Xbox Runs X, KDE, Gnome, StarOffice and Tuxracer 510
freax writes "Today in the the xbox-linux mailinglist:
I'm typing this into KMail using a USB keybaord (and a USB mouse) in front of the TV connected to the Xbox. ... and even StarOffice works quite fine. TuxRacer also runs (look at the new screenhots on the website), but only with one frame per second.
Check out screenshots here."
Can you run Wine? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Can you run Wine? (Score:4, Funny)
And if you can, will it be faster than the original, because of the OS upgrade?
Re:Can you run Wine? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Can you run Wine? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hope this helps. Enjoy emulating on your box!
Re:Can you run Wine? (Score:2, Insightful)
Because it is funny? Geez, don't be so sensitive...
Maybe you should refrain from posting until you understand irony.
Re:Can you run Wine? (Score:2)
Yeah, it should have been +5 Insightful.
Hey just what else are you going to do on a box that has a low end pentium and outputs only to a TV?
It is a cool hack but at the end of the day you can get the same effect much more easily by adding a $60 TV out card to a PC. I just put together a PC upgrade with a new motherboard, processor, video card and memory for $350. So OK thats a tad more expensive than the $200 of an Xbox but the result is a heck of a lot more useful.
And don't get me started on the 'cheap supercomputer' idea, no you can put as many Xboxen together as you like, you are not going to break any price performance barriers because the price/performance of your basic block is simply not cutting edge, even with Microsoft making a loss on every unit. Also whatever you gained in hardware savings would be rapidly lost through the cost of powering a farm of the damn things. If you want cutting edge price/performance get boxes that don't waste money on a disk, have a larger processor, more RAM and come with multiple LAN ports.
So logically once you have the X-box running linux the next thing to do is run Wine and then the Xbox emulator. The Multics or Lisp machine emulators would also be pretty cool. Alternatively if someone could get a ZXSpectrum emulator up and running on it.
As it stands this hack is pretty much like the fact my Zaurus runs Linux, kewl but completely irrelevant to why I have the device.
Wahoo! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wahoo! (Score:3, Funny)
I hope your ass exploded from all those burritos.
Re:Wahoo! (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re:Wahoo! (Score:2, Funny)
Prize ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Prize ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Prize ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Prize ? (Score:2)
The legality of the first might depend on what the bug was, I guess... Still I'm sure the legality or lack thereof won't frighten people, there's a roaring trade in PSX modchips despite their grey status.
Re:Prize ? (Score:2)
Re:Prize ? (Score:2, Informative)
Please read the Act.
Chapter 12
Section 1201
(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.
Re:Prize ? (Score:2)
I hate to tell you this, but the EU is considering a DMCA type law [slashdot.org] of its own. The DMCA was brought about because of a WTO treaty that more or less required it. EU signed this treaty, too.
Finally (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Finally (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Finally (Score:3, Informative)
Pentium III ? More likely Celery^Hon according to this screenshot...
Actually the Xbox CPU is neither a P-III nor a Celeron, but something inbetween. It has only 128KB of L2 cache (like a Celeron, a real P-III has 256KB), but that cache is 8-way set associative (like a real P-III, a Celeron only has 4-way set associative cache).
Re:Finally (Score:2)
I don't remember the exact deal with the cache, but the configuration is not identical to any desktop or mobile PIII Intel sold.
Yeah, but it wouldn't *cost* MS $150 a pop (Score:2)
Re:Finally (Score:3, Funny)
I'm sure Linux users everywhere are ready to buy a PC from Microsoft so they can run Linux on it. Heh.
Re:Finally (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Finally (Score:2)
If you don't believe what I'm saying will happen, then here's an alternative point of view: You can't possibly buy enough XBOXes to make MS go broke. 10 million would have to be sold in order for MS to lose 1.5 billion.
There's no way 10 million people would buy XBOXes and go "Yeah! Im screwing ms!!" and not think about doing something practical with them, like playing games.
Face it, you're not going to succeed at doing anything but make MS invest more in DRM. Good choice.
Re:Finally (Score:2)
Sorry bud.
Re:Better $200 PC than Xbox (Score:2)
More importantly, how about Apache... (Score:3, Interesting)
Y'know, all those services that an ISP or similar might find handy in a *big* server farm.
Hey, how's about a Beowulf of those.
Re:More importantly, how about Apache... (Score:2)
Re:More importantly, how about Apache... (Score:2)
Actually I would get one if it can play DivX movies with it without modchip (Linux or no Linux)
Re:More importantly, how about Apache... (Score:2)
They make a profit on the boxes, now.
Doom 3 (Score:5, Funny)
All this without the Anal Leakage (TM) that is the Xbox gamepad.
keybaord (Score:4, Funny)
Looks like it's a buggy USB keybaord.
The Linux Che (Score:3, Funny)
"this is the beginning of microsoft's end."
Because everyone knows that Tux Racer is going to be the catalyst for change.
Oh, and GLTron.
Why this is a good thing (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the true beginning of a low cost, easy to use system. If the boot up totally doesn't destroy the system, for $200 you can get yourself a machine that:
This won't be perfection or anything as silly as that, but I'm curious to see where it goes. Great work to the team.
Re:Why this is a good thing (Score:2, Funny)
this plan works till your boss walks in and see you playing halo.
Yawn... (Score:2)
After 20+ years of this line... I'll believe it when I see it. Not one second sooner. And with Microsoft fighting this tooth and nail... frankly, the Dreamcast had a much better shot here (what with most or all of them able to run custom CD-ROMs with no modifications to the unit), and it didn't happen either.
Re:Why this is a good thing (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why this is a good thing (Score:2)
I mean, have it be an mp3 / movie playback system for your nice highend AV setup. You got dolby 5.1, you could use divx's with AC3 support, the works. And it has lan.
Re:Why this is a good thing (Score:2)
Advantages? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Advantages? (Score:2)
Re:Advantages? (Score:3, Insightful)
The advantage to doing this is to fsck with Microsoft. The rest is just gravy. I do love the .png from sourceforge though. That is too cool.
Is there any point to this? (Score:2)
I've never understood what all the fuss is about with Linux on the X-Box. Apart from being a fun hack, is there any point to this?
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:2, Insightful)
An X-Box is basically a custom built PC, so if you run Linux on it, you get a cheap, quite powerful, near intell-compatible computer, with a powerful graphics card.
That's why MS made the X-Box OS so limited, they don't want people to use it as a cheap PC -- it is being sold far under cost price, so they'll have to earn money on it by selling games.
If you run Linux on it, and play free games instead, you are costing Redmond quite a lot of cash
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:5, Insightful)
why does there have to be more of a point than just people playing around and showing others who might be interested?
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:2)
Because the content providers are already in a nasty tizzy over circumvention of protection devices? Hackers/Crackers already have a bad rep that's helping get shit like the DMCA passed. More of this kind of stuff without an obvious helpful reason is just going to make them spend more money on politicians.
You really want MS to back the CTPBPTPBA?
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:2)
It won't happen though, will it? Some dumbshit's going to port MAME over to the XBOX and show people how you can turn it into an arcade box. Trust me, the content peeps will find a way to twist it. "They're just using it to pirate ROMS!!!" and some dumb crap like that.
Before you argue with me: Just because the hypothetical argument isn't rational doesn't mean they wouldn't try it. This is the same industry that said that Apple was promoting piracy.
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, there's a point to it. These geeks are demonstrating the stupidity in crippling a computer with DRM, and they're deriding Microsofts attempts to make a so-called "secure platform". Microsoft has said that they want the future for PCs to include these crippling technologies. What they are doing is proving to MSFT customers and shareholders that the company is full of shit, and DRM can't be done (never mind whether or not it should be done).
I don't know if that's their motivation or not, but that's the effect. Their motivation might just come from solving a difficult problem and learning something in the process - you should try it!
RE: DRM Can't be done (Score:5, Interesting)
I think this is more of a lesson to MSFT about what precautions you need to make for a DRM box to really work!
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:2, Informative)
Different that other security measures, this one is intended on stopping the user, owner of the machine, to do with it as it pleases him.
Anyway, google [google.com], and the paper [mit.edu].
Re:Is there any point to this? (Score:2)
If you have to ask, then you'll never understand.
Saying that you're asking because you don't understand is a pretty blatently obvious statement.
Good good (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Good good (Score:2, Informative)
Screenshots! (Score:3, Interesting)
Hehe... I've been to enough computer shows to know that a box (be it Mac/PC/X-Box) sat next to a TV/monitor showing an interesting demo is just not something you can believe!
Re:Screenshots! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Screenshots! (Score:2)
So why is it that this, and just about all the other (ahem) DivX content has the same soundtrack? Must be an encoder thing...
Re:Screenshots! (Score:2)
Your camera is faulty (Score:5, Funny)
I can't believe you haven't noticed it.
tux racer (Score:4, Funny)
so it's the same as a normal pc with a geforce then
**boom boom**
Wow, if he gets the $200,000 (Score:2)
This expensive cluster would probably run a modified version of Tux Racer at a decent number of FPS.
Re:Wow, if he gets the $200,000 (Score:2)
bit thin on details (Score:2)
How far are we from a Linux distribution for the Xbox that can be booted from CD? I think that would be great for a web server farm (or a home web server).
Re:bit thin on details (Score:2)
A better way to make Microsoft take a loss on Xbox (Score:2, Informative)
And if you want to keep Microsoft out of the console market your better off buying a Playstation 2 and some games. Building up Sony's market share is more likely to keep Microsoft from making an Xbox2 then Linux Xbox. Of course , Sony's business practices aren't much better then Microsoft, but that is going way off topic.
xmame (Score:3, Insightful)
Now there's $200 worth of entertainment!
Re:xmame (Score:2)
(Sorry had to do it)
In the olden days.. (Score:3, Insightful)
C= Lives! (Score:2)
The monitor looks a lot like a Commodore 1902A. I think they're just faking us out with some Commodore-64 graphics!
At last! A way to fairly compare PS2 and XBOX (Score:2)
Re:At last! A way to fairly compare PS2 and XBOX (Score:2, Informative)
Microsoft loses $150 on each xbox it sells..... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Microsoft loses $150 on each xbox it sells..... (Score:2)
Sorry, MSFT's cash reserves were $5,116,000,000 as of 03/31/02. But, keeping cash reserves around is like keeping money in your mattress; they have invested most of it. If you count that too, their cash on hand is actually close to $40 Billion. So, you'll have to buy 260 million XBoxes, or, about 1 for every living human in the USA.
I want one (Score:3, Interesting)
When it comes down to it, why do most people use Windows? Not because it's simple or Linux is complex - most computer users couldn't install or manage Windows configurations, so the added complexity of Linux wouldn't make much of a difference if the defaults (a la Mandrake) were any good. Not because it's more familiar (Start Panel, anyone?), or because it runs their productivity apps (most people can be set up with OpenOffice and not notice a difference).
People use Windows because it's got the games. As commentators have said time and time again, the computer industry is driven by gamers. No one buys a Pentium 4 2GHz computer with a GeForce 4 Ti because they want to run Office, eh? Geeks resort to dual-booting, Linux for most tasks and Windows for games, while most users simply use what works best - Windows for everything.
Now, with Xbox, there's an opportunity. Games, by their very nature, defy multitasking. When you're playing a game, you're not doing anything else, period, and you expect real-time performance from your computer. No file/print serving in the background, no preemptive multitasking meaning that your game is only running half as fast as it could. The computer should be doing nothing else but running a game. When you put a game into a console, it loads up that game, isn't running anything else in the background, and thus can (theoretically) give you better performance than any desktop with a full-blown OS can.
So, suppose you had an Xbox with Linux installed. A user decides they want to type a document, or surf the web; they boot up Linux, and can open Moz or OO. Then, they decide they want to use a game. They shut down Linux, put the game CD/DVD in the Xbox, and load it up.
Essentially, users have the benefits of a dual-boot situation without the downsides. Games are fully integrated, having every piece of software you need to run them built-in to the disc; the fact that it uses DirectX behind the scenes is irrelevant. And when you're not gaming, you load up Linux, which requires almost no configuration because it's for a standard PC configuration; the Xbox, in fact, may soon be the most ubiquitous PC configuration (plurality) anywhere.
Users are happy because they get a $200 computer that they can use equally well with a TV, HDTV, or computer monitor; and due to its compact nature, could easily be transported from room to room if need be. Microsoft is happy because people are buying Xboxes, which means they buy games; so MS still ends up making a profit, because most people who buy the Xbox are going to get at least one game (which puts MS almost at break-even).
Re:I want one (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft is fast realizing that a non-subscription-based Windows cannot be expected to be a moneymaker for long; people are just too prone to pirate. The idea very well may occur to them to port Office to Linux, because they know full well that they'd gain more profits from additional sales of Office than they'd lose from sales of Windows. And once MS is offering products from Linux, why wouldn't they at least make it possible (if not any easier) to install Linux on the Xbox?
Knowing MS, they'd be much more likely to install a version of CE on the hard drive, which would allow people to run Microsoft-certified apps. But I can't think of a good reason why Microsoft wouldn't allow people to run Linux on the box, if it meant that MS would have more system sales, and thus more game sales (and more licensing fees from game developers).
As for the other minor problems you mention: [a] The doctrine of first sale says that Microsoft can stop no person from buying a $200 Xbox, putting in a $40 mod-chip, installing Linux, and selling it for $300 plus shipping. MS may not like it, but users would; they could get a full-featured computer that ran all Xbox games for only $300, which is as much as some people paid for the Xbox as it is. [b] The filesystem doesn't need any special features. The Xbox by its nature isn't going to be used as a server, so in effect it's single-user; and there are no other filesystem features you need to download software off SourceForge (arguably we need a more standardized package format, but that has nothing to do with filesystems).
The Important question is... (Score:5, Interesting)
Attention MS Lawyers: (Score:2)
He made it really easy for you to track down who is working on this project. You may have a tough time tracking down "Steve" though.
Questions of usefulness.. (Score:2)
Re:yay! (Score:2, Funny)
significant what? significance is maybe what you had intended to type? perhaps, you wanted to type "There are significant differences..". perhaps it was just a human mistake. regardless, what you intended to type, and what appeared on the slashdot posting were two entirely diferent things causing significant disruption in the overall karma of the slashdot world.
ah, well, back to browsing.
Re:yay! (Score:2)
Re:Almost like (Score:2)
YOUR point?
Re:Hold on a second.... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Hold on a second.... (Score:2)
Re:Go loss leader! (Score:2)
I'll bet you're one of those kinds of people that sees "Save $100 off product Foo!" and will rush out and buy Foo, even though you don't need one, just to "save" the hundred bucks.
Re:Go loss leader! (Score:2)
You see, Microsoft is selling the Xbox at about 150 dollars below the cost of manufacturing it. They make up that money by selling games at a profit price, but if you buy the Xbox and then don't buy their games, they have lost money. Thus, people buying Xboxes and then using them as Desktop systems with Linux ends up costing Microsoft in the long run.
QED
Re:Go loss leader! (Score:5, Insightful)
Manufacturing cost = $350 (not sure if that's true, but we'll run with it just for giggles)
MSRP = $200
When an XBOX is sold, MS makes MSRP - a very small commission for the store it's sold at. (Stores make nearly no money on Game consoles.)
So MS is out $150.
When the item is out, MS is out $350.
So, as near as I can tell, $350 > $150, therefore MS loses more money when an XBOX isn't sold.
Now, your argument is that people should buy XBOXs and not buy games for them. (In other words, people should pay for nothing) You're assuming that when you sell that XBOX, nothing will be there to replace it. WRONG. MS will not only make another XBOX in it's place to sell, but it'll be cheaper. Manufacturing cost is based on the total money spent to make these units divided by how many are sold. It takes a lot of money to get the factory started and so one. Once that's done, it just keeps churning out consoles. As time goes buy, the price goes down. (Not including that CPUS, RAM, etc get cheaper over time...) Eventually, MS will sell these at a profit. (assuming Sony/Nintendo don't undercut them to death.)
Now let's get back to the pscychology of buying a unit and not buying games with it: You're screwing yourself out of $200 that way. MS's systems sold # goes up, giving people more reason to buy one. They're going to buy it and play games for it. Meanwhile, you either have an expensive doorstop, or a shitty Linux machine. Woop-de-doo. 10 million XBOXes would have to be sold for MS to lose 1.5 bill. They have 40. Can you honestly tell me common sense wouldn't prevail with 10 million+ people involved?
If you don't like MS, don't buy their products. 'Sticking it to them' is not likely to do anything but good for them.
Frankly, I'm sick of all these "I hate MS" posts. If you get so zealous about attacking MS, not only will you never be taken seriously, but you'll also give them the ability to say "were just misunderstood." Pick your battles. Fight MS for making you buy Windows, don't fight MS for making a good game machine.
Re:Go loss leader! (Score:2)
This assumes that all the X-Box units have already been made and are stored in a warehouse somewhere.
The more likely scenario is that Microsoft built a few 1000 extra units and builds more as stock is sold. So let's assume 1000 units are sitting unsold in a warehouse. That is $350,000 in stock. Nobody buying another X-Box therefore costs Microsoft $350,000. But if 3000 people buy an X-Box and Microsoft achieves a best case scenario of having no stock left then Microsoft loses $450,000.
The 1000 units in stock number is a fictional guess, but the thought process illustrates that your logic is flawed.
Re:Go loss leader! (Score:2)
Stock price and market share are not the same thing. Market share is how many people have XBOXes and how many people have GameCubes. Stock price is a measure of investor confidence. Since MS is so big, XBOX could be a flop and hardly rock their boat, stock-wise.
"kinda dig that scenario. Not like Xbox is going to precipitate this, but.... "
The only harm you'd do is to the game companies trying to sell games. Not cool. Not cool at all.
Re:And you thought Slashdot's grammar was bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And you thought Slashdot's grammar was bad... (Score:2)
Re:toaster-linux (Score:2, Funny)
That is undoubtedly the most disturbing thing I've ever heard in my life.
Re:One Possible Use (Score:2)
That being said, an xBox hacked to be a home audio server would be a nice toy and a great way for a geek to get extra value out of it when they already want it for games.
Re:better call your lawyers (Score:3, Informative)
Who gives a flying fuck anyway? BTW, Microsoft seems to be passive about 'hack the box' issues so far(from the net hack for Halo to Linux)...maybe they want xbox to get some more attention in the news?
If Microsoft wanted to, they would have sent the Bill Gates Swat Team and stormed their ass down already.
Re:This is great! (Score:2)
All you Anti-MS zealots have your fun picking on MS, but don't destroy the game market in the process.
Re:This is great! (Score:2)
Buying a bunch of systems and not buying games? Can you honestly tell me that screwing game companies is the right away to approach an attack on MS?
Think about it. That's why there was so much hooplah over the release of the PS2. It was $200 in the hole on a per unit basis as well. Sony needed 4 games per unit sold, and at best they got 1. The PS2's launch titles sucked so ppl watched DVD's on it instead.
If that kind of shit continues, the game market will have the same breakdown it did in the Atari days. It doesn't take much for a game company to say "well just make another Quake killer, we can't risk doing something original."
Call me nutso if you like, but if you hurt small game companies in this little spat, then you're no better than MS.
Re:This is great! (Score:2)
Bad call. The success of the PC is largely in part due to the success of the game market.
"This is a cheap box, one that I can use for any number of things including linux development. I can throw it in the corner and have a mp3 server... "
If that's what you want to use it for, have fun. If you want to use it to 'screw MS', then you're not doing anybody any good.
"I don't buy things for games. There's no reason to. "
I'd correct that by saying "There's no reason for YOU to [buy things for games]." Which is a fair statement that I'd have no problem with.
Re:This is great! (Score:2)
How does it help the market? "We'll push MS out so that only Sony and Nintendo will compete"? Yeah, thanks. Brilliant.
Re:Soldering required? (Score:2)
Re:It's all evoultion. (Score:2)
Re:xbox.com hosted on XboX (Score:2)
I can't verify it's NOT on an X-Box, but, here's a bit of info [netcraft.com] that would help in the persuit of the truth.