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Red Hat puts out Legislation Alert on the SSSCA
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Oct 10, 2001 10:02 AM
from the get-it-while-you-still-can dept.
from the get-it-while-you-still-can dept.
the_2nd_coming writes "Red Hat has announced a legislation alert for the SSSCA. They are collecting comments to hand to lawmakers. Get those comments in while you can, but make sure you give them some thought."
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Get behind this! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Get behind this! (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes there are good sides to it
This is a bad statment. Part of Politics is the art compromise and by giving him this much you are telling him he is on the right track. Remember most of these guys have people filter thier mail for them and sum up issues as "Number For and Number Against" and a statment like this one could be taken as a "Number For". When writting your letters, give them no room for compromise, no room to "Fix" the bill. Tell them the current copyright laws are enough, this bill will only gut Fair Use and should be completely thrown away.
Parent
Re:Get behind this! (Score:4, Informative)
Not even remotely true. First off, try the very second paragraph:
In addition, this bill only applies when private sector representatives have achieved consensus on a security standard for a particular technology. Can you imagine that the Internet standard bodies would create standards that ban all the previous standards on which the Internet is founded and by which it runs?
It's not a good bill, but let's not lie about what it actually is. Sheesh. I mean, the first time this bill was mentioned here, some geek at a Linux zine was claiming it banned all open source software.
Tim
Parent
Re:Get behind this! (Score:2)
yes it will. Open source software can not be controlled the way a closed source programs can be. it will be seen as a circumvention tool and be outlawed implicitly by some crafty federal district attorney who convinces some judge.
Re:Get behind this! (Score:2)
Protocols are not devices; it's okay to outlaw telnet and smtp on new hardware?
Videotapes are digital? (Score:4, Insightful)
Essentially, all devices and software that fall into this vague definition of digital interactive technology will have to include encryption so it can't be copied. This could include VCR tapes, compact discs, and the devices that run them, as well as computers and open source software.
Surprises me. This is one of the most heavy-handed pieces of legislation I've seen. I can understand the digital aspect of it, but even encrypting videotapes, the last bastion of small-scale piracy? I'm really not for piracy, but I thought the videotape issue fell under "don't sweat the small stuff".
Gotta give credit for the thoroughness of the proposed legislation, though.
Justification for Legislation? (Score:4, Interesting)
Does anyone know if these international treaties proposed anything like the restrictions called for in the SSSCA?
U.S. legislation would outlaw open source software (Score:5, Insightful)
The amazing thing to me is that Senate will be openly considering legislation to put a committee of corporations in charge of deciding which hardware and OS configurations will be legal and illegal. Even if the committee somehow miraculously doesn't ban Open Source operating systems, the thought that they might be handed the power of life and death over operating systems is startling.
I think it's wildly unrealistic to assume SSSCA won't pass just because it's obviously crazy legislation. There are a lot of crazy laws on the books, and most geeks didn't take DMCA very seriously either until Dmitry got busted. Don't be complacent.
Re:U.S. legislation would outlaw open source softw (Score:3, Insightful)
This, if it happens, will be a step FAR too far. While we can't trust the legislators to get this right because they simply dont understand it, we sure as hell can't trust companies with it.
Every Company Rule #1 Exploit each and every opportunity presented to you to make money.
Every Company Rule #2 see Rule 1
Of course, if it was left to
Shh! Don't tell them we can modify open software! (Score:4, Funny)
#IFDEF INANE_COPY_PROTECTION
#include RIAA_Headers.h)
#ENDIF
And in the documentation:
b) Please do not define INANE_COPY_PROTECTION. It is very bad.
Parent
Impact of law on non US citizens (Score:3, Interesting)
Can someone please enlighten me as to what this law and others like it would mean for me in the Netherlands?
I would be happy to join your (and mine btw) cause but since i am not represented in the US in any way i can't do alot of things i'm afraid.
The US will be the Tech Getto of the world if... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The US will be the Tech Getto of the world if.. (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe not....
Dear Senator Fritz Hollings
I request that you please, please sign the SSSCA in it's current form so Canada can become the new tech capital of the world.
I will only be happy when Santa Clara is a landfill and Yahoo.com comes up in French. The level of cushy tech jobs the US has simply isn't fair and there is no logical reason that South Carolinans would do anything to support the interweb underground porn thingy.
I'm sure many South Carolinans feel the same as I do about those NY consultant dweebs with their fancy laptop thingies. Why is the Interweb and three thousand dollar cup holders such a big deal anyway. We want fifty thousand dollar secratary jobs and Italian sports cars for our wonderful non-hoser computer specialists.
Thank you you for giving us our chance, and give our thanks to Hollywood to.
iplayfast
A thankful Canadan.
Don't fall for the illusion of doing something. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Don't fall for the illusion of doing something. (Score:2)
SSSCA Loophole (Score:4, Interesting)
The big problem with the SSSCA is that newer faster computers will have to have built in security against copyright infringement, and it is illegal to break that security. It is also illegal to remove security stuffs from a copyrighted file, like one of those secure windows ones. What do we do about this? We write a java program that goes into your system and cracks all the security. Then we have it run off an obscure web server in another country. Visit website, java runs. You didn't do it. You thought the site was something else. It doesn't say anything about files that originally had no security. The SSSCA is all about making new stuff illegal, not already existing stuff. So you change the dates on all your files.
The real reason the government gets away with stuff like this is because we
Yeah so buy up a bunch of hardware and download software now, that way it wont be illegal.
A talking point (Score:2)
The project was written off as a dead loss after spending something like 5 years and $9B (Maybe someone can supply the exact figures; too many zeros makes me dizzy...)
Do they think that they can do any better designing OS APIs and security systems?
- SWM
A new T-shirt ? (Score:2)
Will the hottest T-shirt at thinkgeek.com [thinkgeek.com] in 2003 be "Legalize Linux" ?
The Impact On The American Economy (Score:4, Insightful)
Open source software is run on a great deal of the smaller and even the larger buisnesses in this nation. It is generally more stable, and easier to apply. Larger companys favor the *nix frame, as they are often familar with it, so no further training is needed in many cases. For smaller company, the thousand dollar plus (per machine) liscencing fees for other software can be overwhelming.
Many buisnesses will die, if unable to use this free or low cost software.
And there are other implications to this LAW.
Implications that, when I gave copys of the law to my sociolgy class, bursts of laughter were heard to erupt.
And the basis of the laws....
Section 109, Definitions, defines an 'Interactive Computer Service' Under a law passed in 1934!
And section 104 is laughable as well. 'Antitrust Exemption?'
Although there is minor solace, even if this law was passed. It's unconsititutional.
The fourth Ammendment protects against Search And Seizure without reasonable cause. To enact the use of software which would monitor my activitys is illegal, according to rulings which deem that any method of surveillance (such as thermal imaging) that could find information that could not be otherwise obtained warrantless, is invalid.
You could not otherwise find this information without physichal acsess to my computer.
Therefore, it is in violation of the fourth ammendment.
Re:The Impact On The American Economy (Score:2)
<sarcasm>We all know that technology faces us with greater challenges to law enforcement, so we must come up with better, more intrusive, errr, more focused laws to combat these new forms of "terrorism". In fact, if you violate a clause of a software license, you are comitting economic terrorism against its owners and can face life in prison!</sarcasm>
What if the FBI decides that "pervasive surveillance warrants" are a necessity and each and every Compaq that hits the shelves has a warrant attached to it? Sheesh.
The scary thing is I can see Hollings, et. al making political hay off such statements
Let Freedom Ring (Score:2, Interesting)
Think about the original New England Colonists -- they didn't want to destroy England or infringe on England's ability to do business or impose any beliefs or behaviors on England. The result of their cooperation and independence is the greatest country on the face of the Earth -- and the most vital democracy in the history of human civilization. Just think -- maybe Open Source software can be a new chapter in the continuation of the unfolding story of democracy that is the United States of America.
Re:Let Freedom Ring (Score:2)
What makes you think this will do that? I have yet to see any plausible scenario for a broad ban on open source, which would be a prima facie violation of the First Amendment.
You might wind up having to use a closed-source program for multimedia playback at worst. Maybe that's bad, but if so, focus on that, not on grandiose fantasies about shadowy agencies making it illegal to write and give away any and all software. Absurd claims about standards bodies making all open source software illegal are not worth the unsecured bits they're magnetized on.
I think people have a hard time acknowledging that what they're really having a problem with is laws against software specifically designed to crack security (e.g., DeCSS, Sklyarov) or violate copyright (e.g., Napster). That's not as sexy a cause as grand and ambiguous claims about freedom in the abstract. It may be a just cause, but let's call it what it is.
Tim
Re:Let Freedom Ring (Score:2)
No, it wouldn't. Have you read it?
Tim (patience running thin)
Re:Let Freedom Ring (Score:2)
What RedHat has that we don't (Score:3, Interesting)
I wasn't going to comment but... (Score:5, Insightful)
The bill is being motivated by motion picture and television studios that seek to end piracy of their movies and other forms of entertainment. Curiously, these studios also happen to be among Hollings' top campaign contributors, as noted by Newsforge reporter Dan Berkes.
(Emphasis mine)
"Curiously" is an understatement. Apparently in America you can buy anything.
On a related note, does anyone find it strange the commiting a crime against a corporation is worse that a crime against another individual?
Violate the DMCA - 25 Years w/o parole
Kill someone - 20 Years, parole after 6-8
You can buy anything? (Score:2, Funny)
(attr. G. W. Bush)
Not one instance... (Score:2)
This is the flavor we get from the small-government, get-the-Fed-out conservatives. A boycott of any devices/systems implementing any aspect of such a system is a moral imperative.
Why would anyone think this is a good idea? (Score:5, Interesting)
And some of the problems are:
So why would someone support this?
Am I missing something here, or could this show us what our lawmakers really think of the people they represent (assuming that they actually record the votes this time...)? We've seen much of this before, but this time they aren't even trying to make it look good.
You would be supprised at what people think. (Score:3, Informative)
Try to keep the message simple. The Free Software Foundation [fsf.org] still has the best philosophy pages and it's good to memorize the fundamental software freedoms [fsf.org], but don't expect most people to really care. This is a free speach issue and people do understand that. Tell them that it is fundamentally UnAmerican to limit what people do with their own property in their own homes, and that such arbitrary extention of copyright franchises will bite them in the ass later.
Someone pinch me.
Re:You would be supprised at what people think. (Score:3, Informative)
Unfortunately, laws of this type are nothing new. The earliest law limiting the use of electronic equipment in private that I am aware of dates back to 1934. In this case, the law states that "no one may receive, or assist in receiving, any radio communication to which they are not entitled and use that information for their own benefit," and also outlawed "the manufacture, assembly, possession, and sale of any device primarily useful for the surreptitious interception of such radio transmissions." Sound familiar?
It isn't too big a jump from limiting the private use of radio signals broadcasted in the clear to limiting the private use of locally stored data (any "collateral damage" like the death of free software is just the price for worry-free "copyright protection," or at least that's what the masses will be told). The descrambling of scrambled cable television stations is widely accepted as a criminal act, so that too lends itself to extension to data - you are given the content in a very specific form and are not allowed to do anything that would allow you to gain additional benefit from it.
The only difference in these cases is that you pay for most of the content that would be limited by the SSSCA (in the other cases, the law limits what people who don't pay for the content can do with it), but with SSSCA "protected" content, you aren't paying for the right to use it, you're paying to have the content providers tell you how to use it. You pay for cable, but only the channels the cable company wants you to see for the amount you pay; you pay for a DVD, but only for the use of it on an authorized player and without the ability to make direct digital audio clips or screen captures. History has shown that people will allow the government to tell them how they can use someone else's content, even in their own homes. The purpose of our representative government is to prevent the uninformed masses from making stupid decisions, so the problem here isn't with the people, but instead with the motivations of elected representatives.
Re:Why would anyone think this is a good idea? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Lawmakers represent those interests which supply the greatest campain funding."
Sorry, but despite what they would have you think, they DO NOT represent YOU, or ME, or any other member of the "public"... unless of course they have very large wallets.
Yesterday's "interview" with Jamie Love [slashdot.org], he stated the problem very suscinctly...
The draft legislation has is authored by Senator Hollings (D-SC). As this newsforge.com article [newsforge.com] points out...
Sucks, huh? Well whip out the checkbook and fork over a few hundred grand and maybe "our" side of things can be represented too...
-S
Parent
the truth shall set you free (Score:3, Interesting)
Mininfo, second in importance only to Minilove.
Politics for Sale - Cheaper in SC? (Score:2)
Curious though, that they choose a South Carolina senator to sponsor it for them.
Which makes me wonder, is it just that Hollings was an easy buy or cheaper due to the lower standard of living in SC?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Re:Politics for Sale - Cheaper in SC? (Score:4, Insightful)
According to a poll that a Poli Sci proffessor gave me in college, most South Carolinians cannot name their junior Senator. Strom Thurmond is much more well known, and because of this Fritz Hollings tends to be able to do just about anything he wants without fear of retaliation from the voters. Senator Thurmond is a much more public figure and therefore draws all of the attention away from Senator Hollings. Many organizations target Hollings to support their bills because of this fact, and because of the numerous positions that he holds in the Senate:
He is up for re-election in 2004, and if I'm still in this state then he will certainly not have my support.
Parent
It's the market, stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
Contact your senators... (Score:2, Informative)
KidA
What I did: (Score:2)
I figure soften 'em up with the heavy artilery right away.
Soko
Hollings: who is his master?!? (Score:2)
What does matter is that these groups made HUGE soft money contributions to BOTH sides in the last election. These corporate companies (like Microsoft and entrainment companies) are using the soft money system to rule the country. This is the root of these outrageous bills, and they will continue until the corporate rule of America is fixed.
We don't only need to educate about the moral outrages of this current bill, we have to fight the soft money structure. We need to get soft money banned. People complain this restricts speech, but this structure is actually HINDERING speech because the small guy is getting drowned out; getting rid of soft money actually PROTECTS free speech (and free speech should be based on the individual, not the corp.) We need Campaign finance reform, and we need it BADLY.
Excellent. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Thank you, RedHat".
Think back to a not so far era with MS wielding the DMCA over
Some of the trade rags were quoted as saying "Slashdot is the only (institution) one so far to have the cajones to say 'Go ahead, sue, we'll defend that suit'".
Well, RedHat is stepping up to the plate...hot damn. "We the people" need this because the lawmakers and representatives of the people are not listening to us, but to corporations.
If I am not mistaken, RedHat is a corporation, and can probably use the "We are the voice of reason" in an insane world (or something like that).
Really, I'm not joking... Think about all the "innovators, heretics, and *individual* the quintessential Great Minds" of our time.
The ones that went against the grain, conventions, accepted beliefs, morals of thier peers (and monarchs/rulers)...as a corporation...this is what RedHat is doing.
Freakin' A.
Moose.
I Don't Understand It, but I Want It to be the Law (Score:3, Insightful)
Talking points (Score:3, Insightful)
The Soviet Union used to post guards at all copying machines, to make sure that its citizens did not copy anything that the Communisty party did not approve of.
The U.S. government now proposes to install software in all computers, to make sure that its citizens do not make any copies that large corporations do not approve of.
I hope this happens. (Score:4, Insightful)
Because as others have pointed out this is *too damn* far. This is what we need to get the general populace involved. You try telling finicky Americans that they no longer have any choices. Hell it doesn't matter if that is already true, but once you tell them that to their face things will change. Sometimes things have to go way too far before enough people will stand up to it. The general populace of any nation is much like a spring. You can push it in for a long time but only to a certain point... and after you get tired of pushing they are going to push back hard.
Let this pass.
Then I will have no problems convincing friends or family why Microsoft/RIAA and their ilk are bad news in the long run. And then? Then I will be standing there with open arms to all those who want choice and won't take it anymore.
Re:I hope this happens. (Score:3, Interesting)
THis will only effect only linux/freebsd geeks and even regular ms programers will not notice anything different. Perhaps just higher windows prices after linux is destroyed.
We must fight it. We are a small minority and the media is in favor of this law so our voices will never be heard to the general public. We must be involved politically then.
You don't need elaborate arguments or fancy logic (Score:3, Insightful)
Dear Congressman:
I am a one issue voter. I don't care about anything else. If you vote for or support this bill in any way, I will (1) vote against you, (2) give $xxx to your opponent, and (3) urge all my friends to vote against you.
Yours,
vinyl1
Here is what I sent (Score:4, Insightful)
1) The bill contains Orwellian Newspeak. It keeps talking about "security"
when nothing in the bill is even *related* to security. I believe this
wording exists as an attempt to deceive both
a) representatives/senators who will be voting on it
b) the people of the United States
In the wake of the recent terrorism, mislabelling things as being for
"security" to play on people's fears, is particular dishonest and
reprehensible.
Even if this bill is passed (which would be bad), the wording should be
corrected to refer to its actual intent: restricting people's access to
things they themselves own. Euphemize it if you must, but calling it
"security" is going way too far.
2) 104(b), where congress creates a new power and then hands control of
the details over to "representatives of interactive digital device
manufacturers and representatives of copyright owners" is totally
unacceptable. Those so-called representatives (who will likely
represent only a handful of companies and ignore the remaining 99.9%
of copyright holders) are not accountable to voters. YOU are. You
cannot hand over power without responsibility; that leads to tyranny.
3) More semi-Newspeak: Remove the word "interactive" from the the term
"interactive digital device", since the term's definition doesn't make
any reference to interactivity. Casual readers of the bill may get
the impression that it's less restrictive than it really is, unless they
scrutize the definitions section.
4) This bill causes acts that are currently lawful, to become unlawful.
Don't you have anything better to do than take people who are doing
nothing wrong, and turn them into criminals? If you are thinking about
voting for this, ask yourself three questions:
1) What percentage of my constituents want this to become law?
2) Am I protecting my consituents from tyranny, crime, etc?
3) Are there any reasons FOR voting for this?
Fair Use has been attacked too much already, and this just makes it
worse. Please work on repealing or otherwise correcting Title 17
Section 1201 to make the situation better, instead of making things worse.
5) This bill serves no purpose for anyone, including the people who are
purchasing it. Ostensibly, the bill's purpose is to protect copyright.
But copyright law already exists, and copyright holders already have means
to remedy violations. Thus, they are gaining no additional USEFUL rights
from this bill. Piling redundant laws upon one another is a Bad Thing.
6) This bill imposes heavy burdens upon developers, for no gain. That
is a destructive waste of resources. Please end government-mandated waste
and government suppression of industry and development.
7) Certification creates monopolies. This is also anti-industry.
Cogent Argument Collection Needed (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd really appreciate a web site full of reasonable comments and snippets that I could pick from to compose a reasoned letter to my legislators.
It would help immensely to have short, concise statements of why this is bad in simple terms that even Joe Sixpack can understand in the 40 seconds that it takes him to read a Letter to the Editor in the local newspaper. Such simple expressions that they cannot be dislodged casually by the vested interests that stand to profit at everyone else's expense, should such misguided legislation sneak through because a full review by unbiased experts has not been done.
I'm thinking here of messages along the lines of alerting citizens that if their digital rights to read are delineated by this legislation, that their future use of technology will in no way resemble that to which they've become accustomed for newspapers, magazines, books, LP records, CDs, etc.
That is, I can buy a newspaper anonymously and no one will know who I am or what I read. If I choose to sell my or even give away my newspaper to someone else, then that is my perogative and mine alone. Neither is it necessary for the transaction between me and that other person to be the business of anyone else. If I choose to scan in a book I just bought and read it on my laptop computer, then that is my current right. As long as I don't reproduce copyrighted work and sell it, then it should be within my rights. None such rights can be taken for granted in future society in which "Digital Copyright Management" is dictated so that no individual may be exposed to media without intrusive measures to insure that the Rights Owner (not necessarily the Creator) of the Original Digital Media is paid for this and every instance of Use.
Likewise, ramming down DMCA and related technology restrictions like this SSSCA is morally equivalent to mandating that crowbars, a technology that could be used for breaking into houses, be outlawed and only specially licensed crowbar researchers on a government maintained list may have access to crowbars. Leave the technology open. Force manufacturers to come up with a different system, a voluntary system, one where consumers have a choice and one which does not abridge the rights to fair use that consumers currently enjoy.
Finally, under no circumstances should burdensome government regulations on technology be used as an excuse to prop up a revenue model for a specific commercial lobby.
Neither should legitimate concerns for national security be applied with an unthinking broad brush to remove the liberties of expression enjoyed by the citizens of this free nation.
I'm not as good at formulating compelling arugments as some of you are. Herein I have probably used more lighter fluid than should be put into a letter to my legislator. I want it to have the most impact that it can.
Fair use is FAIR (Score:3, Insightful)
Intellectual Property owners have fallen into the fallacy that they may control every aspect of their work.
The doctrine of "first sale" stands in their way, and they feel this deprives them of profit. In fact, it does to an extent, but that extent is the deal they have made with the people of America.
Let us take an example from real life. Many text books are now only offered on CD-ROM. The publishers, not wanting to pass up any profit, have constructed these CD-ROMS so that a license key is required to access the book. Well and fine, except that these keys only last for a year. If you wish to access these books after that time, you are required to purchase the book again. These CD-ROM books are priced at about the same as the no longer available paper books.
If I wanted to use a clip of the World Trade Center attack in a report on terrorism, I cannot simply zip over to CNN.COM and down load it. The site doesn't allow me to save a copy of this to my system and reuse it how I wish. Even though this would be fair use, I cannot do so because of the technology used.
Fair use is in large part intent. Technology cannot read minds. It follows that there is no way to control intellectual property with technology while preserving fair use. Fair use it part of the bargain intellectual property owners have made with the public in exchange for copyright laws.
Society is in large part it's history. With history locked up, we have no past. A country ignorant of it's past has no future.
While Osama bin-Laden would like to destroy America, it is my considered opinion that the SSSCA would do far more destroy what makes America what it is than he ever could.
Destroy a man, you have taken him from his society. Destroy thought, you have killed his society.
Far from locking up Intellectual Property more than it already is, we should be ensuring that fair use rights are preserved.
Fair use is FAIR.
Re:My Experience With the Linux (Score:2)
Re:A way to get power to listen (Score:3, Insightful)