angry enough as it is. This is all about accepting that SCO is in the right, and until such time as they've taken this through court and proven that to be the case, I have no intention of doing anything to suggest that they have the right to impose restrictions on my use of Linux.

    If they're truly that confident of their position, they should be rushing through the court case, and then asking people to license Unixware, with a suitable judgement behind them to back it up.

    As it is, their case is built mostly on hot air, so I can see their motivation in pushing for payment in advance.

    • by Shiblon (25972) <shiblon@gm a i l . c om> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:43AM (#6499109) Homepage
      Even if the price is zero, then I'm personally likely to be angry enough as it is. This is all about accepting that SCO is in the right...

      Actually, it's a bit more than that. Since nothing has yet been proven and all of this is allegation, isn't this just a form of blackmail? Isn't that illegal? Here is a definition of "blackmail", which I find very interesting indeed:

      Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.

      It isn't much of a stretch to see how today the threat of "exposing a criminal act or discreditable information" has the same effect as "threatening to sue the pants off of someone for alleged and unproven wrongdoing." Perhaps even more interesting is the relationship of this next definition to SCO's current approach:

      Tribute formerly paid to freebooters along the Scottish border for protection from pillage.

      (All of these from dictionary.com [dictionary.com]) That last one is all about what SCO wants: "We're the pirates, pay us and we won't harm you."

      I may be wrong (hey, it's happened before), but I find it interesting that the people who shout most loudly about their legal rights are often those quickest to disregard the rights of others.

      • by jd (1658) <imipakNO@SPAMyahoo.com> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:26AM (#6500417) Homepage Journal
        #include "IANAL.h"


        I believe the "formal" definition is "demands with menaces", where "demands" and "menaces" are roughly the definition you gave, though perhaps with a little more scope.


        (eg: neither the demands nor the menaces have to be actually stated. They can be implied, provided it is reasonable to interpret the implication as an actual threat of some kind, unless the person coughs up.)


        SCO certainly seems to qualify under the "menaces" part. Just because they've not named a sum, or directly stated that Linux users would be prosecuted, is irrelevent. Their action towards IBM, and their association of Linux with illegal activity, may well be sufficient.


        The demands may also be inferred, from their repeated reference to SCO UnixWare licenses and license fees.


        While I think it likely that SCO has enough money to blast any suit a /. reader is likely to bring, the fact nonetheless remains that SCO's practice is skirting the edge of illegality and may well have crossed that line.

      • by tomhudson (43916) <hudson AT videotron DOT ca> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:29AM (#6500463) Journal
        <quote>What we need is a kernel contributer with sufficient testicular fortitude (and bankroll) to do the right thing. </quote>

        I disagree. Sometimes, it takes more balls to bide your time and let your opponent keep shoving his size 11's into his mouth, and this looks lik one of those times.

        Please consider:

        1. SCO keeps making all sorts of public statements that are all over the map. They don't realize that, the more they say, the more ammunition they give to their detractors, who are legion (that's you, me, IBM, Novell, etc.)

        2. In contract negociations, he who speaks first looses. By not dragging this into the courts, we're doing 2 things:

          • Showing that we're taking the moral high ground, (so we look better than they do, with their sue-everybody mentality) rather than alienating people who are confused, fed up, or intimidated by legal procedings

          • Giving them every opportunity to reveal the so-called "misappropriated code", which they continue to refuse to do.

          Both of these actions tend to reflect badly on SCO, and make our community look better (when you want to win in the court of public opinion, which is how we're going to increase Linux penetration, you don't want to come off as a bunch of smelly hippy geeks)

        3. The longer this drags on, the more likely that "interesting stuff" will start oozing out of the woodwork. Look what's happened so far:

          • SCO had what they claimed was the offending code reviewed by a non-programmer, which ended up raising more questions than it answered.

          • There's now a claim extent that SCO violated IP rights (stole code) when they developed their Linux compatability code

          • As of yesterday, they were still distributing GPL'ed Linux on their FTP servers. Think about it ... they said that they were unaware that Linux was (allegedly) in violation of their IP rights, and that they would stop distributing it ... WTF, anybody?

        The pros (IBM, etc.) are keeping their mouths shut, because that's the professional approach. They've adopted the Kennedy approach:
        1. Never complain
        2. Never explain
        3. Get even
        I'm not saying that we shouldn't be raising a stink here; I'm just saying that, since this will take years to resolve through the courts, let's concentrate instead on winning the minds and hearts of the people who make technology-related decisions (purchasing agents, CTOs, etc). Then, when SCO [ goes bell up || is investigated for investor fraud || has to recant || looses in court ] we'll be able to laugh. Don't forget, this may never get to the point where a judge has to make a decision.
  • is it possible that microsoft are paying sco to become 'most hated business ever' so that we stop beating up on the redmond boys? i'm running out of logical alternatives for this story. i mean... does sco really believe that anyone believes that linux belongs to them?
  • by eXtro (258933) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:34AM (#6498996) Homepage
    whatever that means. Even if I ran a business and I believed that SCO had a strong enough case to cause me worry I wouldn't buy into this. Say my business runs RedHat, I purchase a license and I'm held blameless. Fine, but RedHat itself isn't, so SCO goes and sues RedHat at a later date.


    A few things can happen. 1) SCO loses, my license purchase was pointless then but I'm only out some money. 2) SCO wins and RedHat pays the licensing fees. My license purchase was pointless again because RedHat's aquisition of a license covers me. Not only that but RedHat will past the cost on to the consumers. 3) SCO wins and RedHat can't afford the licensing fee. RedHat goes out of business and I'm left with an orphaned product.


    Basically unless I roll my own internal variant of linux I don't see any positive benefit to purchasing the license unless they intend to go after each business individually in court.

    • by nightsweat (604367) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:38AM (#6499059)
      3) SCO wins and RedHat can't afford the licensing fee. RedHat goes out of business and I'm left with an orphaned product.

      But that's the beauty of Open Source. You can't be truly orphaned.

  • What about a license to indemnify me from trangressions of SCO against Linux..oh wait IBM gives those out for free!

    Thanks IBM!
  • by levik (52444) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:35AM (#6499016) Homepage
    Having submitted a patent for biological respiratory systems, we have gone back and looked over some evidence, and are pretty confident that the majority of the world population (not limited to homo sapiens) may be infringing on our intellectual property.

    Pending the outcome of our patent application we are offering carbon-based lifeforms to protect themselves from possible litigation by lisencing out technology for a low upfront fee based on the cell count of the organism.

    By chosing to forgo purchasing a lisence, you may be opening yourself to a potential injunctive action down the road.

  • by ivanmarsh (634711) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:36AM (#6499029)
    If I buy this SCO license it means I own Unix right? Do I own Linux? Netware is thrown in there somewhere too isn't it? What about the Brooklyn bridge?

    You can have my Linux when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
  • by Noryungi (70322) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:37AM (#6499038) Homepage Journal
    What part of "GNU is not UNIX" don't you understand, SCO??

    There... I feel better... ;-)
  • by yamla (136560) <chris@@@hypocrite...org> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:38AM (#6499063)
    Rather than buying a license, why not just go to their ftp site and download the source code to the Linux kernel? SCO is still distributing the Linux kernel sources under the GPL.
  • by opkool (231966) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:40AM (#6499080) Homepage
    See it here. [redhat.com]

    A sample of this, in perfect "Management-Speak":

    * Do I need to buy a SCO license?

    SCO has not demonstrated that any infringement exists, nor has it established that it owns derivative works in UNIX. Nothing has been proven to establish that such a license is needed.

    Which, translated into English says:

    * Do I need to buy a SCO license?

    Not at all

    You go, RedHat!

    Peace!

  • by walterbyrd (182728) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:42AM (#6499100)
    At what point can SCO finally be charged with fraud, extortion, and stock manipulation? When can SCO at least be sued in a civil court?

    This is the most blantant racket I have ever witnessed. And the USA legal system seems to be completely incapible of doing anything about it. Frankly it is beginning to look like another huge failure of the USA legal system.

    Germany shut down SCO a long time ago. Germany said put up or shut up - show us some evidence or stop making claims. Predictably, SCO ran away with it's tail between it's legs.

    I have always been a bit patriotic. Honorably discharged from the US Air Force and all. It pains me to see how patheticly inept the US legal system really is.
        • by walterbyrd (182728) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @10:51AM (#6499959)
          >>As for the legal system, there is no wonder it breaks when you have no faith in it.>Faith is required to get something to work, so obviously something more than just the system is broken.>Blaiming the system is childish and naive.

          Why is it so completely impossible that the system *is* responsible? The system in Germany worked, why not the USA? Maybe there are problems in the USA legal system that need to be repaired. Why is this point of view "childish and naive" ??

  • No need to pay. (Score:5, Informative)

    by mcgroarty (633843) <brian AT brianm DOT org> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:44AM (#6499141) Homepage
    SCO has acknowledged that they make claims against 2.4, not 2.2. They also haven't yet made the specific claims public.

    For desktops and servers, stay the course, but do your research now and be sure you're able to step back to 2.2 should SCO's claims prove valid. With 2.2, you give up some performance and compatibility with a few newer peripherals. But ducking down to 2.2 while the allegedly offending code is removed from 2.4 will cover your business. Be very surprised if it takes more than just a few weeks for an untainted 2.4 branch to be released.

    The one thing you should not do is to purchase an SCO license without your legal department fully reviewing the terms of the license. By entering into a license agreement with SCO, your company could find itself vulnerable in all kinds of new ways. If SCO is turning into a pure litigation company, you don't want to be on their customer list!

  • by ajs (35943) <ajs&ajs,com> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:47AM (#6499170) Homepage Journal
    Check out this posting [slashdot.org] from yesterday. You can download a GPLed copy of the Linux kernel from SCO, if you feel you need a license from them.

    Problem solved, let's go back to writing code.
  • by PenguiN42 (86863) <taylok2&alum,rpi,edu> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:48AM (#6499187) Journal
    Let's suppose that SCO's claim is valid and IBM put some code in Linux that shouldn't have been there.

    Why are the end users responsible for licensing SCO's code? They got the product (the linux kernel), under a license from the linux developers, and they're following the license they recieved the product from. If there was a license violation, it's on the developer's head (in this case, IBM).

    Think about it: If closed source software stole code and sold it, could the company that originally owned the code sue all the users of that code for violating their license? This doesn't make sense to me -- they'd sue the offending closed source company, and perhaps have them issue some sort of recall or licensing program for the code, but they wouldn't go oafter individuals who thought they bought the software legitimately...

    How about another example: if a magazine puts some copyrighted content that they're not supposed to use in their magazine, is the copyright owner going to go after every single person who bought the magazine? No! They're going to go after the distributer, who did the illegal *copying* in the first place!

    I really don't understand why companies are giving money to SCO under their legal pressure, when it seems like they have absolutely no legal leg to stand on.

    anyone know the real legal implications here? IANAL, Obviously :P
  • by rindeee (530084) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:49AM (#6499197)
    ...things are not always as they appear.

    I am confident (though possibly wrong of course) that SCO is doing ALL of this for one reason and one reason only. Stock price manipulation. Look at the following issues and contrast them with the timing on this whole fiasco.

    52 week stock price of SCO (SCOX)

    Price of stock after each insane press release (while SCO has yet to show anything of substance, press releases feed the hungry speculative buyers out there).

    Issuance of stock options at very low ($.6x) prices.

    Exercising of options.

    Sale of stock from exercised options.

    I mean come on, most of these guys got options when the stock was at $.66 just before all of this craziness started. Then they crank up the stock price (fueled by nothing more than baseless accusations in the form of press releases) to $10-$12/share, exercise and dump. Where the heck is the SEC on this!!!

    I believe that basically the execs at SCO new the ship was going down. They are doing what they're doing to squeeze what blood they can out of the turnip that is SCO. Once they have gotten what they can from stock games, they'll pull an "Oops, I guess we were wrong about that whole Linux intellectual property thing.", turn out the lights and call it quits...money in the bank.

    Anyone disagree?

    ER
    • by walterbyrd (182728) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @10:56AM (#6500015)
      >>most of these guys got options when the stock was at $.66 just before all of this craziness started.

      Actually, in January, when scox was still planning the lawsuit. SCOX insiders gave themselves a boatload of shares for - get this - $0.001 each. So insiders could sell shares for one cent each and still make 1000% profit. SCOX stock is now $13/share. Insiders are selling like mad.

      http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/Holdings.asp?symbol=SC OX &selected=SCOX
  • Dear SCO, (Score:5, Informative)

    by yeremein (678037) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:49AM (#6499198)
    First, the premise of your case--you claim that your UNIX on x86 market share was unfairly eroded because enterprise features which you claim as your IP (including NUMA and RCU) were misappropriated into the Linux kernel. This argument doesn't hold much water, for two reasons:

    (1) These features were never present in your own UNIX offering. They were not even developed by SCO/Caldera; they were developed by Dynix, which is now a subsidiary of IBM. Because these features were developed for SVR5, you claim they are derivative works of SVR5 and therefore your own intellectual property. The legitimacy of this claim depends upon your contracts with IBM; it is not as black and white as you make it out to be. When asked whether the code supposedly copied from SVR5 originated in BSD, you respond that this is high end "enterprise" code which isn't present in BSD--but it's not present in SVR5 either. Your claims on this matter are misleading.

    (2) To state that Linux stole your market is preposterous, since you yourself were a Linux value-added reseller. In fact, you actively contributed to the development of enterprise features for the Linux kernel. You even cooperated with IBM in the Trillian Project (SMP on Linux). Your previous CEO, Ransom Love, spoke of unifying UNIX and Linux into a single platform. Now you turn and say that an enterprise-ready Linux took you completely by surprise, even though you helped bring it where it is.

    You portray yourself as a protector of intellectual property rights, but then you seek to wrest control of Linux from its creators on the basis of unproven allegations of copyright infringement. Your arrogance and hypocrisy know no bounds. Linux development has been very transparent, as Linus Torvalds has said. If you were really interested in protecting the intellectual property of all parties involved, you would work with the kernel developers to find out which parties contributed your intellectual property to the kernel and seek relief from them and/or allow the infringing code to be removed. Even if this would disable Linux SMP for a time, there are millions of Linux users running uniprocessor systems who were never infringing on your IP in the first place, and should not have to pay you a license fee. Furthermore, your move to collect license payments from Linux users without identifying specifically what they are licensing or even proving that you have a claim on Linux at all is fraudulent.

    Your proposed Linux licensing program amounts to the wholesale theft of years of effort from thousands of Linux contributors. You have profited from their efforts for nearly a decade, and now you stab them in the back and bite the hand that fed you. Since you could not compete in the marketplace, you resort to barratry, racketeering, and extortion.

  • by jobsagoodun (669748) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:54AM (#6499268)
    I include it verbatim, to save you using the link [yahoo.com]
    SCO has made a big noise about registering SVR4
    copyrights and announced their linux liscensing
    plan, which they call a UNIX liscensing plan. Looks
    like they're going for $1500 per LINUX seat for Unixware
    liscense to emdemnify from lawsuit.
    HOWEVER everything is not as the media is reporting...

    The copyright they registered is a 20 page revision
    to SVR4 (i.e SVR4.1ES) registration number TX-5-705-356.
    You can verify this at:

    http://www.copyright.gov/records/cohm.html

    The original UNIX copyright was never registered to Novell,
    and is currently registered to (SURPRISE!) AT&T.

    I'm not sure about the legal ramnifications, I believe
    that SCO has the right to copyright derivitive works
    in their aggreement with Novell. However, a search at:

    http://www.copyright.gov/records/

    under the tab "Copyright ownership documents,
    such as name changes and transfers" shows no
    record of any copyright transfers to SCO Group.

    In short, despite what is being widely reported,
    SCO still has not acquired (and may not be able
    to acquire) the copyright that they are
    threatening to use to sue LINUX users.
    (Copyrights MUST be registered before lawsuits
    may be filed).
  • Darl McBride's word (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bigjnsa500 (575392) <bigjnsa500 AT yahoo DOT com> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @10:00AM (#6499324) Homepage Journal
    I think we should hold this guy to his word. For those of you who didn't get this month Linux Journal, here's a quote:

    "Obviously Linux owes its heritage to UNIX, but not its code. We would not, nor will not, make such a claim."

    Darl McBride, CEO, The SCO Group, August 2002 Linux Journal Article #6293 [linuxjournal.com]

  • by The Slashdolt (518657) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @10:21AM (#6499557) Homepage
    I work at a software vendor who produces software for numerous large commercial instituations such as banks, telco's, etc. We have recently had a number of these companies request that we sign an agreement stating that software we have provided them DOES NOT contain any "Free Software". This has been a headache as of late, especially for my team. We work in Java and have used numerous LGPL libraries from various locations in our product to save time during development. We now have to get rid of all of these and rewrite it ourselves. Not fun.

    • by stud9920 (236753) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:29AM (#6500471)
      stating that software we have provided them DOES NOT contain any "Free Software".
      Buhahahahahahaha ! I guess once you have purchased a special non existing MSWindows version without MIT Kerberos and BSD TCP/IP (and possibly other I ignore), you will have to rewrite those for your customers. Where do I sign up for a IT job in your company ? It seems they will need all the available help.

      I do not know of ANY OS that doesn't contain at least a bit of free software.
  • by ctid (449118) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:09AM (#6500190) Homepage
    There's a lot of useful legal information in this linuxtoday article [linuxtoday.com]

    Amongst many gems there is this,

    Still, Moglen believes that, "If SCO really wishes to enforce these claimed copyright rights. I would suggest that they sue a Linux distributor. If the FSF distributed Linux, I would welcome such a lawsuit." And, speaking for himself and not the FSF, "I have renewed my offer to assist free software developers who may feel the need for legal assistance" because of SCO's recent actions.


    I would strongly recommend reading the whole of the article I have linked. Moglen's stuff starts with the heading "Legally Speaking". It is very informative and quite reassuring.
  • by mj01nir (153067) * on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:27AM (#6500428)
    From SCO's reply to Novell's copyright allegations:
    "Copyrights and patents are protection against strangers. Contracts are what you use against parties you have relationships with. From a legal standpoint, contracts end up being far stronger than anything you could do with copyrights.... SCO intends to protect and enforce all of the contracts that the company has with more than 6,000 licensees."

    So now SCO wants me to have a contract with them, by purchasing a UnixWare license? Why, so they can use it as a more effective weapon against me later? No thanks, Darl.
  • by HotNeedleOfInquiry (598897) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:43AM (#6500665)
    I'm not a lawyer, but I've been around a lot of contracts and contract disputes. It's my understanding that if you sue someone, it's your responsibility to make a good faith effort to mitigate the damages.

    In SCO's case, the damages could be easily mitigated by releasing enough detailed information so that the offending modules can be rewritten. Now we have a good idea why SCO has chosen not to do this, it is not to their short term advantage. They are relying on FUD to boost their stock prices and provide a cash stream to pay Bois and friends.

    So the real question is, how will the court interpret the fact that they have refused to mitigate damages? Any lawyers out there that can answer this question?

    • by iapetus (24050) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:34AM (#6498994) Homepage
      We're putting linux on our networks for free, and SCO wants a part of it.

      Sounds reasonable enough to me. How does 25% sound? :)

    • Re:Why care? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Zeinfeld (263942) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:58AM (#6499308) Homepage
      If Linus doesnt fear the SCO trolls, why should I? We're putting linux on our networks for free, and SCO wants a part of it.

      Well Linus is only providing a part of the Linux O/S and one that is least likely to actually infringe. So Linus is perhaps not the best test.

      A better test would be IBM who seems to be completely unphased by the situation and has racks of the best IP lawyers that money can buy.

      SCO faces a big problem trying to make its case. This is not a normal copyright infringement case where the ownership of the copyright is beyond doubt. Proving SCO's case will take many years - if that is actually possible at all. In the process SCO will be forced to specify exactly the portions of the code that are alleged to infringe. It is beyond doubt that by the time any case came to court for a judgement that any infringing components would have been removed.

      That is before any consideration of the GPL. SCO continued to distribute Linux under the GPL long after they acquired the rights to UnixWare. Even if their Linux claim were true they have licensed the relevant code under the GPL.

      This is nothing but the death throes of a dying company that has gambled on one last chance to show a return. They could well keep the stock price high for some time while the management sell out their shares.

    • Re:Why care? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by crazyphilman (609923) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @12:18PM (#6501204) Journal
      As I posted in another thread, after reading a fairly good article on the subject in eWeek this morning, I think the SCO suit is going to be completely irrelevant to most people for the following reasons (IANAL, this is my opinion based on articles I've read and etc):

      1. The suit isn't due to come into court until 2005. Until the court makes some kind of judgement, SCO has absolutely zero legal power to demand anything from anyone. They can send all the letters they want; but until a court makes a decision, they're just letters.

      2. By 2005, the BSDs and Linux will have become so similar in functionality, hardware support, and applications, that migrating from one to the other will be fairly painless. Since the BSDs are unencumbered, and SCO is specifically targeting the Linux 2.4 kernel, this means we have a great big safety net.

      3. By 2005, who's going to be using the 2.4 kernel? Unabomber-like holdouts, crouching in a shed with a dilapidated old Pentium-II and a stockpile of candy bars and beer? Any code which even remotely looks like SCO code is going to be stripped out long before then. So, the code in use by the time the court convenes is going to be unencumbered anyway. What could SCO possibly charge people money for, even if they win?

      4. 2005 gives the market a full two years to crush SCO. The court case will probably drag on for another two or three years, giving the market even more time. How is a company like SCO going to stay aloat that long? How is it going to avoid a hostile takeover for that long? Two to five years is an eternity when it comes to software.

      5. By 2008 (when the case would probably get wrapped up and appealed, etc), do you think we're still going to be using X86 machines, anyway? It's 2003; how many of you are still using the 486's you had in '98? Who's still using a 16 bit O/S? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

      Add it all together, and you'll see that buying SCO right now is a sucker move. If you just continue with business as usual, keeping the option of switching to BSD down the road, or updating to a new, unencumbered kernel, or migrating from X86 to whatever new platform is the vogue in 2005, you can (I think) pretty much ignore SCO. If, and this is remote, they win, it won't matter anyway. You can still dodge their sad attempts at extortion as I've pointed out.

      This whole thing is a total non-issue.

    • Not quite as funny as the first few times this comment was posted.
    • -1 : Redundant [slashdot.org]
      • Re:GMV (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Directrix1 (157787) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @11:58AM (#6500890)
        I would really hate any company to read this, and think that SCO has any legal ground vs. the linux community whatsoever, so I will repost my message, from yesterday, here to clarify SCO's idiocy:
        Here, is where I think SCOs major flaw in their argument is, the GPL circa Jan 28, 1999 explicitly states in its preamble:
        To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights. These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it.

        For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.

        Refer to way back machine: http://web.archive.org/web/19990128195748/www.gnu. org/copyleft/gpl.html [archive.org]

        And seeing as how SCO has been distributing Linux which had their code in the kernel. They have thusly, knowingly or not, distributed their rights, to the GPLd code in question, to the public. Because, of the statement above. Or if you want to hear it straight from GNU's statement:
        ... [gnu.org]
        Moreover, there are straightforward legal reasons why SCO's assertions concerning claims against the kernel or other free software are likely to fail. As to its trade secret claims, which are the only claims actually made in the lawsuit against IBM, there remains the simple fact that SCO has for years distributed copies of the kernel, Linux, as part of GNU/Linux free software systems. Those systems were distributed by SCO in full compliance with GPL, and therefore included complete source code. So SCO itself has continuously published, as part of its regular business, the material which it claims includes its trade secrets. There is simply no legal basis on which SCO can claim trade secret liability in others for material it widely and commercially published itself under a license that specifically permitted unrestricted copying and distribution.
        ...
    • Exactly. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ins0m (584887) <{ins0mni0n} {at} {hackermail.com}> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:43AM (#6499117)
      Why spend money on a primary injunction? While some predicted that this may have been a ruse to get bought out, others held to the premise that SCO is on a sinking ship and just wants money. Since the controversy started, their stock price has gone from $1.09 to upwards of $12 per share. Coincidence? Nope; controversy sells.

      By spreading FUD and insisting everyone cease and desist without actually seeking an injunction, it seems that the dynamic duo of Sontag and McBride are hoping to make some money without doing any dirty work. However, as was noted before, we have seen the GPL stand up to the legal tests (remember Progress and MySQL fighting over Gemini?). I hope someone eventually nails these guys with a libel suit. They haven't proven anything and they talk about this magical "discovery" phase like the dirty laundry is about to be aired... but it hasn't. As of the time of this post, SCO still has GPL'd Linux up on their FTP: ftp://ftp.caldera.com/pub/scolinux/server/4.0/upda tes/SRPMS/ [caldera.com]. If that's not donation, I don't know what is.

    • What do you mean? (Score:5, Informative)

      by gotr00t (563828) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:54AM (#6499271) Journal
      You're probably trolling, but I would have to say that you're an absolute idiot if you believe SCO's position. I, for one, appreciate copyright, and believe that it is what keeps innovation in the world going (alongside with patents), but when they are abused, then we get angry.

      Face the facts. All SCO has done is blabber on and on about how they think that Linux contains UNIX code and not backing up their claims about it with any substantial information. Their claims about SMP and business related aspects are total BS, as even before IBM involvement, Linux was a very mature OS. Right now, their third rate OS Unixware is capable of 8 processor SMP, while Linux is capable of up to 64. Why would any intelligent person take parts for a Mustang from an Escort?

      Their claims will not hold up in a court of law. If you think that any company can just make random claims and extort money off of the hard work of others, then you obviously are not familliar with the legal process. The very notion that SCO is selling licenses to UnixWare for Linux, BEFORE a trial even started, just proves that they are dishonest in making a licensing scheme for a product that they did not prove was theirs.

      The only solid evidence that SCO may have is the fact that there are portions of similar code in Linux and in SVR4 UNIX, the latter of which they own. Recently, the code, all 80 lines of it, was shown to some people who signed a non-disclosure agreement. Apparently, not all the people who viewed it had to sign, a mistake on their part, and it seems that even these 80 lines are kind of a stretch. There were no line numbers, no filenames, no function names on the demosnstration packet. Sometimes, there were portions that made no sense at all, like identical comments next to completely different portions of code. SCO claims that there are tens of thousands more, and Sontag even made that claim that there were files that were directly taken from UNIX. If any of that crap is true, then why did they show only 80 lines of it, where most of it was kind of a stretch?

      Linux was developed through the most transparent means possible, and it is possible to see where almost every feature of the kernel came from. The developers were even very careful about the small portions that IBM did contribute, and added it in after much verification.

      In conclusion, if you're not trolling, then you're either misinformed, hate Linux, or are just ignorant. I don't care whether or not you hate Linux or free software, but telling lies about it makes you no better than SCO.

      • by Enry (630) <enry@w a y g a . net> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:46AM (#6499157) Journal
        Because every time the community thinks they know what SCO is talking about, they change their tune. First it was changes only in IBM's distribution, then it was in Red Hat, then it was in the stock 2.4 kernel, now it's in every kernel since 2.4.

        It's NUMA, it's RCU, it's JFS, it's low-level subroutines, but they won't tell you exactly what it is. How can you change something when you don't know what needs changing?
      • by k12linux (627320) on Tuesday July 22 2003, @10:04AM (#6499366)
        I keep hearing that if SCO prevails, the offending code can be replaced quickly. Why not replace it NOW?

        Because SCO will only show someone the "offending code" if they sign an NDA. The NDA would then prevent them from removing the code if it exists.

        This shouldn't be a surprise. SCO doesn't want any alleged code to be removed. As soon as it is removed they no longer have anything to threaten customers with and force a license purchase. After all, a threat of "upgrade your kernel or pay us $1000" won't make nearly as much money as a threat of "pay us $1000 or risk a lawsuit."

        The worst thing that could happen to SCO right now would be if the case was mainlined and taken to court quickly. I think this would also be the best thing for Linux too.

        Note to SCO lawyers... this posting is mearly my opinion and IANAL.

    • Re:Haha (Score:5, Informative)

      by Trigun (685027) <evil@NoSpam.evilempire.ath.cx> on Tuesday July 22 2003, @09:47AM (#6499172)
      SMP came from Alan Cox's work with Caldera-sponsored equipment. A portion of NUMA came from IBM, as did the RCU which allowed greater scalability of the SMP kernel, mostly from removing overhead and latency with talking to many procs. The RCU which was sponsored through IBM, actually came from an acquisition of IBM, who essentially wrote it from scratch. It is the licensing terms and 'derivative work' stipulations which cast doubt on much of the validity of the added code.

      Unfortunately, we will have to wait until April 2005 before we know exactly how far the term 'derivative work' encompasses. Is merely seeing Unix code enough to make any additional coding a derivative work? I say no, SCO is saying yes.

      And oh yeah, go back under the bridge, troll. That wasn't even creative. j00 ()w|\|z3r3d nobody.