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Linux Software

More On The Compaq iPAQ Linux Handheld 127

Posted by CmdrTaco from the pass-me-a-tissue dept.
alee writes "Here's what everyone's been waiting to see: screenshots of the Compaq iPAQ (PocketPC) running Linux. No, you're not going to see it running a plain-jane shell -- you're going to actually see it running X! This project is a lot more mature than I expected. Here is Photos of iPAQ being opened, and running X and Screen captures of the iPAQ running X." Ummmm.... wow.
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More On The Compaq iPAQ Linux Handheld More

More On The Compaq iPAQ Linux Handheld

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  • Re:Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:3)

    by Quarters ( 18322 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:34AM (#867456)
    Why dream? The technology has been available for years.

    Wacom LCD Tablets [wacom.com]

    I remember seeing a drawing table/screen the size of a drafting table at SIGGRAPH a few years ago. It was in the Alias/Wavefront booth and they were running Alias Sketch on it. Quite cool.

  • Check out Wacom's PL Series [wacom.com]. You hook them up like a monitor and you can draw on them. Very cool, and very useful. Not positive about Linux support, but I'm sure someone is working on it.
  • Man, DREAM ON.. Perhaps a basic, stripped down theme, butcha ain't gonna be running any of the superflashy, gottaloadtheeyecandygraphics themes..
  • Forgot - The FAQ-O-Matic is Here [handhelds.org].
  • I never knew about these Wacom's at all. Thanks for turning me on to them. And to top it all off, they're compatible with the Millenium G400 I just bought. :o)

    Life is beautiful, once again.

  • Mirror... (Score:1)

    by pen ( 7191 )
    http://ps6mirror.hypermart.net/ipaq/ [hypermart.net]

    Beware, Hypermart popup banners ahead.

    --

  • You can download Pilot ROM's from the Palm website. You don't need a ROM of your own.

  • Looking at this the first thing I notice is its geared for right-handed people. Can you flip the screen upside-down?

    To finish my rant, many of these palmtops are geared for right handed people. How about offering left-handed models (or trade-ins), or being more neutral?

  • Re:Xscribble? (Score:4)

    by LinuxBean ( 1697 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @09:13AM (#867464)
    Xscribble is a part CMU part SUN graffiti like inputting stuff. It seems to recognize graffiti like inputs. Get it at handhelds.org [handhelds.org] in the download apps src directory. It needs a few tweaks for i386 and it is picky about where its config files are located.
  • You might want also to look at the TRGpro, [trgpro.com] which combines PalmOS, 8MB of RAM, and a standard CompactFlash slot that lets you use ordinary CF devices. You want 340MB of storage on your "Palm"? It's pretty expensive, but you can use the 340MB hard drive.

    It actually represents one of the "better" of the ways of running Linux on a handheld; TRG describes this... [trgnet.com] The original way of booting Linux on a PalmPilot required that you have a TRG memory board in your PalmPilot.

    The more important overreaching point here, to stay on topic with this being an alternative to iPAQ, is that I don't yet see that there is a set of PIM software to make the "Linux-running" palm-held machines useful.

    For instance, the iPAQ appears to require that you hook it up to something that pretends to be a "dumb terminal," or that you can control everything using pre-programmed apps that use the onboard buttons. In other words, if an application needs a keyboard, you're left "grasping" for that.

    There isn't perfectly suitable Linux software to run on PDAs for the PIM needs of:

    • Calendar
    • Phone list
    • To Do list
    • Note pad
  • What I like about the tech is that I won't be locked into some closed PDA system. I won't be limited to the apps which the manufacturer created, plus those from the few people who paid to get the SDK. (The Palm is the exception to this, as there are already many apps...)
  • i can't wait to set up a beowulf cluster of these...

    kidding. relax.

    but in all seriousness, this looks very cool. i wonder how long it will take for vendors to offer linux as an option on their handhelds. with all the industry hype of linux, it may not be as long as you think.


    ------------------------------
    funniest slash sites:infantililsm.org [infantilism.org]
  • Well, it runs X, however the screen is only 1/4 VGA. Some applications happily create dialog boxes larger than the screen (duh). Apparently there are several parties working to create PDA-screen-sized X applications.
    -russ
  • You can download development roms (which work fine) -- just extra debug code. I think you have to send in an agreement of some sort too.


    --

  • Yes, you're right. And if you're running Gnome, you'll notice a bunch of icons on your desktop -- those are actually panels (windows) handled by the file manager. Notice there are indeed no decorations; there already are many systems running X with undecorated windows on their screen.
  • It's a stroke recognizer. Strokes are similar to Graffiti(tm) but not identical. It's linked off www.handhelds.org. Keith Packard wrote it.
    -russ
  • The Compaq iPAQ H3650 Pocket 170293-001 with the optional PC Card Expansion Pack 170338-B21 enables PCMCIA support. It is documented to work with Compaq WRLS LAN PCCRD 11MBPS US 146927-001. I am pretty sure that it would work with most wired ethernet cards as well but that defeats the purpose doesn't it? All this is based upon the CE that it comes installed with but the potential for a linux Ipaq with networking is certainly there.

    MrNick

  • Gee, I wonder what inspired the name iPAQ?

    I think Apple's next machine should be called the Paqintosh.


    ChuckleBug

  • Did you fix the problem with finding the recognizers. And where does it put that libli_recog.so file?

  • Re:Xscribble? (Score:3)

    by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @09:49AM (#867476) Homepage
    The only tweaks for i386 it needs are to run xmkmf on the IMakefiles. And you do need to edit a header file to change the config file location. Other than that, it works fine on my x86 box.
    -russ
  • This is rated 2: interesting? How about -1 flamebait? like anyone would use a version of linux from the evil empire. And like the evil empire would produce a product that they had to open source.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but why would they even need a deal to use MS Linux (If there was such a thing) as MS Linux would keep the old free-license - unless they wrote something completely new and unrelated but liked the linux name.....

    That's my rant for the day.
  • Ok, so now we make X just a little smaller and throw it on the watch that IBM put out. Then we run an X server on the watch and run X-clock.

    I particularly like this picture [handhelds.org] showing how far we've come in calculator technology ;-)

    Chris
  • DOS versions of GCC require huge chunks of memory and a 386 chip. It will not run on an 8088.

    Now, your suggestion for coding on the Palm V is intriguing. What C++ compiler works on the Palm V?

  • I think Qt/Embedded [trolltech.com] would be a good choice. It looks like it's exactly right for the job. I saw it running at Linuxtag and, though I didn't take a very detailed look at it, I had a positive first impression of it. Here's the faq [trolltech.com] if you're interested.

    Chris
  • ...and since x doesn't enforce policy it should be possible to make a wm that would only show one window at a time, a single button click to call up a list of running apps (one might be an app manager). maybe the os could have the buttons on the ipaq respond as mouse buttons - x supports at least five mouse buttons.

    in fact i recall a wm called the tile wm what would tile windows and not let them overlap.
  • Being as there has been an ssh client for Palm for ages...I'd guess no problem. (if the 16Mhz Palm can ssh, anything can...)
  • I'd like to see someone integrate one of these into a notebook.

    Well, Mitsubishi has the AMiTY CP and XP [mitsubishi-mobile.com]. They use the WACOM technology for their LCD displays/digitizer tablets. Heck, they use standard Intel mobile Pentium chips, 2.5" notebook harddrives, and run Windows 98, so installing Linux or BSD would probably be fairly easy.

    Not using WACOM parts, but still related are the ePlates [hitachi.com] from Hitachi. These are quite interesting; however at about the same size and weight as the AMiTY tablets, and with Windows CE instead of Windows 98, they might not be as much fun. Cheaper though.

    There are a number of other tablet computers on the market. They're just a bit more difficult to track down than your standard, boring old notebook. Oh, and a little more expensive.

  • XFree86 4.0 is even better at memory managment, and, while running under the iPaq, actually consumes *LESS* system resources then CE's explorer.

    So you're saying that the GUI takes up less resources on X than an app running on Windows CE?

    Say it ain't so!

    How about telling comparing X with how much system resources *the GUI* takes up under CE instead of an app running on top of it?

    Simon
  • I work at Compaq, in the Alpha Linux group, and I've played with the iPAQ handheld.. there's no MS Linux anywhere around here. Never heard of it. Pretty sure it's a complete fabrication. So please.. ignore the troll. Move along. Thank you.
  • The problem is not that the port of GCC is bad, it's that the port is specifically intended to be the best compiler for DOS that exists. That means that it's a 32 bit compiler running with a DOS extender and full memory protection.

    Turbo C++ is a nice compiler, but it's 16-bit and no memory protection. It was an earlier, more innocent time. In other words, it was primitive, and it sucked. Just kidding... I learned C++ with Turbo C++.

  • Hmm...need at least five vertical pixels, for 3, 8, B, E, and S, and you need at least five horizontal pixels for M. [...] I figured this sort of thing out when I was a ten-year-old larval geek

    Obviously haven't progressed much past the larval stage, then :-) The above is only true for monochrome. Using colour antialiased text, as the original poster suggested, you can do better than that. 3 vertical pixels is just about readable, although it only works well for upper case characters, and you really need some context to give your brain a helping hand. 4 vertical pixels is fine...

  • Sorry, I made a mistake. There's an errant strcpy() prototype that needs to be deleted. You'll know it when you see the compilation barf on it. Also, edit ScribbleP.h and change the path to the classifier files. And it installs a library, so you have to make install it before you can do anything.
    -russ
  • I have a friend who was working on that project for Compaq (he has since quit...Compaq works you like a dog)...funny bit he told me was that Compaq had signed a deal with MS for the use of..drumroll...usage of MS Linux on their machines...thats right folks...MS Linux...so prepare to be owned by MS soon....and in response to another comment..iPAQ is Compaq's name for just about any of their new "slimline" stylie computer stuff...they have an iPaq desktop and now their iPaq handheld...all in catchy black and silver cases (I think they look nice...)..anyway...thats my bit...MS Linux...muahahahahahahaha
  • It seems that their server is not responding well to the sudden surge in traffic... Anyone have links to pictures on mirrors or something?
  • There's not much to tell.

    The DT104 board holds an AVR 20-pin microcontroller. RS-232 serial interface to
    the PC. One standard LCD display (driven in 4-bit mode), up to 8 pushbuttons,
    a piezo speaker and an ultrabright LED.

    Each button push/release sends an event down the serial line. It's up to the
    master to turn that into keys (I have a chord-set defined). The speaker is there
    mostly because the micro has a nice timer output to hook it to, the LED
    is an attention-getter and also a mini-torch (I'm forever poking into dark places where a little light in hand would be helpful).

    Power is 7.2v NiCd pack. LCD is currently 16x2 but I have plans to switch to a
    128x64 graphic. As you can see, I'm into minimalist computing. I don't think anyone will be porting X to this. :-)

    My intended application is wearable computing---cpu unit lives in backpack, or
    on belt, display/chord unit is held in hand, connected via curly phone-style cord.

  • I want something the size of a psion (preferably with a small keyboard) which can run gcc, has a serial port, uses AA batteries (so I can replace them with a quick visit to a newsagent), has at least a 24hr battery life, has a PCMCIA slot (probably for a 340mb IBM microdrive or an ethernet card) and fits nicely in my pocket.

    I've looked at all sorts of devices, but they all fail on some criteria. The tiny librettos don't meet the battery criteria, psions and palms don't have the horsepower, the Aero and the Cassiopeaia (sp?) and similar things don't have PCMCIA (or ethernet/HD).

    I'm thinking that a hacked lart [tudelft.nl] might do the trick, but I lack the skills to build it.

    Please Santa.....

  • I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:4)

    by zaphod4224 ( 220764 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:42AM (#867493)
    What I want to know is how long before x-copilot is ported to this thing? Just think, once it's ported, you probably won't have to give up your favorite palm apps. Even under emulation, it will probably run faster than a real palm, and with better color???
  • I think speech recognition is where this is taking us, but the software for that is too bulky and requires too many resources to run on a PDA, for now.

    Just send the voice packets to your central server, have it convert it and send it back.

  • Re:iPaq? (Score:3)

    by Happy Monkey ( 183927 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:42AM (#867495) Homepage
    Great, they named it after a dead rapper.

    Wouldn't that be iiPaq?
    ___

  • iPaq refers to both the handheld and the slim NT workstations... confusing naming, indeed.
  • Bear in mind that iPaq is also the name for a legacy-free desktop that Compaq made, with no floppy drive and only USB connectors. It didn't include a monitor, unlike Gateway and Dell's half-assed attempts to clone the iMac.
  • Yes, a new WM will be needed. But that is the nice thing about X: you are not tied to a particular window manager (or any at all, really), and thus is very good for the job at hand (:P), which is a good thing as it means a new graphical system doesn't need to be written for the iPaq.

    Bill - aka taniwha
    --

  • Someone just did a smal window manager (swm, it's on freshmeat) that looks like it could be exactlly what this needs.

    But what do I know... I took the blue pill.

    ---

  • Well the price of the SDK is just the price of a CD and shipping ($7.50). And this includes not only the SDK, but compilers and an IDE as well. I've considered getting an iPaq because it IS easy to develop software for them.
  • There are several CE keyboards currently or about to be on the market -- they usually attach to the serial port. In fact, the keyboard from the old Apple Newton can be adapted to this purpose.
  • X works fine on a handheld. X applications might not work so very well. That's why some people are working on Gnome on a PDA [gnome.org]. It was on slashdot a few weeks ago. If I were a moderator, I'd mark your post down as *redundant*.
    -russ
  • The problem, I'm told, is handhelds.org can't distribute PalmPilot ROM images. If you own a Palm, no prob, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

    So just leave it for the user to find. Some already own a Palm, and some will get it from... uhh... a friend with a Palm. Yeah, that's it.

    --

  • I had one of these little guys for the longest time (Actually, it's younger brother, the 100LX). I loved it, sold it when I started using my pilot more though - I didn't have the money to get any more PCMCIA space for it, and it's built in memory was limitied at 1 meg (I belive there are people with 8 meg 200LX's, and the pcmcia card lets you expand that as big as you want!). This little gem had a wonderful keyboard - nice HP keys - and a seperate notepad. It ran DOS; I had a old version of Tubro C++ for it, although I'm sure it could run the DOS versions of gcc just fine.

    Unfortunately, HP didn't continue developing this technology, so it's stuck with an 8088 series processor (IIRC) and while snappy, it won't run linux (it did run minix, though!). The Windows CE crap devices took over.. if HP put a clocked down 486 in one of these packages, it would be an incredible piece of hardware.

    However, if you want some free advice, don't try to get an all in one unit, get a Palm V and a folding keyboard to write code on whereever, and then pick up a old Sony Vaio 505 for your breifcase and run Linux on it. This combination (although I use a Pro, not a V) has proven to work the best for me.. you get the best of both worlds.

  • ...what is the feasibility of installing, and using, a SSH client on one of these palmtops (either the iPaq, or the Yopy)? It would seem an excellent way to maintain communication with your server, while on the road: use the Compaq Proliant paging functionality to page you, and then fix whatever went wrong using your palmtop. I can't see the stylus pen being the best input device, but it should do in a pinch... What about connectivity?
  • E already runs on the Netwinder, so I expect you could just copy it over as a binary. Except, of course, it's incredibly bloated software, so you probably couldn't even fit it into 16M of flash.
    -russ
  • You can with the Palm. If you have a Palm V and a wireless modem, you could set up your server with VNC and the palm with the client (yes, there is one) and procede to do whatever you want to your network from wherever you want. I've had TONS of fun doing this to poor unfortunant illiterates in the computer lab. The look on their face is priceless when you minimize their work and they think it has been closed w/o saving.

    I don't know if there is a VNC client or wireless modem that would work w/ the iPaq, especially an iPaq running Linux. I don't believe that a wireless modem sleeve has been developed (much less released) yet.
  • You just raised the eBay value of old and broken Palms...people can buy them to get the ROM license.

  • Wasn't aware there wasn't better porting for GCC. Borland Turbo C++ ran just fine on the 'lil guy.

    Now, your suggestion for coding on the Palm V is intriguing. What C++ compiler works on the Palm V?

    I don't need a compiler to code. :) There's lots of good text editors available. I'm working on a small program to let me design C++ objects on the fly. Then, I can take the code and debug it at a later time.. I did play around with a nifty little program called PocketC for the Palm. Nice, but restricted..

    I wonder if GCC might run in the DOS emulator that's available for WinCE machines.. although, that's why I have a vaio, it's a real computer, runs linux 100%, and isn't a lot bigger than those WinCE machines (and it wasn't even that much more expensive, if you shop around for one of the older ones w/o winmodems..)

  • You are not alone in wanting this. The main things I want, (Ie: Can't live without) are tcp/ip, ethernet, and a keyboard.

    Any ideas???? Anyone????

  • Re:Cool! (Score:3)

    by Christopher B. Brown ( 1267 ) <cbbrowne@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @09:57AM (#867512) Homepage
    The hardware appears to have inherited a lot of characteristics directly from the Itsy, so it comes as no surprise that Jim Gettys and crew could proceed fairly quickly to having Linux and X working on the iPAQ.

    Note that the TRG card was not solely providing 8MB of RAM, but also supplied some flashable ROM capabilities; I'm not sure which part was critical to letting Linux boot.

    If you look at the uClinux web site, [uclinux.org] it really seems quite directed to use in embedded applications, and part of the documentation there suggests that many apps won't even need multitasking, which isn't terribly compatible with this being a "generally" useful platform.

    I don't think you'll be running a uClinux PDA any time soon, suffice it to say...

  • iPaq? (Score:3)

    by kwsNI ( 133721 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:18AM (#867513) Homepage
    Great, they named it after a dead rapper.

    kwsNI
  • I've been wondering when HP would get its thumb
    out and make a new calc on par with the 48G or
    even the old 15's.

    Now I can just run x48 on this, and back that up
    with yorick or scilab.

  • 9wm might be a good choice, but I can't wait to try larswm on it, I don't think I'd want to actually have to move and resize windows on such a small screen. :) (larswm is at http://www.fnurt.net/larswm [fnurt.net])
  • IIRC G.723 is ~ 8kpbs
    And if you have a sufficiently powerful server time should be minimal

    This is a prime example of a network computer and is what I think is the future...all your home appliances could be dumb clients with wireless connections to your server

  • This is what I've been waiting for. Tiny little portable computers that hvae some horsepower. I've read up on the Itsy and such and really liked it and couldn't wait for a real product to come out. It's starting to look like a reality.

    And Linux is a HUGE plus.

  • New WM? (Score:4)

    by Mike Schiraldi ( 18296 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:21AM (#867518) Homepage Journal
    It's cool and all that they fit X onto such a small handheld, but i don't think common X window managers will work well.. i mean, look at the real estate that the title bars take up. As Palm showed us, handhelds work better with a different kind of UI.
    --
  • Look at SH3 WinCe machines, and linuxsh.sourceforge.net. You need a cf card to boot (which i havent gotten yet), but the hardware is decent, cheep, has a keyboard, and a PMCIA slot.
  • But when can I run e [themes.org] on it?!
  • To some degree I agree that X may not be ideal for handhelds. However, <oldfart>you young tykes have been misled by Enlightenment, WindowMaker et.al. in respect to the job description of a "Window Manager"</oldfart>.

    WMs such as 9wm, wmx or flwm work very well with restricted screen and memory resources. (I use wmx on full-size systems and I don't miss the fluff of Those Other Programs).

  • What a ridiculous post.
  • Suddenly my Visor just doesn't seem to be the kick-ass cool gadget it used to be.
  • It was done. In early 1997.

    Dragon Systems demonstrates PDA speech recognition technology on Digital Equipment Corporation's StrongARM Processor in the Apple Newton MessagePad 2000.

    http://www.dragonsystems .com/main/docs/about/milestone.html [dragonsystems.com]

    Amazing how you still can't get a unit to replace a Newton 2[01]00 messagepad (just yet) Someone needs to have one done by 2010, whent he messagepad has a date problem.
  • Anyone have links?

  • With wireless stuff, you could admin the network from anywhere.
  • This brings an interesting question to the forefront: is there a window manager currently created (or that can be easily modified) to fit most handheld's dimensions? Like a MiniKDE or MiniGnome?

    The guy who mentioned Palm's UI has got it right: Linux needs a specific window manager tailored to the small screen.

  • Re:New WM? (Score:3)

    by Thomas Charron ( 1485 ) <twaffle@nOSPAM.gmail.com> on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:54AM (#867528) Homepage
    I'd say this is not the case. Many window managers actually look a whole lot like the CE interface. Look at wm, twm, olvwm, etc. Use a font size meant for the system, and it functions nearly exactly like CE. CE also has title bars, don't forget. Under CE, though, normally nearly all apps are considered full screen. Palm is the same way. All apps are full screen. Window bars are A) Not always required, and B) Can be made NOT to use the same realestate as on a desktop system.

  • Where to get the binaries/kernel from (Score:3)

    by philj ( 13777 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:55AM (#867529)
    You can get binaries and the kernel Here [handhelds.org] (that's if you're mad enough to try :-)
  • no.... what other computer company makes a product that has a name that sounds like iPaq? Yup, iMac, at least its a handheld and not a lame clone attempt.

  • X isn't nearly as 'bloated' as many people believe. XFree86 4.0 is even better at memory managment, and, while running under the iPaq, actually consumes *LESS* system resources then CE's explorer..
  • I'd like to see someone integrate one of these into a notebook. A stylus would be so much easier to use than a trackpad or eraserhead. Maybe it's time for "pen PCs" to make a comeback?

    Every day we're standing in a wind tunnel/Facing down the future coming fast - Rush

  • How about this one?... (Score:5)

    by Coq ( 204365 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:59AM (#867533)
    Ok, so now we make X just a little smaller and throw it on the watch that IBM put out. Then we run an X server on the watch and run X-clock.

  • Xscribble? (Score:3)

    by freebe ( 174010 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @09:00AM (#867534) Homepage
    What's this xscribble program I see? Where do I download it? How does it work? Does it recognise graffiti? Why isn't there a website for it (at least in google?)
  • Who in the world would want to put the Palm UI on a WinCE device?!?!?! Why ruin a perfectly good 240x320 screen in brilliant color by putting a grey and green 72x14 pixel UI (or whatever)?

    One issue that could be addressed is creating a window manager that is built around vertical screens. I saw that the guy had the thing turned 90 degrees just to run the X WM. Certainly, the device is designed ergonomically to be used vertical.

    I love my Jornada, but i'm hunting the stores everyday for an Ipaq. Thank goodness for the corporate American Express card!



    "Blue Elf has destroyed the food!"

  • I wonder if you could innocently return it saying that it crashed and won't come back up. Blame microsoft for having a corruptable OS, and demand your money back. With any luck, they won't check things out and see that have a linux kernel is where the OS should be...

  • You can't just go buy one. They're backlogged.

    But basically what you have to do is use a Windoze machine to install CELoader and bootldr. Using CELoader, you start bootldr. Then you have to communicate over the serial port (you can convert the USB cradle into a serial interface if you know how to count pins and solder), and download new flash images using xmodem.

    Yeah, it's only for hackers right now, but jump in! The water's fine!
    -russ
    p.s. I'll have mine at LWE. Find me and ask me to show it to you.
  • The "Hands Off X!" which is mentioned apparently was a talk [gnome.org] about how Scheifler had helper programs interface to X. I think the software is used in Xtalk [sri.com] and a2x [cam.ac.uk]

  • Re:I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:3)

    by bgdarnel ( 2144 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @10:01AM (#867542) Homepage
    You can barely emulate a Palm at full speed on a 300MHz desktop machine; there's no way it would be faster on a 133MHz StrongARM. Granted, the current emulators, being mainly for debugging purposes, have a ton of extra error checks, but I don't think it'd be enough to make up the difference.
  • ...wouldn't it be neat if we could really take advantage of the power of X on a PDA?

    Imagine connecting the Xserver on your handheld to the Xclient on your PC :) All you'd need is networking support for the PDA.

    With a fast network this could really rock, you could offload all the processor intensive stuff onto your PC/whatever and just have the handheld render the graphics.

    With the coming of net appliances and such this seems to me like a really great way to run your household.

    But unless we do stuff like this, why would we run X on a handheld at all? I mean it might be better than Windows CE, but Palm OS was designed from the ground up for PDA's I can't see taking a huge piece of software like Windows or X to a handheld unless there are some inherent advantages in doing so.

    It would really be cool to see this evolve beyond just another "neat hack".

  • The X server will be modified so it can run in any orientation
    -russ
  • Not too bad an idea... (kinda) I just recently saw a Timex that had a ``screensaver''. The watch had a pixel-based screen rather than 7 segment display... I'm sure people would pay for a watch that did that cool Xclock morphing numbers thing :-)

    --Ben

  • Yeah, I always by the machine with the most original name, because it says so much about it. It's not like the name is a marketing tool, completely irrelevant to all but the most foolish/ignorant consumers.

    An original name says almost as much about a machine as the color and translucency of the plastic in the case.

  • Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:4)

    by Consul ( 119169 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:25AM (#867554) Journal
    The idea of drawing directly on an LCD screen would make an excellent graphic arts interface. You could have your 8.5x11 inch touch tablet screen, complete with Crusoe processor running Linux and CorelDRAW 9 or Canvas 7 (this is where a port of Illustrator to Linux would be nice). All you need to do is draw straight on the syrface to put all of your illustrations together.

    Yes, I know this is somewhat offtopic, but I can't help but dream about this.

  • Cool! (Score:3)

    by suwalski ( 176418 ) on Wednesday August 09, 2000 @08:25AM (#867555)
    This looks very much like the screenshots of the Itsy using the pen entry system. Perhaps we can still have Linux on handhelds.

    Does anyone know what is going on with Linux on Palm hardware? Last I checked you needed a special 8-meg TRG card. But now that Palms ship with 8-megs of RAM... I'd like to hear from anyone who knows anything!
  • Nothing would be worse then having to stare at a 500$ doorstop a few days after buying it..

    Knowing Wince, it'd probably be more useful as a doorstep... hehe...

  • iPAQ? (Score:2)

    by X ( 1235 )
    Isn't an iPAQ a server appliance running NT?
  • wonder how long it will be until someone tries to turn one of those into a webserver?
  • This is the biggest issue that worries the hell outa me with all this, and one of the ONLY reasons I'm not gonna go do this untill it's more mature..

    If this installation fails then your iPAQ could become unusable.
    This procedure has been tested on less than a handful of units. This version, however, has a check sum code to validate that an uncorrupted bootlader is being installed, and is less likely than the previous installation process to result in an installation failure.

    If you install Linux at this time then you can not return to WinCE.
    Work is underway to enable you to save your WinCE image before installing an operating system, but at this time implementation is not complete.

    I'll wait at LEAST untill I have the failsafe to back to CE in worst case. Nothing would be worse then having to stare at a 500$ doorstop a few days after buying it..
  • Hmm...need at least five vertical pixels, for 3, 8, B, E, and S, and you need at least five horizontal pixels for M. That gives you a maximum resolution of 64*48. You can sort of get by with four horizontally, giving you 80x48. I figured this sort of thing out when I was a ten-year-old larval geek...ah, youth! (wipes away tear)
  • Having to actually write out each letter of a command is too much of a PIA to do anything useful with it.

    Perhaps, but the good news is that the original developers of Unix figured that typing on a teletype was a PIA too, so most Unix/Linux commands are just a few letters.

    Cryptic? Not at all, just PDA-friendly. :-)
  • Now we just need to wait for the hardcore geeks to make small little color bitmaps to represent text characters in a smaller space by using pixel color to squeeze extra bits out of a smaller space, so people can have large "text" screens (at least 80x50) on a 320x240 display =:-) and then we're all doomed to turn into cyborgs =:-)
  • Well, it looks really cool, and I would so love to run 'ls' with a stylus!

    ...but I'm not about to pay $500 for just that. Okay, if I had an expensive net connection I could run telnet too, or check out that GNOME article from my lean-to...

    One thing I love about Transmeta's devices is the x86 compatibility. Okay, I'm biased, but I think there's some value to being able to run DOSEmu or Wine, or for that matter RealPlayer 7...

    But also, I just can't see a lot that I'd want to use this for... Maybe I'm just not a PDA kind of person. I guess I could run 'cal', but I despise post-it notes, and I'd want to use that stylus as little as possible.

    Okay; end of useful content.

    Wow, imagine a beowulf of these things!

    Where are the warez for the StrongArm, dude?

    Hey, can it play mp3's? ;)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Ok, I rephrase.. The X Server and the twm window manager consume less memory then the CE explorer. The Linux kernel also consumes less memory then that of the CE kernel, whcih leads to an overall reduction in memory usage over that of CE using CE's explorer..
  • The X Server and the twm window manager consume less memory then the CE explorer. The Linux kernel also consumes less memory then that of the CE kernel, whcih leads to an overall reduction in memory usage over that of CE using CE's explorer..

    So what you're still saying is that:

    The X Windows GUI consumes less memory than WinCE with an App running on top of it?

    TWM is a Window Manager. Get a real app running on top of that and then you can make the comparison between that and CE with a real app running on it (namely: explorer).

    Also, presumably you have some hard data to back up your theory?

    Simon

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