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Migrating Your Office from Windows to Linux?

Posted by Cliff on Fri May 17, 2002 01:17 PM
from the thanks-for-the-new-licensing-scheme-Bill dept.
bastiji asks: "I work at a mid-sized company, around 50 people and 90% M$ shop (10% being the Sun server doing our backups). Most of my users are using Office 85% of the time with some specialized apps thrown in for good measure. With the upcoming licensing changes from M$ my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own. I've been to told to look for alternatives and I'm asking for your help. How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options. Are there any examples for mid-sized firms taking this route and any public examples of cost-savings?"
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  • Good Luck (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mittermeyer (195358) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:19PM (#3538699) Homepage
    I expect that like Linux at ISPs this is sneaking up on everyone, but may be difficult to find companies publicly willing to risk Microsoft wrath by being open about it.
    • Re:Good Luck (Score:5, Insightful)

      by soloport (312487) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:33PM (#3538826)
      Diferentiate between quick-learners and, uh, reluctant-learners, first. If you can't figure this out intuitively, ask. "Would you like to try something new?"

      Entice even *one* person to try a new, alternative Office suite (start with an MS-Windows install of TOS Office). Ask for their feedback. Observe their learnning experience and learn from it, yourself. Then take it to the next level.

      Teach a half-dozen people -- in your spare time. Grow your "install base". Always return to the original group(s) and make sure they're not feeling abandoned, etc.

      Next, introduce *one* new person to a "pretty" desktop (Grome/KDE). Show them all the ease-of-use options first. Then help them understand the details as they walk through the learning curve. Every newbie will be diferent. But every newbie needs encouragement; A reason to stay the course.

      By all means, show them the same app. they used on MS-Windows (e.g. TOS Office) running on the new desktop! Help them make "familiarity connections".

      Be methodical, plodding, patient and open-minded. You'll succeed far sooner than you ever dreamed! The initial newbies, if you employ them, will help newer newbies. And the love will spread...

      Do I sound like I've done this before? ;-)

    • Re:Good Luck (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rseuhs (322520)
      I think the best would be a 3-step strategy:

      • 1) Install StarOffice and Mozilla on all computers and switch to multi-platform standards like rtf, pdf or Staroffices format.
      • 2) Fade out IE, MS Office and all Windows-only apps. This will be the hardest thing to do. Don't buy any upgrades, tell users to use Staroffice when they notice that they can't read the newest .docs with MS Office anymore. If you need some Windows-only apps, you can check if they work reliably in Wine, which is likely with office-apps.
      • 3) Don't switch PCs to Linux, just gradually replace Win PCs with Linux PCs when they are getting old and are renewed.

      Only proceed to the next step when the current one is fully completed.

      P.S.:
      You can also run MS Office with CodeWeaver's CrossOver (also based on Wine), but since you want to cut costs, you probably don't want to run MS Office.

  • by FortKnox (169099) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:20PM (#3538706) Homepage Journal
    Give the techies the linux boxes and the business guys keep windows. Always keep window's boxes, cause customers will always send documents and reports in some microsoft format, so make it available.

    Plus, changing business guys over to linux is no easy task.
      • erm. When I said:

        "...Linux simply cannot read some of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), you still need to keep some MS products around"

        I really meant:

        "...Linux apps capable of reading all of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), do not exist yet, you still need to keep some MS products around."
      • "Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work."

        Screensavers? Have you SEEN the latest full Gnome install? I could spend an hour browsing through the stock screen savers! As for wallpaper, that's cross platform. A jpeg is a jpeg is a jpeg. P2P apps would be a problem if it wasn't for wine [codeweavers.com] and people like Frank [franksworld.net], who've figured it out for you. Closed formats are really the only thing that Microsoft apps can read that Linux apps can't. Even that barrier is crumbling.
  • Simple (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mrm677 (456727) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:23PM (#3538735)
    Don't upgrade. Office 97/2000 will work fine for the next few years. At that time, your financial circumstances may be different or Linux may have even closed the gap some more making it a more viable alternative. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and M$ will develop Office for Linux (who's laughing now?)
    • by sterno (16320) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:30PM (#3538804) Homepage
      It does seem like it should be that simple but you neglect the existence of the BSA audit. If you go that route you can expect to hear from the BSA before too long offering an amnesty if you buy the latest versions of the software. If you don't, of course, they'll take you to court and they'll get you for that one or two pieces of software you didn't license. Every company has one or two pieces of software they didn't license. That's all they need to get you for the software costs and legal fees. Fun, non?

      My suggestion is that if you choose not to go the Microsoft route make a point of either:

      1) purging every vestige of microsoft's sofware from your office

      2) making sure everything is in pristine order for when the BSA comes along

      • Looks like Seattle schools are going to have the same problem [usatoday.com] as you.


        From the article
        Call Eric Harrison at the Multnomah Educational Service District in Portland, Ore. Since 1997, Harrison has been developing networks based on the free Linux operating system. His latest project links 40 older PCs to a single set of software applications running on a central Linux server computer. The cost: $200 a seat vs. $1,500 a seat for PCs running Microsoft, he says.
      • F*** the BSA. If the BSA comes anywhere near you, and you are not some major corporation who would lose as much from the bad publicity as MS would, flip em off. Tell them to come back with a warrant if they want to conduct any type of audit. THen go to every media outlet you know of (the problem solers, etc.) and explain how MS' jackbooted thugs are harrassing you for no reason, how the cost of doing the audit is a heavy financial burden on your company, etc. MS' can not and dos not want to deal with the bad publicity anymore. Period.

        Of course, none of this applies if you have bootleg software all over the place, but if you are legit company who is slightly out of compliance, fight back. And don't forget to call your attorney too.
        • See here's what happens. The BSA says play nice with them and they'll be lenient with you. Nice means either paying for new software or paying for them to audit you and then pay for the license you were supposed to have. Keep in mind, that having a copy of office and a receipt for it is not legally licensed unless you've got the little certificate of authenticity. So if you weren't keep pristine records they'll possibly have you paying twice for your software.

          Now, that's the "NICE" approach. The less than nice approach is that they file suit against you in court. During discovery they get to audit you and can find that lone piece of software that was infringing. Now you have to pay for that license, penalties, court costs, audit costs, damages. Now if it turns out that you are the one organization on earth that has all of your software licensed legitmately, then you can probably recover the costs for your legal defense, but even then you just wasted a lot of time and resources.
  • by whizzird (129373) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:25PM (#3538753)
    I'd suggest having the users (or leads or whatever) try the windows version of star office. Make sure they can do what they need to do, before you switch them. Otherwise you'll be forced to switch back, and they'll have a negative view of Linux.
    Also make a list (you can't plan something like this too much) of all the apps they're using, and what features they're using, and make sure you can provide all of those features before you switch.

    And put lots of pictures of Tux around the place. His cute smile will calm everyone's fears. :)
    • by Fjord (99230) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:48PM (#3538941) Homepage Journal
      Similarily, get people using Mozilla instead of IE. Using the Windows versions of the Linux applications they will be using will make the transition much easier.

      Also check the how well specialized applications under wine. Don't just read the ranking in the codewearvers database: actually use it.
  • by essdodson (466448) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:26PM (#3538770) Homepage
    Have your finance people taken into account that the majority of the employees know Microsoft products fairly well and would have to be retrained for such a migration. The problem getting Linux or other OSS into the office isn't cost or a technical issue. Its a people issue, plain and simple people know MS Products, they've been using them for years. A move to a completely different operating system and business suit will leave the employees feeling abandoned and useless and will more than likely hurt productivity.

    Something to consider. This is probably the biggest reason that OSS has had such a hard time infiltrating the office.

    • This is just a lot of FUD. Currently Linux Windows Managers are an easy transistion from Windows. In fact most Windows users will catch on quickly. The biggest train issue will be the Office Suite. Luckly most office suites tend to be a lot like MS Office in Menus and Commands to the move won't be as hard as expected. No retrain won't be a big problem. The problem will be the fear of moving from Windows to Linux that some of the Employees will have.
      • by mckayc (307712) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:27PM (#3539240)
        Put your average Windows user in front of a Linux box and ask them to do something they can do in Windows like change the background. Watch them panic when they can't do it, or don't know where the C Drive is. It's not because they're stupid, they're just not used to the differences between the two OSes.

        If you ignore the issue of retraining because "Linux Windows Managers are an easy transition" you're quite simply dimwitted.
        • Most Windows users don't know where the C drive is. They store everything they do in My Documents because that's what the save screen defaults to. They may put in some subdirectories, but that's about as advanced as your likely to see on the average user's machine.

          You could tell the average windows user they have to save everything on the D drive and you'd encounter at least as much panic as you would switching them to a different OS.

    • Many years ago the company I worked for migrated from word perfect lotus 123 to work/excel. it was a
      painful transition for the average secretary, but the tech staff didn't care much.

      In my opinion, the people who claim to "know" ms office products actually have an arcane set of incantations and bad practices that get the job done. the retraining you speak of should be rephrased as "learning a whole new set of bad heuristics". I haven't really used any ms product since 1997, but when i glace over my shoulder at my wife's work on word, i want to retch at her one-at-a-time modification of paragraph styles, intendation, and so on. And she is considered a small miracle worker amongst her co-workers.

      That aside, my migration path away from windows is to get away from the whole what you see is what you get trap. what you see is all you get. Instead,
      make everybody use LaTeX, cold turkey, and hire a LaTeX hack to devise a set of document formats for your company---reports, memos, letters, etc. That's how I switched. First MikTeX, then Emacs to use MikTeX, then ghostview to see the .ps output, then gnumeric got pretty usable at version 0.4 i think, and voila, i jumped into linux with a completely compatible set of skills.

      I've been installing MikTeX around the office here on various windows boxes, and the latest setup is pretty nice, and there are some excellent setup instructions linked from that page. Although Emacs has a learning curve, AucTeX is pretty great, and with Flyspell running in the background, Word users can even get their spelling checked as they type.

  • by forkboy (8644) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:27PM (#3538779) Homepage
    Are you looking to get away from M$ entirely, or just Office because of its hideous licensing scheme?

    You're in for a real treat if you're going to try and get an alternative OS going in an environment that's not filled with techies....most of these people took years just to "learn" Windows, Linux (or whatever) is going to be a nightmare for them.

    Maybe you should just look into a different office suite.

    As a side note, it really bites my ass that M$ is trying to leverage companies into paying more money because of the fear of having to switch to new apps that possibly might be incompatible with other companies' documents. Yet another reason proprietary technology sucks. There needs to be an industry-wide switch to open document formats....RTF and whatever the spreadsheet and presentation software equivalents might be.

  • by T3kno (51315) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:28PM (#3538786) Homepage
    If I were doing this I would create a "I want that" sort of environment. What I mean is pick a Linux distro that has a lot of eye candy and cool features, ala SuSE or Mandrake, and give it to some of your more advanced users, those willing to experiment a little bit. Let them play around with it, and give them some freedom to customize as much as they want. Once they start to really make the GUI look nice, and playing with some of the stuff that is just not available with out of the box Windows/Office they will start to attract other users. Have them tell the rest of the staff that this is the "future" and they are beta testing for the optimal environment. It wouldn't hurt if you got them new machine, or monitors, give a users some incentive to learn and use Linux.

    With KDE 3 it's really not that hard to learn the OS, how many Windows users use a CMD shell, the same will be true for the average run of the mill Linux user if the GUI is setup right. I have been using KDE3 for a while now and it is at least as easy if not easier than Windows to do just about anything.

    If you allow fairly unrestricted Internet access I would make sure that all of the multimedia apps are working correctly, and that flash is working as well. These are big things for the weenies, they want the bells and whistles that Windows provides, and with a good distro they're all there, but they may need some tweaking to get them running flawlessly.

    Just my $0.02, but that is what I would do.
  • Slow transition (Score:5, Interesting)

    by crow (16139) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:28PM (#3538789) Homepage Journal
    Plan a slow transition. Microsoft is going to hit you with a deadline to buy into their subscription system. The deadline is that if you don't buy in by then, you have to pay full price for upgrades in the future. But you can ignore that since you'll be transitioning away from Microsoft instead of upgrading.

    If you're lucky, your custom apps will run with Wine or can even be compiled with winelib to be native on Linux, even if they are a pain to port to real Linux apps.

    If you find you can't effectively transition your apps, you can stick with Windows, but drop Office in favor of Star/Open Office. Even if you get stuck paying more for OS licensing, you'll save a huge bundle on the other licenses. If you do that, just be sure you're very careful with not letting unlicensed copies of MS Office onto your systems, or you'll be in big trouble if a BSA audit comes along.
  • by schowley (415879) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:28PM (#3538792) Homepage Journal
    The company I work for will be converting the entire backend to Sun Microsystems machines. While working with the Sun engineers I asked about alternatives to M$ as well, and it turns out that moving off M$ to a Sun thin client was easier than I had expected. We have 110 users and may look at using the Sun iplanet app server to administer our in house apps through an intranet portal to the desktop.
  • HTH (Score:5, Informative)

    by cymraeg (578870) <sean@nosPAM.full.vu> on Friday May 17 2002, @01:29PM (#3538799)

    In my experience, it's best to replace your servers with Linux, particularly because end-users tend to be more resistant to change concerning their day-to-day activities. If you're using Windows NT for file and print sharing, then you can easily replace those with Linux and Samba. The user's won't care what the server OS is so long as they have access to their files and printers. Most of your cash outflow can be stopped here. Of course, if you have specialized apps that require MS software (ASP scripts), then you'll need to maintain those, but for pure file and print sharing, you can easily go the Linux/Samba route.

    For internet services, you're set. Linux can do everything Windows can and more. For SQL services, you can migrate data from MS SQL to any myriad of free SQL servers available from Linux. Just make sure that your SQL statements are ANSI compliant.

    You'll just have to handle these on a case-by-case basis.

    For the end users, consider OpenOffice as a replacement for MS Office. There are plenty of good browsers for Linux (Mozilla and Opera) that can replace IE. Eventually, you can get users used to using Linux with KDE/GNOME and still give them the functionality they need.

    One caveat: in my experience, leave the accountants alone. They tend to be moody, set in their ways, and can become quite a strain on your happiness if you try to mess with their routines.

    The only thing I can offer you advice on are your custom apps. For those you can either just live with the fact that you need MS for them, try to find Open Source alternatives, or if written in-house, consider porting.

    I hope this helps you a tiny bit. Best of luck!

  • One way ... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by halftrack (454203) <jonkje AT gmail DOT com> on Friday May 17 2002, @01:29PM (#3538801) Homepage
    ... is the hard and brutal way. Buy some easy Linux distros (Mandrake or perhaps RedHat) then send all employees away to learn about using Linux. If they are depending on the haunting .doc format run Office through Wine. The special windows software should either be run through Wine or in an emulator such as VMware (although this would require a separate Windows license.) Get some geeks/gurus to work on making Wine working near perfect.

    Whatever you chose professional training and a support deal with the distro manufacturer.
  • by VAXGeek (3443) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:30PM (#3538802) Homepage
    I suggest moving your server to an Intel 386DX/33 with at LEAST 16 mb of RAM. That should have no problem running a pre-1997 version of Linux. For Internet connectivity, you can get a 56k modem very cheaply from Best Buy. You should be able to lease a 24 hour 56k baud line from Earthlink at about $60 a month. This will be much cheaper than the costly T1 you have now. Move the clients to VT320s. You should be able to find a few terminal servers at Salvation Army, or perhaps K-mart. As for Office Software, hand out LaTeX manuals and have your users use vi for inputting, and then they can run LaTeX for the nice output. This should save on licensing costs on the server/clients, and a VT320 is a lot easier to maintain than a full PC. Instead of Outlook, teach your users how to use mailx. Instead of IE, give them a few lessons in lynx. You might want to limit the amount of users that you let surf the web concurrently, because with 16mb of RAM, we don't want the server thrashing too hard. Backups should be no problem. You should be able to fit all of the server's data files onto a zipdisk, which you can connect through the parallel port on the PC. Also, junk all your old HP LaserJets and pick up some old DEC LP printers. They can do quite a few pages an hour, as long as you don't mind the noise. If you implement my plan, I bet your users will be smiling all day!
  • by bsharma (577257) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:32PM (#3538816)
    I have been using it and it is simply great. Absolutely better than StarOffice and a fraction of the MS Office cost.
  • by toupsie (88295) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:32PM (#3538818) Homepage
    Give me your business name and location. I will call the BSA to perform a free audit of your company. I am sure after the friendly BSA auditors finish, your boss will see the reduction of cost moving to Linux will be. Don't worry about paying my consultancy fee for assisting you in this matter, I am sure the BSA will kick back some bucks to me because, without a doubt, your finance guys forgot to pay for every license for every software package on your company's computers.
  • by jest3r (458429) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:33PM (#3538824)
    At this point you really don't .. because most of your employees also use Windows at home ...

    As an experiment some of our more computer literate employees switched to Linux - but in the end had to switch back due to a plethora of small but annoying problems.

    These included opening files sent via email .. as well as simple things like fonts not displaying properly .. websites not working properly (ie. streaming win media) (yes we know about crossover but BUYING a program to run FREE windows programs seems wrong) .. file system structure .. and believe it or not the 'ugly' interface was mentioned quite a few times. Yes GNOME looks nice - but its nowhere near as polished as Windows or Aqua ..
  • by nedron (5294) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:33PM (#3538825) Homepage
    I would call this a small company, but that actually makes the proposition easier.

    First, evaluate the alternatives. What applications can be replaced with Linux equivalents and which can't. For the ones that can't, would it be cost-effective to consider limited licensing for those apps and running them from a Windows terminal service with Citrix Metaframe installed? Or would it be cheaper to by VMWare licenses for those users who absolutely have to run some esoteric Windows app.

    When the alternatives have been considered, propose a pilot targetting a limited group of users to see whether the can continue their normal work routine on the new platform.

    These are all starting points. The tough one is what to do about apps that only exist on Windows and are critical to the job the person is doing.

    -David
  • Linux can be made a lot friendlier just by configuring the desktop for really easy use.

    This is a small change to the way KDE and Gnome look, but I think it's an important change: the typical Gnome taskbar along the bottom is three times as big as Windows users are used to, and is cluttered with a bunch of useless toys. Get rid of everything except the buttons that indicate which programs are running, and of course the button that users think of as the "start" button.

    The default menus in most distros are also way too extensive. They tend to have the same thing several times in several places. Pick the dozon or so programs your users generally need and put them in the main "start" menu. Hide the rest in a single "advanced" menu, or even get rid of the menu items altogether.

    Put icons for the most important programs right on the desktop: Spreadsheet, Word Processor (not "Text Document" like Open Office says), etc.

    By default, don't allow multiple desktops. Users who are advanced enough to understand the concept will know to ask you for it.

    Finally, sit and watch users play with the system. Note any place that they frown and get confused. Don't believe self-deprecatory excuses that they just don't know what they're doing and they're sure the system is fine: if they don't know how to do something it's the systems' fault for not being easy enough.

  • by mblase (200735) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:53PM (#3538982)
    Demonstrate that you can play those two essentials on Linux just as well as on Windows, and you'll have no problems from there on out.
  • Windows=Linux (Score:3, Informative)

    by Sean Clifford (322444) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:54PM (#3538988) Journal
    Each shop is unique, so there's no boilerplate migration plan. But here's my two cents:

    I'm slowly migrating to Linux at my company. So far it's going pretty well. We had to add an extra box to everyone's desk in the call center due to [Non-Disclosure Agreement], so I spent $1000 for some old P233MMX w/64MB RAM, slapped Linux on them, and the users went to town.

    After a couple of months with Linux in production I have to say that it's going well. Help desk calls are waaaaay down and users are happy. I've said this before, but here goes: users don't remember the last time they rebooted the Linux box, but sure remember the last time they rebooted Windows.

    We're replacing Windows boxes right now by attrition, but plan to replace them all by the end of the year - OS, not hardware.

    Since Office runs on Linux now it's at least theoretically possible to standardize on Open Office or something internally and have a single box with a single MS Office license converting both incoming and outgoing attachments to and from MS office format. When an open-source conversion utility comes out, you'll probably be able to abandon MS Office altogether but keep compatability with others.

    Be aware that Citrix ain't really that cheap a solution. You'll pay through the nose for licenses (application licenses for each connectd user, terminal server client access licenses for each connection, citrix licenses for each user, and connection licenses for each computer). You have to get licenses for client machines (unless they're Windows 2k or XP which have their own) that connect to a Citrix server, which defeats the financial purpose of replacing Windows with Linux.

  • by kipple (244681) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:58PM (#3539026) Homepage Journal
    you can check here [robval.com] an interesting review between Microsoft and generic Open Source software in a business environment.
    Here is a quote:

    This review focused on Red Hat Linux 7.1 from a business user's view and attempted to answer my client's question "Can Linux be used as a replacement for Windows 2000". After an intensive hands-on Linux project lasting several months, I was able to provide my client with a pertinent answer to this question.

    Based on a solid Linux business plan, my client decided that Linux was a good investment for most of the company's employees, but will retain a few key Windows computers in the office for specific applications. Connecting Linux and Windows computers on the same network, and sharing Office 97/2000 files between the different OSs, is easy and works well, thanks to Red Hat Linux and Star Office. The primary reason for this decision was a $10,000 saving on his IT budget! For support reasons, he decided to use a local Linux supplier for installation and configuration work. View the Summary and the Details.

    For other business users, here is my advice:

    * For whatever reason, if you want to get started with Linux, or implement an office network of Linux and Windows clients, Red Hat Linux 7.1 is very much the way to go. Red Hat Linux 7.1 can be used as an alternative to Windows 2000! You will be stunned by the bang for the buck that Linux bundled free "open source" software offers. Red Hat Linux is a complete server (LAN, Web, SQL) and offers excellent desktop applications for corporate users. Each business user will need to look at the benefits of using Linux (no software licensing fees, fewer hardware upgrades, many good applications) and the costs (installation, configuration, upgrades, training, support). If the benefits outweigh the costs, then you have an affordable viable desktop alternative to Windows.

    *Red Hat Linux 7.1 is a great package: it provides a smooth installation, has many good applications and is an especially attractive option for small to medium-size offices. However, many business users will want to purchase a computer with Linux pre-installed, or at least use a Linux support professional for post-installation configurations, maintenance and upgrades, just as you currently do for Windows.

    Still, in my opinion, the great majority of end-users is still too dumb and this will cause you greater troubles, at least with all the time you will waste trying to explain'em that No, You Can'T Have A Dancing Lady On Your Desktop, And Even If You Were In A Windows Environment You Just Cannot Install It And Later Complain Because You Got a Virus!

    However, have fun.
  • by GroundBounce (20126) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:03PM (#3539052)
    I work for a medium sized (~40) company and we are no longer MS dominated.

    Disclosure: we are an engineering company, so we have been doing some things on UNIX for a long time.

    Having said that, our current mix is around 85% non-MS and 15% MS. For our engineering tasks, we use software that never did come from MS (although it was supported on the Windows platform, even though we never used it on Windows). For most of our "office" tasks, we use StarOffice 5.2 and will be moving to 6.0. All of this is now running on Linux based PCs.

    The 15% MS portion is mainly for certain cases where we must use the same tool as our customer, and the customer want's to use MS tools (mostly spec. and project management related).

    All-in-all, it works pretty well, and it definitely shaves $$ off your overhead costs, not to mention reduced audit worries.
  • by Sloppy (14984) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:12PM (#3539114) Homepage Journal

    How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options.

    A lot of it just comes down to file formats. If you can't switch now, then at least you can make it easier to switch later: have your users start saving their stuff to standardized formats instead of closed proprietary lock-in formats. Yes, OpenOffice can read MS Word files, but just about everything can read RTF, and RTF has all the functionality needed, 99% (subjective) of the time.

    Once you get out of needing dead-end tools, you'll be in a better position to be able to use whatever you want to.

    Start doing it now, even if you don't ever intend to break free of MS. Standard files might even be more compatable with future MS products than today's lock-in formats will be.

  • by codepunk (167897) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:13PM (#3539121)
    First of all lay down your architecture. In our shop we started by loading a huge compaq server with memory. We went to a local used pc company and bought a whole bunch of used p350 machines at 100 dollars a piece. We loaded redhat 7.2 on the big server along with open office, mozilla and some other productivity apps. We turned on GDM on the big server to dish out x displays. Next we built a kickstart install to do the workstations. The kickstart does a standard minimal linux load with x and at the end of the install modifys the inittab to query the server for a display. These machines do nothing but X display so we wanted to capture the free cycles to run computatational fluid dynamics applications on. So we add the mosix kernel at the end of the kick start and boot the now running workstation. Another way to accomplish this is by using LTSP but it is more trouble than it is worth in my opinion. It is far easier to just load linux on the local disk. We totally control the desktop on each machine right down to the application icons...The moral of the story is "we are happier than pigs in shit with the outcome" and I have never had to show a single user how to use the kde desktop.
  • by bluGill (862) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:20PM (#3539179)

    I would install as many alternatives as you can, and make them the default. Open a doc in staroffice, and things should work. You can get at word, but not without going through a wrapper that requires you to email what staroffice cannot do that you need. Users will try to use staroffice where they can, where it fails they will tell you what doesn't work.

    Or to save even more money, just start migrating people to linux/kde/koffice, after verifying that their applications will work.

    Remember, you are a company, you have work to get done. Find out what tasks you really need to do, and then find a linux program to do it. For those who only use a few features of Word this is easy, koffice is there already. For those who need something complex, you might need wine, or devolpe your own solution.

    Do not forget to do some practice runs. Take your backups, restore them to a equivelent systems, and convert that system to linux with the old data, and run some fake transactions. (be careful not to get this data into the real world). And don't convert anyone before a major deadline. Accounting gets converted right after payday, and nowhere near april 15th!

    You don't have a hurry now, if the BSA does come knocking, or Microsoft does start demanding unreasonable fees, you have a plan in place to convert quickly, otherwise just convert as an open source alteranative is just as good as the windows equivelent. (Note, I said just as good for your pruposes, and Not as good. If you never use some feature, then there is no reason to wait for it)

  • two cents (Score:3, Informative)

    by digitalhermit (113459) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:23PM (#3539208) Homepage
    Here are a few things that I've used to eliminate MS products on my networks:

    For word processing I like AbiWord. The 1.0.1 version has just been released and it works quite well. It doesn't have *every* feature of word, no sane program would, but it does have all the features needed for general word processing.

    I don't have much use for spreadsheets, but Gnumeric and kspread have worked fine for me. People have also mentioned that OpenOffice/StarOffice has a good spreadsheet.

    For reading email there's Evolution, Netscape or Mozilla Messenger, and various others.

    For database, use MySQL or PostgreSQL as the backend instead of access. Use HTML as a frontend so you can access it from any system, even Windows.

    For webmail, take a look at squirrelmail. There are many other imap/pop/mtas that you can choose from to create your mail server. Of course, you'll replace IIS with Apache :)

    For viruses you'll need to use the Unix honor system. su to root, choose a file at random then delete it, then email everyone in your address book with similar instructions. To mimic the crashes you can try turning off the power when you're in the middle of something very important.
  • by gonerill (139660) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:41PM (#3539370) Homepage
    I had to work for 5 years before I got an office with windows. No way am I going back.
  • by Codifex Maximus (639) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:43PM (#3539383) Homepage

    Well, you must have realistic goals like: Reduce software costs, provide a stable environment, reduce support costs etc...

    If you want to use Linux as the OS, you may get some opposition from the Windows fans. So, migrate using a gradual approach.

    • Begin by replacing the expensive Office Software on Windows with a cheaper yet functional alternative like maybe Sun's Star Office 6.
    • Analyse the mail situation... are they using all the functions of Outlook (are they even *using* Outlook?) Replace with a reliable alternative like maybe Netscape 6.2.x mail.
    • While yer at it, replace the use of Internet Explorer with Netscape 6.2.x and encourage the use of Netscape Mail and the Address book functionality included. Use the argument that when Internet Explorer crashes, it can bring the whole operating system down.
    • Install Sun Java on the user's machines and encourage the use and development of Java programs for the company's business.
    • Begin replacing Window's Servers with Linux/Unix servers on the backend and migrate to a crossplatform database like maybe MySQL or PostGreSQL or even Oracle or DB/2 for Unix. Replace Exchange with Sendmail or something and use BIND and other UNIX style server software. Justify with stability and lower price for most items.

    After you do all these things... the stability and usability of the user and server software should be evident and the switch to Linux as the OS should be fairly painless as there are Linux equivalents to the programs they've been running on the old Windows installations. You may find you have made some Linux fans in the office too!

  • by Lumpy (12016) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:47PM (#3539417) Homepage
    I changed one full department and may spread the change further by using the BSA's scare tactics and their current advertising campain. My boss heard one of their ad's that say "We'll fine you 100,000 dollars per incident, which can add up to millions!" and asked if we are compliant.... I honestly answered, that if a sane person did the audit, yes. but by BSA standards... no, and if we are ever audited they will leave with a fine on us even if we were 100% perfect... it's just like OSHA, they never leave without issuing a violation. I also informed him that cince the employees are allowed to take their laptops home there can be upwards of 20 violations per computer as we have no control over what the employees do at home or outside the building... I can wipe all the laptops, but then the salespeople will whine again..

    he then asked me if there was another solution, and I wipped out my Redhat 7.3 laptop with open office..

    Guess what... we're gonna switch to NON-MS.. all thanks to the BSA.

    so basically... Use Microsoft's and the BSA's tactics to your advantage... push the fear,loathing and threats they are pushing... keep mentioning the 100,000 dollar fine PER incident. that the companies sensitive data will be accessable by strangers during the BSA visit, and the business disruption and public notification by the BSA that XYZ company STEALS.

    works great..... Thanks Microsoft and the BSA for the BEST tools a Linux Advocate could ever want.
  • by DrJohnEvans (553988) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:50PM (#3539440) Homepage
    We Have The Way In [wehavethewayin.com], in the GNU/Linux section [wehavethewayin.com], features a link to a 12-step program for a Microsoft-free shop [cio.com], by Scott Berinato, from the January 1 2002 issue of CIO Magazine [cio.com].

    It's a very thorough overview of all the major steps (technical, mental, emotional, you name it) that an office must pass through in order to successfully dump Microsoft. It'll be very helpful to your cause.

  • by Rocketboy (32971) on Friday May 17 2002, @03:38PM (#3539760)
    We have 45 users, most local but three remotes in other states. We recently took a look at Microsoft's pricing, calculated our costs over the next three years, and ended up converting to Lotus SmartSuite. If the current StarOffice had been ready in time, it would have been a strong candidate, too. Keys to the process:

    - Bring the users into the decision, not only what software to use but why.
    - 3rd party training for software other than MS Office is available, even if not listed in their course lists. Ask. Our local Productivity Point has personnel qualified to teach the Lotus software and has complete course materials, they just don't list it in their offerings because there's so little demand. They were delighted to teach the courses for our users, at very reasonable cost.
    - Having a backup process leads to user comfort. We'll still have four people with MS Office on their PCs, mostly administrative assistants and a lead customer service person. Their primary purpose is to provide access to documents which don't get converted by the time we remove Office from everyone else's PCs and to convert documents from outside the company which for one reason or another won't convert to Lotus cleanly using the Lotus software. This is a real benefit to our users and we wouldn't have gotten their buy-in without being able to assure them that we weren't abandoning their old documents.
    - Don't rush the process. We started out by giving our users 60 days to convert their old documents to Lotus. We'll end up giving them an additional 30 days on a case-by-case basis. We installed Lotus on user's PCs in addition to MS Office so they could get used to the new software gradually. Once a user has been to training we made it clear that all new documents were expected to be in Lotus format. They have both the incentive and the training to make the change and it is working out very well. On the other hand, there has to be a due date or nothing will get done!

    Our users initially resisted changing and why not? Learning new software, even as simple a change as from MS Word to Lotus Word Pro, is intimidating to someone who views computers as a tool rather than a way of life. We overcame their resistance by putting the facts before them: the lifecycle cost of MS Office over the next three years vs. the lifecycle costs (including training!) of switching to Lotus, Corel, etc. The savings were really very dramatic, particularly for a company like us which tends to keep using old software for much longer than the vendor would really like. Since we're a pretty open company anyway and take pains to not only present financial information to everyone but teach them how to interpret it as well, this had an impact. When you put it like, "we can spend the money on MS Office software and upgrade desktop PCs every five years, or switch to an alternative and keep to our three-year cycle", everyone had the same answer. They *like* getting new PCs every three years. The admin assistants *like* using shiny new Thinkpads which they can take to meetings and access information or take minutes with wireless connections to the LAN, etc. All of the productivity and convenience improvements we've made over the past five years took capital to implement, capital which in no small part would have gone into simply maintaining the software they already had. They didn't want to do that.

    Once the decision was made we immediately chose a dozen key users and sent them off to a special Lotus SmartSuite class we had developed with our local Productivity Point franchise. A combination of the Introductory and Intermediate classes, it assumed that everyone knew how to use a mouse, access pop-up menus, etc. and concentrated on the differences between MS Word and Lotus WordPro, Excel vs. 1-2-3, and Powerpoint vs. Harvard Graphics. The class lasted three days and we had a very enthusiastic (and very relieved!) team when they got back, confident that they knew what they were doing and how to do it. They've been evangelists to the rest of the organization to the point where people were competing to get into the next class! A month into the process, people were competing to see who could be more 'MS Office free' and new documents were all being generated using the Lotus software. That was a month before the deadline! Now when someone from outside the company sends us a Word document (non of which, by the way, we've had the least trouble converting to Lotus,) people grumble about how 'backward' other companies are. Those who have regular contact with MS Office users outside the company are now evangelizing them and rumor has it that at least a couple of our business partners, faced with the same costs we were facing, are considering the same move away from MS Office.

    The key is not that the Lotus software is so good but rather that it is good enough and *much* less expensive (and a key to that is that we buy IBM notebooks and desktop PCs, mostly because of their terrific technical support, and SmartSuite comes free with them. A real savings, that!)

    Difficulties in our project:
    - Some MS Office documents do not convert very well to Lotus. Most Word and Excel documents do (in the case of Excel, usually needing at least some clean-up by hand,) and Powerpoint presentations don't convert nicely at all. Don't even think about converting MS Access to Approach (but then, think about it: do you really trust anything more complex than a grocery list to Access? If its really important, shouldn't it have a real database behind it?)
    - Some people just don't like change. We've got a couple. Peer pressure works most of the time but we have one granite boulder who not only isn't going to change, is senior enough that it would take tippy-top management ordering him to before he would, and then he'd just sabotage it ("See? Told you so!") Not a real problem, though: he doesn't really use the computer for anything other than e-mail, anyway (and half the time he dictates replies to e-mail to his admin assistant.) His assistant is very happy with Lotus and buffers between him and the rest of the company, so it works out.

    Good luck!

  • Why do anything? (Score:4, Informative)

    by harlows_monkeys (106428) on Friday May 17 2002, @04:01PM (#3539892) Homepage
    Basically, the questioner is treating this as a choice between two alternatives:
    1. Upgrade to new versions of Windows stuff
    2. Migrate to something else, like Linux

    What about the option no one seems to consider? Stick with what you have right now. It works today...it will still work tomorrow. Get out of the "gotta have the latest" mindset.

    For most of what business users do, using software that is a year or two or five old is just fine.

    • by mrm677 (456727) on Friday May 17 2002, @01:26PM (#3538775)
      Actually, specialized apps are often developed by small companies who don't use the newest wizbang API's that trouble Wine. I've got several specialized apps running on Wine that run perfectly. Sure, the file open/save dialogs look like the ones on original Win95 but who cares if the app solves the problem at hand.

    • Before you go all crazy, at least try a Mac running OS X, first. If you like it enough, you'll have the best of both worlds: Soft chewy desktop supported by a name-brand computer maker, with a crunchy Unix backbone.

      You may never have considered a Mac before, but you might like it now--it's worth at least a look.
    • by pubjames (468013) on Friday May 17 2002, @02:16PM (#3539142)
      I just know this will get modded down to minus 1000, but I can't resist:

      For over a year or so I'm thinking of moving from Linux to windows. Why? Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.


      For the last couple of months I've noticed an increasing amount of posts on Slashdot from people subtly promoting Microsoft and putting down Linux. They say just the right things to make sure their posts don't get modded down, but essentially try to persuade people to think the types of things Microsoft wants them to think.

      Here's a very interesting article [guardian.co.uk] from the UK Guardian about corporations using fake people on newsgroups and email forums to rubbish their opponents. They use companies who promise to be very discrete and do it in such a way that it is very difficult to link the individuals back to the company concerned. The article cites the case of this type of tactics being used by Monsanto. Is it really so difficult to believe that Microsoft might pay one of these companies to post anti-Linux comments on sites like Slashdot? Read the article.
    • I run a mixed shop - Windows at work, Windows and Linux at home. I've ported numerous apps from Linux to Windows, and it's usually not a problem. Of course, I wrote them with an awareness that I would want to port them to Windows, so I didn't use UNIX-only APIs. In fact, I'm using Java right now to develop truly cross-platform apps, and it works surprisingly well.

      Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.

      This is only your personal preference. I use both KDE and windows daily, and I prefer having the multiple desktops and clean GUI of KDE. Because I know how to use Linux (translate: know what I want to do), I find the KDE interface easier to use. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing - how many Windows boxes have active backgrounds?

      I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.

      The main problem I've found with Linux is that it is a chore to configure, but once you've got it configured correctly, nothing breaks. Contrast this with Windows, where botched application installation can break pieces throughout the entire system. Correcting a bad install in Linux may involve little more than editing a text file; in Windows, you may have to reinstall the OS, reregister with Microsoft, and reinstall every application that you use. I've spent countless hours doing this, and even though I hate vi and editing text files, I have to admit that I prefer the Linux/UNIX method of editing a few lines to the 8+ hour complete system reinstalls I have to do with Windows.

      Someone once said there's no such thing as a free lunch. With Linux, it's reliable, and it's free, but if you want to play movies, you may have to spend a substantial amount of time downloading and configuring the application, and then reading the documentation, fixing bugs, and recompiling. With Windows, you pay for a system which basically takes all of these things out of your way, but at great risk; if the software is buggy, or the install fails, it could break the entire system. There is simply no recourse for a botched install - if you're lucky, you might get away with reinstalling only the application(s) affected. If not, you could end up reinstalling the entire OS.

      And I haven't even begun to talk about virus/security issues. If you value your data, Linux might be your only option (either that or a constant backup plan...)

      When one thinks about the system as a whole, Windows is only suitable for people who want to use the PC as an entertainment device - people who rely on the integrity of their data and the security of their computer systems should not run Windows. Use Windows for games - use Linux for serious computing.