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Walmart Ships PCs with Lindows OS
Posted by
michael
on Fri Jun 14, 2002 10:30 AM
from the penguins-in-the-heartland dept.
from the penguins-in-the-heartland dept.
Tonetheman writes "Walmart is now shipping low cost PC's with Lindows pre-installed. And yes I know there was a review earlier on Slashdot about installing Linux on one of these bad boys. This is different and much more exciting. To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..." There's a Newsforge story too. Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.
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L/Windows (Score:4, Funny)
"What OS are you using?"
"Lindows"
"Windows?"
"Yeah, Lindows"
If there is hope, it lies in the proles (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, this is not a surprise. Think of stock car racing. It grew out of average folks with limited budgets buying commodity hardware and making it scream with a little tinkering. Today, NASCAR racing is big buisness and very popular with the Wal-Mart crowd. They are gifted with the hacker mentality.
Wal-Mart is just making it possible for the next generation of gear heads to soup up the next generation of hardware.
Think of this. So what if the hardware isn't on the high end. So what if all their Windows games aren't supported. I'd like to see people out there (eg. high school/trade school shop teachers/LUGs) showing people how to combine the power of their systems or tweak the shit out of them. Heck at $300 some folks would be willing risk gluing a refrigerator to their CPU!
The fun will come from racing the tweaked-out systems, bringing them together to render awesome graphics, or participating in multi-player games.
This is a HUGE opportunity to foster LUGs in places other than the "big city".
Good Luck.
Parent
Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:5, Insightful)
A company as large as Walmart might be just big enough and have enough bargain-basement customers to make this fly. And at $299 for the Duron 850mhz model, who can't afford one of these.
One problem I can see is that the hardware in these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par level. Instability issues caused by poor hardware quality may undermine the "frugal" consumer's viewpoint of the *nix OS enviroment. Not to mention that they'll have a hard time finding tech support locally considering that most tech shops are generally geared towards MS products and not Linux.
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:5, Interesting)
The hardware may be crud, but if it is, drag it down the block to WalMart and get a replacement box. And now that it has an OS included, you can prove that the hardware is broke.
This is not to say "Behold WalMart, our savior", but rather to say "Now that Microsoft has some serious threat to worry about, we may be able to catch our breath before heading back into the arena..."
And at $300 bucks, assembled, with warranty, it practically meets my definition for "buy it for the parts".
Parent
$300 Duron...no FDD (Score:4, Interesting)
One little detail about that Duron (although it's probably not a big detail) is that they left out the floppy drive on that model.
With bootable CD-ROMs and networks not having a floppy is not a big problem, but for the first-timer this could be a big problem.
Oh yeah, Fry's is entering the $300 market soon...actually sub-$300. They will be putting out a Celeron 1GHz machine, preloaded with ThizLinux, whatever the fsck that is. They're just waiting on the shipment at this point. And this one *has* a floppy drive.
Actually it would be better if they all did preloads with Lycoris Linux [lycoris.com] but still, it is a good thing that Walmart has the guts to do this. So far, Microsoft hasn't complained. I think they realize that even an 800lb. Gorilla like MS has to pick their battles.
Parent
Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly (Score:5, Interesting)
- lUser buys a Lindows PC from walmart
- lUser cannot figure out how to cut and paste from the Mozilla web browser to Abiword (a harsh welcome to Xwindows indeed). Worse, he never did figure out that to print he had to type "ghostview - | lpr -Pepson277
- lUser realizes that the "screen is ugly" (i.e. fonts suck)
- lUser cannot get onto The AOL.
- of 100,000 units sold, 70,000 get returned.
- walmart takes a bath. "Linux Sucks" is now "proven" to all the business execs with buying power. Nothing scares the CFO like "losing money."
- Linux returns to it's ashes, the supergeek community.
linux may not be ready for this, folks.
Parent
Will games be tested with wine now? (Score:5, Insightful)
AFAIK, Lindows is based on wine. Wal-Mart customers will tend to buy a lot of games for their computer. Sounds to me like manufactures will soon find it a requirement to test their games with Lindows, and thus they will be wine compatable too.
Not as good as native linux games, but a close second. If nothing else this could drive some real compitition to microsoft!
If only it works... I'm not holding my breath yet.
Re:Will games be tested with wine now? (Score:5, Funny)
what? you want 3d games?
nononono, remember- these are the same people who made FREECELL and SOLITAIRE popular. Once they go to the games section and see there are more than solitaire, freecell, mines, and hearts, they're heads will explode.
no need for 3d:)
Parent
Windows v. Lindows (Score:4, Funny)
1997: I got Winders Ninedy Eight!
2000: I got Winders Doodousand!
2001: I got Winders EckPee!
2002: I got Linders? What da hell is Linders?
Not easy enough... (Score:4, Insightful)
To me, it didn't seem to be much more than KDE2 default with a pretty picture for the background. This is a problem. KDE default is NOT intuitive to Windows users.
I am currently helping a co-worker who is curious about Linux learn her way around on one of the spare machines here. Her first question (w/ RH 7.3 default) was that even after 10 minutes of poking at stuff she could not find the taskbar buried in with all that other stuff. That was just the beginning.
If you are going to cater to the Windows crowd you have to _really_ cater to them, not just change the icon theme.
Re:Not easy enough... (Score:4, Interesting)
<persuasionspeech option=prolinux>
Of course, that's user experience of someone who has probably been brought up using Windows. Of course, it won't be as easy to use for her.
I just built a dual-boot system for my Aunt, Uncle, and three cousins. None of them have ever touched a computer for more than an hour in their life.
I showed my cousins (girls ages 8, 10, and 12) how to use Windows, and then how to use linux. When I showed them how to browse from their home directory up two levels, and into the mounted windows partition, their first question was why they couldn't do the same thing from Windows! Youngsters are bright, and pick up these things very quickly!
Before long, they had found ways to change their background (in KDE), to a background from the /dos1/windows directory, on their own! They never hit the "taskbar hiccup" you're referring to.
The ten year old quickly decided that she was going to use gnome. Her reason? She liked using the "Cool: sunglasses" icon overlay for her documents, available with about 7 others by right clicking, and choosing properties on any icon. I didn't even know such stuff was in there!
When newbies grab onto linux over windows because of eye candy, you can tell that the balance is getting ready to shift. Will it be far enough for us to feel it? I think I can finally answer that with a "likely".
</persuasionspeech>
Parent
Good for Walmart. (Score:5, Interesting)
Screw the "legions of rednecks" idea, I believe there are many people who are curious enough about other OSes to get an extra computer, especially since they are supposed to be cheap, from Walmart just to poke around. Who knows once the average Joe realized that their are other options maybe he'll download some Debian images and never use Windows again.
Cheers to Walmart, good job guys.
Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company. (Score:5, Interesting)
> Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry
utter bullshit.
Guess who has the largest *private* database in the world. (and is the SOLE reason that NCR Teradata is still alive) Wal-Mart (with somewhere around 130TB in thier Topend system)
Guess who has the largest single IMAP install in the world? Wal-Mart Guess who is (or was) Dell's Largest customer...Wal-Mart
Guess who employees over 1400 in house (not contractors) programmers (in a single location (ok, you can split hairs with SMWDC/DMGTC being seperate)...Wal-Mart
Guess which retail chain bet the bank on EDI before the next 6 largest guys even thought of it...Wal-Mart
With over 2500 stores and a sub 2 second transaction time to *all of them* , how the heck did you think they were *NOT* a technology based company!?
That crap about Wally world not being a technology company is baloney. Sam Walton bet the bank on computer technology when his rivals were still using paper invoices.
I would note that the decision to sell Lindows prob has nothing to do with Wal-Mart as a company, but a lot to do with what it's Buyers and Marketing dept think will sell. (To those who have never worked in the corporate side of retail, Buyers are the guys/gals who buy the things the company then sells to it's customers, they typically work out the deals, many retail firms use independant buyers, but Wally world (and a few, very few) other companies do it all in house)).
If someone really wants to know why they are selling Lindows, then ship off a message to president@wal-mart.com, The are quite good about responding, though I'm not sure what their answer will be.
About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.
--Tadghe, former WalMartian.
Parent
Re:Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Interview possibility (Score:5, Interesting)
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You guys just don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)
The almighty dollar.
Walmart does not care about Linux geeks clutching their little stuffed penguins and waving their "Open Source" flags. They do not care about someone who walks into a store to tell the tech department that they should sell machines with Linux on it. They care about money. They have always cared about money, and they always will care about money. They are the most efficient corporation in the whole world, and they are efficient because it makes money. Anyone who thinks that Walmart's #1 priority is not about money needs to take some courses in Economics, wake up, and smell the capitalism.
I've been working in the backstock rooms of Walmarts for three years now, and I've overheard the managers on quite a few occasions. Walmart demands cheap prices from their distributors. They're the #1 retailer in the US, so they have the power to do so. They lure distributors into their system by offering to sell thier product, then stab them in the back a year or two later and demand the product be cheaper, or they'll find someone else. This leads product manufacturers to use overseas labor and/or lower the quality of the product, all to stay buddies with Walmart. When you see the adds of Walmart lowering their prices, they can do so because its not their company that takes a hit in profits...it's the manufacturers that do.
I'm sure Walmart did the same thing with this Microtel company when they asked for computers. When Microtel was put under the gun to make a cheaper computer, I'm sure they cut every single corner. Just look at it from a $$$ perspective..."Hey Walmart, we got this OS that looks like Windows, runs like Windows, and can run %90 of Windows software, but we can put it on every machine for absolutely no charge!"...Walmart will say yes, because they now have a "Windows-ish" computer that sells for $100 less than the competition.
And for those of you who say that there might be a high-return rate? Walmart doesn't care. If people return their computers, all Walmart has to do is box it up and ship it back to Microtel. The only loss that they take is paying some 16-year old $2 to take the time to box it back up and stick it on a pallet. It's certainly worth their time, considering that these computers are %10-%20 cheaper than the competition. If it fails, Walmart returns the computers, Walmart dumps Microtel and finds another manufacturer, and Microtel goes belly-up, and Walmart leaves unscathed. If it's a success, Walmart gets the credit.
Wake up and smell the dollar bills.
Parent
heh.. (Score:5, Insightful)
*omg* is it even out of beta already? (Score:4, Informative)
From my experience, they might be combining MS-like stability and security (running everything as root etc.) with Linux-like usability*, resulting in a horribly unusable OS - for which Linux will most probably get the blame by mainstream reporters. Ah well, we'll see.
Walmarts idea is probably something like this: they can save money on the computers this way, and they probably don't really care about what their customers use it for (do they have a reason to? Do they have to offer support etc.?), so that would explain things....
* usability for Joe Avg. User, e.g. consistent GUI's and stuff, you know what I mean...combining Wine and KDE and X will not get you a very consistent UI experience probably....
Re:*omg* is it even out of beta already? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that this is the real reason. They don't want to catch 10 kinds of hell from MS about selling "naked" PCs, so they throw Lindows on it instead. Net cost to them? Nothing. Bitching from MS about selling naked PCs? None. Net loss to a consumer who wants a naked PC in order to install a pirated copy of Windows? None. Bitching from MS about selling PCs with a competitor's product? None, if MS doesn't want to put a neon sign over their collective heads that reads "illegal use of monopoly power".
Besides, what likely is going to happen is that a user will get it home with Lindows, find out that it isn't Windows and it won't run whatever game they want to play, and then they'll come back to WallyWorld to buy a full copy of Windows XP. That's a bigger sale to WalMart and a bigger sale for MS. The only people who really have anything to lose from it are the Lindows folks who stand to gain a fair amount of negative press if they piss off consumers. Instead of looking like a company that is trying to bring Linux to the mainstream user with an easy-to-use compatible Windows-like interface they run the risk of looking like someone peddling a cheap knock-off that is trying to trade on Microsoft's name.
Parent
I hope they harden them. (Score:5, Interesting)
The sum of all Lindows fears.
Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.
Now I haven't seen the packaging for these Lindows PCs, but I'd be willing to bet that some people COULD be confused into believing they're in fact buying a Windows PC. When they do discover their error, they'll think they were suckered into buying some kind of like a cheap knock-off (don't have the exact appropriate Simpsons quote).
If that happens, it's probably not the kind of PR that Lindows is looking for. Both Lindows and Wal-Mart have to be very careful to make sure the differences between Windows and Lindows are clearly explained.
Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Appropriate Simpsons Quote (Score:5, Funny)
Bart: Don't be a sap dad. These are just crappy knock-offs.
Homer: I know a genuine 'Panaphonics' when I see one. And look, there's 'Magnet Box' and 'Sorny'!
Salesman: [walking up] Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Those are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV, and I mean _really_ watch it, you want the Carnivale'. [shows Homer and Bart a TV very similar to their old one] It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well, durable outer casing to prevent fallapart...]
Homer: Sold. You wrap it up, I'll start bringing in the pennies.
[3F11] Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield
Parent
Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would they assume it's a problem with Lindows and not with the program they are trying to install? Think about it this way - if they were running Windows, bought a copy of Photoshop, and unsuccessfully tried to install it, would they call Microsoft or Adobe? They would call Adobe, of course. Let's just hope they use the same logic with Lindows. If enough people do this with software that breaks under Wine, the companies publishing that software will eventually figure out that it's worth the extra day or two to debug their software under Wine before shipping it.
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Impression? (Score:5, Informative)
Of course it will. They'll think it's fantastic, right up to the point when they try to install their favourite Windows applications and it all goes horribly wrong.
Then they'll mutter "crock of shit" and take it back to Walmart to complain.
Not that I blame them, Walmart is advertising it as having the ability to run most Microsoft software, which (unless it's changed drastically) isn't quite the case.
I'm all for getting Linux to the masses, but if they oversell what it can do, then they'll end up putting off people rather than attracting them.
Do they really need Windows? (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem for me, however, was that I was 16/17 at the time I was selling these computers, living at home. I got all my referrals from my mom, since she knew the people. She has seen me coding in a Linux console, and after seeing that, started spreading anti-Linux FUD to all the people she was referring to me ("He'll build you a great computer, but he'll try to put Linux on it -- don't let him do that."). I found this out when people started specifically asking NOT to have Linux on their machines (though I've never sold a Linux machine to anyone). Star Craft and Half-Life both run under WineX.
What's the point of this rambling? If you are young and live at home, make sure your parents don't spread Linux FUD, and if you are older, make sure your wife doesn't spread Linux FUD, and if you're old and single, well, get out more. But the real moral of the story is: most people don't need Windows, or even the apps they're used to. Give them a few of their staple apps, such as Star Craft, Quicken, Word, and then fill in the rest with Open Source software, and slowly convert them away from their staple apps (and convert game programmers away from their staple OS). This is exactly what Lindows is doing.
Some people think Lindows will take over Linux and become a Linux monopoly, others think Lindows will just act as the gateway into a new world of software. Whatever. See above for the point of this disjointed, redundant rambling.
Parent
This will NOT create a legion of new Linux users (Score:5, Insightful)
So, who has access to the Wal*Mart website? Those people who already have a computer. Who goes to Wal*Mart.com to buy a PC? Outside of those people that want an OS-less PC to install Linux on, probably not a large number of people.
This isn't going to convert unsuspecting people to Linux users (a dangerous thing to wish for at any rate). It isn't going to spread Linux to the mass market. It isn't going to steal any appreciable market share away from Microsoft.
It's noteworthy for the fact that a major retailer has thumbed their nose at Microsoft. But, that same major retailer is only thumbing their nose while behind a box in a locked room with the shades drawn so that the world can not really see that they are doing it.
If other major computer resellers follow suit (which I doubt they will), then this will become interesting. Now, though, it's nothing more than YALPOS (Yet Another Linux Post On Slashdot)
rednecks? you should be so fortunate (Score:5, Insightful)
But what makes this observation interesting is that their is also an undercurrent of clubiness (sic?) about the whole thing. The idea that the masses could actually start using Linux is troubling to this group, as it would dilute the cachet of the club. This is bizarre to say the least, as mainstream adoption of Linux would only serve to achieve the first point, respect, and of course the other obsession, deflation of microsoft.
I don't take particular offense to the redneck comments, but you would really have to be an idiot to think that only rednecks shop at Walmart. I mean, christ, they have over $200b in sales. I guess the only thing that would make you a bigger idiot is to not understand how many personal computers are sold in the US annually, and how many of them go through channels like walmart.
Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product (Score:4, Interesting)
Previously, Linux and other alternatives have been positioned as being too disimilar to Windows for the average consumer to take notice. While early adopters and niche users may see the differences as the key selling points, the average consumer is looking for compatibility and familiarity FIRST, then other advantages SECOND (price, stability, and misc. features).
Wal-Mart's actions not only position alternative operating systems in a different light, they also serve to re-position Windows itself by making the Windows Operating System appear to be a commodity like the PC has long been. When advertising the compatibility of Lindows, their enormous market power allow them to be more liberal with their use of the Microsoft and Windows brandnames than your average software developer or computer retailer could ever chance.
This is may be very analogous to what happened to the IBM PC vs. the clones as well as the situation with generic drugs. Many continue to buy the "genuine" branded article, but others will take personal pride in buying the "same" product for less - and maybe even with some different or better features thrown in for free.
This might be a first step in fragmenting the market around a common Windows compatible "standard" offered by multiple vendors at competitive prices. Also, it could result in opening more people's eyes to the advantages of using non-Windows based systems to meet their individual needs. I imagine that the reality will be somewhere in the middle, and that this will be a good thing for both consumers and business.
"legions of rednecks" (Score:5, Insightful)
To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows
Could you be more condescending?
~jeff
others will need to compete now (Score:4, Insightful)
AOL the Killer App. (Score:5, Insightful)
Support? (Score:4, Insightful)
What I'm curious about is the tech support issue. It seems to me that by offering a Lindows pre-installed PC, it's now in Wal*Mart's interest to see Lindows be as stable as possible and as compatable with Windows applications as possible.
Does anyone suppose they plan to help out Lindows development if, say, the next version of some popular Windows software doesn't work with Lindows? Now that would really impress me. (And then I'd think about buying one of these boxes.)
So much for the "Linux Populism" theory (Score:5, Insightful)
This will backfire (Score:4, Interesting)
Now that Walmart is selling these Lindows machines I see a similar problem. Joe User buys a computer, but he can't run half the apps his friend can run, like games. He takes the computer back to Walmart, gets his money back and swears the Lindows sucks. So now in his mind Lindows sucks and anything that sounds like Lindows (i.e. Linux) sucks too. After a couple of months Walmart will get tired of giving people their money back and stop selling computers with Lindows installed. Now it's not just a failure on Walmart, but on Lindows which in turn is a failure for Linux and the Open Source community.
Hence MS now has more fuel for their fud campaigns. I don't see this as a winning situation for Linux or OSS.
Most Americans shop at Walmart and they will sell a lot of these computers. This really looks bad to me, really bad.
On the other hand, I don't really care if Linux "beats" MS. I like my Debian whether Joe Shmoe does or not.
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you people should be glad that Wal-Mart is embracing something other than Windows, instead of being so damn smug. Get off your high horse and join the movement, or shut the f*** up.
That's all I have to say about that.
Parent
Re:the "wal-mart crowd" (Score:4, Funny)
Buying from local merchant: Good.
Buying from non-local stone-age tribesmen: Good. No, wait, bad! No, wait, good!
Buying at Giant Swedish Superstore: Good.
Buying from Large Arkansas Superstore: Bad.
Hey, if I move to Bentonville, can I still shop at Wal-mart?
Parent
Re:windows (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Speaking of Rednecks... (Score:5, Funny)
Mark my words.
Go on, mark 'em! I dare you!
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Re:Haha..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Frankly, the usage of "redneck" in this case is classically racist! The author has no knowledge whatsoever of the individuals purchasing these computers, and is making broad generalizations as to what types of people shop at Walmart. (I suppose the "niggers" shop at K-Mart, eh?)
It would be more appropriate and acceptable to yell "Fucking goddamned nigger!" at a baggy-pants black youth crossing on a green light. Or if it was a dumpy white lady, "You fucking fat-ass bitch!" Or an Asian, "Me rikey you go faster, cross walk long time!!"
Cultural hot-words can be used to express displeasure with an
However, the article summary's use of "redneck" lambasts the very market most Linux zealots pretend to want to conquer -- the common working man. And it appears it was done merely as a way to demean other people via the use of a loophole in politically correct dogma.
heehheeh lomaolf!!!!
Parent
Re:Haha..... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Redneck" is a race-blind slur.
I went to middle school with white, black, and hispanic rednecks. and i'm glad i no longer have to deal with any of them.
"Cracker" or "White Trash" is the slur you're looking for.
however the difference between those and "nigger" is nigger implies nothing about culture or economic standing. it's purely racist. racists might call Colin Powell or Halle Berry niggers, but you wouldn't call a rich promonent white person White Trash or a Redneck.
cultural slurs, while still offensive, bother me less than outright racial slurs.
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Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:4, Insightful)
It isn't windows.
If what you expect Genuine Windows then BUY Genuine Windows.
Hopefully the good differences will be better than the bad differences, but there is a difference. I've never used it, so I don't know if it's "ready".
-
Parent
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:4, Interesting)
Apologies, I shouldn't have said "Genuine Windows", I should have said "Genuine Microsoft Windows".
This issue has been decided in court. Microsoft Windows is a trademark of Microsoft. Windows is a generic term. Lindows is a trademark of... ummm... someone else (chuckle).
If a salesman or anyone else indicates that Lindows is Microsoft Windows then they are at fault. Complain to the store. Get a refund. Sue them if need be. It is not Lindow's responsibility.
P.S.
impressed if Lindows actually ran MOST Windows software
Yes, exactly what it does/doesn't run is an interesting question.
-
Parent
Re: Is it ready? (Score:5, Insightful)
develpment is that you can't find all the
sticky problems until you get real users
using the thing.
Consider Mozilla: progress was slow until
the 0.9.x milestones, then all of a sudden
it was good enough that a lot of users who
tried it liked it enough to start using it
as their regular browser, and whammo, the
bugs started dropping like flies, and it
shaped up incredibly in just a few weeks.
Same thing with Linux. Technical excellence
aside, it was nowhere near ready for the
typical end user until quite recently, but
as the user base spreads beyond developers
to end users, amazing strides are made in
its _usability_ for end users. There's a
breaking point somewhere, where enough
users adopt a piece of software that the
bugs show up and can be fixed. You don't
reach that point without early adopters.
Parent
Re:Lindows? Is it ready? (Score:5, Funny)
The same is true of 'genuine' Windows.
But I do wonder how well Lindows does when you stick a random Win32 app. CD in. My experience with WINE (up to a few months ago) has been generally bad.
Parent
Re:OS X (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:OS X (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
as someone who grew up in arkansas (Score:4, Insightful)
many of you shop there.
currently the waltons (son's and daughters of sam so to speak) have more money than gates and ellison combined.
all this was made by a redneck without a college education. hell i dont even think he had a highschool education.
it's nice to see that by getting educated and growing up in a civilized society you all (y'all if you like) have become tolerant understanding people forgoing prejudice towards your fellow human beings.
Parent
Re:"legions of rednecks?" (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not true.
One of my best friends in college made $50k right out of school, and was making a six figure salary at age 22
Though this is not the norm, it isn't bad for a two year degree. Mechanics earn a lot more money than the old days, partly because now you need to know what you're doing, but mostly because there is a shortage of mechanics to fill positions. Not exactly a dime a dozen.
Bullshit attitudes like yours towards mechanics are among the reasons why I am no longer a mechanic myself. Yes, there are some weasels out there, but saying that mechanics are rednecks, is like saying that all programmers are pizza faced, mountain dew drinking, slobs who don't shower. Take a moment to step off your elite pedestal and try becoming informed.
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