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Linux Business

LinuxFest 2000 - Show Your Support 98

Posted by emmett from the emmett-is-a-keynoter-hide-the-children dept.
An Anonymous Coward writes: "When you are walking into a tradeshow and the first thing spoken is, 'I hear this thing is a flop,' you know you're in trouble. That about sums up my experience Friday at LINUXFest 2000. I know that there are more Linux users in the Kansas City community than this, and it would be nice to see some support. It would be nice to see a better showing Saturday, and perhaps Slashdot readers would be interested in Emmett's scheduled speech." I will be delivering a keynote, and it would be great to see you there. Admission's free. As far as the show being a flop, I'm writing a full feature on it so you can decide for yourself.
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LinuxFest 2000 - Show Your Support More

LinuxFest 2000 - Show Your Support

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  • I am a native of Kansas City and a Linux user/advocate, but this show was doomed from the start.
    1. The "trade show" is being held in the so-called Overland Park International Trade Center, which is really just a big garage attached to the much nicer KC Gift Mart (currently empty).
    2. Postcards were mailed to local businesses, but the wrong address was given. The building is not easy to find if you've never been there before.
    3. The location is convenient to the new Sprint campus, but inconvenient to smaller businesses in downtown KC (IMHO more likely to be buyers). The downstairs part of Bartle Hall would be a better venue.
    4. The trade show is free. The seminars were for $, but since few signed up, they are also now free, I understand.
    5. Some of the vendors bailed out after the first day.
    There is a pretty healthy sprinkling of big name Linux vendors, especially among the magazines. Linux Mall is there. Compaq is there. However, there are more exhibitors than attendees (including the college students from KULUA). I went to the show in Columbia, MO (University of Missouri) last year, and the attendance was MUCH better, even on a weekend when many students were out of town. I don't think Linux Fest will be back, but if they are, I hope they hold it at the downtown Marriott, or Bartle Hall, or UMKC, or somewhere else where they could possibly get some walk-in traffic.
  • No offense to the nice folks in Kansas City, but this does not seem to be an optimal location for a Linux show.

    Farm equipment, yes, but Linux?... you are on the wrong coast.
  • I didn't say you were all farmers, but you can't deny that agriculture is big in KC.

    Thats not a slam anyway - agriculture today is as high-tech and smart people intensive as any other major industry.

    I'm just saying that Linux is such a small specialized subset of the computer show domain its probably not appropriate for a relativly small market like KC.

    OTOH, I would bet that the farm equipment show in KC is probably a good one.

  • Lynx was developed at the University of Kansas.
  • can be found here:

    http://kong.bstc.net/list proc/archive/June2000/0040.shtml [bstc.net]

    I was going to go on saturday with another Omaha LUG member, but we both decided the weekend could be better spent doing other things after reading this review.

    I wondered how this event would turn out from the start, not much of a website, I've seen no other promotion materials, high entry fees, etc. It's to bad those of us in the midwest have to go to either coast just to hang out with geeks for a few days.

    On the bright side, if anybody is in the Omaha, NE area and would like to attend our LUG meeting on sunday, you're more than welcome. See: http://olug.bstc.net/meet.shtml [bstc.net] for more details. I think I'm going to end up giving a short talk on zope sunday also.

  • You're getting ahead of yourself. Even if "KPH" did stand for "kilometers per hour", the analogous noun would be "kilometer per". No, there's no such thing as a "kilometer per", just as there's no such thing as a "floating point operation per".
  • Subject says it all.

    --
  • Contrary to (apparently) popular belief, Kansas City is not made up of a bunch of farmers. KC and (especially) Overland Park are well developed technologically. We may not be as well developed as the coastal areas, but that doesn't mean we are a bunch of hicks, either. Besides, we need a few Linux events here in the midwest so those of us who can't find the time to travel 1000+ miles can still enjoy them.

    --
  • I visited on Thursday and was told by one of the vendors still there that they had a total of 65 visitors on Wednesday. 65; Damn. I had high hopes for the show but after being there, I'd be very, very surprised if KC ever gets another Linux tradeshow with any big vendors. Informix was gone by Wed noon and RedHat pulled out Wed evening. I was really looking forward to talking to both those vendors. The guys at the Atipa booth were cool and somewhat bummed by the fact that the turn-out was so awful. Bah. This just serves to remind me why I'm moving to the east coast. Someplace where technology in general (and Linux in particular) is appreciated.
  • I'm -from- KC, and I didn't go.. Partially because right now, I'd be as useless as a Windoze box at a Linux show. ;) (Just had surgery.) But largely because of one or two big reasons: there are already a _ton_ of shows (IMO), and there are way too many to go to, at least, on a reasonable budget. Perhaps someone with lots of IPOs or outside support (hey, Apple...), but not us. (I work for LinuxPPC Inc., if you didn't know.)

    Here are the ones I try to make: Macworld NY snd San Fran, which are in July and January of each year. So, that's two chunks of the year eaten by trade shows. BIG trade shows. And expensive. Anyway, there's also the Atlanta Linux Showcase, which is on my "must go" list. That's in October. OK, January, July, and October.. I did the ALS right before I got married, so I guess that's OK.. but I missed my wife's 30th birthday because of Macworld SF..

    ...and then there's the LinuxWorldExpos, which I think are in April and... I can't remember if there's another one. So, that's 4 or 5. Then there's international shows: one of ours guys just went to Korea for some show. Ouch. We could go to Europe or maybe Mexico, as there's definately shows in Europe. (I'd be into an Italian show, myself.)

    So, basically, the whole year could be dominated by trade shows. Easily. I'd also be exhausted, and that is me in the state I was in _before_ the accident!

    IMNSHO, there are too many trade shows. In one year, I think we did two Macworlds, two LinuxWorlds, a Comdex, and ALS. Ohmy. That was definately too many -- and those were just the US shows! Also, we make _free_ software. As in, we don't have M$'s massive profits to pay for us to go to a show and spend billions on it. That'd be nice, but it's not how it is. Zo.

    I do feel kinda bad that a show in KC didn't do well -- I'm from there, originally. Wouldn't mind visiting some time, and was tempted to when I heard there was a show that was going to happen there. But, the accident saw to it that I didn't go anywhere (except the hospital for a few weeks), so for us, it would've been kinda bad. Even so, it would've been Another Trade Show, which I'm already pretty tired of doing. I know it's part of the computer business now, but for someone who lives in an odd corner of the US, it's not good. But, that's just my opinion. Too many shows. Yeah.

    'nuff said.

    (He says after typing for 10 minutes...)
  • Yes, it's somewhere under li.org .

    Bruce

  • The one in San Jose is huge. All trade show booth space is booked, 50 companies are waiting for someone else to cancel. The attached Hilton hotel has all suites booked. Attendance was very high last time. The failure in KC is not a reflection on Linux, but due to problems with a first-time show, money running short, and too much work for only one guy.

    Bruce

  • Slashdot does fund itself through advertising. Thus, I doubt they generally promote shows that don't advertise. Nobody posted to technocrat, not that we get nearly as many readers. Better use could have been made of free promotion.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • Yes, you were the only community presence left there for most of the week. But Eric Raymond, Larry Augustin, and I all took time to present there. I would have stayed longer except that I was leaving Valerie alone with a two-month-old baby to present at the show. I don't get paid for this either, only my transportation and lodging is taken care of.

    And yes, the LUG guys worked hard and deserve better. I do know one LUG guy who took the entire week off from his job to do things like drive the speakers to and from the airport. Thanks, Hal!

    Hopefully they can organize it differently next year.

    Bruce

  • I'm sorry I couldn't stay longer. I had an 8PM flight, and a 2-month baby waiting at home.

    I would be glad to come to Kansas again, and to other small, independent shows. All I ask the small guys for is travel and lodging expenses. If the show is well-financed and in an interesting place, I sometimes ask them to fly Val and the baby out to be with me. But I don't ask for any honoraria.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • Sad, but true. (Score:4)

    by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) <bruce@perens.com> on Friday June 23, 2000 @08:21PM (#979460) Homepage Journal
    Go to the show on Saturday, the exhibitors especially would really like to see you.

    Eric Raymond, Larry Augustin, and I were all there on Tuesday. We wanted to help out another independent show, lest IDG and Ziff-Davis get a lock on Linux trade shows. We did this for The Bazaar too, which worked out much better.

    Greg, the promoter of the KC show, is a nice guy and he really cares, but it sounds as if he ran out of money and resources to promote the show, and he tried to do too much on his own. The two local Linux User Groups helped out, but there was little they could do - it sounds as if they were brought in much too late. I spoke on Tuesday morning, to 13 people. Apparently, the talk wasn't publicized sufficiently. Larry, Eric, and I sat at a table in a Kansas City restaurant on Tuesday evening, a $20/ticket event open to the public, and were undisturbed. Few in the area knew we were there. At least it was nice to have the chance to talk with Larry and Eric.

    Sigh. I was hoping this would get better on Wednesday. I guess it didn't. I left Tuesday night to get back to the baby and didn't see the rest of the show.

    Darn. There's no point in chastizing Greg, the exhibitors have no doubt already parbroiled him. Kansas City deserves a good Linux show and I hope we can make a better one next year.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • My issue wasn't with you supporting the community by posting it or by speaking there to support the community, I think thats great and I commend you for it. The thing is though, would the story have made it to Slashdot if you werent speaking there? How many other LUG related events go unnoticed even though they could be pretty major events drawing alot of people.
  • Why is it that this event gets attention on Slashdot while others get rejected or looked over? Is it because a member of the Slashdot staff is giving a keynote at the event? That sounds really unprofessional to me.
  • It was on Linux.com in the LUG section, unfortunately I have a feeling that it fell into the same predicament that my LUG has run into many times, the big Linux news sites (even Slashdot) dont want to have anything to do with the events. Which is kinda funny since the people running and organizing the events are the ones that helped give the people running those sites their start. They have lost their sense of community pride and support.
  • Unlike the dotcommers getting laid off in Silicon Valley (including those who never had a real job in the first place), some of us folks in flyover country have to work for a living and can't go to trade shows on a weekday. If I didn't have to work tomorrow and run errands Sunday, I'd probably road trip out there from St. Louis. If the event was promoted well enough around KC, you'll probably get higher attendance tomorrow.

    Elsewhere in the Heart of America(tm), MLUG (http://mlug.missouri.edu/) has held some pretty successful Linux/OpenSource events in Columbia, MO. They had Eric Raymond as a keynote speaker last year, and they've had a couple of great installfests. Maybe if there were more events like that in KC or STL, in addition to or in lieu of more tradeshows, there'd be greater attendance. Of course unless someone is willing to put forth the necessary effort and resources to get it together without expectation of smashing success on the first try, it may be a chicken-and-egg problem (i.e. how to attract speakers without guaranteed attendance).
  • Have you ever actually been to a trade show? I've personally never seen or heard of one that I would consider an "investment" for my employer to make in me. I'd rather go to something like the Black Hat Briefings or even a vendor training program. It's a chance to hang out and pick up swag. It's barely fun, and definitely not enriching.
  • Actually, there's no such thing as a flop (int he computer sense). The word is flops, and it means FLoating point OPeration per Second. The "s" is for seconds, not to pluralize the word.
  • Chicago would be better location if one insists on having Linux events in the midwest.
  • Hi...

    Well, poopie. I'm down here in Springfield, Missouri...if I'd known about it, I might could have come up today (I work tomorrow & Sunday), like I did when Princess Mononoke was playing up there. But then again, thinking about it more rationally, I probably couldn't have...gas is $1.70-1.80 a gallon, and I'm still having problems getting my money supply (financial aid) for the summer.

    Maybe next year.
    --

  • Just to clarify. Larry Augustin, Bruce Perens, and Eric Raymond, had nothing to do with the $20 admission to the dinner. I was pissed when I saw Greg Palmer turning away people at the door because they were not willing to pay the $20 for the food that was there.
  • Actually what happend was that Larry's talk was listed on the schedule as being at the convention center, not at the restaurant a few miles north. Anyone showing up at the convention was greeted with locked doors.

    As for your talk Bruce, you weren't listed at all.
    You were a pleasant surprise, however the first I heard of you being there was when I saw you at the restaurant.
  • It would have been nice if they'd actually told some people about this. I live about 10 miles from that convention center and this is the first I've heard of it.
  • here is my take on the show. I have not been to it yet, but will mosey (see! I am from Kansas City!) over on Saturday.

    Be that as it may, KC has some absolutely horrible shows. I am not talking bad - I am talking really bad. Every year there is some computer show that comes through town run by some outfit from Arizona. What kinds of high tech cool geek toys do they have on display?

    Copying machines! Whoo boy! Just what I wanna see lots of. I am not joking either. Last time I went (1999), they had like 300 booths. There were ISPs in five or six of them, Apple had a decent sized booth, IBM was nowhere to be seen, MS was absent so I was unable to laugh at them, and other than one of the video production companies in town having a booth showing all their digital editing stuff, the rest of it was taken up with copier companies.

    I think this is probably why folks in KC are not showing up at this thing, to be honest. It is a shame really. Lots of us just don't know what a good show can be like.

  • Linux is not about marketing release dates.
    Linux is not about account managers.
    Linux is not for user experience teams and
    assistant project managers and all of the other corporate phbs etc that act as filler to the
    content.

    Linux is for the handfull of morlocks who get
    the real work done. Linux is a development environment for programmers.
    tradeshows if they can help it.
  • Well, I can only say this much... when I arrived the very first day Greg needed help with his computer. Wanna know why? He was using Windows. Add this to his obvious lack of organizational skills and the problems with this conference become crystal clear.

  • Any big Linux shows coming anytime soon in the near (~100 miles) vicinity of the D.C./Baltimore area or Massachusetts?
    --
  • For all of you who are in Kansas and might be thinking about going: watch out. The last time emmett was on Geeks in Space, he said about all the four letter words that premium cabel channels are willing to play (he didn't, though, say anything that even Showtime would censor). Just a kind warning incase you have virgin ears. ;-)

    ---
  • I concur. I live and work in KC, as well and have not hear anything about this event. The web site looks pretty shoddy, and what's with this remark at the bottom of the page?
    "
    ® LINUX is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries"
    Anyhow, I might stop by and check it out tomorrow and judging by the 'Speakers' section, there might be some decent material there (someone mentioned a beowulf cluster!).

    Unfortunately, due to the lack of promotion, not to mention a "LinuxFest sucks" story on Slashdot, I am having my doubts as to how great this will actually be.

    By the way, if anyone decides to have a Linux-centric event in the future and they're considering the use of any forms of the words "festival" and "linux" in the title, there better be some kegs there.. discussions about "Using Linux for teaching" don't quite qualify as festivals in my book.

    Oh well.. we'll see.
  • it's what we've come to. Support your local t-shirt manufacturer. You can wear a suit over it if you want to. I won't tell.

    --
  • This could be the first time something not a website gets slashdotted :)
  • Emmett on his best behavior? LOL I don't think so....you should've seen him at the Slashdot booth at LinuxWorld Expo in February...man he's hilarious. I wanna add my name to the petition for emmett to be a GIS regular!
  • Not that anyone's reading a thread this old.

    My company, Tuxtops, Inc. [tuxtops.com] (Laptops with Linux) was originally chatted up by Mr. Palmer about doing this show back in February at LinuxWorld Expo in New York.

    We took a "wait and see" attitude about it; we're a start up, yeah, but without the millions of dollars in VC to make taking a gamble worth it.

    We ultimately demurred on the show, because we've opted to concentrate our presence at the largest Linux shows -- more bang for the buck, so to speak. To see and talk to the largest group of Linux users.

    As Jason Haaz from PowerPPC, Inc. already noted, there are at least 20-30 Linux specific or Linux related tradeshows out there every year. I know, because our company gets solicited to attend them all the time. They're in places around the globe from Shanghai, China to Chicago, IL, USA.

    As far as show scheduling, I can't imagine that scheduling LinuxFest against, say, the annual Usenix conference (which is where I was last week) was a good idea.

    Anyway, as far as trade shows, we settled on three or maybe four tradeshows, as exhibitors: LinuxWorld Expo NY, LinuxWorld Expo San Jose in August, (Come see us there! We're adjacent to the Slashdot parlor. See our webpage for specific booth information.), and we'll also be exhibiting at Atlanta Linux Showcase in October.

    But, I also would like to say, that letting IDC or ZD lock up the "Linux tradeshow market" would definitely not be a good thing for "the Linux community" corporately.

    One of the reasons we're going to ALS is because it directly supports something other than a huge media conglomerate that gives very little back to the community.

  • flop? (Score:1)

    by Zurk ( 37028 )
    with PC Expo and other shows on the horizon, no wonder its a flop. also, whats the cost for a booth ? too high a price and no one will come. never heard of this show before today so..

  • NewTek was from Topeka. As crude as it looks now, the Video Toaster was cutting edge when it came out. I was in the Kansas City Amiga User's Group and worked at a store selling Amigas when Tim Jenison brought by the first DigiView prototype and the first "HAM" (hold and modify) format pictures. Later, the store (Brandsmart) installed some big-ass car stereos for various NewTek employees in some very expensive autos.

    Hi-tech in the Heartland.

  • I think that it's just to showcase the idiocy of us Kansans and Missourians. The fact that a show would flop so thoroughly is, I'm sure, extraordinarily odd. Perhaps if there was any promotion at all in other venues, this wouldn't have been necessary.

  • Being in St. Louis, I was quite excited to see a Linux event this close to me. However, the only way I knew it was happening was through the small ad they placed in Linux Journal.

    The actual seminar subjects seemed very oriented towards business types who wanted to learn something about Linux. The speaker schedule wasn't posted on the web site until the week or so before the show. I have to give Greg Palmer credit here. I e-mailed about the speaker schedule, he replied to me quickly about it, and he even sent another message when the schedule wasn't posted as planned.

    With the seminar descriptions, I didn't figure it was going to be worth it for me to go. However, I was planning on spending the weekend in KC anyway, and thought it might be nice to go to the exhibit portion. Well, the only thing the web site seemed to indicate about admission to the exhibit portion was that it was free with seminar registration. Well, I didn't want to pay the one-day seminar fee just to go see the exhibits on Saturday. Not seeing any of the attending vendors promoting the free "exhibits-only" passes that they usually do for trade shows, I figured I was out of luck and gave up.

    Since I was on the way to KC Friday night, I didn't see the info in this story that Emmett was going to be there on Saturday (along with the info that the exhibits would be free). Had I known this in advance, I would have attended on Saturday.

    Had this whole thing been better planned and promoted, it would have done a lot better. Several of us at work were interested in being able to attended a Linux show close to home, but the apparent disorganization and lack of useful (for us) seminar content made us decide against it.
  • So, because KPH stands for Kilometers Per Hour, there is no such thing as a Kilometer?

    "KPH" sounds like it might be a radio station's callsign (now that I think about it some more, it is the callsign of a maritime communications station on the West Coast), but it's definitely not an abbreviation for "kilometers per hour." That abbreviation, even here in the metric-impaired USA, is "km/h".

    _/_
    / v \
    (IIGS( Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull # to send mail)
    \_^_/

  • So... (Score:1)

    by Pike ( 52876 )
    I hear this thread is a flop eh?

    :-)

    -JD
  • We're planning on going and was just wondering how many others were. I hope it's not a flop...too much money for that.
  • Shit, thats all the more reason TO go. I hate stupid idiots who think that certain words should not be said in public.

    Take your puritan views and go back to the stone age. Don't try to censor what I can say and hear.

    Also, keep in mind that "Geeks in Space" is a totally different venue than a trade show, so I suspect that even emmett will be on his best behavior.

    Anyway, this was a pointless response to an even more pointless post (score 2? herm...)
  • I was at the show on Wednesday, giving a talk on the Linux Terminal Server Project (www.LTSP.org).
    I signed up for the talk over 2 months ago and although I was accepted as a speaker, the talk never showed up on the schedule. I emailed Greg Palmer (organizer) several times and he kept promising it would show up on the schedule in a few days but never did. I flew from Detroit to give the talk. The schedule posted at the hall didn't show my talk. I spoke with Greg about it, he added it to the schedule, printed it and posted the schedule outside the exhibit hall. An hour later I looked, and it was off the schedule again. He must have made more changes and didn't save the first change. Anyway, 4 people showed up to hear the talk, and 3 of them I already new. Other talks had similar attendance. <p>Redhat pulled out before the show started, Informix left after the first full day. They never got the registration system working. It cost me and my partner over $1200 to go there, and we achieved very little. I'd be very surprized to see a LinuxFest2001.
  • The Jacobin regime in France tried to implement metric time (I think they were the ones that tried to use it on a large scale, you can correct me if I am wrong it's been some time since I studied history). In any event it was so confusing to the people and it messed up scedulation so they were forced to switch back. It is an interesting idea thoe but I think it will never catch on.
  • I just went to the one in New York in Feburary, it was far from a flop. Best experience I have ever had (thanks to the Slashdot booth). We didn't want to leave.
    Is there another one coming up soon? Or are you talking about next years?

    Here's our webpage [n3.net] journal. Word from the wise, if you love free stuff, bring an extra hockey bag.
  • To be honest this is the first I have heard of it too...I don't even remember it being mentioned on Slashdot. Then again I might have just forgot due to the fact that I lve no where near Kansas
  • Next year same time...
  • Yes, any price is too high. Mark this as a troll if you will, but Windows 2000 is a joke. No one really uses it. They talk about it, but yet, nearly every "microsoftie" posts from a Linux or Windows 95/98/NT computer. They rant and rave how great "2000" is but they don't use it on a daily basis; note the threads on C#, in which all the karma fucks ^h^h^h^h^h hordes are Windows 95/98/NT or Linux programmers. Windows 2000 is a pathetic joke. I ask you dip shit moderator, are you reading this in a Windows 2000 compliant web browser? Sorry, Internet Explorer fails to count, it's included in the base product. Ouch to you. Regards
    Sorry, I couldn't resist! It was funny, or at least was to me...
  • Definitely poorly advertised. I'm in ICT as well, and I heard about it via a passing ref on Yahoo, and said bad words because had I known about it, I could have budgeted time and had work pay for it. I went up today, and stuck around to hear Emmett speak (Rob et. al.: You should try to get Emmett on GIS). However, in talking to a few folks there I hope they will do better advertising next year. I'd love to see a Linux event those of us in the Midwest could get to.
  • Jeesh, if you don't know what a FLOP is, then I can't help ya....

    What's a FLOP? what do you mean, what's a FLOP?

    Here in Colorado, we are happy whenever we have the chance to get a Mega-FLOP!

    So, Kansas should be happy with however many FLOPs that they can generate. I'm sure that a Kilo-FLOP would suite them just fine.

    I'm sure that all you high fa-loot'in folks in California can afford for your trade shows to be a Giga-FLOP--you folks don't know how good you have it!

    so, if your tradeshow is a FLOP, don't worry....

    ---
    Interested in the Colorado Lottery?
  • So, because KPH stands for Kilometers Per Hour, there is no such thing as a Kilometer?
    ---
    Interested in the Colorado Lottery?
  • is that what that was? I thought that I felt something, but I couldn't place it.

    Jeesh, if I hadn't saw your post I would have guessed that a gnat had landed on my chest...

    Thanks for the update.
    ---
    Interested in the Colorado Lottery?
  • The first I heard about it was a passing mention on my local LUG. It wasnt hyped at all, and the timing is pretty poor. Most of us work at a minimum until 5. And since this isnt really in Kansas City (its in Overland Park, about a 30 minute drive west of KC, tack on another 30 to 45 during rush hour) its almost imposible to make it during a weekday and remain employed or not scrap some vacation time. Even my company, which is very motivated to move to linux on just about everything, just couldnt spare us for something that, for all intents, looked to be a small unhyped show. I belive if some advertising had really happened, you would find the geeks coming out in drones. Believe it or not, KC is full of them. Having sprints headquarters does help get the geek population up, not to mention Atipa and a few others. Lets shoot for this again next year and just learn from our mistakes.

    ...and the geek shall inherit the earth...
  • Is there a central webpage where you can find information on upcoming tradeshows and conventions? I think it would be a great asset to our community and the computer community in general. Can anyone tell me if there is a site such as this. If not I am going to start one!
  • I'm right near there and I have never heard of this. Geez, if you want someone to show up then freaking advertise.

  • ...another translation (for "Fest" with a capital F) would be "party", "celebration" or "festival"? Although this seems to better fit the recent troll convention (especially mr. ventricle guy...:)

  • There is going to be another one in August in San Jose. I missed the one in Feb, but I attended the first two in San Jose. They completly rocked.
  • >Unlike the dotcommers getting laid off in Silicon Valley (including those who never had a real job in the first place), some of us folks in flyover country have to work for a living and can't go to trade shows on a weekday
    Well, us dotnetters in silicon valley who work for established companies have respectful employers, who wish to further their investment in us and pay us to go to things like these. Bitter much?
    >Elsewhere in the Heart of America(tm), MLUG (http://mlug.missouri.edu/) has held some pretty successful Linux/OpenSource events in Columbia, MO. They had Eric Raymond as a keynote speaker last year...
    I guess you missed the fact that ESR is/was at linuxfest. Or that Emmett is there. This flop is not a result of the community of KC not being into it, it's the result of the organizer being a moron. The one man show behind this has always been out for money and nothing else, and knows little, if anything, about what he is doing. Hat's off to KULUA (Kansas Unix & Linux Users Association) and KCLUG for attempting to salvage this thing. As a recent transplant from KC, It's good to see someone try, I just wish it would have been someone more competent.
    -sqweak

  • After reading over the other posts, it is obvious that advertising for this event was not planned properly (or possibly not at all??). They may not have the advertising budget of ZDnet or IDG (Comdex, LinuxWorld) but these type of events can't afford to overlook advertising.

    While very disappointed that I had not heard of this event until it was too late, I was not that surprised that the Wichita area had not heard much about it. I have spent a few days in KC over the last few weeks and had heard nothing on the radio up there either.

    If they can't justify the expense for radio advertisements, they should have at least looked into junk^H^H^H^H err, I mean some type of mailings. I am sure that they could buy lists of addresses for IT people in Midwest.

    I resent the 'Farm Equipment' post. Had they properly advertised, it seems that they could have reached many more people. Sure, a couple farmers may hear the ads but a lot of IT people including those who don't yet take Linux seriously or (gasp) may have not had any exposure to Linux may actually have been interested in this event!

  • What's a flop? ;)

    I'm not out in Kansas, but in the West Coast you have way too many people who talk like they know what the hell they're talking about! You can hear actor here in LA using buzzwords like modem, net, kilobyte, and megabyte. Then, you find them at the local PC store trying to sell you stuff. *grin*

    kicking some CAD is a good thing [cadfu.com]
  • actually screw ball I was making a pun toward Floating Operations Per Second, and was correctly corrected. (next time, read the smiley face) ;*]

    kicking some CAD is a good thing [cadfu.com]
  • Our (small) company had two people at the show (one of them the owner). They called early in the show telling us that Informix and RedHat had both pulled out. They were able to setup in their booths, and even pulled the van right onto the floor (if you saw Tux on the Unique Systems van, drop me an email!) It's pretty dissapointing to see two rather large companies back out at the last moment (although we got a great deal on booth space.) The latest word Friday was that foot traffic was slow and the organizers might not even open it up on Saturday.
    From other posts, it sounds like there was very little planning and almost no advertising. Hopefully, future events in this area will go better.
  • ...about the only high tech thang i remember coming from kansas.
  • Overland Park International Trade Center right
    off Metcalf and like 115th or something...

    :)
  • My issue wasn't with you supporting the community by posting it or by speaking there to support the community, I think thats great and I commend you for it. The thing is though, would the story have made it to Slashdot if you werent speaking there? How many other LUG related events go unnoticed even though they could be pretty major events drawing alot of people.

    Well, I'm here. I'm part of this thing. I happen to work at Slashdot. Would it have been posted if I weren't here? Maybe, it all depends. I would like to think it would have been posted. On the other hand, if all I saw was a submission in the bin that said, 'Don't go to this thing, it sucks,' I would probably delete it in seconds.

    The problem is that this isn't, and never was, a LUG related event. Ever. LUG members volunteered early and often to no response. I think that I would be way into mentioning a big cool LUG event in the Quickies. Bruce is wrong, by the way. We don't even think about advertisers when we create and/or choose content for Slashdot. Getting something on Slashdot varies with the relevance of the story, the timing of the story, the quality of the link, the phase of the moon, and the cost of tea in China.

    Maybe posting this story was irrelevant and selfish, I don't know. It's up to the reader to figure that stuff out on their own. I just wanted to say, 'Hey, I'm here, I'm having a party, wanna come?' I think what we're talking about here is basically a difference of scale. If HVLUG (The Hill Valley Linux User Group) was having a Linux installfest at Lou's Cafe across the street from the Clock Tower, I don't think it would be Slashdot-worthy, because you would be talking about people running Linux, you'd want to talk to people who want to try Linux. We're talking about a show with sixty-thousand square feet of sell space being torn to shreds because of a lack of proper planning and infrastructure.

    The saddest part about the entire ordeal is that I can't blame anyone but Greg Palmer. When you bring the entire weight of the show on one person, the fame and glory or the fire and brimstone is going to come down on them. This is really sad because I think in a really big way, Greg gets it. I think Greg really did the best he could with what he thought he had. Greg's idea of a big midwestern Linux tradeshow was a good one, and everyone in this community knows it. It all comes down to moving from theory to implementation and finally, proof-of-concept. One day, someone, whether it's a big-ass Expo like IDG's, or just a big-ass LUG conglomerate, is going to create an incredible show here, and it could happen as early as next year.

    The power of the open source community is the ability to move, change and adapt. The next show to happen here could be a raging success, and the show planners would have to take a moment to look at Greg Palmer, and see how much they've learned from his mistakes. I think the community sees the forest for the trees, and knows better than to call this show a failure. We don't know failure, only experiments that failed to produce expected results on a hypothesis.

    --Emmett

    Oh, by the way, I talk at 12pm tomorrow.

  • Why is it that this event gets attention on Slashdot while others get rejected or looked over? Is it because a member of the Slashdot staff is giving a keynote at the event? That sounds really unprofessional to me.

    Maybe because I don't want people to walk out of this show saying 'Linux sucks.' I've been the only community presence at this show all week, and that's the way it is.

    What's unprofessional about it? I'm not making money from my appearance; The conference itself didn't even get me out there. It was the local LUG that flew me out there and let me sleep on a LUG member's couch for the week.

    I'm giving a keynote because I'm trying to help rescue this conference almost single-handedly with the help of the LUG communities. The members of KULUA alone have put well over a thousand dollars worth of time, energy and effort trying to make this a great show. The LUGs were not involved in the planning or infrastructure of this event, and hooboy, does it show. They were not invited to help. As a matter of fact, when the LUG decided to have me out, I called the conference organizer, and said, 'Look. I'll do a keynote. But you let all the LUG members in free because they got me here.' Originally, the conference organizer wanted LUG members to pay for a booth, a network drop, and electricity. Oh, and they were supposed to buy show passes, too.

    I posted this for the benefit of the LUG, not the benefit of the show itself. The members of the LUG have busted their asses trying to fix this show for the past three days, and we have made a bit of difference. At this point, the show is free, the hall is rented, and goddamnit, I'm going to have a little party. Join me if you like. I'm sure a lot of people would rather go to a cool party with fun friends than stay home and bitch about the perceived unprofessionalism of the Slashdot staff.

    I've gotten a lot of questions, like, 'Hey, Emmett, the show is probably going to be dead tomorrow. Why don't you skip the keynote, hang out in Lawrence and look at the pretty girls, instead?' The answer is, the local community has been let down by this show more than you can possibly imagine. This was the first serious Linux event in a Microsoft town, and they were let down severely. Exhibitors may have packed their bags and gome home because of cost issues and lack of foot traffic. I don't have to concern myself with a bottom line. I'm doing my keynote because I said I would, and I will be damned if you think I'm going to let down the community by not showing up for a keynote.

    We've got plenty of free soda left, and I've got some Slashdot swag to give away. Show up. Have fun. Enjoy yourselves. Bitch at me in person about Slashdot, if you want. Just come down, shoot some Nerf guns and enjoy the rest of the show. I'll try to make it worth your while.

    --Emmett


  • Having attended Emmett's keynote, I was very pleased that he was able to make it. By the time Saturday rolled around, all the major vendors had already left (no audience for their wares) and the floor had shrunk as the partitions on the floor were moved around the "stage" area (a table with network connection).

    Had Emmett not be able to attend to make his address (which was very appropriate for the people that did show up) there would have been nothing going on Saturday. There were no vendors (KCLUG was still there and I think one other group), no other speakers, and we would have ended up with a bunch of geeks staring at each other uncomfortably wondering what to do next.

    On another note, I'd disappointed that someone would attempt to cast a bad light on Emmett attending this event and this event getting /. coverage as a result as somehow being unprofessional. This couldn't be further from the truth. No, your average weekly/monthly/whateverly LUG meeting isn't going to get /. coverage, there are simply too many events around the country. However, when a /. staffer travels to an event (at the invitation of a local LUG [KULUA] who, incidentally, footed the entire bill for the trip) then that's newsworthy. That deserves some mention here simply because a /. staffer is involved.

  • I don't think we here in Wichita knew anything about this thing. I know the ACLUG (Wichita-based LUG) would have promoted it and caravan-ed on over there....Maybe better advertising would help....Hey, KC is pretty big IT-wise....
  • Any shows ever come to Texas?
    I know little about linux but am eager to learn... Does anyone know of any resources in Texas or where I might look for such resources?
  • NTLUG as well... (I'm in Dallas.)

    Thanks for the help though! :)

    -heidiporn

    (Your name sounds quite familiar, btw, but I s'pose it's fairly common...)

  • Prehaps consumption of free beer has caused Emmett's speech to become free ...

    Joe Wells
  • A flop is a 'Bad Thing', it means that there weren't many people there, and was generally boring.
    (Note: I'm not talking about LinuxFest, just in generalities)

    --
  • I have pictures!
    http://louissypher.yi.org

  • Well, I was able to attend the LinuxFest on Wednesday afternoon. I must say the excitement for me was meeting 'emmett' (you're welcome!) and getting an offical 'Tux' penguin. What else was going on you ask? Absolutly nothing! They didn't even have the registration system setup.... Well, I was very disappointed with the turnout, but at least I didn't pay to attend. Anyway, I've been using Linux since '94 and I was really disappointed in the lack of support shown by attendance. Anyway, hopefully, we will have another conference in KC and, hopefully, it won't be a flop. [Lot of Hopes in there] P.S. emmett owes me a shirt ('Will' doesn't want them all! :)
  • Congratulations. This is the lamest post in the history of mankind. Granted, for about 5990 years (roughly) after the agricultural revolution, no one posted anything, unless you count tacking papyrus to someone's door. However, over the past 10-20 years, we've been trying to make up for lost time, big time, so for you to post the lamest thing ever is actually quite an accomplishment.

    In conclusion, I believe the guy was asking "What's a flop", meaning "What is the flop you're referring to," because in the wording of the post, it was a little ambiguous whether the flop in queston was the convention itself or something being showcased at the convention.

    Go to hell.
  • That's right. You were trying to make a lame pun, and you fucked even that up.

    I pity you.
  • Her name is Star? giggle giggle
    I bet she likes Johnny Depp.
    --
  • However, you are sober enough to recognize what can happen to your karma if you don't post AC... I can't believe Mods decided to waste points on you. Sheesh.

    On the topic, I didn't even know about the Linux conference in San Jose. Since I'm close enough to that one, I think I may show up at the next... I just can't see Kansas as a big magnet for Linux. I'm sure there are users there, I just don't think computers when I think KC. On the other hand, maybe people should start setting up the First Amendment Defense BBQ while they're there?
  • Its easy!

    There are 100 Brubecks in a
    day.
    Since there are 24x60 minutes in a day
    or1440 minutes: each 100th of a day contains
    14.4 minutes .[or 15 min approx.]
    Therefore there are 50 Brubecks at noon,
    25 Brubecks at 6 AM & 75 Brubecks at 6PM
    or 1800 hrs like they do in Europe.
    Further each hour adds a little over
    4 Brubecks so 8PM IS 75 + 2x4 or
    84 Brunecks.

    ^ ^ ^

    One of the more remarkable aspects
    of dental caries is that the
    trauma to the cheek tissue is
    signifigantly greater than
    the turgor elaborated about the
    damaged roots in many patients.
    Sounds like radiation damage
    caused by a MICROWAVE LASER.

  • In addition to my previous post:
    We figured out that the biggest problem with the show was lack of advertising. Perhaps this is what happened to LinuxFest as well. I for one, have not heard of this show before this post.
  • Not to be a pessimist, but I know because I run the technical stuff for shows relatively often. Not all shows turn out as expected. Just recently I did a great show for a local school celebrating ten years of existence, and only about 50 people showed up. Hundreds were expected. This was disappointing.

    So, the moral is, don't judge a book by its cover and if you can go out to this show, by all means do. Think of all the work people put into these things.

  • First I've heard (Score:3)

    by TMLink ( 177732 ) on Friday June 23, 2000 @07:12PM (#979529)
    I live and work in the KC area, and this is the first I've even heard about this event...that in itself my be a reason it's a flop. I'm sure that there's plenty of interrest here, but it wasn't promoted well (at all?), especially twords the people that would benefit most from it. It's hard to get a good turnout when nobody knows about it...
  • .. the Trenton computer show in NJ. They moved it out of Trenton to a smaller place and claim the show is bigger. The last time I went, the only words out of everyones mouth was that it really sucks and went down hill. But, every single year they keep saying that its better and better and bigger. Hey, are there any events in the Michigan area ? I would attend if there are. What about Linux user groups ?
  • heh. but it IS in use!

    I have a friend who developped his own metric clock. It's totally useless, but he can always tell ya how many 100th of a day are left before midnight (non-metric).

    way to go Tom.

    "Producing satire is kind of hopeless because of the literacy rate of the American public."
  • Before we get all involved in talking about Kilometers per Hour, we'd better determine what the metric equivalent for 'hour' is. The standard Hour is 1/24th of a day, and since we know that anything not decimal is bad and must be eliminated....

    What is the metric equivalent. And why isn't it in common use?
  • That was a long, long time ago, though.

    I think I may have been the last person on earth to wire up a Kansas City Interface, and that was in 1987. I had this SWTP6800 computer, you see, and only had software for it on cassette tape...

    never mind.
  • Yes, any price is too high. Mark this as a troll if you will, but linux is a joke. No one really uses it. They talk about it, but yet, nearly every "slashdotter" posts from a Windows computer. They rant and rave how great "linux" is but they don't use it on a daily basis; note the threads on C#, in which all the karma fucks ^h^h^h^h^h hordes are Windows programmers. Linux is a pathetic joke. I ask you dip shit moderator, are you reading this in a gpl web browser? Sorry, Netscape fails to count. Ouch to you.

    Regards,

    Tim

  • Well, I'm a Network Systems Coordinator (Fancy title for Jack-Of-All-Trades/Highest Geek not in pure management) at CMSU in Warrensburg.
    I read slashdot, freshmeat, and linux.com with a frequency that borders on religous fanaticism.
    I work full time on Network Administration, System Administration of Linux clusters, and in-house development of various linux-based apps.

    I've never heard of this thing.
    We've got 4 other people who work directly for me on Linux development, a CS department who teaches on Linux workstations, a local LUG, numerous linux devotees, and lots more wannabees, I listen to a KC radio station daily, and during the day via the net, and not one said BOO about this thing.

    I will concientously copy this to the organizer.
    I have to say...had we known, I could be fairly certain of at least 2 fully paid attendees, and probably a number of others for 1-2 days, just from my department alone. At least three vendors who normally ask if I'm going to this or that expo/trade show/etc have spoken to me in the last few weeks, and nothing from them either.

    This can not possibly have been publicized worth diddly. Sorry, hope you didn't lose your butt, but next year, better tell someone about it.

  • When and where is Emmett's talk? If you don't bill it, they won't come...
  • All I can say is, at least the hour I took out of my day to browse and talk to the the few vendors wasn't wasted...at least I got a couple of free t-shirts....

  • Does this mean Emmett's free as in speech, not as in beer?

  • Does someone can somebody post the link for the Kansas City API? I couldn't find it... TIA
  • Please reconsider.
  • Poopie? POOPIE? Ahhhuuhhh,huuhh He said "Poopie" on a Friday night, no less!!
  • Instead of flaming us over here (Bay Area) for something which we have even no connection with (A Linux tradeshow in Kansas city, in case you weren't able to read) I could possibly see you using that aggression and anger toward something more useful, like rewriting a kernel, or taking E. Wood Speed-reading, or something by which mankind might benefit from.

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