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Knoppix for Rapid Desktop Deployment
Posted by
michael
on Sat Nov 02, 2002 12:27 PM
from the ooooh-ahhhhhh dept.
from the ooooh-ahhhhhh dept.
heretic108 writes "From first boot to full desktop in 20 minutes! Knoppix has shot into the spotlight as a GNU/Linux distro suitable for demonstrating quality Open Source Software, standing out for its ability to self-configure itself into a vast range of hardware, and to run entirely off a CD boot without interfering with any existing system setup. That, plus its fat catalogue of pre-installed desktop software. But OSS enthusiast David McNab has poked a bit deeper, and found that Knoppix can install itself to disk, resulting in a completely configured GNU/Linux desktop system, ready to use, in 20 minutes, hassle free. CD no longer needed! Best of both worlds - use as a GNU/Linux demo disk, and if the user likes it, it's a snap to install permanently. I can't think of any distro that comes close to this, for ease and speed of setup. I found McNab's short Knoppix Installation Howto which gives a very brief and easy guide. With this rapid setup ability, Debian-based Knoppix makes a great contribution to the catalogue."
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It will never catch on (Score:5, Funny)
Stop! I might damage myself! (Score:3, Funny)
Perhaps a Windows install might have succeeded. Is that damaging enough for you? (-:
wonderful, but (Score:5, Interesting)
oops (Score:2)
Re:wonderful, but (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: wonderful, but (Score:4, Informative)
> Other distros do. Mandrake, Red Hat, SeSU all have superb hardware detection. Knoppix is different only in that it detects hardware on startup, which is the only way to make a CD-only, no-install distro.
FWIW, since around 7.0, Red Hat has re-detected hardware on startup, and will notice if anything has been added, removed, or changed.
I don't mess with SuSE much, but I vaguely remember that they have been doing it even longer. (Don't quote me on that part, though.)
Parent
Re: wonderful, but (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:wonderful, but (Score:3, Interesting)
If it screws up, then an advanced user could probably store some files that modify it (I guess this requires that it correctly detect the disk and file system these files are on...) Ideally the files should be of the form "If you are detecting xyz, well stop because you are wrong, the hardware really is this..." and not of the form "Don't try to detect xyz because really the hardware is this..." That way if the user pulls the misdetected hardware they can reboot because it will still check for the replacement hardware.
Re:wonderful, but (Score:3, Interesting)
Including non-free? (Score:3, Interesting)
This might be a bit off-topic, but hey, at least I'm not wasting your time with an Ask Slashdot:
Can someone point me towards a live-CD that includes Flash, RealPlayer, and the ability to play as many multimedia files as possible? OpenOffice and some kind of Gecko browser are also required.
The reason is that Windows is just not cutting it on my girlfriend's computer. She's having all sorts of weird technical problems so I've decided something needs to be done. Unfortunately, my Debian is so wacked out and constantly tweaked into a semi-usable state that she doesn't trust Linux. So what I need is something she can use for a few weeks -- still accessing her docs on her Windows partition -- until she's sold.
Uhh... (Score:2)
Did I just get trolled?
Re:Uhh... (Score:2)
It's missing Flash, RealPlayer, and Gecko. Why didn't you just recommend I install VMS? Or perhaps you didn't bother to read my post...
Re:Including non-free? (Score:2)
Knoppix is a livecd that autodetects and sets up most devices automatically upon boot, it includes open office, mozilla (konquorer [sp?] as well), OODLES of games, graphics programs, utilities, fun programs, and just plain "cool" things. It doesnt contain Flash nor Realplayer (at least I never got them to work), but it does play most of my multimedia content I had on my hard drive (divx, mpegs, avi, etc).
It autoconnects to internet if you have the ability to use DHCP so thats a big plus. You can access the hard drive from the desktop, open papers/etc from there...
Best thing -- it doesnt change ANY files on the harddrive! No worries about a "livecd" turning into a "pseudo installation" to run. There IS a way to put a swap file on your hard drive but its buried in menus and I wouldnt even bother with it... Knoppix runs fast, reliable, and just looks nice.
(And the desktop? You can change it of course.. but I am sure you knew that =)
Re:Including non-free? (Score:5, Funny)
Dude, there's no need to sell your girlfriend just because she uses Word.
graspee
Parent
irresponsible (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, Windows sucks. If it's having that many problems, see if you can roust up a copy of Win2000 or WinXP. But if you force your girlfriend to use Linux, she will probably end up frustrated and hating it (and maybe even hating you).
Then, in a few years, when Linux is ready for the desktop (if that happens) then she won't want to try it.
If you really think Windows sucks too much for her to use, maybe you should look into getting her a Mac. Forcing nontechnical people to use Linux is not the way to win friends, or spread good feelings for the operating system.
Parent
Re:irresponsible (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you have a good metric for testing whether Linux is ready for the desktop? I'm not sure that it is, but it's got to be better than the shit she's struggling with now.
We're starving university students, therefore Macs are entirely out of the question (she's wanted a Mac ever since reading Microserfs). I doubt her aging hardware's ability to run Win2k (or else I would have already tried it) and so it's even less likely to handle XP. But really, should a new computer be required just to word process, web browse (including multimedia content), and listen to music? (Seriously, that's all she does. But for some reason WindowsME can't even do that.)
Re:irresponsible (Score:4, Insightful)
Wha? No, wrong. My mother ain't technical and can use Linux just fine.
What you should say is do not force a non-technical person to ADMIN a Linux box. But then again, you shouldn't let a non-technical person admin any box unless you want to have to fix it every other week. I have to keep cleaning all of the games off of my Aunt's computer because she doesn't understand the concepts of "limited hard drive space" and "uninstalling stuff" no matter how short I make the words I use.
Parent
Re:irresponsible (Score:3, Informative)
Nice troll!
Linux not ready for the desktop? Have you read the article? Have you tried the cd? It's amazing what a good distro can do.
Setting up printing as is as easy as clicking through a wizard, same with changing video settings, scanners, etc, etc, etc. How the arse do you justify spreading this kind of FUD? Do you get confused because the widgets look a little differently from your win98 desktop?
In the last several months, I've given away about 20 knoppix cds directly (indirectly, by running Linux training courses for which students use Knoppix, I've given away many more). It's all down to experience. Once users get used to a slightly improved (and hence, different) way of doing things, they're all over Linux.
SuSE do (Score:3, Informative)
Some other stuff it does well - it'll store swap, config and home directory on files in the first windows harddisk with enough space it can find. That means you can in fact use it as your primary OS if you're happy with not being able to add new software and slow bootup times. You can reconfigure, write docs and so on, and it'll all be saved to disk.
Re:Including non-free? (Score:5, Funny)
If someone shot you last week, but only stabbed you this week, you don't have to thank them.
-Paul Komarek
Parent
Re:Including non-free? (Score:3, Insightful)
The commenter's original problem was that Windows kept crashing. He was looking for an alternative that his girlfriend would be happy with. No one could come up with a suitable Linux distro given his requirements, and one person suggested he buy her a Mac or just reinstall Windows and not let her install the addin crap. He said he had the problems even with fresh installs of Win98, Win98SE and WinME.
I have 7 years of professional experience with Win95, almost 3 years of professional experience with Windows 2000 and Windows NT and various experience with the other Windows versions. Windows 2000 is much more stable than what he used and fills his girlfriend's needs.
I am pro GNU/Linux, but it's not for everyone, and it's not a multimedia desktop OS for someone who doesn't want to tinker, and if you want Real Player, Flash and "the ability to play as many multimedia files as possible" (from the original question) then any distro of GNU/Linux or *BSD requires much tinkering.
Personally I think she'd be better off with a Mac. I have a serious woody for Mac OS X, but I don't run it because Apple hardware is just too darn expensive. If someone has the money to burn I'd recommend a Mac with OS X now.
By the way, Microsoft says the latest version is better because that's how they make their money. God forbid everyone finds out that Word 95 makes docuements just as well and easy as Word 2002.
In one year, you'll still say "There's your problem right there, Windows 2003 is much more stable than Windows 2000".
Not me. Windows 2000 is the best Windows I've seen so far. Screw XP. It's Win2k with DRM and eye candy.
If someone shot you last week, but only stabbed you this week, you don't have to thank them.
Cute, but show me a desktop OS that you can convince my users to use and my Fortue 500 company IT staff will support and convince the world that MS Word
I did overlook one possibility for his girlfriend's problems: It might be the hardware. It could be a flaky power supply or bad RAM, and then no OS will help his problems. In fact a true 32-bit OS would exacerbate a hardware issue.
How much? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How much? (Score:5, Funny)
Please submit ads using the "submit story" link on the side of the page. Things to include:
* A simple way for people to bash microsoft.
* Something that can be turned into a beowulf cluster.
Parent
Re:How much? (Score:3, Funny)
Taco you TURNCOAT.
So THAT'S what that server migration a few days ago was all about...
Knoppix is just that good... (Score:5, Interesting)
My fiancee was volunteered to teach a class in algorithm design and c++ programming at the highschool she teaches at (for honors credit) -- the problems, though, were numerous.
She had to deal with:
1) NO funds available for purchasing of any programming utilities
2) Computer ADMIN not allowing her to install ANY programming software (borland freeware, DJGPP, etc) to disk
3) NOT allowing students to write (even temporary files) to the hard drive...
We looked at a LOT of different ways to handle these problems. Finally we decided that maybe using a linux livecd and having a disk with gcc/g++ for each student. Looked at a few different types that were mentioned on slashdot but NONE seemed to work well... until we saw a VERY old article that some user mentioned Knoppix.. went to it, d/l'ed it, burned to disk, popped it in and rebooted...
*WOW*
Knoppix comes fully loaded with office utilities, games (PLENTY of games), graphics software, but most importantly DEVELOPMENT software already on it. We were in love with it (in truth, my other box is still running it from cd just bc we liked it =) -- even more important was that it ran without the need for ANY files or ANY changes to the hard drive.
It discovered all devices hooked to my computer and actually had them working (AS WELL as the internet connection from "straight to cable modem" or "over network using ICS" setups we have at my house).
She took it to her school, popped it in, rebooted the computers (after fidgeting with bios to allow boot from cd, laugh) and QUICKLY came up with the Knoppix desktop. It certainly didnt take more than a min or so to bootup...
Most surprising thing was that for a "ran from cd" linux it was REMARKEBLY fast. Lets just say I was VERY impressed with Knoppix and recommend it for ANY new person. Without the threat of "ruining their computer," they can just pop in knoppix to try out linux... if they hate it, pop it out and its finished.
So in the end, fiancee's school didnt have to shell out money, didnt "screw up the computers" (sigh), have a setup for students to write and compile programs, and exposed students (and teachers) to Linux. I would say the entire situation was a big WIN =)
Re:No writable hard drive? (Score:5, Informative)
Read the knoppix documentation... it does not, by default, install ANYTHING to ANY hard drive.. you have the option to put a swap file ont he hard drive but you have to select it =)
Look down the page http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html and you will see about what it does and does not do. NO installation or modifying of the hard drives are necessary -- with computers without necessary ram it will run SLOWER but it will still run.
Besides, its a worthless argument =) Their computers most definately have 128 mb ram...
Parent
Re:No writable hard drive? (Score:3, Informative)
Students each have a disk that they have their source code on (they write the code to the disk). We compile onto the disk and the executable remains on the disk. Students turn in their disks (along with algorithms (ie their funny little flowcharts)) to be graded.
It was a good question... we STILL have to have a disk even though now we dont have to put the development apps on there... I say it was a very good trade. =)
wow (Score:2)
Re:wow (Score:2)
(I would download it, but my employers' net connection this weekend is downloading the Age of Mythology demo...)
Re:wow (Score:3)
But someone smart would go to www.google.com
type knoppix, and click i feel lucky.
then click the english link on the page.
there is a list of stores selling it.
You could have also succeeded by trying cheapbytes.com first, as they sell burned copies of most linux distros, and happen to be on the page.
Knoppix==Awesome (Score:3, Interesting)
What? Your Windows 2000 server's dynamic disk has crashed, again? No problem. Insert Knoppix. Copy
Re:a RAM disk for swap space (Score:3, Informative)
one of the pleasant things about knoppix (Score:4, Informative)
Also, if you want to show someone the sheer variety of free and Free browsers available with Linux, Scribus has konqueror, mozilla, dillo, not to mention text-based ones as well.
It's an amazing distro -- demoware that really works. Anecdote: I have used Knoppix, from the CD, as my only OS for several days when using a borrowed laptop on which I could not politely do an OS swap. Except a slight slowness with the CD up-and-down-spinning, it was hard to tell I wasn't just using a recent Debian system installed normally.
timothy
knopix worked great on my laptop...... (Score:2, Interesting)
VMWare (Score:3, Interesting)
Use Linux for any "private" work you want to do, use encryption tools (ssh, tunneling, etc.) to get out your corporate firewall to a trusted machine, and then simply run your other operating system inside VMWare for doing your work.
Does Knoppix make it easy to add new things into the cd image?
Re:VMWare (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, As long as you keep inside the size limit. I removed some of the Demos on the ISO and included a brainwave relaxing program AutoZen to run on my my Girlfriend's Windows machine. Worked fine.
WmWare workstation is only 11Meg so you should be OK.
OT: VMware alternative (Score:3, Informative)
Plex86 [nongnu.org] touts itself as *the* free (as in speech and beer) alternative. I have not tried this either.
Connectix makes Virtual PC [connectix.com], which is not free. I have not tried it.
I've got to respect this.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I don't care about having 10 different editors, but I'm sure some people do. I can almost live entirely off of the redhat 8.0 personal desktop (I have other machines to compile on), save for the lack of mp3-ability out of the box (freshrpms, I love you) and dvd-ability (again, go freshrpms). But the ability to do something like this, be able to just install it on to a hard drive, type a single command for updates, no registering or anything, and continue on, is very nice.
I think this years install fest will see a lot more debian installs than it will redhat or mandrake because of this.
There's another one (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.lnx-bbc.org/ [lnx-bbc.org]
I can beat that. (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, yeah, before you mod this down, just think a sec, I'm only trying to show how ludicrous this "time to first boot" is, as a measure of an OS.
This is just what I have been looking for. (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the major reasons I was very reluctant to try Linux out (I'm a dedicated Win2K admin) was that it would require me to re-partition a disk for an ext3 filesystem.
Well, seeing as how each and every one of my drives are NTFS Dynamic Volumes, there's no chance in hell that Linux is going to be able to read (or even repartition) them, and neither will most other software. So, it's a total wipeout if I wanted to try it.
I'm downloading the ISO of this right now; I can get a chance to use Linux without *installing* Linux this way. In essence, what I've wanted for a long time.
It was on NZ PC World (Score:5, Interesting)
We had to cut it down to 350MB to fit the sponsor's Windows games and so forth on the CD too (thanks Eaden at Opentech) so no OpenOffice, but the reader response we got was incredible. See this [pcworld.co.nz] and search for "Knoppix" for the feedback.
Vik
Knoppix as a Christmas gift (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm planning to bundle the CD with two sheets of paper, one showing how to start and use it and explaing that it won't interfere with the ordinary function of the computer concerned and the other David McNabb's HDD install HOWTO.
Then in January I'm going to apply for a position in the marketing department of AOL, I'll have all the required skills
live test (Score:4, Interesting)
I bought the box which caused the least trouble!
Knoppix was more than helpful
Re:Big Deal (Score:2, Interesting)
-Rusty
Re:Big Deal (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Deja-BSD - and more (Score:5, Interesting)
To be honest, it also impresses the pants off Windows users and is very likely to convert them to Open Source software. There they are used to Windows products and have been told Linux is too hard. Then along comes this CD, they insert it, boot, and a fully-fledged Linux app with OpenOffice, Mozilla, network, sound and lots of toys rises before them without them having to type or do *anything*.
That's why I put it on the NZ PC World cover disk.
Vik
Parent
Re:initial concerns (Score:3, Informative)
Unfortunately, that's correct.
It will allow you to save some of your settings to floppy. For example, I can save my network settings. However, I have to run the network setup tool (under the Knoppix menu) to get them to work.
I think so, although you can ckeck Knoppix forum [linuxtag.org] for a definitive answer. The people have been quite helpful there.
Re:Every PC an Idrema! (Score:3, Interesting)
The idea is not without merit, and it would solve some problems but introduce others.
To run a game this way would mean that the end user can't do anything while they're playing the game. No e-mail checking, no downloading with Kazaa, no way to quickly get back to your desktop (short of rebooting), etc. The notion of multitasking is gone. In may ways this would be like the good/bad old days of rebooting just to play DOOM.
It also means saying goodbye to DirectX. Since we already have UT2K3 and all things Quake running on Linux already it's far from impossible, but many developers don't want to kiss DirectX goodbye. While Epic and id are two companies that favor cross-platform compatibility over ease of tools, many other developers think otherwise (witness Neverwinter Nights).
Back in the pre-DirectX days the developer would have to code for every concievable piece of hardware. DirectX shifted most of this burden to the hardware makers, but to do this LiveCD route would make the developer have to do it again. Not sure how big a problem this would be nowadays (since it might not be such a big deal to just throw every driver in history onto the disc) but it might be another Big Hassle for the developers.
Finally, this means that game developers would have to either become geniuses on making bootable Linux distros in addition to games, or else get cozy with Linux distro makers. Heck, this might even cause political distro wars as to whom gets used. Plus this probably won't do anything to further Linux on the desktop (if that's your bag).
But I can see this as an interesting option to do in addition to the install and run in Windows/Linux option. Kinda reminds me of when Windows wasn't popular yet and Adobe Photoshop 1.0 (I think) came out with a Windows Runtime.
Re:Swap Space on an existing partition? (Score:3, Informative)
dd if=/dev/zero of=swapfile.dat bs=1k count=x
mkswap swapfile.dat
swapon swapfile.dat