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Adobe Joins Linux Foundation, Develops AIR For Linux

Posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Mar 31, 2008 09:17 AM
from the do-we-trust-these-guys-yet dept.
2muchcoffeeman writes "Adobe announced Monday that it is joining the Linux Foundation and alpha-released a Linux version of its new Adobe Internet Runtime environment, which allows Internet-enabled applications to run on Windows and Mac OS desktops, for Linux. According to Adobe, the alpha version lacks some key features that will be available in the final product and only runs with Sun Java, not GNU Java. Adobe also released an alpha of Flex Builder for Linux Monday."
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  • by AioKits (1235070) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:18AM (#22920768) Homepage
    ... "You think that's AIR you're breathing?"
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 31 2008, @09:21AM (#22920788)
    Not meant as a troll, but it is hard to find an objective explanation of how AIR is going to fill a huge need or bake better bread.
  • I once saw an elephant mother grieving over her dead calf. The calf had died due to thirst on the savannah and though the herd moved on to newer pastures, the mother elephant stayed with the dead calf until the mother too died of thirst, and I suppose sadness.

    It was a terrible thing to watch. The emotional stress that the mother elephant went through was so tangible and human-like that I was really moved.

    Kinda like I am with Adobe fans.
  • by Per Abrahamsen (1397) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:25AM (#22920830) Homepage
    What is GNU Java? GCJ?

    • That's the one! by Gazzonyx (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @09:42AM
      • Re:That's the one! by Octorian (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @09:54AM
        • Sun/GCJ by mgkimsal2 (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @10:56AM
    • Re:GNU Java? by Constantine XVI (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @10:01AM
    • Re:GNU Java? by TheRaven64 (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @10:48AM
  • So ... any known application that uses this?

    I had to look it up on google to fid out what exactly adobe AIR is. How big is this?

  • by calebt3 (1098475) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:30AM (#22920884)
    64-bit Flash!
  • by lixee (863589) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:30AM (#22920886)
    Does that mean there is a chance I can finally watch YouTube video on my Ubuntu-powered iMac G4?
  • What is AIR (Score:5, Informative)

    by WPIDalamar (122110) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:30AM (#22920888) Homepage
    For those of you who don't drink the Adobe kool-aid, a quick explanation.

    AIR is a desktop runtime environment. You can run either Html/Javascript or Flash based applications inside it. AIR provides a few interesting features beyond HTML/Flash including:

    1) File I/O
    2) SQLLite Support
    3) An integrated web browser (based on WebKit) that you can use inside applications.
    4) A fairly good distribution mechanism
    5) Desktop integration (OSX Dock icons, Win32 systray support, etc.)

    It's a great technology if you're using Adobe products to make web applications and you want to branch into making desktop apps.

    It's a great technology if you want to make a desktop app that may later become a web app and you want to share most of the code.

    It's a horrible technology if you're a desktop developer who's looking for a different technology.

    It's way more write-once run-anywhere than Java ever was.

    It does not pick up the system's native UI widgets.

    • Re:What is AIR by daveime (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @09:40AM
      • Re:What is AIR by l-ascorbic (Score:3) Monday March 31 2008, @09:47AM
        • Re:What is AIR by daveime (Score:1) Monday March 31 2008, @09:54AM
          • Re:What is AIR (Score:4, Insightful)

            by anomalous cohort (704239) on Monday March 31 2008, @10:48AM (#22921784) Homepage Journal

            The notion of trust is nothing new. The basic question comes down to this, do you trust the code (or coders for the code that) you are about to run or not? If you don't, then don't run the code. If you do, then go ahead and run the code.

            That question may be easy to ask but not so easy to answer. Maybe you trust the organization but there could be inadvertent security vulnerabilities in the code. Or maybe you don't know much about the organization who authored or published the application. How do you decide whether or not to trust the application?

            In theory, open source mitigates this trust issue because you can study the code yourself. In practice, it's not so easy. First of all, access to the source code is immaterial to people who are not coders themselves. Second, it would take a lot of time and mind to study the code for a large project. Sure, any competent programmer could study and verify for his or herself that my open source project [sourceforge.net] can be trusted because it really isn't all that big. How can you be sure that Firefox [mozilla.com] doesn't have any malicious code in it?

            One approach to this problem is to run programs in what is called a sandbox [wikipedia.org]. What that means is that the program isn't written in what is called the native "machine" code. Rather, it is written in a code for a virtual machine [wikipedia.org]. Every time that code makes an API call, the virtual machine checks to see if it is permitted from a security perspective. Applications that run in a sandbox don't get a lot of permissions. It is OK to run an application that you don't completely trust within the sandbox because the virtual machine is going to deny any requests that could compromise or take advantage of your system anyway.

            That is why the complaint about ActiveX. Both ActiveX controls and Java applets run in a web browser. The Java applet has to run in the sandbox (unless it is signed but it is beyond the scope of this post to introduce PKI and X.509 certificates) but the ActiveX control never runs in a sandbox.

            Later iterations of this sandbox concept allow the user more control over what the program can and cannot do. In .NET, this is called Code Access Security and in J2SE, this is called Java Security Policy. Before running an application, the user can specify what API calls that the application can and cannot call. The problem here is that this specification is not easy to tweak for mere mortals. When you just double click the application icon, you are running the application with whatever policy that the publishing company specified. So, you are back to trusting that company since there is nothing that keeps them from specifying a policy that is wide open.

            I have no experience in AIR so I could not tell you whether or not that virtual machine implements any kind of policy control. Perhaps someone that is knowledgeable about AIR would care to clarify here?

        • Re:What is AIR by AJWM (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @01:27PM
      • Re:What is AIR by Fred_A (Score:1) Monday March 31 2008, @09:51AM
    • Re:What is AIR by SanityInAnarchy (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @11:43AM
    • Re:What is AIR by STrinity (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @03:35PM
    • Re:What is AIR by jhol13 (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @05:50PM
    • Re:The real question about What is AIR by WPIDalamar (Score:2) Monday March 31 2008, @02:06PM
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Excellent news. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by l-ascorbic (200822) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:31AM (#22920894) Homepage
    This is excellent news. We've never had the resources to port our panoramic image stitcher [clevr.com] to Linux, but as it's now an AIR app, this means we get it for free. I can finally use my own app on Ubuntu! Anyone who hasn't taken a look at AIR yet should seriously check it out, especially now that Flex is open source [adobe.com].
  • Adobe Loses to SWF (Score:5, Informative)

    by Doc Ruby (173196) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:43AM (#22921006) Homepage Journal
    AIR doesn't come preinstalled, so it's just another piece of software people can choose to use, not an existing platform to target with content.

    Meanwhile, the GNU implementation of SWF is GNASH [gnashdev.org], which just released a new version. GNASH is also not preinstalled, but it's in some ways superior to Adobe's Flash, while remaining compatible (with practically all features found in the wild, and adding the rest) - and free, including not adding DRM you don't want. And GNASH was announced to be part of the new KDE, so it will in fact be preinstalled on lots of Linux machines.
  • by DeadDecoy (877617) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:48AM (#22921074)
    I kinda wish adobe would make a decent pdf viewer for linux, or at least make the pdf format open ... The current viewer they have sucks as I have to keep agreeing to the license every time I open a document up and each document is opened in an opera-esque parent application (not individually). It's not really pleasant to use the other linux viewers either, as you can't do selection in a dual column document all that well. The flash support for linux, on the other hand seems pretty functional and having vibrant webapps isn't all that critical to me. I just wish Adobe would do a decent job at supporting their core applications on linux, e.g. Acrobat and Photoshop, but maybe that's just me. : /
  • by 2muchcoffeeman (573484) on Monday March 31 2008, @10:09AM (#22921280) Journal
    Here's the final paragraph of the PC World version of the story [yahoo.com]. It points out something else I found interesting ...

    Although the Linux Foundation hailed Adobe's arrival as "a natural extension of its commitment to open standards and open source," that commitment stops short of publishing source code for the Linux version of Air. Adobe's end-user license for the code explicitly forbids any attempt to "reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the software."

    In other words, "We'll let you play in our sandbox, but don't try to figure out how we built our sandbox so you can build your own sandbox that looks just like our sandbox."

  • by nguy (1207026) on Monday March 31 2008, @10:14AM (#22921360)
    Adobe doesn't know how to make a good UI; just look at Adobe Acrobat Reader or Photoshop. Historically, their Linux versions are even worse than their Windows and Mac software.

    In order to get a decent version of AIR for Linux, we'll have to write an open source version ourselves.
  • by gzipped_tar (1151931) on Monday March 31 2008, @10:38AM (#22921654) Journal
    > "Adobe also released an alpha of Flex Builder for Linux Monday."
    Is GNU gonna be sued because of the name "flex"?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 31 2008, @11:02AM (#22921978)
    As someone who in the last 6 weeks has been currently developing a flex app for both AIR and the web... dont get too excited.
    I am finding the Flex3 framework to be buggy as hell.

    * I have been having constant crashes from Flex Builder (It is built on eclipse)
    * The ui components are coded like dogshit. (i ended up coding custom elements in flash which are the tenth of the size, and work as intended)
    * Some documented features dont work.
    * I have spent alot of time figuring out work arounds/undocumented features.

    sorry for the rant.. but the claim that it is easy to develop flex apps is bullshit.
    I have been using flash since it was called FutureSplash, so after over 10 years of day in day out
    developing and making bread with this tech, I think I can speak with some authority.

    It seems to me that Adobe is glorifying their steps into open source.
    I just have a funny feeling that it is not as good willed, as intended,
    but just as a way to get their shit coded/fixed for free,then reimplemented
    in their closed source upscale/addon technologies.

    Which I might add, allows adobe to compete directly against the very developers
    that buy into their software.

  • by cyberjessy (444290) on Monday March 31 2008, @11:05AM (#22921994) Homepage
    From the SWF and FLV File Format Specification and License [adobe.com]
    -- This license does not permit the usage of the specification to create software which supports SWF file playback.

    That's pathetic. Adobe is explicitly trying to control the _format_, while trying to convince (and confuse) people by releasing the runtime and SDK as open source. Which means they still retail all the control of closed-source software, without many people even being aware of it. Once (hopefully not) AIR or Flash becomes a widely accepted platform for applications, Adobe can easily ask people to pay up or do whatever.

    These days, I get frustrated by the number of people who mention that Adobe is a major supported of open source, and get excited about it. Java may suck, but it sure is not a lock in.
  • by TheDarkener (198348) on Monday March 31 2008, @11:36AM (#22922310)
    Adobe seems to want to jump on the OSS bandwagon, which might make a lot of people smile... although, ....

    - Flash isn't OSS

    - The Linux Flash binary-only plugin is still WAY behind the Windows version in quality and stability (remember how long we had to wait for Flash 9.x on Linux??)

    - Shockwave Director isn't OSS (and isn't even ported to Linux in a binary-only format, despite the 29511 [petitiononline.com] signatures in the online petition that's been going on forever). Not a peep from Adobe on if this will ever even happen, even though revisions are still being made and it being widely used

    - No intention of porting Flash to x86-64 platforms, on Linux -or- Windows (at least AFAIK)

    - Just in my experience alone, COUNTLESS other buggy applications (like the other week, installing a version of Acrobat with a .0 known bug that plainly doesn't launch when executed without a fix from their website)

    I agree Adobe has a LOT of momentum behind them with the Internet community. With this, however, comes great responsibility. If they want to play in the OSS playground, I think they need to share all of their toys like the others do.
  • Glad to see Adobe has their priorities strait.
  • by vsync64 (155958) <vsync@quadium.net> on Monday March 31 2008, @12:19PM (#22922834) Homepage
    For Linux, or for RedHat on x86? Sad to see even Slashdot has fallen to the low of just pasting press releases instead of questioning these nonsensical claims.
  • by flahwho (1243110) on Monday March 31 2008, @12:22PM (#22922866)
    you're no good, missunderstood, AIR.
  • by dFaust (546790) on Monday March 31 2008, @12:37PM (#22923020)
    To be clear, this is only related to the SDK and NOT the runtime. More specifically, it's related to the debugger (ADT) and it's listed as a "known issue", which seems to imply that it's something they're looking to fix by the time it's released.
  • by suck_burners_rice (1258684) on Monday March 31 2008, @12:49PM (#22923140)
    This is probably a test, and based on how many will use this AIR, they may decide to (or decide against) releasing other Adobe products for Linux.
  • - i'm tired of resetting my system's date/time back to the Dot-Bomb era! :-)
  • by STrinity (723872) on Monday March 31 2008, @03:30PM (#22924604) Homepage
    April Fools is tomorrow.
  • by Mr.Ned (79679) on Monday March 31 2008, @03:36PM (#22924676)
    I see no source code. They're not joining the free software community, they're selling to it.
  • by immerohnegott (949338) on Monday March 31 2008, @04:56PM (#22925374)
    Call it a pipe dream, but could this (a while down the road of course) mean we'll be seeing some ports of commercial Adobe apps for Linux?
  • Hello there,

    I've just posted a review and a comment at my site [efeitodoppler.org] (translation [google.com]) where I point that Adobe makes an amateur mistake, by installing all AIR files as the user who launched the installer, despite the fact that it asks for root access via gksu (a graphic sudo replacement). This makes the user owner of the files "AIR root", letting him able to compromise AIR Apps to all users of the system (either voluntarily or by a virus for example). This goes against all security policies I've ever seen. System wide programs must be read only to every one, except for root, which is a user that "is just meant not to be used".

    I also pointed at my site to at least two packaging mistakes: broken dependencies and garbage after uninstall.

    I wonder: why in hell they have to make that annoying Windows-like installer, more vulnerable to this sort of error, than simply give a package and a software repository? Or at least give direct access to a "traditional" RPM or Debian package... Doesn't they know the KISS rule?

    Hope this sort of stuff does not happen when it comes to be final.

  • by MT628496 (959515) on Monday March 31 2008, @09:26AM (#22920840)
    Yea, they really dropped the ball on coreutils, huh?
  • Your "Linux License" may never see fruitation - Thorvalds has said he doesn't foresee the need to move on to Linux 2.8 or 3.0
  • Hey buddy, wanna buy some...air?

    I'm not selling the bottle, just what's in it!

  • Ok, who the hell let Tom Cruise near an Ubuntu live cd?
  • Try it this way: Most projects produce terrible code. That'ld be correct. The license is an insignificant contribution...and I can't even tell in which direction, so it may not matter at all.

    I think that I tend to produce very good code...but it takes me a long time compared to many others. Possibly there's a tradeoff here.

    The nice thing about FOSS projects is that it lets you get SOMETHING out there fast, and then if there's a need, it will be continually improved. I do believe that commercially sponsored projects can develop large applications to a decent level of reliability more quickly. For this purpose ANY FOSS license will work....any that's accepted by the community, and I believe that GPL3 readily qualifies here. It may well be, however, that GPL3 projects are less likely to attract commercial sponsors. OK. They aren't allowed to fork the code into a closed tree. That makes it less attractive to them. But more attractive to me.

    Over time I believe that the FOSS projects will provide the higher quality code that fit better with the need of both the developers and the end-users. This doesn't mean that it will happen as quickly with FOSS code as it would with commercial code. But it will be more usable, and more tailored to the "customers" desires. (And, naturally, also more tailored to the desires of the developers.) Over time.

    Anecdotally the use of MOST FOSS licenses is increasing. (Not all. Artistic seems on the decline, as does the GNAT variant of the GPL. I'd say the same about the Eiffel variant, but it never was popular enough to estimate. And about most I don't have even enough anecdotal evidence to make a guess.)

    P.S.: I *do* count gcc. That may have been a hostile fork, as you say, but it was one specifically allowed by the license. I also count X Window, for the same reason. That's a part of how FOSS operates.

  • 6 replies beneath your current threshold.